zinberg that we've turned the corner. i think we're seeing some signs that maybe there's a little bit of an abatement on where the virus is, but the death rates in a lot of parts of the united states arere still horrible, and hospitals are still being strained to the limit to try and take care of covid patients, 96% of whom are unvaccinated in many, many statements and localityings. -- states and localities. so i thinknk we still face a public health emergency. i worry also that new variants appear at any time. we may see some downturn or upturn. and i also believe that the mandate is a signal to private industry even though the government may run through osha is, it's also saying, businesses, put in a mandate. and there are many businesses that wish to do this for business purposes, making sure the customers are satisfied, that everything's safe, making sure people can come back in to work. and we have an employment situation. many companies are mandating. and so i think in order to get us really to the levels of vaccina

zinberg, same question.it comes to public health, when can we place limits on individual rights? guest: you can place limits, but you want to do so as narrowly and infrequently as possible. so there may be instances where it is necessary to place some sort of limits but then how do you impose it? what is the least restrictive way of doing it, and who is the proper authority to make that determination? is it state and local governments, which is traditionally the government entity that we task with doing that or is it the federal government, which really has now constitutional -- no constitutional role in general to do these things. host: the issue the brought up this conversation a vaccine mandates, the announcement from the biden administration on a slew of mandates. probably the one the most attention gathering last week is businesses with more than 100 employees must require their workers to get vaccinated or tested on a regular basis. mr. kaplan, what is the legal justification for the biden administrati

zinberg is a law professor at santa clara university. said the prosecution will likely layout a methodical case that will be a challenge to refute the government is going to be very fact based. they're very successful and wire fraud prosecutions there. most of those cases settle the ones that go to trial have an extraordinarily high percentage of convictions. the government is a expected to call witnesses who have some knowledge of homes. communications possibly former investors, board members and employees who know about the company's inner workings. homes amassed hundreds of millions in investment capital while claiming her edison machine could do complex tests from only a few drops of blood. the company began testing patients blood, even though the technology never worked as promised. the department of justice charged homes and her former partner, sonny bill wani, with 10 counts of fraud and two counts of conspiracy. they've both pleaded not early next year perhaps the most compelling witness, maybe homes herself, her defense team has

joel zinberg and arthur kaplan from nyu discussed vaccine mandates.n wall street journal's richard rubin talks about congressional democrats proposed tax plan to pay for spending proposals.