her father really read the privilege of the young man that he served at yale as a chef, into himself. and the parents thought of themselves as the father in particular, as superior. they were part of the british empire, and proud of that. they were ambitious in their own way, and yet constance baker was a young girl and not expected to go far. however, she was incredibly intelligent, ambitious, had teachers who introduced her to the work of wb to boyce and james weldon johnson. debbie eb to boyce and james weldon -- w.e.b du bolis, and james weldon johnson. they told her women don't get anywhere in the law, and yet she was able to attend college and then law school because she gave a talk at a social club, a civic club in new haven, which happened to be attended by clarence blakeslee, who is a graduate of yale and a wealthy man, philanthropist who heard her speak, and said to her afterwards, why are you in college? because you clearly should be. and he offered to pay for her college and law school tuition. and she said it was like a fairytale. that she could be plucked in that way. an

david: you went to yale. you were elected as a rhodes scholar.rom oxford, you later came back and went to yale law school and became a supreme court clerk for justice breyer. when you're having this career, did you ever think your career could go off the deep end because everything was working out perfectly? jake: it is true i have had incredible opportunities. at every one of those stages, i went through the same fears, growing pains, slip-ups, and stumbles that everyone does, and that was true with respect to academic work. that was far from perfect. it was true with respect to relationships that did not work out. i had what i think was, you know, an incredibly lucky childhood, but it was not too different from that of other people who grew up in the midwest in the 1980's and got to have these chances. david: what did your father and mother do? jake: my father worked in the business side of the minneapolis star tribune. that was the major newspaper in minneapolis. my mother was a teacher and guidance counselor in minneapolis public schools. i a

did you learn any constitutional law at yale? justice alito: reading the document is actually a very ethical idea. why would anybody actually do that? the answer to the question of whether i learned constitutional law at yale is basically no. as i mentioned, professor bickel got sick and did not teach anymore, and then there was my law class. all of the students in the first semester were required to take four subjects. three of the classes were taught in big groups, big sessions, but for each of us one of those courses was taught in a small group with maybe 10, 12 students. the point of that was we were supposed to learn the subject as well as legal writing. so i looked up my course assignment and saw that i had been assigned to a small group in constitutional law taught by charles reisch. the name probably does not mean anything to people now, but, a short bio. in the 1960's he had really been a leading progressive constitutional scholar. he wrote an article called the new property, which was thought to be influential into gold

of yale and new haven. that's something i note in my work is that for some we imagine one of the working class black person growing up in new haven in the shadow of yale might be oppressive but for her family their position was inspiring and in fact her father really read the privilege of the young men that he served at yale as shift into himself. and this is parents her parents thought of themselves as a father in particular as superior. they were part of the british empire. they were ambitious in their own way and yet constance baker was a young girl and she was not expectedto go very far . she was incredibly intelligent and ambitious. add teachers who introduced her to the work of web do boy . she decided pretty early on she wanted to be a lawyer and when she told her family and friends about this they said you must be crazy. women don't get anywhere in the law. and yet she was able to attend college and then law school because she gave a talk at a social club in new haven. which happened to be attended

she's the dean of the yale law school. to talk about this. dean, thanks for your time.about the u.s. news rankings "its approach not only fails to advance the legal profession but stands squarely in the way of progress." what do you mean by that? what was the final straw? >> you know, over the last years u.s. news has been creating one metric after another that makes it impossible for law schools who are worried about their rankings, which is a lot of them, to do the right thing by their students. it made it harder for them to support students who want to do public interest work and it's made it harder for law schools to bring in low-income students into their midst and provide them the support they need. it really has been time for us to take a step back and to think about the values of legal education and the values of the profession. >> and this is big news for a good reason because as i mentioned yale law has been ranked nuk 1 on this list since 1990. is your intention to devalue, even crash this ranking system? because if we're being honest, yale law's going to be

yale explains, i believe that u.s.h the best of intentions it faces a nearly impossible task ranking 192 law schools with a small set of one-size-fits-all metrics that cannot provide an accurate picture of such varied institutions. its approach not only fails to advance the legal profession but stands squarely in the way of progress. here with us now, cnn correspondent mark stewart. i'm going to let you start this ms. law student. >> i have a clear bias. >> you're a lawyer. >> i'm not. i have a masters. i went to yale law school last year. i think what the dean is saying here, it's appropriate. it's notable it was ranked number one law school saying we don't need that ranking. right. and all law schools are so different. >> they are very different. i think that what the dean of yale said reflects what many universities have felt. i reached out to a number of people in the world of academia and no one is a fan of these lists. education in general means very individualized, even law school is individualized. i was talkin

