it's me scribbled yale university in the u. s. has published a hall of shame, a list of companies that continue to do unrestricted business in russia. among them are the swiss bank credit suisse. gotcha. telecom and chinese computer manufacturer, lenovo, some companies such as nestle and astra. seneca are fighting back against the accusations and defending remaining in russia. they argue that they have a responsibility to continue supplying the russian people with essential food and medicines. while i've been speaking to jeffrey solomon felt he and his team at yale school of management happen, maintaining a list of companies have either pulled out or remained in russia. i asked him if he had been surprised by the reaction of western firms to the invasion of ukraine. it's amazing how enthusiastically they and, and rapidly they responded. it was um, across industry sectors and surprised by who moved in what sequence. the korean graphy has been surprising to have big oil and energy companies on the frontiers of social change is not t

we'll hear from the yale university team is keeping track of them. i'm moscow stock market search as is trading reopened after almost a month. but rally is perhaps not all, it seems as to see to be a business on robots in berlin. welcome to the program. western leaders are pledging to impose further economic sanctions against the russian government over the invasion of you. crime that back to back meetings of the e, nato and g 7 in brussels. they also promised further ministries to the ukrainians. as president joe biden says, countries expanding its sanctions to target members of the russian parliament and defense contractors. he also says he's warmed chinese premier. she jim ping against supporting hooton's regime. i made no threats, but i pointed out the number of american foreign corporations left russia is a consequential, they're very barbaric behavior. and i indicated that i knew how much she, because we had long discussions in the past about his interest in making sure he had economic relations and economic growth with europe in the united sta

i didn't really have the tools to prepare for, you know to go to yale. you've got to like be driven for that or have contacts or you know, have you ever seen since you may come a professional on your in public forums and all that somebody discriminate against you because of ohio state georgetown versus the ivy leagues i think so on any. oh, yes anytime you do a job at a top market school. they look a little bit down even at georgetown compared to princeton harvard and yale, you know, it's just the way it is. i mean, it's there there is an eliteism you compensate in any way for that. work i outwork people. and i have a work ethic and and by the time i just keep a kind of put my head down and go straight ahead. i've you know, it's in in you compensate for it in just different ways. my first book i wrote on dean acheson and i got published by yo university press so, you know, you're like now connected because you did a book with that particular press but i first came to dc it startled me that the encounter elitism writ large not at georgetown, but just in t

i didn't really have the tools to prepare for, you know to go to yale. you've got to like be driven for that or have contacts or you know, have you ever seen since you may come a professional on your in public forums and all that somebody discriminate against you because of ohio state georgetown versus the ivy leagues i think so on any. oh, yes anytime you do a job at a top market school. they look a little bit down even at georgetown compared to princeton harvard and yale, you know, it's just the way it is. i mean, it's there there is an eliteism you compensate in any way for that. work i outwork people. and i have a work ethic and and by the time i just keep a kind of put my head down and go straight ahead. i've you know, it's in in you compensate for it in just different ways. my first book i wrote on dean acheson and i got published by yo university press so, you know, you're like now connected because you did a book with that particular press but i first came to dc it startled me that the encounter elitism writ large not at georgetown, but just in t

yale has a policy against barring free speech and yet no consequences at yale.s wasn't just a peaceful protest. it got a little out of hand. the washington free beacon said at times things seemed in danger of getting physical. protestors were blocking the only exit from the event and two members of the federalist society said they were grabbed and jostled as they attempted to leave. one student said hey, i want to fight and then used a profanity after that. your final thoughts. >> so simply this is not cancel culture if you behave like a moron on national television and are videoed and threaten a litigator who has argued 12 cases in front of the supreme court with violence. and try to top them from speaking and you are caught on film doing that it is perfectly legitimate for a federal judge to look at your name and say i don't think i want to give this person a clerkship or hire them. whether a liberal or conservative you shouldn't want someone like that working for you. actions have consequences and it will follow them the rest of their careers. >> trace: thank

