and green lighting their use on abu zubaydah. so throughout august of 2002 he's brutally tortured, including he's waterboarded 83 times. you know, kept nude, subjected to temperature extremes. sleep deprivation. dietary manipulation. slaps. wallings. slamming him against the wall. and this reading, i think, that you're going to show is it juxtaposes the john yoo memo describing the treatment, with one of the only documents that we have in which abu zubaydah speaks. >> john yoo was? >> a justice department attorney in the office of legal counsel. he is the architect of a number of the legal manipulations that declare these things legal. and this is abu zubaydah speaking to the red cross in 2006, four years after he'd been disappeared, literally disappeared, into secret prisons. he's been held in thailand, and then in poland. he's finally brought to guantanamo with 14, with 13 other high-valued detainees in october or in september of 2006. he finally gets to see the red cross. and he tells his story of what happens. and the amazing

guinea pig. >> zubaydah was planner and facilitator.was a senior al qaeda person. also very smart. [gunfire] zubaydah sees in pakistan six months after 9/11 and rendered to a secret cia black side thought to be in thailand. he was the first high-value targets to be captured. initially, he was interviewed by the fbi, who did not lay a finger on him. he revealed to them the i did it did publish identity of khalid shaikh mohammed, but the cia thought he was holding back. >> we were dead in the water. he had shut down. he was not talking. and we needed to come up with a set of alternative techniques that would convince the terrorist that he had no control over the situation, that his fate was in our hands. >> the cia's top lawyer believed it was essential to have the secret techniques authorized at the highest level. >> there was considerable hesitation. that was the entire reason frankly that i made the decision to make sure that we were not going to conduct these kinds of unprecedented activities. without the full and complete legal and p

zubaydah quickly revealed critical information, including identifying the mastermind of the 9/11 plot, khalid sheik mohammed. soufan called a supervisor. >> we did not know that khalid sheikh mohammed was a member of al qaeda. and immediately after that, i contacted my asac in new york, and he was totally shocked. he said, "but he's not a member of al qaeda, khalid sheikh mohammed." i said, "well, think again." >> smith: abu zubaydah also told soufan about an active plot which led to the arrest of an al qaeda figure named jose padilla in chicago. but the cia believed abu zubaydah knew much more, so they brought in a special contractor, a retired air force psychologist. although he has been publicly identified since, his name is still technically classified. his real name is mit >> i don't... >> smith: you cannot confirm i >> i cannot confirm or deny the individual's name shape or form. so i describe him in boris. >> smith: and so boris arrives. tell me. tell me the story. >> boris arrives, and we believed we were getting some headway with abu zubaydah. but he has different opinion abo

what terrorist was present. >> zubaydah. >> bill: zubaydah was present and you were there in the beginningnd the fbi and the cia were there together. >> yes. >> bill: at that point you weren't roughing him up. you were interrogating us a would anywhere. can you tell me whether it was overseas it? >> was overseas. >> bill: that's what i thought. then they build you out and rodriguez and his guys went in. >> right. >> and they waterboarded sue zubaydah. they say the information they got led to khalid sheikh mohammed. >> that's factually not to the truth here. >> bill: how do you know that. >> i'm still working with prosecutions guantanamo bay. i know the information we got after. another point, everything that they told us about the efficacy of enhanced interrogation techniques thus far i was there when we get this information, number one, number two, that has been discredited what mr. rodriguez is saying. >> bill: not to me though. that's the important thing for you tonight. here is my problem i don't want to take sides on this because i wasn't there. >> sure. >> bill: you should know that

you didn't know what the cia got out of zubaydah and al she'd? >> i on the fbi pulled out from the site. >> bill: where was the site. >> i can't tell you that. >> bill: you were there in the beginning and what terrorist was president. >> zubaydah. >> bill: he was present and you there were in the beginning. the fbi and cia were there together? >> yes. >> bill: at that point you weren't roughing them up. weren't doing waterboarding. you were intier getting as you would anywhere? >> yes. >> bill: can you tell me it was overseas? >> overseas. >> bill: pulled you 00. rodriguez and his guys went in and they wausharaed zubaydah and they say the information they got from zubaydah led to the capture of other terrorists including khalid sheikh mohammed. >> well that is factually not the truth either. >> how do you know that though? >> i'm still working with the military commissions on the guantanamo bay. i know the information we got after. everything they told us about the efficacy of enhanced interrogation techniques so far. i was there when we get the

what terrorist was present. >> zubaydah. >> bill: zubaydah was present and you were there in the beginningnd the cia were there together. >> yes. >> bill: at that point you weren't roughing him up. you were interrogating us a would anywhere. can you tell me whether it was overseas it? >> was overseas. >> bill: that's what i thought. then they build you out and rodriguez and his guys went in. >> right. >> and they waterboarded sue zubaydah. they say the information they got led to khalid sheikh mohammed. >> that's factually not to the truth here. >> bill: how do you know that. >> i'm still working with prosecutions guantanamo bay. i know the information we got after. another point, everything that they told us about the efficacy of enhanced interrogation techniques thus far i was there when we get this information, number one, number two, that has been discredited what mr. rodriguez is saying. >> bill: not to me though. that's the important thing for you tonight. here is my problem i don't want to take sides on this because i wasn't there. >> sure. >> bill: you should know that i do agree w

you didn't know what the cia got out of zubaydah and al she'd?bi pulled out from the site. >> bill: where was the site. >> i can't tell you that. >> bill: you were there in the beginning and what terrorist was president. >> zubaydah. >> bill: he was present and you there were in the beginning. the fbi and cia were there together? >> yes. >> bill: at that point you weren't roughing them up. weren't doing waterboarding. you were intier getting as you would anywhere? >> yes. >> bill: can you tell me it was overseas? >> overseas. >> bill: pulled you 00. rodriguez and his guys went in and they wausharaed zubaydah and they say the information they got from zubaydah led to the capture of other terrorists including khalid sheikh mohammed. >> well that is factually not the truth either. >> how do you know that though? >> i'm still working with the military commissions on the guantanamo bay. i know the information we got after. everything they told us about the efficacy of enhanced interrogation techniques so far. i was there when we get the information. n

what makes it more intriguing this 2010 letter from bin laden to zubaydah, the leader of al-shabab insomalia that bin win was reluctant to franchise al qaeda. he made a mistake once. he will not do it again. so if that is the case, why did al-zawahiri accept the group? why did he bring them into the fold? now there is, there is sort of a letter, one of the letters which is open to several interpretations and it could be addressed to bin laden but it could be addressed to somebody else. and it seems to be about bin laden's refusal to admit al-shabab into the fold and this author, or this anonymous author of this letter is critical of the fact that why aren't we including them into the fold. and the more we include in the fold, you know, this is a sign of god that we are expanding and so on and so forth. i have a suspicion it may be al-zawahiri. and my suspicion also is that it was not addressed to bin laden but i could be wrong about it and it could be some criticism behind his back. >> before i turn it over to the audience for questions i want to ask you one more which is, about this