tony: he would hold classes like woodshop or metal shop.hen he retired, he still did that with my brother and i. three years old or four years old how things work, how to use tools. i did not know what a computer was until i saw my first one in 1979 or so. studied computer engineering. in 1991, you moved to silicon valley. tony: i worked with another guy to build a startup in high school. we were designing software and writing it for apple ii. i was frustrated because we did not have the internet. i thought i had to get to silicon via you -- valley as quickly as possible. emily: even back then, you are obsessed with apple? tony: i was obsessed with all things computing in the 1980's. it started with apple to. you worked on some of the precursor devices. decade, youf the probably knew more about mobile devices than literally anybody on the planet. emily: i kept doing -- tony: i kept doing the things i love to do. emily: tell me about when you met steve jobs. partythere was a birthday where i made for the first time. the next time was to give

tony: he would hold classes like woodshop or metal shop. when he retired, he still did that with my brother and i. building soapbox derby racers and fixing lawnmowers and bicycles together. we learned from three years old or four years old how things work, how to use tools. i did not know what a computer was until i saw my first one in 1979 or so. emily: you studied computer engineering. at the university of michigan. in 1991, you moved to silicon valley. tony: i worked with another guy to build a startup in high school. we were doing mail order for apple ii. we were designing software and writing it for apple ii. i was frustrated because we did not have the internet. i thought i had to get to silicon valley as quickly as possible. because i would be reading mac week magazine. emily: even back then, you are obsessed with apple? tony: i was obsessed with all things computing in the 1980's. it first started with apple ii. emily: you worked on some of the precursor devices. general magic and you started your own company and by the end of the d

he would hold classes like woodshop and metal shop.hen he retired, he still did that with us, my brother and i. building soapbox derby racers and fixing lawnmowers and bikes together. we learned from a very young it, like three years old and four years old, how things work, how to use tools. i did not know what a computer was until i saw my first one in 1979 or so. emily: you want to the -- you went to the university of michigan, you studied computer engineering. then in 1991, you moved to silicon valley. tony: yes, i worked with another guy to build a startup in high school. emily: oh, really? tony: we were doing mail order for apple ii. we were designing software and writing it for apple ii. ultimately, i was so frustrated, because we did not have the internet then, right? i thought i had to get to silicon valley as fast as possible. i would read "macweek" magazine religiously every week on the back. what are the rumors, what's going on? emily: so even back then, you are obsessed with apple? tony: i absolutely was obsessed with all t

having a woodshop. having a construction crew. it all seemed normal. must donate would have a meeting or willie brown would have a meeting or jane fonda. something about this has to be real. so you assumed. what happens after a. that jim jones became background noise. the other people there were your family. because they didn't want to leave their family there alone. they didn't want them to be abused or possibly hurt. or interrogated because you left. guilt,ople stayed out of some people stayed out of responsibility. we never called old people old people. or --ere the responsible repository of knowledge. when they spoke, you are expected to listen. they passed on their knowledge to us. jones was a little bit different. getting there was an adventure. .eing there was an adventure there was a certain urgency to it. were they under attack? were they going to take the children? were they going to bomb us off the map as if it never happened. there was a certain fright. these potholes which is huge. you can see the jungle. you only see what was in front of

coming into the peoples temple at 18 having a printing press, a woodshop, a construction crew to get you in the community to meet all these different people, it all seemed normal. what made it seemed so normal is brown at aee willie meeting or jane fonda. we are not all being fooled. something about this has to be real. so you assumed. what happens after time is that jim jones became background noise. what you felt responsible for were the other people there. they were your family. you felt responsible towards them. a lot of people stay because they did not want to leave their family there alone. they didn't want them to be abused or possibly hurt or interrogated because you left. some people stayed out of guilt, some people stayed out of responsibility. some stayed out of love for other human beings to protect them and be at their call, so to speak. we never called old people, old people. we called them seniors. they were the repository of knowledge. when they spoke, you are expected to listen. if they needed assistance, you are expected to assist. they passed on their knowledge to