that i was a history major and took plenty of classes that didn't really equip me to be a think tank wonk like i am now. so, i am not one who chose super rationally what they were going to do with their time in college. i think there is a distinction. so where i draw the line is there is a distinction between what the government is going to subsidize and spend money on an especially in the case of student loans. right? as a lender the federal government wants to ensure that the money that they are lending out gets paid back. right? >> the fiduciary responsibility of the taxpayers. i think above and beyond that a market would reward a lot of the non-me coonary benefits of higher ed that you are describing because people have a taste for that. i think those would still exist but as a taxpayer the question that i have is whether i am subsidizing, you know, and lending money to people to study things that i am going to wind up being on the hook for when they default. so that's where i would draw the line. i think taxpayers have a slightly different interest than students themselves. i think y

this is what tax wonks call a regressive tax structure. the reason for the regressive tax rates are states that rely heavily on sales taxes. the amount you're taxed on sales is the same if you're rich or poor as opposed to income taxes. where the rich pay more than poor people. the top of the list of states with the most regressive tax structures. these states tax at rates seven times higher than their most wealthy residents. while states are more progressive, virtually every state's tax system is fundamentally unfair. in a moment i'm going to talk to someone who argues that progressive taxes are bad for the economic health of states. but first no matter what political party you belong to or what you think of government many of us agree that the number of taxes americans pay has reached alarming levels. i've talked about this before. there are more than 90,000 so-called governmental units across the country that can tax local residents. they range from school districts to mosquito abatement authorities. we found many of these you wants are

>> well, when he wasn't being a partisan hack, gingrich was quite a policy wonk. he had a genuine interest in ideas, he was like clinton. clinton was a collector of ideas. some people collect stamps, some people collect other things, clinton collected ideas. gingrich was a little bit like that is welcome, he suddenly stumbled into power, not really ever anticipating that he would get that far, and now he could get some things done. so when the two of them were together, it was a little bit like a renaissance weekend. i remember one budget negotiation over new year's at the end of 1995, where all of the leaders were down at the white house trying to take one more stab, the government was to shut down for a second time, they were trying to take a stab at the budget agreement, and clinton was sitting in the cabinet room with gingrich on one side and bob dole on the other.

she's more the policy wonks, the audio log into that an incredible connector and i've known them both for a long time. i don't think there's anybody on the republican side who might run for president who would have a better understanding than i would and and maybe understand the background and so on but even having said that, hillary clinton is a rock star within the democratic party but it's interesting that while all the democrats expected to run and most of them say they would support her, i am not convinced -- first of all festival that she would pull the trigger when she has to and run probably well but maybe not and if she does, i don't think it is a foregone conclusion that she is the nominee or certainly not that she is elected president. i don't think she will be and let me say why. when people say it's inevitable. it was inevitable for her to be the nominee in 2008 and this relatively unknown upstart junior senator that sponsored zero legislation in the senate career he came up and be heard so let's let recent history be a guide to what the future may hold. >> host: who migh

she has more the policy wonk the ideologue and an incredible collector that bill clinton is. i don't think there's anybody on the republican side who might run for president who would have a better understanding than i wouldn't understand the background and so on. even having said that hillary clinton is a rock star within the democratic party. it's interesting that while the democrats expected or wanted most of them say they will support her i'm not convinced. first of all i'm not convinced that she will pull the trigger when she has to end run. probably will but maybe not and if she does i don't think it's a foregone conclusion that she's the nominee were certainly not that she is elected president. i don't think she will be elected president and let me say why when people say it's inevitable. it was inevitable for hillary clinton to be the nominee in 2008 in this relatively unknown upstart junior senator who sponsored zero legislation in the senate is named barack obama beat her. so let's let recent history be the guide of what the future may hold. >> host: who might that