while i've been speaking to jeffrey, sullen felt he and his team at yale school of management have been maintaining a list of companies have either pulled out or remained in russia. i asked him if he'd been surprised by the reaction of western firms to the invasion of ukraine. it's amazing how enthusiastically they and, and rapidly they responded. it was a across industry sectors and surprised by who moved in what sequence the korea graphy has been surprising to have big oil and energy companies on the frontiers of social change is not the normal pattern. and to have the controversial big tech companies engage so quickly. they've been of course, in a spotlight, a good deal of, of controversial is currently scrutiny and recent years. and then to have the professional service firms that would usually rather jump off a cliff than engage in and public conflict to actually get involved in controversy this early. it was quite remarkable. and has the actual presence of this list made a difference because it's been really quite widely distributed. and the see as of these companies clearly know

yale really is taking no responsibility.ak their minds but nonetheless, kristin was with us just about an hour ago and had this observation about the reaction at this free speech meeting and how she was not allowed to give her free speech. >> the whole point of the panel was to demonstrate civil discourse between two ideological opponents and to show that where you can find common ground and the law you should to protect civil liberties. they were more interested, these students, in heckling, hurling insults and shouting down the speakers. this wasn't a protest. this was physical intimidation and bullying that took place in the presence of yale administration. these are america's future leaders. they are our future lawyers, corporate executives and it's essential that we do not allow mobs to rule. that we engage in debate. the best lawyers write well and they engage in critical thinking and yale needs to return to those basic skills and teach their kids. >> steve: that's what you want. you want lawyers who look at both sides

he went -- he did not go to yale or harvard. he is a self-described hellraiser before he turned the corner and became a more serious person. he would have had a hard time. he does not meet the educational background and he would have been more controversial. ruth bader ginsburg would be controversial. they took stands along the way before they got there. the current route to the court encourages keeping your head down and working hard. like a silent version of jumping through all of these ever narrowing hoops. i do not think that is helpful. susan: you referenced how presidents use to appoint politicians. we pulled these numbers from your book. before 1980, 14 u.s. senators, 17 house members, five continental congress members, one president, or two in your telling, 10 governors, five mayors, and 40 state legislators, sandra day o'connor was the last appointee with political experience. why the change? prof. barton: it is a divided court and public opinion on it is divided. people think the court is already to political, so addin

yale law school staff spoke to yale police officers, who were already on hand about whether assistancet follow instructions, that assistance was not needed and the event went forward. members of the administration are in serious conversation with students about our free speech policy expectations and norms. now to the former president on her campus, emily compagno. >> emily: thank you, harris. i was saying i was president of the federal society at my law school, not yale. it was 20 years ago. it was fine, supportd and encouraged that every conversation we had two sides to it, we had two sides to debate. you would think in san francisco, if there would be pushback, it would be there, but it wasn't. it breaks my heart that the state of legal education now has devolved to one of children that are fighting, threatening violence against other points of view. we watch children fighting for their lives in ukraine and freedom, we are watching children here be absolutely intolerant and unable to hear a different point of view. >> harris: i heard joe concha chiming in there. joe. >> joe: i thoug

yale said it wasn't that big of a deal it wasn't that bad. pete: yale is not going to change.eade is here to tell us about his one-on-one interview. rachel: oh, interesting. pete: coming up next. ♪ fresh real meat and veggies. the food dogs where built to eat. the farmer's dog is changing the way we feed our pets. visit tryfarmersdog.com to see your dogs personalized meal plan. thanks for bringing me with you guys today, mr. and mrs. lopez. not a problem, josh. hey, you two. check out all these camera views in my silverado i can see in front of me, behind me, on either side of me. and it has this cam, so i can see if there's any funny business going on. you see any funny business going on? no, sir. let's have a great day! the chevy silverado offers eight cameras with up to 15 different views. find new views. find new roads. chevrolet. i've always focused on my career. but when we found out our son had autism, his future became my focus. lavender baths always calmed him. so we turned bath time into a business. ♪ and building it with my son has been my dream job. ♪ at northweste

>> that panel was hosted by the yale federalist society. it featured a panelist from the progressive american humanist association as well as the panelists fromas the conservative nonprofit alliancest defending freedom. both of those groups had taken the exact same side in a 2020 one supreme court case involving free speech as soon as the conservative panelist was introduced, yale protesters begin standing up shouting, holding signs up that attacked her group as well as thefe federalist society and according to the washington free beacon, one protester told a woman fromt the conservative group, quote, l i will literally fight you. l here'sle more from that event on the outside. as long 60% you're welcome to stay and listen and ask questions when we get to the fauci and i'm sitting there all day now. ne police eventually arrived tong escort the panelists out of the building and in two days following that panel you saw right thereth 60% of the law school student body signed an open letter supporting an the protesters who they claimed were imp

