for example, yandex has managed to stay away from the government the last 18 years. no government involvement. putin has recently visited their campus. it was just probably before the election. he wanted to show that his -- he's in-touch with the younger audience, with the geeks. >> what does russia need to do, or what do we need to do in san francisco, to repair relations? i'm not talking about between governments or after the election, but between investors and russian companies or yourself and american companies, how can we repair that? >> i think it comes through better understanding of who are the people who interfered with the elections, or the people who run the troll factories and russian engineers. in russia -- so russian phycology, mentality, is always, you are against the system. since the soviet years. why russians cheat at school so much, because the school is the system. that's not why i got distinction. >> i didn't know that. interesting. >> it's always been against the system. being a hacker is actually a very good thing. >> right. >> it is like being