he puts them off and eventually turns them down because he wants to go to yale. he goes to yell without the promise of getting into law school, but because he has a job with the athletic department, and then protections the law school for entering, which eventually earns. >> very good. and then, another sort of light spirited -- i wanted to bring up chevy chase here. so gerald ford's spoofed a little bit on saturday night live, opting not to show any clips today, but just a couple of things -- clumsy and so forth. was that just unfair? is that sort of a hazard of being president and being under the microscope? was there any truth to saturday night live's take on president ford? >> there's a grain of truth in any caricature, in any good caricature. and i'm not saying the -- chevy chase was good at caricature, i will say that forward laughed it off. i will say that it got under his skin. because he was -- arguably, the most accomplished athlete ever to occupy the oval office. as you pointed out, three offers to play professional football. and a natural at just abou

i think they might have us confused with el. -- yale. [laughter] what about the educational program? -- explains that recent decisions by the supreme court on abortion, the establishment clause, the second amendment and administrative state have created a health scape that can be laid directly on the doorstop of fed sock. so if you are a judge, this convention offers you a unique educational opportunity. to get ahead of the curve and start work on the sequel. health scape two. not all critics of the society are on the left. consider harvard law professor adrian vermeulen. who recently published an op-ed in the washington post entitles, there is no conservative legal movement. there is no conservative legal movement. what a coincidence to run into all of you here this morning. [laughter] for the last few years, the professor has been composing a requiem for what he calls originalism inc. touting a better originalism he calls -- constitutionalism. or what i call living coming good-ism. i am a skeptic. but after reading the op-ed and watchi

so why did you choose yale law school? justice alito: the clarence thomas of those days was different in appearance. i wish i had gotten to know him better, but what i remember about him was clarence standing in the courtyard wearing dungarees and no shirt, and at that time he did a lot of lifting. he is a powerful figure just going like this with the football, so he was a formidable presence in a different way. why did i go to yale? size was important to me. it was a lot smaller than harvard, i thought i would be less of a number. reports from people i knew went to the two places, people at yale were happier than friends i knew at harvard that seemed to vary from feeling down to the border of clinical depression. [applause] and it more respectable reason for going was i was really hoping to take some constitutional law classes from a professor whose work i had read and i was very impressed with him. >> you were not able to do that, were you? justice alito: i was not. he got sick just after i got there. i do not think you

yale's motto is for god, for country, for c yale. they hated god and country.that was eye-opening. i realized early on this was not quite where i personally fit in. >> tucker: fox news alert for you. new votes, 24 hours after the election, coming out right now in arizona. katie hobbs' total, 953,783. canine 40,716. what does this mean? kari lake joins us now with her view. kari, thanks for coming back. what does this tell you about where this is going? >> i look back and last night, down 15 points. now we're down two/tenths of a point maricopa county elections officials, the most inquestion incompetentin the country, hopey they'll start telling us about the republican voters, the ones that showed up on game day to vote. that's what we're waiting for. we think they'll start delivering the results tomorrow. 2275,000 of those votes were people who had a mail-in ballot, did not trust the system, wanted to wake walk it in on election day. we know this big group of voters, 650,000, are going to swing very heavily our way. we believe we will be victorious at the end o

university and she grew up in the shadow of yale in new haven. something i note in my work to quail as a chef and the panters thought of themselves asy, superior and ambitious in their own way and con stance baker was a young girl and she was not expected to go very far. however, she was incredibly intelligent, ambitious, had teachers who introduced her to the work of wb dubois and james wells johnson and she decided early on she wanted to be a lawyer and when she told her family and friends about this, they said that you must be crazy. women don't get anywhere in the law. yet she was able to attend college and then law school because she gave a talk at a social club, a civic club in new haven that happened to be attended by clarence blakely that was a graduate of yale and lea wealthy man philanthropist d heard her speak and said afterwards, why aren't you in college because you clearly should be. he offered to pay for her college and her law school tuition. she said that it was like a fairy tale that she could be plucked in that way. it set her

