he tried to get us out of yugoslavia in the 1970s and did not succeed until 1984. but i had a chance even though i was young, to observe how socialism does not work in person. john: you are talking about communism. today's democratic socialists say we couldn't want that. we just want denmark. >> there is rhetorical flourishing going on here. denmark is not what bernie and his followers say it is. the prime minister of denmark objected to denmark being referred to as democratic asocialist country just back in november. he was quite upset about it. he point out denmark as a strong market economy. if you look at what denmark has been doing, that's true. john: they have less regulation, fewer labor rules, it's easier to hire and fire. >> all correct. they are ranked extremely close to the united states in terpt of the index of economic freedom. john: you say income redistribution never works. they say, you know, in denmark and europe, the people are closer together. it's a nicer site, bert for everybody. >> they really are not speaking the truth. the fact is that in de

we had yugoslavia. we have the soviet union itself, but the result of all this, state failures come is that the number of states have multiplied. it's not that states have become less important. it suggest we have a different states. and this is what is happening in the middle east, now in the lamont. i don't think i this is going to last as a territorial state but i think we will have not one but two states and probably not going to -- when getting at is we do not seem to be capable at this point to go beyond the concept of the state as a way of organizing human societies essentially. in other words, all these organizations that you talk about did exist, but we still seem to hang on collectively to this concept of the state. you care to, you know, to react to that? >> i think in a way, yes, of course, but the expectation, so the global level if you look at this as an international relations exercise, yes, of course states are the going to. there isn't any other way that there's a little bit of the inte

when part of yugoslavia, this region was reasonably productive. now it's anything but.ential investors are frightened away by corruption and political uncertainty. pero slavnic, a former major in the bosnian serb army, is campaigning for better benefits and pensions for military veterans. financial hardship contributed to his divorce. three of his sons are unemployed. and he is weary of politicians manipulating public opinion. >> ( translated ): i think we are now further away from being together without borders than just after the war. when foundations are flawed, you become skeptical about everything, including the hand that reaches for you from the other side. we are constantly asking is this an honest hand? we have a lot of problems in the area of trust. >> reporter: this was the perfect occasion for the bosnian serb leader milorad dodik to address the issue of reconciliation. of all the dignitaries present, his words would have been most significant. because for many muslims, banja luka represents the lion's den. he was due to make a key note speech,but he clearly

to say about thirtysomething years ago as a graduate student, i was traveling in what was then yugoslavia. i kept a journal and as i was studying political economic system and we wanted to understand socialist economics and what was going on with reform in the social systems, so i traveled all over yugoslavia. i kept a journal. i wrote prolifically about it. i wrote articles and so on but one of the things that stand in the journal, i still have it today, it says everybody i talk to hates everyone else. and i said, this country is going to blow skyhigh when tito died. so that's kind of the gray rhino. anybody who was present there could see, could feel that this is a country only held together by the force of one man. by 1980 of course he died and then we had bosnia, all these horrors and terrible situations but the gray rhino was so apparent and yet nobody talked about it. so to me that is the epitome of what michele is going to talk about today. so i would like to start may be with you telling us, defined the gray rhino, didn't have to do that tell us how you found it. >> sure. and had

the first candle will be lit by anna gross of romania and .heodora of yugoslavia as a teenager, annabor beforeforced liberation in 1945. after theodora's parents were sent to concentration camps, she and her brother were hidden throughout the war by their non-jewish uncle and other neighbors. theodora are museum volunteers today. [no audio] >> the second candle will be lit by joseph. born in poland, he survived incarceration in several labor and concentration camps, including auschwitz, as well as a death march. he was liberated by american camps from a slave labor where germans were manufacturing b-2 bombers. [no audio] >> the third candle will be lit .y kurt of vienna following the deportation and murder of his father and grandfather, five-year-old kurt and his mother were deported, where they survived until liberation. [no audio] >> thank you, senator cardin. i would now like to ask senator don buyer of virginia to stand don beyer of virginia. the fourth candle will be lit by shoshana rose of poland. following germany's invasion of poland, shoshana's father smuggled the family to

