he says zawahiri's propaganda might help the u.s.find him. >> any time he pops his head up, like a prairie dog, he can be found or traced back to him can be found. >> reporter: so the dilemma for zawahiri is he needs to message to stay relevant, but when he messages, he becomes vulnerable? >> that's right. >> reporter: u.s. officials say if they get a clear shot at zawahiri, they'll take it. they suspect he's hiding in a populated center somewhere deep inside pakistan. is it important to take zawahiri off the battlefield? >> absolutely. this is a resourceful and smart guy. it's important we get him as soon as possible. >> reporter: zawahiri lacks bin laden's charisma and core al qaeda is down to a few hundred members. but counterterrorism officials say it would be a big mistake to underestimate the egyptian doctor. bob orr, cbs news, washington. >>> coming up after your local news on "cbs this morning," an update from beijing on the fate of chinese dissident chen guangcheng. plus, a new biography on president obama through former gir

chasing al qaeda says al-zawahiri wants to tighten his grip on the terror network. >> ayman al-zawahiri to cement his authority has to carry out terror, he has to produce a significant terrorist attack which has his fingerprints on it. >> reporter: so so to establish his credentials in the terror world, he needs to attack? >> sooner or later you can't just talk about terror and expect to be regarded as a terrorist mastermind. you've got to orchestrate terror. >> reporter: but al-zawahiri's al qaeda centered in pakistan has been battered by relentless drone strikes and may not be capable of another large-scale attack. so al-zawahiri has used a dozen audio and video messages since bin laden's death to inspire strikes by al qaeda affiliates and home-grown radicals within the u.s. juan zarate on the national security council of the george w. bush white house says al-zawahiri's propaganda might help the u.s. find him. >> any time he pops his head up-- like a prairie dog-- he an be found or traced back to him can be found. >> reporter: so the dilemma for al-zawahiri is he feeds to message to

and i'd like to just say about zawahiri in particular. if he were smart, he would never carry out another attack on the u.s. again. because unless americans are dying, apparently we don't care. so if he were smart, he would never, ever, ever attack us again. and keep doing what has been going on in the rest of the world as one person put it to me, the garden spots of the world. this person put it dismissively. and we wouldn't -- we wouldn't intervene, we wouldn't -- made a public declaration, you know, tomorrow, we've given up, you know -- we're not going to attack the u.s. again. i think that would be one of the smartest things he could do strategically. given his war aims. but i don't believe he'll do it. and that's because i have a slightly different read on zawahiri than perhaps others on the panels do. around the panel do. 15 years ago, i think that was right on. i think -- he had ticked off he have been in his entire organization that he had had started. he had such an abrasive personality i think caused by certain events in his lif

so, if that is the case why did ayman al zawahiri accept the group? why did he bring him into fold. now, there is a sort of a letter, one of the letters which is open to several interpretations. and it could be addressed to bin laden but it could be addressed to somebody else. and i want seems to be about bin laden's refusal to admit al shabab into the fold. and the an anonymous author of this letter is critical of the fact why aren't we including them into the fold and the more we include in the fold is a sign by god. i have a suspicion that maybe ayman al zawahiri and my suspicion also is that it was not addressed to bin laden but i could be wrong about it and it could be some went behind his back. >> before i turn it over to the audience for questions i want to ask you one more about this process. this is 17 documents, reportedly several thousand were captured. you know, you made the important provisos how do you understand 17 documents and placing them in the context of the rest of the stuff that wasn't released and even then what do you not see? there's a lot of context that go

the head of al qaeda now is egyptian himself. >> rose: al-zawahiri is egyptian. >> al-zawahiri is egyptian. a senior al qaeda official in iran also egyptian. and the brother of al-zawahiri was released not long ago from egyptian prison. so egypt, i would say, a very serious potential concern where al qaeda is definitely trying to get... >> rose: if something happened that would be the most egregious threat to national security? >> that would be a very serious threat. >> rose: okay. when you look at iran, what do we know about iran's involvement with al qaeda? >> the iran/al qaeda relationship has been a very complicated one. after al qaeda lost its sanctuary in afghanistan the bulk of the senior leaders went to pakistan. but a number of them called the management council they were viewed as in case the leadership was decimated in pakistan they would have enough senior leaders in iran that they could continue to fux as an organization. so bin laden encouraged several management council members to go to iran. they were initially welcomed by the iranian quds force, the revolutionary guards. t

