ago, professor, we were together at a conference and the now late national security advisor zbigniew brzezinskike there about a crisis like this and he said, this is like killing hostages. these people are occupied by israel and of this is like killing hostages. these were his views. but when you look at that legacy of time, at that moment, palestine always came up as a strategic fault line between the west and the arab world. it was filled with that much consequence. with the abraham accords, with so many arab states having normalized with israel, one wonders if there is any strategic relevance in palestine anymore, and whether it is just a moral play at this point. what are your views? i remember you being in the room when brezinski said that, and that was a moment when palestine and its state seemed to matter more than it does strategically to the various stakeholders in the region today. >> i am of the view that the palestinians have never been strategically important. at that is why they are in the position that they are. it has never been important to anyone to settle this issue and make