they reached out to yale law school and gave us a long statement.o you. you can press pause and read it if you want, but we also reache out to the others for comment. in the meantime the woke lasted and said they were exercising their right to free speech like a saying i have a right to remain silent because you put a ball gag in my mouth. kat, you were a campus reform journalist, has it gotten worse? >> it's been pretty bad for a while. what makes this one bad as this is law school which means they're going to want to go int practicing law and you can correct me, emily, but my understanding of it is that a lot of that job in that career has to be able to express your argument in a convincing and eloquent way, like you can't, one of them is screaming i will fight you, [bleep]. if you do that in court, you an your client are going to jail, right? >> and less you are jussie smollett. >> you are a lawyer, these are future lawyers spread. >> what else do you expect, but what kills me is going back to the ukraine conversation, children in ukraine are dyi

they are actually in yale law school. career and they typically want to be a judge. if you want to be a judge, your literal job is to listen to both sides. and they don't understand that? how did they get into yale law school with that mentality? it's interesting there should be finally consequences for something like this. i don't know if you need a list. you could just, you know, do it without a list. just do your research and see if you want to hire these people. >> look, free speech is very important. and the person who came to lecture or engage in dialogue is someone who had argued before the supreme court. you would think the students at the law school would be interested in critical thinking and dialogue. the truth is they want to drown that first amendment. that bothers me. that tells me if they end up on a a bench somewhere and on the supreme court, we've got a real problem. i think they should be asterisked. >> greg, it's ok he e-mailed his colleagues and said don't hire these people? >> the only bench these peo

of freedom of speech. >> i look forward to hearing from you. >> now, that panel was hosted b that yaleederalist society it featured a panelist from the progressive american humanist association as well as a panelist from the conservative nonprofit alliance ending freedom. both of those groups had taken the exact same side and the 202 supreme court case involving free-speech. as soon as they conservative panel was introduced, yale protesters began standing up, shouting, holding signs up that attacked her group as well as the federalist society and according to the washington fre beacon one protester told a woman from the conservative group i will literally fight you , leap. here is more from that event. >> you are looking welcome to stay and listen if you have questions. now, please eventually arrived to escort the panelist out of the building and in the two day following that panel use all right there, 60 percent of the law school student body signed an open letter supporting the protesters who they claimed wer imperiled by the presence of police officers. >> thank you so much. it turn

. >> well, we should note that in 2005 you won an award from the yale school of management, what wast? >> at first we believed in business planning and really, you know, putting -- we don't do anything off the cuff. we put pen to paper. we try to analyze every angle of -- of one of our models, we pilot for a number of years toe make sure that we don't waste anybody's time and we don't waste any money. we are very careful about that and so we in 2005, 2004 and '3 and that time frame, we began designing and piloting the first book marketplace, this e-commerce site that offers the books and resources that i describe and we wrote our business plan for the marketplace based on all of our pilots and all of our great thinking and we submitted it to the yale school of management and won the national competition for, you know, best national business plan and we were able to roll that out, roll the marketplace out, recruit the funding needed underneath it and look at us now, 17 million books annually reaching 5 million kids and supporting 525,000 educators. so i guess the plan paid off. >> wel

that is all according to my next guest jeffrey sonnenfeld of yale.ies digging in, demanding exit, and another 48 who have chosen not to change their policy, among these, lg electronic, pirelli tires, subway sandwich shops. and polk industries. vanity fair napkins, authentic groups, eddie bauer and reebok. claiming those shoo stop investing in or buying the products of these companies. joining me, jeffrey sonnenfield, senior assistant dean of school of management. thank you for being here. i have asked you this with regards to voting rights, i could have asked it about guns, immigration. when is it important for corporations to worry about more than their bottom lines? what are the parameters? >> well, the geopolitical context is a critical part of a business responsibility. you want to have safety and trust in free markets and social harmony. and tolstoy visited america, and wrote the book "democracy in america." it's that communities trust each other a foundation that believes there isn't just a tightness in the legal system. he called social capita

