it existed with wnyc. >> i was thinking the same thing. the npr, the pbses of this world. a certain percentage actually contributing but it's enough we get this thing done. >> it's the same for creators. we've taken the membership. we've taken the membership system. we've extracted it, shipped it to every creator in the world and do the same thing. we've added a lot of functionality. delivering physical goods to your patrons. there's a lot more coming and capabilities that i think creators will be able to use to build businesses. >> when you came up with this, a simple idea. i'm a musician mysel and create a way paid, complicated from a computer coding point of view but overall, the concept is simple and then you ran into the same problems that other big tech companies run into like you said certain people can't be on your platform. what they're doing is offensive and then you had to say, all right, take this gate keeper. it got more complicated than i think the original idea may have led you to think. >> i had no idea how complex it was to build a software company from sc

loewinger, a wnyc radio reporter, started working with the online extremist research group militia-watchto use zello to recruit and communicate. >> micah loewinger: leading up to january 6, we uncovered examples of militias saying things like "revolution or bust." that they were using zello to plan their travel to washington, d.c. that they were going to have separate channels for people gathering intel and separate channels for boots on the ground. >> alfonsi: and they did. on january 6, micah loewinger found an open "stop the steal" conversation going on among 100 people on zello, and started recording. >> loewinger: it wasn't until a couple days later that i started to realize how much planning must have gone into this event. and that's when i heard this mysterious woman narrating her march to the capitol and eventually inside. >> watkins: we have a good group. we've got about 30, 40 of us. we're sticking together and sticking to the plan. >> alfonsi: that mysterious woman is jessica watkins, a 38-year-old army veteran. she's the leader of a self- described ohio militia group and memb