the debaters are david callahan and yaron brook. this is just over an hour and half. >> good evening, everyone. thank you for coming out tonight. i am the program director, part and this is part of our series of debates on principles presented by demos and the ayn rand institute. the topic of tonight's debate is government, what is its proper role, and it features david callahan on demos and yaron brook of the ayn rand center. it is moderated by attorney john mckay g i want to mention a few events coming up to our series. a timely novel set in the great depression. making the case for a carbon tax. and local activists who ask what is the economy for any way. also coming up is a physicist, the newly formed watershed opera, a performance of "miracle on 34th street," and a school musical collaboration between the bush took book club and the seattle rock orchestra. all that is happening in the next two weeks. if you want to stay on top of what is going on, find out on townhallseattle.org. the best way is to become a member. it provides

one question for yaron. how is your understanding of the role of government deal with what economists callnegative externalities', which is simply pollution, the danger of global climate change in the world? and for david, it is a question about democrats who seem to join so eagerly in waging war for the purpose of gathering resources in the world because we realize we're running out of everything. and finally, if i could ask mr. mckay, to include you so you will not be left out -- >> you are very kind. >> one of the issues i have understood the courts are doing, related to the role of government, is ruling that if we go to war, that is a political issue, and make no judgment about whether the war is legal or illegal despite the fact that our supreme court justice jackson said that initiating a war of suppression is a crime. that should last the three of you for under an hour. [laughter] >> thank you for the questions. i think our speakers are who people came to see tonight, but i think that the courts have

>> i think that yaron said he believed in voluntary cooperation among free people. that is what we have in the united states. not as much as we would like because there is too much wealth and power in hands of a tiny elite who are using that to have a large voice in society, but together, we are making decisions that have actually made us a lot richer. we have become a much wealthier society of the last seven years in part because of a proactive role -- 70 years in part because of the pro-active role of government to enable us to build more wealth, invest in human capital and invest in our physical capital. >> must be choose between freedom and slavery? >> i do not think that slavery is on the table here. nobody is talking about slavery. the closest thing we have come to slavery in this country is when we had slavery, and it was slavery that was an institution run by the free market, unchecked by government. [boos] >> so, we have raised the question of freedom, the question of slavery. now the question of revolution. >> let me talk about slavery. clearly, slavery is

>> i think that yaron said he believed in voluntary cooperation among free people. tiny elite who are using that to have a large voice in society, but together, we are making decisions that have actually made us a lot richer. we have become a much wealthier society of the last seven years in part because of a proactive role -- 70 years in part because of the pro-active role of government to enable us to build more wealth, invest in human capital and invest in our physical capital. >> must be choose between freedom and slavery? >> i do not think that slavery is on the table here. nobody is talking about slavery. the closest thing we have come to slavery in this country is when we had slavery, and it was slavery that was an institution run by the free market, unchecked by government. [boos] >> so, we have raised the question of freedom, the question of slavery. now the question of revolution. >> let me talk about slavery. clearly, slavery is wrong and it is the government's job to make sure it does not happen. i agree about the civil war. i think we should have gone t

one question for yaron. i did not get your last name. how does your understanding of the role of government deal with what economists call negative externalities, which is simply pollution, the danger of global climate change in the world? and for david, it is a question about democrats who seem to join so eagerly in waging war for the purpose of gathering resources in the world because we realize we're running out of everything. and finally, if i could ask mr. mckay, to include you so you will not be left out -- >> you are very kind. >> one of the issues i have understood the courts are doing, related to the role of government, is ruling that if we go to war, that is a political issue, and make no judgment about whether the war is legal or illegal despite the fact that our supreme court justice jackson said that initiating a war of aggression is a crime. that should last the three of you for under an hour. >> you can go now. [laughter] >> thank you for the questions. i think our speakers are who people came to see tonight, but i think t

it features david callahan of demos and yaron brook of the ayn rand center.ated by john mckay. coming up, naiomi prinse with a novel set in the great depression. a case for the carbon tax. and what is the economy for anyway? also coming up is a physicist, the newly-formed watershed opera, a radio theater performance of "miracle on 34th street," and a collaboration between the bushwick book club in seattle rock orchestra. all of that is

it features david callahan of demos and yaron brook of the ayn rand center.y john mckay. coming up, naiomi prinse with a novel set in the great depression. a case for the carbon tax. and what is the economy for anyway? also coming up is a physicist, the newly-formed watershed opera, a radio theater performance of "miracle on 34th street," and a collaboration between the bushwick book club in seattle rock orchestra. all of that is happening in the next two weeks. it is typical for town hall. if you want to stay in touch, you can find out more at our web site. the best way is to become a member. membership starts at just $35. it provides a discount on books, tickets, and more. best of all, it gives you a feeling you are part of everything we do here, over 350 events a year. we are a member-supported organization. you can pick up a membership card in the lobby or sign up online. tonight's debate will be moderated by a seattle native john mckay, who grew up on capitol hill and attended seattle prep high school and the university of washington. he served as u.s. a

i think there might be common ground, at least in your first element and yaron's first element.int, frankly. you said it was to address the question of capitalism. i took it to mean that government should manage capitalism. am i right? >> absolutely. >> what is the disagreement in terms of the protection element between you and yaron? >> i believe in a more expansive role, as do most americans, for government protecting us from a whole bunch of things, not just from street criminals, not just from foreign terrorists. frankly, whether or not i lose money because my house is burglarized or i lose money because my financial investor rips me off because the securities and exchange commission has been downsized doesn't really matter to me. i've still lost the money. whether i die because i'm murdered or whether i die in a work place accident because my employer is cutting corners doesn't matter. i want protection, as do most americans, from a range of dangers that exist in modern society. >> do americans need to be protected in that way? >> no. so, this is the difference. i view forc