. >> is this a yale philosophical conversation?ood that this would get past what it requires to get this done? i've got 30 seconds. tell me if it's realistic. >> it is realistic. there's cities in the country that have done this. second of all, if you work for the government, your employer already can't fire you for your opi political opinion. we've got this, it hasn't caused problems in government workplaces, why can't we do this in public workplaces? to protect the first amendment. >> professor, stick around, i'm going to read this aloud. you can respond to it. put it up on the screen. this is patently ridiculous. a law like that would encourage people to proselytize their politics at work. but there are beliefs. i got to go to work not to hear what horrible ideas are rattling around in the skull of the guy next to me. what do you say to angry monkey? >> i think angry monkey is not realizing it's a matter of evenhandedness. if you want to keep that out of the political eye, fine. you can't say blue lives matter that gets you fire

university. -- victims. 1 took place monday at yale university. -- one took place monday at yale university. mandarin chinese speaking protesters were calling for -- if you think the administration's response was too forceful or too weak or just about right, you can call us. caller: to be honest, it doesn't matter what we say to congress and the president, china is going to do what china is going to do. some of the callers mentioning the biden laptop, but hopefully the people will revolt they will probably be suppressed by the military, just like russia. they don't have a diplomatic hand. we buy all of our stuff from them. host: do you think it is our economic ties that keeps the administration from talking more forcefully? caller: i think it is the world. america is the world grocery store and shopping mall. it is not just us. it is everybody. the whole world decides to buy a more expensive product built in your country and that would take some of the economic might away from them. host: brian in massachusetts giving us a call. when it comes to the administration's response to china's covi

david: then you went to medical school at yale? vivek: i did.avid: how did you pick yale as a place to go? you got tired of cambridge? vivek: well, this was also an interesting experience. you know, i actually wanted to go to harvard medical school because i was doing research there when i was in college. and you know, i just decided for myself that that was the right place for me to be. even though i did not have exposure to other institutions. i did not get into harvard medical school and i still remember coming home on this day and opening the letter and seeing that it was a rejection. i was so crushed. i called my father and he said to me i know you are upset about this, but something good will come of this, because you will be able to go somewhere else and get a different kind of exposure. this is going to help you grow. and i was fortunately given a chance to attend yell. -- to attend yale. it became one of the most powerful educational expenses of my life, not to because of what i learned in the classroom, but because of these incredible

the and economic yale universe will of public health professor it to have you a 10 days we see not only people into disneyland, also at one in to when stores boards drastic, abrupt most about china covered policy. ah, yes i, i remembered dollar 1st before the c o c i last time, i guess some people, but we have no concrete number. but this is very soon with sir polio palace. part of the train mission said a circus, his eyes, because already a china come into asa, brought to the extreme mesh. and i and the we have a d, a possible to change the iroquois b as already clearly in t indicate in the reason i come rest. denisha whitaker, china is the strict policy for there is now in it. but there are lots of different bounce in this moment. people are the reasons why do we have evidence that she has a big lives being deed and asked by mina po, being track as the time point. and this is, you might have for the, for the have for the be condemning when we know about them. and they keep telling rating high higher than oh, that's a cautious bar. richard p as part of might be. but as a box has to a n

there was one university that actu actually agreed to accept me that was yale.igned up for an additional year, i wrote to ja yale, i said i need another year, then i spent 5 years, they agreed. in the military in my special unit, i was exposed to cutting edge technology. and i realized i wanted to go to university that had strongest technological edge possible, i apologized to yale, whom i really appreciate and decided to go to m.i.t. to really get to seize the future in terms of technology. it really helped. it was i think a wise decision. mark: when we come back mr. prime minister, i want to ask you about kiah. who is kiah? we'll find out in a modem, we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ mercedes-benz is turning electric... completely... on its head. bringing legendary design... and state-of-the-art technology... to a fully-electric suv. the all-new, all-electric eqb from mercedes-benz. before we begin, i'd like to thank our sponsor, liberty mutual. they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. and by switching, you could even save $652. thank you,

