1 00:00:00,0 --> 00:00:02,801 MEN COMING TO POWER IN THE UNITED STATES. 2 00:00:02,803 --> 00:00:06,704 OF COURSE IT IS HORRIFYING, VERY OPPRESSIVE, DICTATORIAL STATE SO 3 00:00:06,706 --> 00:00:12,244 I WANTED TO SEE WHAT THERE WAS PARTICULARLY IN THOSE BOOKS. 4 00:00:12,246 --> 00:00:19,846 YOU HAVE TO WATCH THIS REALLY WEIRD MOVIE IDIOTIC WITH THE -- 5 00:00:19,848 --> 00:00:19,943 YOU SEE GLIMMERS. THE APPEAL, THERE WAS A FAMOUS 6 00:00:19,945 --> 00:00:22,329 MOMENT I CAN'T REMEMBER WHICH PRIMARY, ARIZONA AFTER ARIZONA. 7 00:00:22,331 --> 00:00:27,774 I LOVE THE POORLY EDUCATED BECAUSE HE HAD DONE SO WELL IN 8 00:00:27,776 --> 00:00:35,48 THAT DEMOGRAPHIC. IN THOSE BOOKS THE LEADERS THAT 9 00:00:35,50 --> 00:00:41,897 BECOME TOTALITARIAN FIGURES HAD STRONG APPEAL AMONG WHAT WE NOW 10 00:00:41,899 --> 00:00:52,164 CALL LOW INFORMATION VOTERS. YOU SEE SOME PARALLELS, AND 11 00:00:52,166 --> 00:00:56,200 EXPECTATION THAT THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG IS THESE ARE 12 00:00:56,202 --> 00:01:02,54 VERY DYSTOPIAN NOVEL TO GO MUCH FURTHER THAN I THINK DONALD 13 00:01:02,56 --> 00:01:05,863 TRUMP WOULD EVER GO. THERE ARE THESE KIND OF 14 00:01:05,865 --> 00:01:12,798 INTERLUDES IN HISTORY AND SINCLAIR LEWIS, WHAT HAPPENED, 15 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:17,595 EXCUSE ME, IN THE PLOT AGAINST AMERICA, CHARLES LINDBERGH COMES 16 00:01:17,597 --> 00:01:23,994 TO POWER AND THE COUNTRY HORRIBLY FOR TWO YEARS AND 17 00:01:23,996 --> 00:01:31,790 DISAPPEARS AND ROOSEVELT COMES BACK AND EVERYTHING PICKS UP AS 18 00:01:31,792 --> 00:01:33,240 WE KNOW IT. WHICH CAN HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE. 19 00:01:33,242 --> 00:01:41,400 I WAS LOOKING FOR INSPIRATION IN FICTION AND I THINK THERE ARE 20 00:01:41,402 --> 00:01:45,615 ELEMENTS THAT YOU RECOGNIZE IN TRUMP'S PERSONAL STYLE AND 21 00:01:45,617 --> 00:01:47,357 RHETORIC AND HIS APPEAL TO THE AUDIENCE. 22 00:01:47,359 --> 00:01:52,860 THE MOST IMPORTANT THING I LEARNED AT WORK, MISTER TRUMP 23 00:01:52,862 --> 00:01:55,690 WRITES, IS NOT TO BE OVERLY IMPRESSED BY ACADEMIC 24 00:01:55,692 --> 00:01:54,996 CREDENTIALS. DIDN'T TAKE ME LONG TO REALIZE 25 00:01:54,998 --> 00:02:01,557 THERE IS ANYTHING AWESOME OR EXCEPTIONAL ABOUT MY CLASSMATES. 26 00:02:01,559 --> 00:02:09,19 MICHAEL KRUSE, LET'S GO BACK TO WHERE WE STARTED. 27 00:02:09,21 --> 00:02:12,904 IS THIS CAMPAIGN PLAYBOOK? IT CAN BE SEEN AS SUCH. 28 00:02:12,906 --> 00:02:14,7 THERE ARE LOTS OF BOOKS HE HAS WRITTEN OR COWRITTEN OR BEEN 29 00:02:14,9 --> 00:02:19,720 WRITTEN FOR HIM THAT ALL ADDED UP, THE CAMPAIGN PLAYBOOK FOR 30 00:02:19,722 --> 00:02:22,555 DONALD TRUMP. MONICA LANGLEY. 31 00:02:22,557 --> 00:02:27,860 I SAY DEFINITIVELY YES. IT IS CLASSIC DONALD TRUMP AND 32 00:02:27,862 --> 00:02:40,632 ELEMENTS OF THE DEAL, THE ELEMENTS OF HIS CAMPAIGN. 