sharif ran the organization, al-zawahiri was his deputy. sharif was particularly important because he established a lot of the important ideological underpinnings of the islamic jihad. some of the stuff used was used in the al qaeda training camps. but over the next several years they had a falling out in the personal base. part of that was sharif was deeply upset at what al-zawahiri did to one of his books, editing it in a way that he thought was wrong. and then it does appear that sharif began to have second thoughts about the use of violence in the way that al-zawahiri continued to push on the opposition against the egyptian regime and then a broad view of killing civilians including muslims that sharif ultimately couldn't accept as valid. >> host: you talk about your frustration that the u.s. government didn't take advantage of the schism between the two sides. how could the u.s. have picked up the messages and reflect the amount to the islamic world without tainting them by backing them? i know that's a lot of time for u.s. officials a

it doesn't mean zawahiri was ignoring him. frankly if i was al zawahiri, i would have made changes because many were grammatical and so on but it may not have reached him at the time. >> let's go to the back and we'll come back to you. from the embassy of pakistan, would you think some of these documents were intentionally left that way to mislead everybody? he wasn't a sympathetic person to those causes but just wanted a legacy? >> i seriously doubt it. there are so many things in these documents that would not be in the interest of bin laden to mislead. i can see that he would have destroyed many doums. his operational security measures are very sharp. i can understand that he would have deleted as many as he could have. that would have been a possibility. but you know, at the end of the day bin laden was trying to be as involved as his situation permits him. he wasn't trying, you know, just to busy himself with this -- with creating a conspiracy for the rest of us. he's more -- he's very detailed about certain matters. base

not that al-zawahiri was in play but they never swore an oath. my read of the situation, having lived in that part of the world and having done work with the assistance of others suggests to me strongly that it is not the ideological linkage to al qaeda that matters most to zero more. but rather than strategic linkage to pakistan and -- notions that the jihad from western pakistan is fermented into an international problem for americans or chinese source -- or others. that is the break right now. it leaves us with half the other two of the five things that are out there. which we do have to worry about a week have to take a different tack and approach and one what i -- i would argue that we're seeing and taking already. reduce the footprint of american military and western military, or enter around special forces, and direct strike technology and better coordination. that is where i think we're headed in yemen and somalia. it may be slow but where we need to get to. we should expect that al qaeda is trying to coopt. let's be careful about making

ayman al zawahiri. >> we are muslims who believe in their religion!ical egyptian who would give bin laden the enemy he was looking for. [ male announcer ] imagine facing the day with less chronic osteoarthritis pain. imagine living your life with less chronic low back pain. imagine you, with less pain. cymbalta can help. cymbalta is fda-approved to manage chronic musculoskeletal pain. one non-narcotic pill a day, every day, can help reduce this pain. tell your doctor right away if your mood worsens, you have unusual changes in mood or behavior or thoughts of suicide. antidepressants can increase these in children, teens, and young adults. cymbalta is not approved for children under 18. people taking maois or thioridazine or with uncontrolled glaucoma should not take cymbalta. taking it with nsaid pain relievers, aspirin, or blood thinners may increase bleeding risk. severe liver problems, some fatal, were reported. signs include abdominal pain and yellowing skin or eyes. tell your doctor about all your medicines, including those for migraine and while

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it included the man who was killed when he succeeded ayman al-zawahiri. it includes the planner of attacks against the united states and europe until he was captured. with this most skilled and experienced commanders -- with its most skilled and experienced commanders being caught quickly, al qaeda has had trouble replacing them. this we have been able to piece together from documents seized from bin laden's compound, many of which we will release this week. bin laden or read about "the rise of the world leaders who are not as experienced, and this will lead to the repeat of mistakes." al qaeda leaders continue to struggle to communicate with affiliates. under intense pressure in the tribal regions of pakistan, they have fewer places to train and groom the next generation of operatives. they are struggling to attract recruits. morale is low and at some members are giving up and returning home. no doubt they are aware this is a fight they will never win. al qaeda is losing badly, and i bin laden knew it at the time of his death. in documents we seized, he

