the fact that teachers are now the willie horton, the fact that toni morrison is the new willie hortoncampaign. anyone who has been sitting on the fence or think they don't know how to weigh in, you know what this is. we've seen this before. the only question is will it continue to work? >> to your point, dana williams wrote this, she said it's more than a dog whistle. it's evidence of how petrified this nation is of its past, especially when that past challenges american myths of freedom and justice for all. do you think fear plays a role in the pushback against teaching the truth about slavery? >> i think there's fear at different levels. let's be honest, we have not yet fully grappled with our histories of enslavement, nor have we grappled with our histories of genocide. this is just not something that has often been taught at school. most of this controversy is about a couple books here and there. to hear some of the critics-- the way they talk about it it will lead parents to think that every day we're dealing with this past. in fact, we don't deal with it as much as we should. th

reluctant because bush senior in the run against due caucus 1988, the very famous race baiting willy horton appalled. found this was unacceptable and so he wouldn't take the initial jobs that were offered. stayed in the army and eventually bush made him chairman of the joint chiefs and powell accepted and they had quite a close relationship but that initial, he wasn't going to play ball with even a president who had played the willy horton card in a very ugly political race baiting way. >> yeah. it was an awful ad, an awful time for those of us old enough to remember that. another interesting part of your s interview with him is this comment of this characterization of him as a reluctant warrior. here it is. >> reluctant warrior. whatever that is asked of me, i said it. true. i am a reluctant warrior. >> yeah. >> i don't like wars. i don't want to be a warrior but remember the other thing that is well-known about me and that is we go to a war and i will do everything i can to beat the crap out of somebody and win it. >> maybe the most complicated part bob of his legacy is that the cover tha

but that initial -- he wasn't going to play ball with even a president who had played the willie hortonical race-baiting way. >> it was an awful ad. it was an awful time for those of us old enough to remember that. another interesting part of your interview, though, with him was this comment he made about this characterization of him as a reluctant warrior. here it is. >> the reluctant warrior. whenever that is asked of me, i said true. i am a reluctant warrior. >> yeah? >> i don't like wars. i don't like to be a warrior. but remember the other thing that is well known about me. and that is we go to war and i will do everything i can to beat the crap out of somebody, and win it. >> maybe the most complicated part, bob, of his legacy is the cover that he gave for the 2003 invasion of iraq. how did he reckon with that over the years? >> well, he reckoned with it in a very honorable way, said it was a mistake, that it's a blot on his record and he accepts responsibility for it and when looking back at the iraq war his instinct was that it wasn't necessary, and he concluded that he did not