33 00:02:40,634 --> 00:02:39,920 MONICA LANGLEY, MICHAEL KRUSE, CARLOS LOZADA, THANK YOU 34 00:02:39,922 --> 00:02:57,226 FOR BEING ON THIS ROUNDTABLE ON BOOKTV. 35 00:02:57,228 --> 00:02:58,263 NEXT UP ON OUR BLOCK OF PROGRAMS ABOUT DONALD TRUMP, 36 00:02:58,265 --> 00:03:02,595 TRUMP REVEALED, WITH AUTHORS MARC FISHER AND MICHAEL KRANISH. 37 00:03:02,597 --> 00:03:08,235 WHY DON'T WE GET STARTED? MY NAME IS MARTY BARRON, 38 00:03:08,236 --> 00:03:09,835 EXECUTIVE EDITOR OF THE WASHINGTON POST. 39 00:03:09,837 --> 00:03:15,742 WE ARE EXCITED THAT ALL OF YOU CAME OUT THIS EVENING, TO 40 00:03:15,744 --> 00:03:19,779 WELCOME YOU HERE. TONIGHT YOU ARE GOING TO GET THE 41 00:03:19,781 --> 00:03:28,588 CHANCE TO MEET SOME OF THE JOURNALISTS AND EDITORS OF 42 00:03:28,590 --> 00:03:35,992 "TRUMP REVEALED: AN AMERICAN JOURNEY OF AMBITION, EGO, MONEY 43 00:03:35,994 --> 00:03:38,907 AND POWER". THIS WAS AN EXHAUSTIVELY 44 00:03:38,909 --> 00:03:44,440 RESEARCHED BOOK ABOUT THE LIFE AND CAREER OF DONALD TRUMP. 45 00:03:44,442 --> 00:03:50,310 THE POST HAS A LONG TRADITION WITH THE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEES 46 00:03:50,312 --> 00:03:58,246 OF EACH MAJOR PARTY AND THIS YEAR DONALD TRUMP'S SHALL WE SAY 47 00:03:58,248 --> 00:04:03,993 NOVEL AND OVERSIZED PRESENCE IN THE POLITICAL ARENA, AND 48 00:04:03,995 --> 00:04:04,268 OPPORTUNITY TO DO A BOOK. WE ARE ESPECIALLY GRATEFUL, ALL 49 00:04:04,270 --> 00:04:11,878 THESE FOLKS WHO CAME IN ON TIME FOR MAKING THAT POSSIBLE. 50 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:13,31 I WANT TO MENTION WE HAVE PUBLISHER NAN BROWN, THERE WE 51 00:04:13,33 --> 00:04:17,773 GO. [APPLAUSE] 52 00:04:17,775 --> 00:04:19,438 EDITOR IN CHIEF COLIN HARRISON. 53 00:04:19,441 --> 00:04:22,776 YOU ALL WORKED INCREDIBLY FAST AND INCREDIBLY HARD AND WITH 54 00:04:22,778 --> 00:04:26,97 SKILL THROUGHOUT AND WE ARE GRATEFUL. 55 00:04:26,99 --> 00:04:36,126 FROM THE POST THERE ARE TWO DOESN'T JOURNALISTS WHO WORKED 56 00:04:36,128 --> 00:04:44,686 ON THIS BOOK. THEY NEEDED TO GO VERY DEEP. 57 00:04:44,688 --> 00:04:45,968 THAT IS WHY WE DEPLOYED SUCH A LARGE SCHEME. 58 00:04:45,970 --> 00:04:50,210 SCOTT WILSON, OUR NATIONAL EDITOR WHO COULD NOT BE HERE 59 00:04:50,212 --> 00:04:54,537 THIS EVENING ASSEMBLED THAT TEAM, FLOWING FROM EVERY 60 00:04:54,539 --> 00:04:55,267 DEPARTMENT IN OUR NEWSROOM. ALL THAT CAME TOGETHER IN A 61 00:04:55,269 --> 00:05:00,347 MATTER OF MONTHS. THIS EVENING YOU WILL HEAR FROM 62 00:05:00,349 --> 00:05:04,817 FIVE OF THE PEOPLE WHO WORKED ON THIS BOOK AND WITH THE 63 00:05:04,820 --> 00:05:06,286 CO-AUTHORS, MICHAEL KRANISH WHO IS HERE AND MARC FISHER WHO IS 64 00:05:06,288 --> 00:05:14,27 BEHIND ME AND I WILL STEP AWAY, THE PRIMARY AUTHORS OF "TRUMP 65 00:05:14,29 --> 00:05:15,494 REVEALED: AN AMERICAN JOURNEY OF AMBITION, EGO, MONEY AND POWER," 66 00:05:15,497 --> 00:05:29,820 EVERYONE CONTRIBUTED TO IT. THIS IS A CONFERENCE OF 67 00:05:29,822 --> 00:05:34,353 EXAMINATION OF DONALD TRUMP'S LIFE, HIS