yeltsin, yeah. gorbachev thinks he was faking that he did cut himself in the chest with a pair of scissors, was rushed to the hospital. then gorbachev called another meeting of the moscow communist party to relieve boris yeltsin of his post as master party chief, which he was then. at this meeting, i'm sorry, before this meeting he rang boris yeltsin in the hospital and said i want you at this meeting this evening. >> host: come from the sick bed. >> guest: come from the sick debt and boris yeltsin by his account said i am not allowed by the doctors to leave my bed and gorbachev said that's okay, we will look after that. the doctor came along and injected him with a sedative and some anti-specimen agent and he was taken by his bodyguard by car to the inquisition of which it was really an inquisition and he was suffering hours of abuse from gorbachev and other members of the central committee. this was a committee meeting of about 300. and he never forgave gorbachev for that. >> host: given his healt

yeltsin. it was true what he describes in his own memoirs. he was being driven through texas and said stop here. i want to have a look of this grocery store. he was still a little old soviet mentality that foreigners were only shown what the host country want them to see and he thought he was being conned by being shown other aspect of american life. >> host: he was going to take them by surprise. >> guest: he was to use an irish expression got smacked. something like air dryer to record prices. there were all sorts of different varieties of cheese and meat. from there to miami, he turned to his aide and said that is why the iron curtain was there. to keep us from learning how good things were in the west. >> host: he was ready when younger people would come in and say all at once -- >> guest: there were big bets on his instinct. very impulsive politician but was very courageous when he thought he should do something, he did it and he reckoned that the soviet union should end and that should b

yeltsin. that's where gorbachev humiliated him earlier. gorbachev of course for once had the upper hand over yeltsin because -- >> host: still held the previous. >> guest: he said no, i'm not going over there. the whole thing was sort -- sort it out to make we didn't witness the documents, the suitcase be brought over to yeltsin. interestingly, this moment not only symbolized but in effect meant the end of the sub union and the superpower was to be recorded on television, but now it was only seven channels walking away with the chairman, and they handed over to the other, yeltsin that the only witnesses for the cnn crew who had been their film in gorbachev's resignation. they had packed up all the equipment, there in the car -- >> host: they couldn't get any pictures? pictures? >> guest: no, they had stopped. they saw these generals exchanged this object which was clearly the nuclear suitcase. >> host: extraordinary moment. in reading the book i have to say, i was so struck by the variety of s

>> yeltsin. gorbachev things he was faking but he did cut himself in the chest with a pair of sis -- scissors and rushed to hospital. and then gorbachev called a meeting of the communist party to relieve yeltsin. before this meeting, he rang boris yeltsin in hospital and said i want you at this meeting this inning. >> come from the sick bed. >> and boris yeltsin, by his account, said i'm not allowed by the doctors to leave my bed. and gorbachev says, that's okay. we'll look after that. and the doctor came along and injected him with a sedative and some antispasm agents and he was taken by his body guard by car to the inquisition, which it was, really, and he was made to suffer four hours of abuse from gorbachev and other members of the central committee. this is a central committee meeting of about 300. and he never forgave gorbachev for that. and this -- >> given his health conditions he did not push back at that moment. that was not a time when he actually was physically able to get up on the t

yeltsin respected him because he spoke out on issues that yeltsin was passionate about, opening up the pages of history. that sort of thing. >> host: gorbachev -- got a number of the ideas for glass most. >> guest: a potential issue -- i feel that yok of got too much presence for introducing perestroika. no doubt he was powerful figure besides gorbachev but at this meeting, in the kremlin leader would bring in trays, cognac and fraud,. at one point, from midday to 9:00, at 6:00, gorbachev left the meeting to take a call from john major who is prime minister of the united kingdom and arranged to called the commiseration of what was happening. they noted that -- [talking over each other] >> host: drinking with yields on all afternoon. >> guest: very soon person was. it with a thrilling day for mikhail gorbachev. for his nemesis -- to hand over -- and also deciding whether he should have two cards and staff. it was a pretty emotional day for gorbachev. >> host: you have three versions of that. you say that it was friendly and cordial. you have gorbachev saying it was businesslike and thes

