further about what people feel, and i'd like to bring in other people, definitely acting captain yolanda williams. i know that captain hart got ahold of the father the next day and had a great conversation with him. but you know, the community today is talking about trust with the police. and we need to be about having -- in the spirit of procedural justice, we need to be about having a further conversation. i think none of this would do us justice if we walked away and said that is that. i offer that up. >> supervisor ronen: i appreciate that. i am personally ready to take you up on that. i don't know about the penas, but what i would say is i clearly have some disappointment. we clearly have some notice of what the hearing was about. i introduced the hearing request, what, five months ago, carolyn? i don't know. so it wasn't as if there was notice of what we would be discussing today, so it feels like there could have been more information provided at this hearing today about what the officers' state of mind was about why they made certain decisions. and again, as i said many, many times, this