zal, you want to -- >> thank you. well, on pakistan, as i mentioned at the beginning, that was a great source of frustration for me. that we couldn't make more progress with it on dealing with the issue of the sanctuaries that were being developed. and i think at the present time i am uncertain myself as to has pakistan made a strategic decision by people that matter that a reconciliation in afghanistan is a critical or a vital interest of pakistan. there is evidence that the internal situation has deteriorated, the security situation, that extremism and terrorism poses a huge problem for pakistan. 165,000 troops now, pakistani troops, are on the durand line, near the durand line fighting. therefore with a government in afghanistan that is clearly anxious to improve relations with pakistan, i mentioned some of the steps. there's a whole range of others that i did not mention on the economic front, the government, the current government, president ghani in particular has thought about and is open to and actually advoca

zal, you want to -- >> thank you. well, on pakistan, as i mentioned at the beginning that was a great source of frustration for me. that we couldn't make more progress with it on dealing with the issue of the sanctuaries that were being developed. and i think at the present time i am uncertain myself as to has pakistan made a strategic decision by people that matter that a reconciliation in afghanistan is a critical or a vital interest of pakistan. there is evidence that the internal situation has deteriorated, the security situation, that extremism and terrorism poses a huge problem for pakistan. 165,000 troops now, pakistani troops are on the duorond line, near the line fighting. therefore with a government in afghanistan that is clearly anxious to improve relations with pakistan, i mentioned some of the steps. there's a whole range of others that i did not mention on the economic front, the economic front that the current government has thought about and is open to and is actually advocate of increased economic coo

zal?>> i think afghanistan has been lucky to a degree because of the experience in iraq and also the rise of isis isil. in the sense that we have had an experiment almost that, in the case of iraq that both brian and i served in -- ryan. you, too. of course, i forgot you came from iraq, afghanistan. exactly right. so that our total departure of forces and having the office executed cooperation and the embassy follow a series of development that was not good for iraq, not good for us not good for the region. .. i believe that afghanistan with the investment we have made in the building of the security forces in the commitment made that ryan mentioned in chicago the afghan security forces. and with some precedents, that is a success in idea because if you can go from 120,000 in the case of afghanistan iraq it would be a lot more. to a force of 5000, 10000 work with the environment and the afghans so that they truly can manage a security problem. that is a model of success in my view. sure we

>> as zal noted, we were both engaged in afghanistan after the fall of the taliban. i reopened our embassy there in the beginning of january 2002. and i couldn't even land in kabul. the runways were completely inoperative. we had to come in at bagram. ford a river go through miles of devastation to get to what was left of the capital. that perspective left me with a sense that the glass was really at least half full. when i returned subsequently. and then as ambassador in 2011. given the absolute nothing with which the country started, the achievements always seemed to me even greater than the obstacles. it also left me with a deep sympathy, and affinity to the afghan people generally, and to president karzai in particular we certainly had our rough innings with him. but given what he went through, absolute nothing with which he started, and what he was able to oversee, i think history and i hope this country is going to look at him in a more kindly light than maybe the case now. so we fast forward to my time there. the achievements that occurred on my watch for whic

in zal's first tour it was a time when everyone thought the taliban was defeated. there was note neon sign that you had to be done by 2006 because the war would start, but by 2005 we were able to analyze what was happening. and to predict with a great measure of assurance that the insurgency was going to get bad and bloody in the next year. we got absolutely no help to do anything about it. that, certainly, is one of my greatest this appointments. someone asked me later after big budgets came in, how did it feel to have been right. i said, bittersweet. it is nice, but it does not help. >> you might have gathered from ron's remarks that his father was the ambassador to afghanistan from 1867 to 1973. -- from 1967 to 1973. ryan crocker: we were both engaged in afghanistan after the fall of the taliban. i've reopened the embassy in january of 2002. i could not even land in kabul. the runways were inoperative. we had become men, ford a river go through miles of devastation to get to what was left of the capital. that perspective with a sense that the glass was glass ful