he's from yale, he can handle all those scenarios.one can answer, comb through what might be the most likely outcome, what is your sense of where this is heading? let's try to go through this. i think those are very good scenarios. the first one, palace coup — you could see very much when he was briefing his foreign intelligence chief and his military chief, there was some footage of this, how freaked out they seemed. yeah, they looked terrified. yeah, and there are stories about senior russian generals contacting other countries to say, _ "don't worry, we are not going to fire nukes" in defiance of putin. something is going wrong there with his relationship to the military. and if they genuinely think he's out of control, they will move against him, and i think it's important to understand that even though he is a ex—kgb man, the kgb will be confident that they can get in with the next guy too, so i don't think putin should be overly confident about his situation. i think the second scenario that's worth looking at is your cyprus sce

the next jump, yale us. thank you shawn pierre. very interestingly, i've made some notes and i'll report back to the president. more question don't. it was all part of an enormous smokescreen strategy to tell handy to sit asi can, does us to scottish elsie marsh chinney, who mitchell marshall between cheney wanted to rocky oil. he saw the opportunity for the united states to gain control of a huge reserves of the whole world. relied on on him a gold key. others rank you over bill? oh, i realize there a lot of cynics who like to say, well, the only thing that anybody cares about is why one money. i don't deny that lots of people in the world care about oil and money. but you don't want a world where a powerful neighbor can simply go in and, and grab and destroy in another country. that principal was a major part of the motive for the, for senior administration. and that administration's response, 6 days after the iraqi invasion, us soldiers land in saudi arabia, the saudi kingdom becomes a base for an international coalition of $34.

the next jump. yale. ok. thank you, sean pierre. very interestingly, i've made some notes and i'll report back to the president. more question don't. it was all part of an enormous smokescreen strategy to tell handy to sit asi can, does us to scottish elsie marsh chinney, who mitchell now showed between cheney wanted to rock your oil. he saw the opportunity for the united states to gain control of the huge reserves of the whole world relied on on him a gold key, others rank you over bill. i realize there a lot of cynics who like to say, well, the only thing that anybody cares about is why one money. i don't deny that lots of people in the world care about oil and money. but you don't want a world where a powerful neighbor can simply go in and, and grab and destroy in another country. that principal was a major part of the motive for the, for senior administration. and that administration's response, 6 days after the iraqi invasion, us soldiers land in saudi arabia, the saudi kingdom becomes a base for an international coalition of $

had been on two or three parts in the morning show free period of weeks before and i think it was yale and stanford have done the study. what makes marriages last the longest most romantic you can always tell no matter how old they get. she said you know what it is, when the husband loves the wife more. i want to tell you, this was worth the trip to come here today. [applause] i love wisconsin, minnesota. [applause] hello, wisconsin. if you hear me across the river, hello, minnesota. thank you for that introduction and thank you for welcoming both your states and mr. mayor. and the mayor duluth i don't think she had a coat on. tina smith -- [applause] last night i was with your senators and representatives in congress to speak about the state of the union. together we sent an unmistakable signal that we stand with the ukrainian people. [applause] the repeated efforts he thought the west end nato wouldn't respond. he thought they could divide us at home, but he was wrong. we were ready. we sent countless hours unifying the european allies. we counted the lies and truth by letting them k

he left ann arbor for yale in the fall of 1935 hired to coach boxing and football. it wasn't long before the faculty offered coach ford an opening in their law program. he was ready for the challenge and in 1941 jerry ford graduated in the top third of his class. returning home to grand rapids. he opened a law practice with his friend philip buchan. but their plans were interrupted by foreign dictators. and gerald ford navy ensign went off to war. for almost two years the aircraft carrier monterey would take him across 40,000 miles of the pacific his experience in 10 major battles would change his perception of the world and his nations place in it. he had seen too much of the world to believe that it would go away or that america could bury her head in the sand. i always fell that i was a moderate to conservative republican i felt very strongly that. the united states had to have an internationalist foreign policy for the internationalist chose a quonset hut for a headquarters in his uphill challenge of isolationist incumbent bartell youngman. at stake was michigan

for a closer look i'm joined by jeffrey sonnen field of the yale school of management and keeps a publicist of these companies and has been speaking with some of the companies about the decisions to withdraw from russia. welcome to the "newshour." thanks for making the time. so that list keeps growing, right? of companies breaking operations and suspending operations, you and your team are keeping track. over 300 so far, i believe. but tell me how big of an impact is all of this having or could all this have on the ground in russia? >> thank you very much. yes, it's having an enormous impact already. is that these voluntary business blockades matched with governmental sanctions on certain key industries, finance, and transportation, he worked to help slow this economy if not bring it to a complete stand still. already we're seeing inflation approaching 30%. we're seeing the russian ruble has plunged to a value of 80% or so and unheard of. we saw this happen with south africa when we had this great cooperation between business and government. although then like now, there are no governmen

