because the idea of trump the invincible, the trump zilla, tre trump-rex is not true. he is terrified of joe biden. he saw the same data that showed joe biden would beat him like a drum, and they don't want to have to run against him. they want to dirty him up, and i think it's important for joe biden to point that out. at the root of it, that's what this is about. when you talk to republicans, the one democrat they say -- even trump supporters -- they would consider joe biden. they're trying to take him out. >> there's, what, two weeks before the cnn debate on this. i wonder how that will factor in when the democrats are on the stage with each other. >> well, i mean what's been interesting is that there has been a closing of the ranks. nobody is saying, oh, well, maybe we should be talking about hunter biden. i think all democrats understand that not only is this unjust and illegitimate behavior on the part of the president. the reason is because of the fear of joe biden. >> so, gloria, the white house response insofar as there is a coordinated response, how would you