worked withn arizona the police and firemen. what i found out before, when you talk to union officials, if you talk frankly and turn on the facts, they change their position. too often in the past as conservative legislators, we have demonized the public employees. it is the state legislators and union officials that create a problem. --e you show them the facts they were able to come up with a pension reform for the police and firemen. that required a constitutional amendment. the amazing thing about the amendment is the police and firemen supported a constitutional amendment -- it applied to only new employees -- they supported because they realized if we don't do something, there will be not enough money for us. when you talk about cutting their pensions, they got worried. when you talk about cutting extra benefits that people are getting, they are ok with it. if we don't do something on pensions, not only are your pensions at risk so is public health and safety and we have to do something. when you see states -- school distri