to yeltsin. interestingly, this moment not only symbolized, but in effect, meant the end of the soviet union as a superpower was to be recorded on television, but now it was only a set of generals walking away with the suitcase, and they hand it over to yeltsin. and the only witnesses were the cnn crew who had been there filming gorbachev's resignation speech live, and they packed up the equipment -- >> host: and they couldn't get any pictures of it. >> guest: no. they were stopped in the corridor, hold on, don't go any further, and they saw these generals exchange the object which was, clearly, the suitcase. >> host: intrornd moment. in reading the book, i have to say i was so struck by the variety of sources, memoirs, diaries and others, aides, it sounds -- in the book you credit one of the op aides for yeltsin -- top aides for yeltsin as give you an element minute by minute, blow by blow or in journalism they call it a tick tock, and on gorbachev's side, the press secretary did the same kind o

mr yeltsin has just handed me a summary of a cabinet meeting. but i haven't read it yet well go ahead and read it dan. they convinced him that the only way he could enter the kremlin was by tearing down the soviet union broader but that was the only supposedly legal way of getting rid of gorbachev and yeltsin craved to be head of state to occupy the very office that have been held first by lenin and then by the general secretary stalin. the seventh of december nine hundred ninety one. boris yeltsin a rives in minsk the purpose of his visit has to negotiate economic ties between russia and bella reuss two republics that was still part of the u.s.'s up. russia and belarus have been friends for ages. of course for decades we had this artificial ideal for one nation being a big brother and other nations being little brothers. but that is over now. it is here that the parties decided to invite the ukrainian leader to join them for their first ever discussion of the common future without go but off the yes to the point was obviously to deliberate in e

>> yeltsin. gorbachev think his was faking but he did cut himself on the chest with a pair of scissors and rushed to hospital. then gorbachev called another meeting meeting of the moscow communist party to relieve boreis yeltsin as his post of commune party chief which he was then. before this meeting he rang boris yeltsin in hospital and said i want you at these meeting this evening. >> come from your sick bed. >> and yeltsin, by hit account, said, i'm not allowed by the doctors to leave my bed. gorbachev, said, that's okay. we'll look after that. and the doctor came long and injected him with a sedative, some antispasm agents, and he was taken by his body guard, by car to the inquisition, which it was an inquisition, and he was made to suffer four hours of abuse from gorbachev and other members of the central committee. this is a central committee meeting of about 300. and he never forgive gorbachev for that. and -- >> given his health conditions he did not push back at that moment. that was no

much so here we have yeltsin was blushing slightly. let me speak officers gave it should you know we reporters got ready to records but korsakoff head of security covered the camera and said no filming but he said i'm warning you that if one frame compromising boris yeltsin is published you'll have to deal with me we need to know and then he said he pushed. the residents employees stayed there for another twenty four ls to bring everything to warda the warden stepped on must to see who returned home depressed silver for sure as a whole it was very painful. we could already feel that the disintegration of the soviet union was a real blow to us all it was uncertain and frightening. stepan much to see ok and his colleagues watched the end of the story on t.v. screens in less than a months when the soviet union flag was lowered on the kremlin for good. events seen on t.v. during the decade that followed proved even more dramatic. with those who are very hard times. all that happened part is greatly. today most employees of the viscously re

it was clear that yeltsin had just come from a social function. visit was carefully prepared for everyone realized that the outcome of the talks as a whole depended very much on his mood. i was standing at the front door to the residence and i held this part of them open. i greeted him. and he was led to his. work there he rested until it was supper time. the verdict on the soviet union was pronounced that same night during a joint supper on the ground floor near the main entrance there was a buffet whole. everyone gathered in this hall ate in the evening for supper. it lasted until eleven pm. afterwards they all retired to their rooms. i'm not sure if everyone was the same everyone drank as much as they could. and then he wanted to went to the song. sternness les just gave each still has a caricature in his home of the buffet meals and events in viscously that followed . this caricature assures the atmosphere of the time this is a very good hour. hunters while having a rest exchange opinions some of them are controversial the artist had a great s