so i traveled all over yugoslavia. i kept a journal. i wrote prolifically about it. i wrote some articles and so on, but one thing stands out in that journal, i still have it today. it said: everybody i talk to hates everyone else. and i said this country -- [laughter] is going to blow sky high when tito dies. so that's kind of the gray rhino. anybody who was present there could see, could feel that this was a country only held together by the force of one man. but 1980, of course, he died, and then we've had bosnia, we had all these horrors and terrible situations. but that gray rhino was so apparent, and yet nobody be talked about it. so to me, that is the epitome of what michele's going to talk about today. so i'd like to start maybe with you telling us, defining the gray rhino, and then after you do that tell us how you found it. >> sure. and i have to say praise from jeff is really something else, because he's quite an accomplished writer himself. so thank you for that. so the gray rhino is something that's really big. it's coming at you, it's got a big horn, it

lot of places have argued deal with differences but it can be across the continents with the for yugoslavia to heads of state across the board and tried to capture that is useful for something others as well. but i can't promise you that coming from negotiating with three of the largest marketers of the world you have to believe we on this. [laughter] meets every children noah is daiquiri and adding is my greatest way how to "negotiating the nonnegotiable". [laughter] has specifically to reinforce the point that you are negotiating all the time. but also at home so how should you deal with emotionally charged? at called it is obviously the - - recharged conflict it tears the family apart. the relationship apart. you can avoid a to crucially charge divisive conflicts so of the freddie initial spreadsheet will lead that deals with conflict. baguette it is all the hidden cost as well. ec like a base you have gentleman if we are working together i despise you or you despise me how will our decisionmaking we? good or bad? how much information will he share? it may even be deceptive. how will app

not the eu that has brought about this .appy condition the one opportunity was in the balkans and yugoslaviaomplete mess of it -- vanity.divinity he said this is europe, not america. they made such a hatch of it america had to come in and clear up the mess that was left by europe. i just want to pick up on this point about economic shock. just linking it to this point about young people, i could not agree more. i have three under 30 and i know what they think and what they care about. confidentnstinctively about the future within the european union. it is not just jobs. this is a generation that went through the financial crash, saw this out of university and school, and are we really going to do it again? are we really going to inflict another downturn, another short-term recession for this unproven trade deal that we have no idea what they might look like? so i think these are two very important and very connected things. francine: we are running out of time, so i will ask you all 10 seconds, come the referendum, what people should be thinking about in the booth? nigel: what people should

and things began to fall apart in yugoslavia and our european allies said we want the leadership here. we said, please, have at it. we have had more than enough on our plate. we turned it over to them. they split like a covey of quail. they all went their own way. sometimes that doesn't, wo. sometimes you need leadership from the uniquely preeminent power in the world. people appreciate it when america leads. they carp at us. there is resentment, jealousy. but they want to see us lead and they appreciate it when we do. >> it's interesting. on that point, a couple of things. the burden of leadership and pursuing our interests in the world does require us to continue to have a presence around the world. that presence provides deterrence which is short of conflict which is where we want to be. the presence provides reassurance to allies and friends around the world. that presence, for example, in northeast asia an example of that with respect to the nuclear umbrella is critical in terms of preserving the norms on nonproliferation on the nuclear side. we do have an i are reducible demand,

>> i was in belgrade, former yugoslavia, my wife was from there and we were visiting her family. could lose him. but he said, you michael weatherly? i said, yes. he said, i'm miroslav. he said, you're dinozzo from ncis. >> i said, yes, i am. he said, you're so old! because in serbia, they just have season one. he said, i'm watching you and following you and you're so -- but you're fatter, too! but i love you, dinozzo, i love you so much, but he gets old and fat, huh? i said, well, if you stick around long enough, hopefully, that's what happens. (laughter) >> stephen: well, your last episode is coming up when? >> i don't know. we have this interview with trump. we go head to head with trump. let's take him out. (cheers and applause) >> stephen: megyn kelly is my next guest. >> we were fighting downstairs. very lovely woman. >> stephen: you and megyn kelly were fighting? >> i'm going to take her out. >> stephen: i wouldn't. she's really tough. >> yeah. >> stephen: so what happens? can you tell me how we lose dinozzo? should i be ready to cry or laugh when you need? is it a forever

