president speak to mubarak in addition to the fact that the decision was made to send an emissary, frank wisner, to try to manage a transition. and, again, when you look at the debates, you can imagine that the debates between those who were saying it's not oem the strategic interests some of our friends in the region that are going to be highly unsettled if it looks like you're walking away from a friend of 30 years, but also there is the question of all right, what's going to replace him? and what is the -- what's the reality about trying to manage the transition? and, frankly, to take the point that steve made earlier, we're not the ones who are driving this. we're not ones who are creating this. we're not the people that put the two million people in the street. how much influence do we have? and what's the best way to try to exercise it? and, you know, there was a conversation that president had with mubarak that can only be described as a dialogue of the deaf because the president was saying to mubarak, you know, you're a child abuser. you're a patriot. you've sought to do a great deal fo

fact, if you want to go deeper with this, we can speculate that the message that ambassador frank wisner gave to mr. mubarak on his visit there on february 5th was not the message we were hearing, the american administration was presenting and imdiate change now but, in fact, the message that he told reporters afterwards which is in order for an ordinarily transition to take place, mr. mubarak needs to stay in power to oversee that transition until september, probably so that an outcome like we saw in the recent elections doesn't transpire. so this point, the point here is there is a dilemma for the united states right now, right? as witnessed by the recent ngo controversy. there also has to be a recognition that the u.s. has decreased influence, not only in egypt but across the region. that an authoritarian states like mr. mubarak's and king abdullah's and so on which don't allow citizens to have significant voice in politics and policy and align with the united states and heavily dependent on u.s. foreign political and diplomatic support, that the u.s. has much greater influence in tho

president speak to mubarak, in addition to the fact that a decision was made to send an emissary, frank wisner, to try to manage the transition. and again when you look at the debates, you can imagine the debates between those who are saying it's not only the strategic interest of some of our friends in the region who are going to be highly unsettled, it looks like you're walking away from a friend of 30 years, but also there's the question of all right, what's going to replace them? and what is, what's the reality about trying to manage the transition. and, frankly, to take the point that steve made earlier, we are not the ones were driving this. we are not the ones, we are not the people, too many people in the streets. the best way to try to exercise it. there was a conversation that the president had with mubarak that can only be described as a dialogue of the deaf, because the president was saying to mubarak, you know, you were a child of egypt, a patriot, you have sought to do a great deal for your country. and now the greatest thing you can do for your country is to help to manage that

fact, we want to go even deeper with this, we can speculate that the message that ambassador frank wisner gave mr. mubarak was not the message that we were hearing the american administration presenting, which was immediate change now, but in order for an orderly transition to take place, mr. barrett is to stay in power to over -- mr. mubarak is to stay in power to oversee the transition. this is really a dilemma for the united states as witnessed by the present ngo controversy and so on. there also has to be recognition that the u.s. has decrease to influence, not only in egypt, but across the region. an authoritarian state which does not allow citizens to have significant voice in politics and policy and which are allied with the united states and heavily dependent on u.s. foreign political and diplomatic support, the u.s.' has much greater influence than in government based on the will of the people. this gets to the religious freedom directly. this is more of a question, really. it does seem to me, possibly because the way the discourse of religious freedom by the united states was se