and in the meantime, i've seen zephyr teachout run for governor. and i've seen the incredible response. when i've been out there watching people and watching real leaders push on this issue, the passion is there. and this is still a system where we can win more votes than they do and win more seats in congress than they have and pass legislation to take this critical first step. and i think we will. >> by "they," you mean the oligarchs, the plutocrats. are we close to plutocracy, where government runs, is run by the rich? >> yes. >> for the advantage of rich? >> yes. >> but, you know, here's the way i want to push back on that. it makes it sound like it works for them too. you know, it works for them on some issues. but the point is when they look at a system which, you know, they pretty much agree is broken in 1,000 different ways, they, too, can begin to recognize why this is a terrible system. when we would get super-large, rich people giving us money to make it so they had less political power in the system, trying to show off. it's because the