pisa policy wonk. guest of restless intellect kind of like nelson rockefeller. he will be very much one of those solve the problem type of people if he gets into office. that's the dissension i draw more than between house and the senate. >> it's interesting you say that because until very recently the assumption was that governors would always have the inside track on presidential nominations and elections. yet in 2008 no matter who won a senator would be elected president. the first since john kennedy. and before him, warren harding. those are the three who have only, the only three of done it jump from the senate to the white house. we look at a period where senators seem to have built their own basis as presidential figures, whether it's rand paul ted cruz, and does anybody have anything to say about why this has happened? larry, do you have any thoughts? what happened to the great age of the executive governor? >> well, maybe it will come back you know, and it's true, nelson never saw a problem he didn't think he could solve that could be solved. and i was

i will admit to being an eu wonk, so i read the statement you gave after the foreign affairs council yesterday which i would have done even if you weren't here today -- >> to many europeans. >> and i was very interested when i got to the part on ukraine and russia. and you made a comment -- >> you're not the only one. >> you made a comment about how there was an eu policy paper that was leaked last week, which we also read with interest. you said you're going to be disappointed because there weren't big riffs and there's a consensus that we in the eu are going to stay the course. >> which was in the document that was leaked but didn't make the title. >> it's not nearly as newsworthy. i wanted to ask you two questions about that. one is you know, spell out for us, what does it mean to stay the course when in a sense the situation is always changing. we had the ukrainian prime minister yesterday talking about the 700 regular members of the russian army that were coming across the border into eastern ukraine. so, there's a deteriorating situation. in the eastern part of ukraine. we see

a roll back in sort of these tight control sequestration, my apologies for using such a washington wonkerchd erer spending controls that define the last three years of budget fights between the president and house republicans. so the question is is this now because the economy looks better, because companies can borrow at such a low rate because the government could, too? is he able to sell this idea that this is a good time to do frskt spending and things like that? i'm skeptical but we'll see. >> chuck, thank you so much. chuck todd joining us this afternoon. tune in and catch "metet the press," chuck breaking down what to expect from the president with his panel of experts and political players. lux in flux. once high flying luxury real estate sales facing a slowdown always prices continue to rise. robert frank has the details. >>> and next week markets are closed monday for martin luther king's birthday but tune in tuesday rick harrison from "pawn stars" is part of our all-star panel. at ally bank no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like mute buttons equal danger. .

you can see that chart in the "washington post" wonk blog has also written about this topic as well. we want to hear from our viewers this morning. our line for independents. good morning. caller: yeah. i think the big companies should. because -- yeah. i think the big companies should because i think they can afford it. with the smaller companies, you know you might have to work something out with business and government where they could let their employees go if they're sick. it's just the dignified thing to do in a dignified society. because people are going to get sick. that's just the way it is. and i don't agree with the fellow that said that he sees it being abused. i just generally don't see that. i see people wanting to work for their bread, then be dignified about it. i just don't see people abusing their sick leave. host: have you seen people supporting this if it comes out of their own pay checks if there has to be a specific payroll tax or something that companies employed to be able to provide seven sick days if that's the mandate? caller: well, if that's what they want

little surprised that he didn't have the specifics because bobby jindal is knowns as the wonky guy, the wonk's going to make an allegation of this type. i'm not surprised that he's making it. frankly, bobby jindal has been shifting further right in the last few months. he used to be one of the staunch supporters of common core. he's now one of the staunch opponents of common core. so i think as he tries desperately to break through the potential 2016 field, which is dominated by some of the big boys by the jeb bushes and romneys and chris christies, huckabees, he's having a hard time doing that. the mere fact that we're talking about him and that he's saying this i think appeals to some in the base and it's a good thing because we're actually talking about bobby jindal which we wouldn't be otherwise doing. >> yeah paul you disagree that talking about him in this vein is a good thing. >> he's a smart guy who keeps saying stupid things. he's a rhodes scholar. he went to school in england. he should have his facts on this and he doesn't. the prime minister of england, a conservative david camer