you can imagine that's one of oworking-class black person growing up in new haven in the shadow of yale, the right be some resentment about four per family, there for a new position was inspiring and in fact, her father really read the privilege of the young men that he served tat yale as a chef, into himsel. and the parents thought of themselves as the father in particular as superior. they were part of the british empire and proud about and they were ambitious in their own way and yes, constance baker motley was a young girl and she was not expected to go very far however, she was incredibly intelligent and fishes and two teachers who introduced her to the work of wb devoid it james robert johnson, she decided pretty early on this wanted to be a warrior and when she told her family and friends about this, they said that you must be crazy, women don't get anywhere in thewe law. i know she was able to attend college and then law school because she gave a talk at a social club, is a big club in new haven which happen to be attended by clarence blakely who was a graduate of yale and a wea

yale university professor timothy snyder will join us next.ian living with diabetes, fingersticks can be a real challenge. that's why i use the freestyle libre 2 system. with a painless, one-second scan, i know my glucose numbers without fingersticks. now, i'm managing my diabetes better, and i've lowered my a1c from 8.2 to 6.7. take the mystery out of managing your diabetes and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free at freestylelibre.us ( ♪♪ ) (snorting) (clattering) (frustrated grunt) i need some sleep. (groaning) (growling) (silence) (sigh, chuckle) if you struggle with cpap, you should check out inspire. inspire. sleep apnea innovation. learn more and view important safety information at inspiresleep.com. giving tuesday, giving tuesday, giving tuesday. giving tuesday is a global effort that encourages people to do good. this year when you choose shriners hospitals for children, you're chosen kids like me and me and me. this year please support shriners hospitals for children because when you do, you're not just giving to the hospita

i was supposed to have a life in london, as a matter of fact, when i left yale, and something happenedy sort of... and in monuments and so on is not... it is part of me, but not the main part, not the... it is more like following the star, following my own path, but you didn't want to use any influence you might have had to help advance the civil rights movement by staying in the united states? well, i married a frenchman. i was a runaway bride. they chuckle i was a runaway bride. any regrets? we went to paris for the weekend. and the man i married was one of the great photographers of the world. that's marc riboud, the late french photographer. and he sort of opened up a whole new universe to me, which was international, which was... ..had nothing to do with america or europe or africa, but had to do with everything. and so i became this kind of you know, explorer, whatever, that i had started in egypt on my own with him, which lasted 20 years. so he opened up a whole new world for you. but you always maintained this interest in monuments, as you said, and i want to ask you about the

meredithe mcnamara is an assistant professor of pediatrics who specializes in adolescent medicine at yale school of medicine. thank you so much for your insights and for your time. meredithe: thankou so much for having me. john: as the new dominant covid variant called bq-1 emerges, scientists are looking beyond traditional methods to track its spread. the newest tool in their arsenal -- wastewater. special correspondent cat wise traveled to california, one of the first states to test wastewater for covid. cat: every day, more than 100 million gallons of wastewater flows into this treatment facility in santa clara county, california. it is the largest in the san francisco bay area, serving more than one million residents in silicon valley. the sewage spilling -- spewing out from the tanks, something most people want to avoid. but stanford university environmental and civil engineering professor alexandria sees a public health old mine. -- gold mine. >> can we look at all the samples together? cat: just weeks after one of the first coronavirus cases in the country was confirmed here in san

in many ways it is as if we are holding the yale symposium again for a bigger crowd at a fancier venue with better food. on the surface at least not much else has changed. but on this happy occasion i must ask, is there more to this story? are we ready to consider the tough questions? do we care about debate as we say we do? if so what do the critics say? is there more to the federalist society than meets the eye? what do we really do? after 40 years i decided it was time to look harder and investigate this secretive and mysterious network that critics charge has captured the federal judiciary including the supreme court of the united states. so i researched the topic. and what i've found exceeded my wildest expectations. i quickly discovered that i should not waste my time that tending the thousands of public events, hundreds of students and lawyers chapters across the country nor should i bother with many volumes of the harvard journal, the back issues of the federalist society review, that youtube videos and podcasts, the pages of information on the society website. the critics expl

