i was just thinking about the, the world health movement, this is a not a us phenomenon either, it's, it's cross-national. the world health organization did a study in, in the late '90s across 14 different countries, looking at 18 of the most stigmatized conditions, including drug and alcohol addiction. so they had things like being homeless, being a criminal, being hiv- positive, all these very heavily stigmatized conditions. and what they found, cross-nationally, drug addiction was number one, alcohol addiction was number four, so two of the top four were the most stigmatized conditions cross-nationally. and stigma, and, and that surprised me. i mean obviously we all know that these conditions are very stigmatized, just how stigmatized, i didn't realize, that they, they would come top of that list. so that was very surprising to me. so what we're dealing with is possibly and probably the most stigmatized of all social problems, if you frame them, put it in that framework. and i think importantly, there were two factors that i see moderate stigma. one is cause and the other is contro