my question is for yuval. in our opening remarks you pasted this contrast between a welfare state model and a market model of government. is there not a third model that maybe the conservative reformed conservatives want to think about? what i mean by a third model, one goes to alexander hamilton talks about the american school and henry clay talked about the american system and lincoln who built the continental railroad. was a real fan of clay. teddy roosevelt and parts of fdr effort. ike's efforts. jfk. that use government to do big projects, that had tremendous economic results and, dramatically raised living standards and elevated the middle class? is there not a third model we want to call the american system where the government does have a sort of, not a prominent but a trigger role that does these big projects that has huge effects, good effects on the middle class? >> yeah. would i say, this is what i mean by facilitating the function of society, including of the markets. there is certainly a place fo

for some of those answers i will turn it over. >> let me ask yuval first. before we get too specific policy proposals, conservatives, yuval, agree the government is way too big and too intrusive. so what's the proper role in addressing the anxieties and ambitions of the middle-class? >> first of all, thank you, kate, and aei. i like the we put the question because i think thinking about in terms of the role of government helps us to avoid the trap of starting immediately with the size of government. so basically any up in an argument about how big the liberal welfare state could be which too often is where we've ended up. i think this book shows that a conservative governing vision, which would lead us to a leaner and less costly and more effective government begins with a different idea of what government should be. not just of how much it cost. the core of the idea and the protestants i think is that beyond national defense and public safety, government exist to enable society to better address its problems. which is an important role but a supporting rol