this is dan muni, yale on you jordan, atlanta. thank you, you need yale roger. last with a bit of was to be there said the school. it algebra. these are the money is in the morning. there are 2 other artists than your its crew. lord salvatore, from naples and jeremy from peru socio was eyes use one on a lien sheet. catching fishing, quantum bassy now door shooter. these regardless was due to a steady daughter. naturally. diane oh, you owe money until you get the 20 estimate. as soon as you increase young rather the industry won't proceed and they won't forget that maybe they can noise hamilton . $32.00 colonia get de la d. j. you me st. oh, new wisdom. all the one that they will been side. elena adel. ah, it is. or you can see the artists painting a portrait of a peruvian peasant woman to symbolize a multi polar world with latin america. as one of each centers of power a media is a student from cheer in. his last name is pronounced in the french way with a silent t of on day. he's a rebel and a romantic who's been studying russia since he was 10 years old. you t

and i was fortunate to be able to attend yale. became one of the most powerful educational experiences of my life. not just from what i learned in the classroom, but the incredible relationships that i built in this community that i was a part of. david: have you ever seen the admissions officer from harvard medical school and told him that he missed on the two-time surgeon general? dr. murthy: no, i haven't. but i know that there is a degree of randomness to the admissions process, and i always tally on people now are going to school that you should never assume that whether or not you get into a school is a measure of your work and your value because again, having now served on the committee, i know that there is a degree of randomness. there are people who don't get in and that is just the way it is. david: many people in your class went into something important, private equity. you were never attended by that? -- tempted? dr. murthy: i was interested in a lot of things. after i finished my residency, i ended up taking some tim

and i was fortunately given a chance to attend yell. -- yale.t became one of the most powerful educational expenses of my life, not to because of what i learned in the classroom, but because of these incredible relationships that i was a part of and still feel i am a part of many years after. david: have you ever seen at the admissions officer from harvard medical school and told him he missed on the two-time surgeon general? dr. murthy: no, i have not. but there is a degree of randomness to the admission processes that i always tell people that when they're going to school. you should never assume that whether or not you get into a school or not is a measure of your worth and your value, because again, having served on admissions committees, i do there is a degree of randomness. there are good people who do not get in and that is just the way it is. david: many people in your class harvard went into something awesome, called private equity. you were never tempted by that? dr. murthy: well, you know, i was interested in a lot of things, david go

well, six years after i graduated from yale law school, i'd been a lawyer for six years. i by then i became a citizen in 2016. unfortunate year. but i felt very grateful. 22 years after i first landed here. so by that time, i a citizen, i was a lawyer. i've been arguing court for for years. my supervisor calls me and who's this office and this was a supervisor that had seen me stand up in court, had seen me counsel clients, had seen me develop case strategy from the ground up. he calls me into his office. and the minute i look at him, i know coming because i've seen it a million times before. and he says this brief is remarkably well written. who did you copy from? and i had some very, very choice words for him that i will not repeat. i quit that job a few months later and that was when i had it. i have played your game for far too long. i'm going to be me. i'm not to make myself smaller because it fits in your vision of me. i'm not going to make myself smaller to fit in that box that i was trapped in before i could understand what was happening. and that is the reality o

he puts them off and eventually turned them down because he wants to go to yale. he goes to yell without promise of entry into lost about because he has a job at the athletic department and then petitions the law school for entry which eventually earned. >> very good. on another light spirited one, want to bring up chevy chase. gerald ford is spoofed a little bit on saturday night live opting not to show any clips today, just a couple of things, clumsy and so forth. was that just unfair? is that sort of a hazard of being a president and being under the microscope? is there any truth to saturday night live's take on president ford? >> there is a grain of truth in any character. any good character. i met think chevy chase was good at character. i will say that ford laughed it off. i will say also that got under ford's skin. he was arguably the most accomplished athlete to ever occupy the oval office. as you pointed out, three offers to play professional football. an unnatural just about any sport he picked up. he had bad knees because he played football party in ope

joe and freeman is a professor of history at university of yale. war. thanks for watching, velshi, i'll be back here tomorrow morning normal time eight to 10 am eastern with don trump teasing that 2024 campaign announcement next week. i will talk to people who know him well, his niece mary trump, and his former personal attorney and fixer, michael cohen. he has long maintained that despite what trump says, cohen doesn't believe he is actually going to run for president again. we will see if the developments of this last week have changed michael's opinion. states where right where you are, alex witt reports with my great friend. this begins right after this quick break. this begins right after this quick break. quick break. and leon... the first of them all. three generations, who all bank differently with chase. leon's saving up for his first set of wheels... nice try. really? this leon's paying for his paint job on the spot... and this leon, as a chase private client, he's in the south of france, taking out cash with no atm fees. that's because t