i don't write for the yale professor because i couldn't get into yell. i didn't like the campus. i write for us the way i speak is what's in this book. the first thing i did is talk it all through with my editor said we got something here. i hope you feel the same way. so it's only been a few days the first time i feel like i left study hall and now i have to take the oral exam. so i like to take some of your questions now because you do have another speaker coming up shortly. great. thanks mr. can we absolutely i'm everybody we're so thrilled that you're here. obviously, we can't take every question. so what i'm going to do is walk through the center aisle. we'll take about three or four questions and then i'll come back up again and instruct you how to go and talk to mr. kill me a little bit more beyond that. so if anybody has a question right along this aisleway, support brandon, i want him to go. let's go brandon. yeah. okay. hey brian, i want to thank you for that bringing godfill with you. i'm so what do you say? i'll probably a gutfelt. yeah. yeah, he doesn't travel. well.

my studies at cardinal spellman high school earning scholarships to princeton university and then yale law school while my brother went on to medical school. our achievements are due to the values that we learned as children and they have continued to guide my life's endeavors. i try to pass on this legacy by serving as a mentor and friend. to my many god's children and to students of all backgrounds over the past three decades. i have seen our judicial system from a number of different perspectives. as a big city prosecutor as a corporate litigator as a trial judge and as an appellate judge. my first job after law school was as an assistant district attorney in new york. there i saw children exploited and abused. i felt. pain and suffering of families torn apart by the needless death of loved ones. i saw. and learned the tub job law enforcement has in protecting the public. in my next legal job. i focused on commercial instead of criminal matters. i litigated issues on behalf of national and international businesses and advise them on matters ranging from contracts to trademarks. my c

jason stanley is a professor of philosophy at yale university and author of the book, how fascism works. he joins us live now from new haven, connecticut. by skype, jason stanley, thank you so much for being with us on al jazeera and i'm letting me put in as said that the invasion, the war is to d, nasa fi ukraine a you've often said that often this sort of language is used to deflect from someone's own fascism. so what would you say is putin's brand of fascism and why is ukraine so crucial to it? so brewton is the leader of a kind of global far right movement funding far right ultra nationalists all across the world. russian fascism, the kind of animate an ideology behind this terrible invasion, starts with the view that you crane is properly russia, that there are no ukrainians, that there is no such thing as ukrainian identity. that these are really just the russians confused. the russians who been somehow brainwashed by saw by globalist forces and in to think and, and do sorta and ukrainian nationalists and to thinking there's this thing, ukraine. in fact, it's just russia. so what

una hathaway, professor of international law at yale law school and a member of the advisory committeetate. we're looking at live pictures -- let's go back to a second. i'll tell you what was going on there. joe biden is at a stadium in warsaw, and what you were watching moments ago and you still might see in the background is world central kitchens. that's jose andres' group, and the president was just talking to him moments ago. you can recognize him because he's the guy that looks like me. he's got the same haircut. we'll keep dipping in and out. those are food trucks to feed refugees as they come in. i want to continue the conversation about refugees. i'm joined by caitlyn dickerson, staff writer for "the atlantic" who covers the immigration beat. you heard this morning in the president's conversation with the president of poland, he recognized the fact that poland has taken the vast majority of these refugees, over two million. this city that i am in alone, warsaw, has taken more than 300,000 refugees. the united states has said that it will take 100,000. a lot of people are sayin

these are exactly the questions that i wanted to investigate at yale university. the mower experiment very simply, was a simulated torture. this was one, not all the research we've been describing is the impact of interrogation upon the subject. milgar had another agenda, the impact of interrogation upon the target. if he were to indicate the wrong answer, he would say wrong. then tell him the number of rolls you're going to give him. then give him the punishment and read the correct word pair. once he got an ordinary people who fit by all the regular scale is very normal americans. and then he subjected them under false color to do to doing what he called an educational experiment in tried to encourage people to apply ever higher voltages as a false patient kept on getting, making mistakes. in fact, milgar was able to encourage, at least in his 1st experiments, i think close to 70 percent, to go on to apply highly dangerous and sometimes fatal shocked. i'm not going to get that man's name is i want to learn or lice it or not. we must go on until you all refuse to

