joining me now is yasha mounk from john hopkins school of international studies and brett meyer fromart with you and ask you, do you think there is a connection here or is it a coincidence that so much of the prominent populist leaders that we think of, trump, bolsonaro in brazil, in mexico, now modi in india, seem to have taken a somewhat relaxed attitude cord covid which has often proffered to be a bad mistake. >> no, unfortunately, and tragically, i think there is a connection. part of what populist do is that they distrust science, that they don't like independent institutions. they don't like logic of events to impose on their political preferences and what they want to do in order to be at the center of a narrative and hopefully gain votes. and all of those things have pushed so many poll -- populists in the united states to modi in israel and doubting the science, downplaying the severity of the virus, appearing maskless in public, raising questions about the efficacy of the vaccine in many cases. and unfortunately, so many people around the world are paying the price for that

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