. >>> the yale educated lawyer who runs the oath keepers is expected back on the stand on monday in his seditious conspiracy trial. stewart rhodes says his group brought weapons to the washington, dc, area, in case an antifa mob tried too drag trump out of the white house and trump asked for help. his testimony was emotional but surreal. >> elmer stewart rhodes iii took the stand and seemed to be his own character witness at the very beginning. he was clearly trying to impart to the jury his kinder, softer, jenltd letter side after the weeks of this jury hearing the opposite, often violent, angry political rhetoric from rhodes, whether it was in text messages or signal messages or only some sort of app. also they heard secret recordings of him talking about all manner of things in a violent way. they saw some of the words he used, talking about a civil war coming and bloody battles might have to ensue to stop president-elect biden from being able to take office at the time in the lead-up to the january 6th capitol attack and even after the attack, but rhodes on the stand put on a big sh

yale and harvard law schools are abandoning the u.s. news rankings. the ranks have come to influence application decisions, financial aid, and career paths for countless students. the dean of l.a. -- of yale law says it gives the wrong incentives and stands in the way of progress. kumasi: you can get into the hallway -- the holiday spirit today with starbucks because it is red cup date. if you order today, you get a reusable red cup. it includes any orders you place on the app and starbucks delivery. on top of cutting on waste, you also get a tencent discount on the drinks with the red cup and a 25 bonus stars reward. that is an incentive. reggie: i need to bring it in after and then i get $.10 off? kumasi: oh. reggie: you know they are not going to refill that cup. they stopped doing that. kumasi: they say just reuse it on your own. we still have hours. reggie: we still have it. jobina: you still have yours from a year? reggie: at least two, maybe three. kumasi: i like that cup. it brings me joy. reggie: it does. kumasi: they had the paper ones that

beginning of his coming back, his grandfather and his values as he sees themment and that plays out yaleool and early years working for then attorney general dan forth of missouri. finally he ends up voting for and working for reagan. and that's his journey back. we tell that story and it's a complicated story both in the book and in the film. but then once he becomes a public conservative black man and he's attacked by the media and battles with the left and that reaches a peak or a first peak, at least, his confirmation hearing and then today on the court. and as we tell that story, this story in the film and the book or i should say we let clarence thomas tell that story. >> and you refer to that in the book as the radical years. >> yeah. >>, but you also bring up the theme or he brings up the theme of circumstances controlling you rather than you controlling circumstances and that's something to be avoided he says. >> well, i think that, you know, what he -- i think he would say that he was left by having this core upbringing by his grandfather and these nuns. he would not have been

as ella may be somewhere to play almost a little while yale, a muffled fountain crest, there it is. i might say is sound is tardy exam after much, we're better city. it's yeah, we will buy your i what all this is esther thing it off i in a bit 0 to nursing. that was a live was doing her was really for. yeah. all seem a thing. the only thing that i in the emotion of the next in and out in a with today's games are really important because it's an option for these girls i, they're all on troll. i'm, we're selecting, we're looking for 12 girls to travel to dublin to try and qualify for the olympics . there's just so much a pencil. if you make a mistake, don't drop your head. okay. and but just count. i'll put you for it. oh, oh. oh oh i goes, i'm not going to beat around the bush and it was actually really embarrassing. i'm not expecting us to be perfect, but i am expecting that you can still make a tickle like a you can still use your voice. you can still ketchel high book from pickle, because if we don't talk, that's what happens. simple little things like to folly, not clearing the b

but paul, that yale dean said in her statements, one of their complaints was there's too much emphasisat parade that gives away the game there's probably an adapting admissions strategy here ahead of the supreme court ruling. think that would be a big mistake. say you are a first generation college student and you had only an okay gpa per if you have a great l sat it helps to get your chances to get into law school perceived as an equalizer i'm not sure these are going to effect. spate kyle, some global professors and deans wrote to the bar association's and do not do this. because if you do not rely on tester going to fall back on grade point averages which know are highly inflated. and other measures that are less objective than the test. >> yes in the same was true in their schools think about the sat there's a report out of california they concluded the sat was a leveler because people who are not in great school districts in rural areas on people who are in really elite areas the one thing you can used to compare them one -- one is a test score on the sat or the lsat. i find this