guest: at this point every other justice is either a harvard or yale law school graduate.ost: why has that happened? guest: it is an interesting question. part of it is people go to harvard and yale get themselves in the pipeline to do things like be supreme court clerks, be appointed federal judges and those credentials also help them get into higher courts. it's may be a question that doesn't have a perfect answer, you may have to ask the people who advise the president and the president's why they frequent to land on someone who went to the top law school spring -- law schools. caller: thank you for taking my call. i just have a couple of comments. if judge jackson is qualified, more power to her. my thought is though. everybody knows even she knows that she was chosen for the nomination based on the color of her skin and her gender. she must not have much self-respect if she's not embarrassed to even accept the nomination on that basis. i'm reading right now she's had several of cases overturned for overreach so i will be keeping an eye on her. all of biden's nominatio

barbara: a little earlier, i spoke to jason stanley, a professor of philosophy at yale and adversity author of the book "how fascism works." he gave us his view of why poutine decided to invade ukraine. >> bertens target is and has always been democracy. he seeks to show that democracy anywhere is really just a facade for some kind of ultra nationalism, white supremacy, something like this. a six to show that democracy is an existential threat to putin's regime, because if the people of russia see this fairly thriving state, nation to them that replaces its leaders, that replaces its leaders in elections, then they will see that that sort of thing is possible. when they see that a country can replace it leaders by elections, that is a threat to russia. so he is an enemy of democracy. barbara: still to come, in russia, kremlin critic alexei navalny is sentenced to nine years in the maximum security prison after being found guilty of fraud and contempt of court. ♪ >> l.a. reid go with your weather update, beginning in china. . we have rain for southern sections, this is clipping hong k

so i think we should be looking we shouldn't just be looking at people who went to harvard or yale. we shouldn't just be looking at men. we shouldn't just be looking at. you know, we shouldn't be excluding women or women of color, but we also should be thinking about district court judges, right, you know district court judges, they try cases. they're there with human beings seeing the justice system in action, right? we rarely i can't remember the last time we we put nominate somewhat pick someone for the court who came from the trial experience as i believe this this this justice this person you mentioned would so just as i said in place not race, i think we need to expand the pipeline to institutions and absolutely having someone come from a fine public university. they're wonderful public institutions out there. they you know, there's genius everywhere in this country everywhere, right? so i i applied that and yeah, there will be inevitably if this particular person that you're talking about. i'm forgetting her name, but she's the just the judge from south carolina who is nomina

i had i think three yale students living on my magic bus. i had students from university of virginia. did you sleep on the bus? yeah, we all did we tried to his camp? i mean when you say sleep on the bus people would be while we're driving. on their sleeping bags writing journaling, but then we would get off and go to you know, we've had it figured out every night either campsite a place to park so you didn't drive overnight. mmm, no because the driver couldn't keep driving that much. i mean legally, he probably overran what he's supposed to but for insurance purposes and all he can only do you know, i think he was supposed to only drive eight hours or something. he probably do 10, but then we would try to make our designated camp site like at a state park or what went wrong the engine broke. we had we had one magic most triple and all the way up to alaska up to fairbanks the alaska highway to get yeah, and and we touched the pipe because we were debating whether they trans, you know, i'll ask a pipes a good idea bad idea, but we were and an

i had i think three yale students living on my magic bus. i had students from university of virginia. did you sleep on the bus? yeah, we all did we tried to his camp? i mean when you say sleep on the bus people would be while we're driving. on their sleeping bags writing journaling, but then we would get off and go to you know, we've had it figured out every night either campsite a place to park so you didn't drive overnight. mmm, no because the driver couldn't keep driving that much. i mean legally, he probably overran what he's supposed to but for insurance purposes and all he can only do you know, i think he was supposed to only drive eight hours or something. he probably do 10, but then we would try to make our designated camp site like at a state park or what went wrong the engine broke. we had we had one magic most triple and all the way up to alaska up to fairbanks the alaska highway to get yeah, and and we touched the pipe because we were debating whether they trans, you know, i'll ask a pipes a good idea bad idea, but we were and an