is the -- do you see differences between bin laden and ayman al zawahiri on this specific issue. both of them are more pragmatic about the need to limit the killing of citizens and focus on what you're calling qualitative attacks. one the earnings of that strategic perspective they are similar even if they disagree a little bit in how they should relate to the potential affiliates. >> ayman al zawahiri has come out in the past in public statements denouncing attacks against civilians. he's not somebody who is blood thirsty for civilians for the sask killing them. having said that, ayman al zawahiri seems to me to be more trusting of regional jihadi groups and is willing to partner with them, i think, for the namesake where as bin laden is way more cautious about the kind of groups that he wishes to partner with. >> okay. jen, how about up here in the front. >> this is a very long question and may be redundant but i'm trying to zero in on this. the word jihad of course means struggle. and of course killing someone is against the koran. how would you justify any of the killing, be

and clearly zawahiri wants to send the message right now that syria is the place to congregate. and he has said, he much more than bin laden. because bin laden did not want to take on the shia until after they dealt with the outsidin fidels. and the logic here was the shia are smaller, at our beck and call and mercy once we recognize the i'ma, the faithful on the sunni side. and this is an interesting tact. zawahiri is asking for much more to exploit the secondtarian violence against the al awhite in syria. and that's important. because as sha reason indicates, that does play into another broadening theme in the wider middle east, which is this shia/sunni split, which is anchored on re add and tehran hostilities over nuclear weapons but also over this belief in re add that the last decade has unfairly advantaged iran. and so this is all playing out here, as well. so this is the interesting tactical shift we see here. let me talk about tactics, though, okay? tactics don't belie strategy. and here mary's point applies. to the extent al qaeda matters, it matters for what its overal

but you raised a very important question which is how did al zawahiri find khalid sheikh mohammed andthat is not what happened. is actually the other way round the that khalid sheikh mohammed sent out basically invited al zawahiri to karachi to meet with him as who has taken on a circuitous road and all of a sudden he opens the door and khalid sheikh mohammed and ramzi yousef for there. that just goes to show a couple of things. one, how it egotistical khalid sheikh mohammed is but also how brazen he was in karachi. we talked to somebody who was familiar with that incident who said ksm literally walked down the stairs of the flat and out onto the street when he left, and you know, one thing that i will always remember that a senior isi person told me back in 2002 was that the isi has pakistan so well covered that you can't smoke a cigarette on any street corner in pakistan without us knowing what rand it is. i always remember that because of that was the case why couldn't you find these guys which raises a lot of questions. >> beheading that is overstating isi's capability. not that t

zawahiri lacks bin laden's charisma and core al qaeda is down to a few hundred members. the counterterrorism officials say it would be a big mistake to underestimate the egyptian doctor. bob orr, cbs news, washington. >>> secretary of defense leon panetta wants the military to shore up discipline. panetta will deliver the message at ft. benning, georgia, today. he wants military leaders to crack down on bad behavior. it's a response to a string of incidents such as taking controversial photos and desecrating enemy corpses that has complicated relations in afghanistan. >>> coming up on the morning news -- facebook filing. new details on the social network's ipo this month as it gets set for a record debut. you're watching the "cbs morning news." news." [ female announcer ] ready for a taste of what's hot? check out the latest collection of snacks from lean cuisine. creamy spinach artichoke dip, crispy garlic chicken spring rolls. they're this season's must-have accessory. lean cuisine. be culinary chic. my turn. ♪ [ dad ] what's that? you got mommy a mother's day present?

i have a suspicion it may be al-zawahiri.and my suspicion also is that it was not addressed to bin laden but i could be wrong about it and it could be some criticism behind his back. >> before i turn it over to the audience for questions i want to ask you one more which is, about this process, right. this is 17 documents. reportedly several thousand were captured. you know you made, i think the appropriate provisos about, you know, how do you understand 17 documents and placing them into the context of the rest of this stuff that wasn't released and even then what do you not see. there is a lot of context that goes missing but what is the value of declassifying and releasing this information to all of us? this has come up. there are folks that criticize this process. i tend to be very much a supporter of this kind of disclosure. it allows us to have in a public conversation have a more informed debate but do you think that we can do are in of this in the future? this is something ctc has done in the past. how do we facilitate

