let me take youon avoya. i'm gog showou sething. i'm goingo take you some where. i'll make an experience for you and i hope you eoy it. >> charlie: i'll ask a dfere question. oliver, what is it youost want to understand as a scientind as a pson who engages in narrative fo about the act of creating a creativity? i want to undersnd howhe new can me io being. and this -- i want to give a concrete example and it was said earlier about immitation being bad. i think it's essential preliminary to achievemen for example, with a poet like alexander poe. his first puishe poe wer called immitations of english poets and he is first concerned to get the techniqueorto velop the language as you said, richard, and only when it's developed he then infu it with hi -- infuses it with something new. it is i think the spontaneous sponneity and velty. >>hen we re at yale - >> charl: you andrichard? >> yes. we unabashedly woed tough other people work. you could ways tell who richard was into because all the pages were stuck together with paint and he would work through satin and everybo