the one opportunity the eu had to bring peace was in the balkans and yugoslavia.omplete mess of that. in its vanity, remember the eu external foreign affairs spokesman talking about the balkans crisis. he said this is europe's hour. not america's hour. what happened? america had to come in and clear up the mess that was left by europe. carolyn: hold on. i want to pick up on this point of economic shock. and link it to the point about young people. because i think they are related. this point about there being a shock if we were to leave, that is almost consensus on that. even gerald lyons confirms that. and the other thing about young people, i couldn't agree more. i have three of them. i know what they think and what they care about. they are confident about the future within the european union. it is not just jobs. this is a generation that went through the financial crash, saw this out of university and school, and are we really going to do it again? are we really going to inflict another downturn, another short-term recession for this unproven trade deal that

policy makers on whether they should invade the balkans, whether they should land on the coast of yugoslavia and move into hungary and austria in order to preempt the soviet advance. they were convinced what we call the cold war, the confrontation with the soviet union, he was convinced it would start all over again, and indeed by late 1944, british troops had sent troops with communist try to take over the government. roosevelt thinks this is totally appalling. churchill, secretary of state during the russian civil war was actually taking a key role, but not very successfully. he sees himself as taking part in the same role. ultimately, the americans take a benign view of stalin. he tricks and repeatedly over the fate of poland, which was the major issue. this map is rapidly transformed into a map in which soviet forces are in control in eastern europe, and again, that background is not really surprising, the communist governments are in power. eisenhower has become the army chief of staff. as army chief of staff he has to respond to the situation. he is in a very difficult position. the am

from laboratory research and now is working with everybody from civil society groups with former yugoslavia to working with business executives and heads of state across the board to learn from all of those experiences but i can promise that my greatest learning has come up from three of those hardest bargainers of the world you have to believe me on this and it is these guys. they are my children i dunno , if you have beautiful things that look like this they are my greatest learning how you negotiate the non-negotiable but a share this with you to reinforce the point that you are negotiating all the time with conflict at work but also of home so let's jump into the big challenge how should the deal with emotionally charged complex? now hold is obvious. it tears the relationship apart the can't avoid conflict you can avoid commercially charge divisive conflict and the stuff is costly typically on the financial spreadsheet at work there is one of mine that deals with conflict but yet they're all these hidden cost as well using nice but pleasure name? what say we are working together i despi

we have yugoslavia, the soviet union, itself. the result of all this, the states failing, the states have multiplied. it's not that states have become less important. it's just that we have different states come to the surface. and this is what's happening in the -- in the middle east now. in the levant. i don't think isis is going to last as a territorial state, but i think probably we are going to have not one, but two kurdish states that are probably not going to disappear. so what i'm getting at is that we do not seem to be capable at this point to go beyond the concept of the state as a way of organizing human societies essentially. all these organizations that you talk about do exist, but we still seem to hang on, collectively, to this concept of the state. you care to, you know, to -- >> i think in a way, yes, of course, but the expectation -- so at the global level, if you look at this as, you know, as an international relations exercise, yes, of course, states are the coin. i mean, there isn't any other way that -- there

ince the 90s we have yugoslavia. but the result of all these state failures is the nurl of states have multiplied. it's not that states have become less important. it's just that we have different states come to the surface. and this is what's happening in the middle east. now, in the lave ant, i don't think isis is going to last as a territorial state. but i think probably we are going to have not one but two states of that title probably not going to disappear. what i'm getting at is iran seems to be capable to go beyond the concept of the state as a way of organizing human societies. in other words, all these organizations that you talk about do exist but we still don't seem to hang on collectively to the concept of the state. would you care to react to that? >> well, i think in a way yes of course. but the expectation -- so at the global level if you look at this as an international relations exercise. yes, of course rg states are the county. there isn't any other way that there's a little bit of the internationa

economics and what was going on with reform and the socialist systems so i traveled all over yuig -- yugoslavia and one thing that stands in the journal and says, everybody that i talk to hates everyone else . i said this country is going to blow high when tido dies. anyone who was present there could see, could feel that that was a country only held together by the force of one man, in 1980 he died and then we had bosnia and all the horrors and terrible situations, but that gray rhino was so apparent and nobody talked about it. so me to the me that is the apitamy of what michelle is going to talk about. >> sure. he's quite an accomplished writer himself, so thank you for that. the gray rhino is something that's really big. it's coming at you, it has a big horn. it's really dangerous as if you think of the elephant in the room, the big obvious thing that nobody wants to talk about and that we take for granted that nobody is going to go anything about but it's standing still and you get the elephant in the room together with the black swan, a book that came out ten years ago saying that we neede