al-qaeda leader ayman zawahiri. where secretary clinton says he's hiding out today. jon: plus she's be been accused of stalking nba players. you won't believe how close she actually got to them. jenna: wanted to take a shot, jon. jon: could have been a three-pointer, from that range! details on this crazy video, next. [ woman ] oh, my gosh -- it's so good! [ kristal ] we're just taking a sample of all our different items in our festival of shrimp so we can describe them to our customers. [ male announcer ] red lobster's festival of shrimp starts now! for just $12.99, pair any two of 9 exciting shrimp creations like new barbeque glazed shrimp or crab stuffed shrimp. the crab-stuffed shrimp are awesome! [ woman ] very creamy. that's a keeper! [ woman ] shrimp skewer. [ woman #2 ] sweet, smoky. [ man ] delicious! [ laughter ] [ male announcer ] any combination just $12.99! [ woman ] sohat are ya'lls favorites? [ group ] everything! [ laughter ] we're servers at red lobster. and we sea food differely. jon: police in louisville, investigating a death at the site of this w

. >> what information might lead to al zawahiri. >> i am curious. you had an opportunity to walk through where he lived. i think a lot of people would be surprised. from the outside it looked like a luxurious compound. what was in there? >> it was rather squalored. he didn't die of martyrdom. he died surrounded by his kids. each wife had their own kitchen, their own kind of setup. they were not living large. their beds were made from hammered together pieces of plywood and bin laden's bedroom where he was killed there was a little box of just for men pakistani version that he used to dye his hair and his toilet was a tiny thing he would have to squat over. it was not like dr. noe, dr. evil. >> he was living with his much younger 29-year-old. he had two others. one was 64 and one was r5 4 living in the compound. he had two kids with her. i think he wanted to look good for his younger wife. >> you both interviewed him. you had the opportunity to sit down with this man. what was he like? we hear so much about how he wanted to maintain control and zawah

but al-zawahiri is asking for much more to exploit sectarian client -- violence in syria. it does play into another brought in theme and a wider middle east is the shia sunni split anchored on rihad and tehran hostilities over nuclear- weapons and the belief in riyadh that the last decade unfairly advantage pteron and we americans love to facilitate some of that by turning iraq over to the shia and doing other things. this is playing as well. this is the tactical shift. tactics do not allow strategy. al qaeda matters for what it's overall aspirations are, and if it is not an aspiration for overall caliphate, that only violence can bring change, then you did not have al-qaeda. you have something back in the day analogous to trade unions and social democrats. but it takes time, 100 years to 150 years before you develop the political process. but if we get to the point what all the heads of -- whether they want to talk about getting a new parliamentary majority in syria, i think that ideological battle is just about won because that means the voice of the people speaking thro

iman al-zawahiri is believed to be in pakistan.nis are saying give us your proof and we'll go after him. here is hillary clinton. >> we want to disable al qaeda. and we made a lot off progress in doing that. there are several significant leaders still on the run. al-zawahiri who inherited the leadership from bin laden is somewhere we believe in pakistan. we are intent upon going after those who are trying to keep al qaeda operational and inspirational. bill: that is a major headline with the tribunals underway at gitmo and hillary clinton traveling in india. the pakistanis are saying there is no information about al qaeda leader al-zawahiri in pakistan. martha: the john edwards trial gets underway today and it's follow the money. secret payment from that woman, rachel, known as bunny mellon. one of those checks about $100,000. there it is. disguised as a payment for antique furniture so says the prosecution. jonathan serrie is live outeyed the federal court in breens borrow, north carolina. >> reporter: she is reportedly 100 years

and ayman al zawahiri, the number two who has taken over after bin laden's death, just doesn't have the kind of compelling control and charisma that blald had, and it's not clear that he's able to draw together all those separate entities that anybody is really sworn their e allegiance to zawahiri himself. and again, the most serious threat comes from yemen. in in africa, they're pretty much considered criminals. in somalia, both kenya and ethiopian military forces have made great strides in taking out that al qaeda operation. but you'll see al qaeda trying to insert itself in places like syria and egypt, and so far they haven't had much success in capitalizing on the rash spring. >> you touched on with it with yemen and we're coming up on the 12th anniversary of what happened with the "uss cole" bombing in yemen and prior to what happened here on september 11th roughly a year later. have analysts never taken their eye off of yemen and what is seen to be a hotbed of terrorist activity and the fact that it is still continuing there? >> well, you remember that anwar al awlaki, the america

