we knew -- we could turn on the television and see ziegler, for 15 minutes, scream and denounce us and the campaign manager for nixon and so forth. there was a point in october, october 10th, 1972, when we did a story that essentially was the dna of watergate. it said, look, it was part of a basic campaign, spying and sabotage, directed at the democrats. and if you look at what, in all of these five wars of watergate, the most insidious one was nixon and his people saying we're going to hire saboteurs and we're going to pick who nixon runs again. they derailed and helped destroy senator muskogee and pat buchanan wrote a memo saying this is great. our strategy paid off. so, the idea -- you think about this. we've talked at some length about it's really an attack on the free electoral process to say, oh, i'm running against somebody in your -- let me pick who i think will be the weakest candidate. and the idea that somebody is going to do that who is president of the united states in all of these people around him is pretty horrifying. >> you come back in a piece saying was nixon the cen

his firm specializes in representing men and joining us here in new york is divorce attorney nicky ziegler joe, let's start with you. why do men need extra protection in the courtroom? >> well, you can look at simply the statistics and they're overwhelming. the fact is that the quarter of the room among civil rights causes in america that, is neglected still, is that of the rights of men in domestic relations cases. >> steve: sure. and vicky, historically, men have, if you look at the stats, been the underdog when it comes to things like custody hearings and battles and stuff like that. >> certainly. but you don't need a male attorney to zealously advocate on behalf of a climate. serpulae represented many, many men who are look for shared custody, looking for alimony. to me, it's gender neutral in terms of representation. it's the laws, it's the judges and really zealous advocacy. that's what gets the client the results and representing many men in my career, sometimes there is professional chemistry that goes on. sometimes certain clients want a female. sometimes they want men. but to cer