the first candle will be lit by -- of romania, yugoslavia.d. she survived forced labor before liberation in 1945 your after theodorus bears were sent to concentration camps, she and her brother were hidden throughout the war either non-jewish uncle and other neighbors. both transport and theodora our museum volunteers here today. >> the second candle will be lit by joseph rimmed glass. born in poland, he survived incarceration and several labor and concentration camps, including auschwitz as well as a death march. he was liberated by american troops from a slave labor camp where germans were manufacturing b-2 bombers. >> the third candle would be lit by kurt of vienna. following deportation and murder of his father and grandfather, five year-old curt and his mother were deported where they survived until liberation. >> thank you, senator cardin. i would now like to ask senator donald beyer of virginia to stand by the fourth candle. the fourth candle will be lit by shoshana rose of poland. following germany's invasion of poland, shoshana's fat

war and the horror of iraq and panama the unification of germany in things begin to fall apart in yugoslavia in the european allies said we want the leadership we have had more than enough we turned it over and they split they all went to their own way. sometimes the doesn't work sometimes you need leadership people appreciate it when america leads there is some resentment and jealousy but they want to see us leave and they appreciate it when we do. >> on that point the burden of leadership does require us to continue to have a presence around the world. it provides deterrence it provides reinsurance -- reassurance around the world with respect to the nuclear row but it is critical to preserve the norm so we do have a reducible demand for our presence a real-world and that demand signals is increasing nine degreasing agree have a lot of tools in the toolbox also like collisions but that coalition building is hard work overtime and would not have happened without u.s. leadership will not provide the balance we needed asia there will not the global trade agreements is the burden that we bear a

. >> this map of yugoslavia, and of course it doesn't exist anymore. >> reporter: maps of countries thataren't worth much. for cohen, he realized they were too value to toss. >> i thought what do i need these for? you look at your smartphone. i felt a tightening in my stomach and this emotional reaction and the feeling that it was something, these maps, were things didn't want to dispose of. >> reporter: a lot of people when they hear a specific song, the memories flood back. takes them to a specific time. >> yeah for you? >> yeah. very much so. i was looking at maps of italy. i was a correspondent in italy. suddenly, i was back in sicily. i was in france where i was housed. i was thinking of a particular camembert cheese. maps are pleasurable. gps is not pleasurable. >> reporter: you have a love affair with maps? >> i guess i do. >> reporter: a love affair that for many has not yet come to the end of the road. for "cbs this morning saturday," mark albert on a roadtrip somewhere in nevada. >> i don't miss wrestling with the map in the car, though. >> i have to tell you, i do. i -- like a

conflict or the balkans to keep the peace as the conflict died down and of the statesture of former yugoslavia, you know, i think when that case has been made, the american people have shown themselves quite willing to support that. if you imagine the context here, ,he context is we have achieved we, collectively, have achieved this historic agreement that is going to secure the state of israel long term, and sure its international recognition, legitimacy, peace with its neighbors, ending the occupation, creating a viable palestinian state. i mean, in that context, to ask for a small american commitment to ensure that is successful? i mean, i think this is not a hard strategic case for an american president to make to the american people as a small investment that disproportionately has positive impacts on the future of the region. general allen: well said. ms. flournoy: i would be ready to make that case. moderator: i have one final question i dug out to throw out john and inadi or h questions pier 1 other issue that pops up a fair amount and the dialogue today, concerns nott either tunneling

union and even russia were working together to overcome the divisions and conflicts in the former yugoslaviasince then moscow has decided its interests are better served by working against us, rather than with us. we searched billions of flight combinations to make getting here easy. because the hardest part of any trip, should be leaving. expedia. technology connecting you to what matters. to be taken care of. in good hands? like finding new ways home, car, life insurance obviously, ohhh... but with added touches you can't get everywhere else, like claim free rewards... or safe driving bonus checks. even a claim satisfaction guaranteeeeeeeeeee! in means protection plus unique extras only from an expert allstate agent. it's good to be in, good hands. it takes a lot of work... but i really love it.s. i'm on the move all day long... and sometimes, i just don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost® to get the nutrition that i'm missing. boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to he