ayman al zawahiri, the current leader of al qaeda, is believed to be there, and so was osama bin laden for the past nine years until he was killed. >> international forces are expected to hand over security responsibilities to the afghans in 2014. how do you expect the security situation in the country to change in the run-up to that transfer? >> well, i think it's going to be a very difficult moment that we have to, say, embrace. first of all, the lack of, say, respect on both sides, i mean the international forces and the afghan forces on the other side, is going to be a major task and challenge for us. and also, we shouldn't forget that the, say, lack of morale on, again, both parties, have driven the forces to conduct very, say, deplorable actions, just as we've been seeing on the camera and videos that have led to major demonstrations and made the security situation even more difficult. >> so, what prospects are there for negotiations with the taliban? will talks resume any time soon? >> well, again, i'm not optimistic, but it could restart any moment when the two parties are read

al-zawahiri and others of the core group alamance still feel the wrath of that. there are no longer seen as -- they are no longer seen as immune. any [unintelligible] any [unintelligible]

iman al zawahiri released a new audio message yesterday.ing, he calls yemen's exiled former leader a fugitive puppet and the new president a collaborating stooge. the message of released as yemen's government wages an all-out war on al qaeda. an official tells nbc news the recording was made before news broke last week of a foiled al qaeda plot to blow up a u.s. airliner with a sophisticated underwear bomb. >>> today prosecutors in the roger clemens perjury trial will focus on physical evidence they say proves the former pitcher used steroids and human growth hormones. brian mcnamee, a former strength trainer, says he saved a needle swab and cotton ball he used when injeblcting clemens in 200. the prosecution is expected to show the evidence contains clemens' dna. the former pitching great is accused of lying to congress in 2008 when he denied using steroids and hgh. the trial is in its fifth week. and yesterday, a second member of the jury was dismissed for sleeping. >>> richmond's top prosecutor is calling the virginia house of delegates'

knew bin laden personally was involved in communications to try to corral and bring under control zawahiri. we knew he was making outreach. we knew he was involved in these types of things working through individuals but we knew he was there doing that. as a consequence and no surprise when you're talking about a global ideology he was relevant. >> how has security changed since the death of osama bin laden. members continue to weigh in. see what they have to say on line at the c-span video library. all archived and searchable. >> here is what's coming up today. newt gingrich is planning to officially end his campaign for the republican presidential nomination and will make an announcement today in arlington, virginia. c-span will have live coverage starting at 3:00 p.m. eastern. c-span2 live at 3:00 with the discussion on the impact of broadband on job creation. a new report says increasing number of african-americans have internet access and that could translate into more jobs. that discussion live on c-span2, starting at 3:00 p.m. eastern. here on c-span3 it's american history tv prime

bin laden personally was involved in communications to try to corral and bring under control al zawahiri. we knew we was making outreach early on the al shabaab and somalia. we knew he was involved in all these types of things, working through mediums and other types of individuals. we knew he was there and doing that. and as a consequence, and no surprise when you're talking about a global ideology, bin laden was relevant.

he rebuffed pleas from his deputy, ayman al-zawahiri, to merge al qaeda with al-shabab in somalia, and he rejected al- awlaki as a proposed leader in yemen. although the u.s.-boorn al- awlaki masterminded the underwear bomb plot, bin laden asked that al-awlaki send a resume. bin laden continued to map new attacks. in may 2010, bin laden wrote he wanted to target general david petraeus, the head of u.s. central command. and he wanted to kill president obama, noting that will make biden take over, which will lead the u.s. into a crisis. bin laden planned to mark the tenth anniversary of 9/11 with a new message to the american people. he was killed four months before that date. but in his last letter, just one week prior to his death, bin laden was still plotting. he urged aides to take advantage of the revolutions that were toppling dictators during the arab spring of 2011. he wrote, "the oncoming stage will be for islam, allah willing." it's also clear bin laden was a bit delusional. by the time of his death, core al qaeda had been badly decimated by drones. his aspirations, scott, were