yeltsin's russia's challenge the soviet you know there was a hole that was a double just one event up the whole globe process for nine hundred ninety nine one in the sense of it you can see the dismantlement of the u.s.s.r. . as a kind of an expression of russian nationalism as an assertion of russian national attention now the question i asked myself is yeah i agree with stephen that there was a feasible norm coleman the stilton that if soviet union maybe even the mco but chosen a ship but if survive to challenge of russian nationals the mafia has to be a question about ok i can see when you're being asked a question go ahead. what i think it's a terrific question and i think putin is trying to give us the answer today with his proposal for a eurasian union now notice what's changed in the last twenty years you're absolutely right peter and the others mentioned this that in one thousand nine hundred ninety one the russian leadership held led by yeltsin felt burdened by the economic subsidies it was giving the central asia and the other republics to day the putin leadership thinks tha

the way this aggression go you've mentioned the two people we just saw yeltsin and gorbachev many think that it was the power struggle between those two major political figures that caused the collapse of the soviet union however people claiming to have a deeper understanding of the process say that the root cause was different. course some also say that the collapse was orchestrated by the ninety's stay. it's with a key reason some people believe it was money so they see the country daid economy wise. it can they do agree with that. you know i can't agree with that let me give you a simple example from our time america's foreign debt in dollars and mainly in treasury bonds of course because they don't print actual bills like big seeds its g.d.p. . they are only surviving on credit. the u.s.s.r. had a budget deficit since around one thousand sixty six but then deficit was not properly reported to the supreme council so no measures were taken. at the same time lots of money was going towards armaments and we armaments. so the deficit was not allowed to exceed the growth of people's savin

political and economic reforms then there was the oldest coup and then the final blow came from the yeltsin crowd joke and. the meeting between the three leaders of russia ukraine and belarus on december eighth brought the famous bella vision accords and established the commonwealth of independent states but by that time signs of breakdown were already ubiquitous the most amazing was one thousand nine hundred ninety or in one thousand nine hundred one the u.s.s.r. had accumulated a set of serious problems there were attempts to repair the system which started after one thousand nine hundred five and failed the one after another just imagine driving a car and trying to fix the engine and the wheels while it's moving twenty years on progress and positive change have certainly benefited some in the new russia but clearly not all according to recent opinion poll by the levada center more than fifty percent of russians say they regret the break up and think it could have been prevented. stephen cohen i'm going to go to you first in and new york you know it's over over the last two weeks or so i'

very interesting both the communists yeltsin and the rule and the communist party seized known russian nationalism to use against gorbachev the communist party demanded its own russian communist party which had not existed and you know since seized on this russian parliament and its sovereignty issues so you had a picture movement against gorbachev both claiming to represent you know i wanted it in reality they didn't represent nationalism ok richard you want to jump in there go ahead well i mean i talking about the situation today i mean to russian foreign minister you just issued in an outrageous statement that once again that the baltic countries voluntarily joined the soviet union and that conjures up the image of a right wing coup in the soviet you in a russia today and that's a possibility that could have happened in russia back in one nine hundred ninety one and it's very very disturbing because it doesn't make any sense the baltic countries are like they're like. canaries and the mind ok the toxic. threats that are made from moscow these are small states they don't have a great

he wants to go down in history as the father of russian democracy in the west we attribute it to yeltsin but that's not true now if. democracy flourishes in russia one day and stabilizes russia will go to gorbachev will go down as the greatest reformer in russian history if democracy falters and fails in russia and he'll go down in history as another tragic russian former he knows that and that's why his blood pressure about what's going on in russia is rising on his eightieth birthday or a maybe he's just protecting his legacy here ok i was going to go to you anyway go ahead life the thing is here is that maybe some people attribute democracy to one leader or another but most russians don't attribute democracy to either yeltsin or got a bunch of go ahead. i would just like to make one point i think that gorbachev was actually responsible for peaceful disintegration of the soviet union and i think this is a very important point especially when we see what's happening in the middle east so that would be my first point and secondly i would argue that russian democracy is proceeding on cour