PERSONALITY, HIS 68 00:05:34,355 --> 00:05:35,992 PERSONAL FEELINGS AND LONG-RUNNING ENCOUNTERS WITH 69 00:05:35,994 --> 00:05:37,681 POLITICIANS. WE BELIEVE THIS IS THE KIND OF 70 00:05:37,683 --> 00:05:47,864 IN-DEPTH REPORTING WE EXPECT FROM THE POST AND WITH THAT A 71 00:05:47,866 --> 00:05:40,889 SPECIAL PLEASURE FOR ME TO INTRODUCE TODAY'S MODERATOR AND 72 00:05:40,891 --> 00:05:42,388 ONE OF THE CO-AUTHORS OF THE BOOK "TRUMP REVEALED: AN 73 00:05:42,390 --> 00:05:47,836 AMERICAN JOURNEY OF AMBITION, EGO, MONEY AND POWER," SENIOR 74 00:05:47,838 --> 00:05:53,270 EDITOR MARC FISHER. [APPLAUSE] 75 00:05:53,272 --> 00:05:56,995 THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING OUT, A BIG CROWD BUT I UNDERSTAND 76 00:05:56,997 --> 00:05:59,262 MANY OF YOU ARE HERE, ONE THING WE CAN'T FIND ENOUGH OF THESE 77 00:05:59,264 --> 00:05:59,539 DAYS IS INFORMATION ABOUT DONALD TRUMP. 78 00:05:59,541 --> 00:06:07,247 THAT IS KIND OF TRUE BECAUSE HE IS THE FIRST MAJOR PARTY 79 00:06:07,249 --> 00:06:08,748 CANDIDATE IN 60 YEARS SINCE DWIGHT EISENHOWER WHO HAS NOT 80 00:06:08,751 --> 00:06:14,988 PREVIOUSLY HELD ELECTED OFFICE. THAT MEANS HE HAS NOT BEEN 81 00:06:14,990 --> 00:06:16,322 VETTED IN THE WAY MOST POLITICIANS ARE AS A MATTER OF 82 00:06:16,325 --> 00:06:20,427 COURSE AS THEY RUN FOR THEIR OFFICE. 83 00:06:20,429 --> 00:06:25,932 OBVIOUSLY HE HAS HAD CELEBRITY FOR DECADES. 84 00:06:25,934 --> 00:06:27,433 CELEBRITY IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF ATTENTION FROM HAVING YOUR LIFE 85 00:06:27,436 --> 00:06:34,875 AND CAREER, BACKGROUND RIGOROUSLY EXAMINED IN A WAY 86 00:06:34,877 --> 00:06:36,175 THAT WOULD HELP VOTERS UNDERSTAND HOW YOU THINK, HOW 87 00:06:36,178 --> 00:06:41,213 YOU MAKE DECISIONS, WHAT YOU REALLY BELIEVE IN. 88 00:06:41,216 --> 00:06:46,553 MAKING THE ROUNDS ON TV, PROMOTION OF THIS BOOK, WE FOUND 89 00:06:46,555 --> 00:06:58,515 THE SINGLE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO SELL THIS BOOK WAS ONE SINGLE 90 00:06:58,518 --> 00:07:05,503 TWEET FROM DONALD JADE TRUMP, LATE OF JAMAICA ESTATES NEW 91 00:07:05,505 --> 00:07:13,286 YORK, THE BOOK WAS ACTUALLY RELEASED, HE PUT OUT A TWEET 92 00:07:13,288 --> 00:07:14,605 SAYING, CALLING THE BOOK A JOB SAYING IT WAS BORING AND YOU 93 00:07:14,607 --> 00:07:20,587 SHOULDN'T BUY IT. OUR NUMBERS WENT SOARING AFTER 94 00:07:20,589 --> 00:07:21,588 THAT. TREMENDOUSLY GRATEFUL TO HIM 95 00:07:21,590 --> 00:07:22,955 SINCE HE INFORMED THE MILLION -- 11 MILLION OF HIS CLOSEST 96 00:07:22,958 --> 00:07:26,393 FRIENDS ABOUT THE BOOK. WHAT WAS FASCINATING ABOUT THAT 97 00:07:26,395 --> 00:07:31,898 WAS HE COULD NOT HELP HIMSELF. ANY RATIONAL CAMPAIGN ADVISOR 98 00:07:31,900 --> 00:07:35,35 WOULD HAVE TOLD HIM TO IGNORE IT BUT HE COULDN'T HELP HIMSELF SO 99 00:07:35,37 --> 00:07:37,170 HE DID THIS. THIS WAS CONFIRMATION OF 100 00:07:37,172 --> 00:07:42,976 SOMETHING IN THE BOOK, THIS IS A MAN WHO DEEPLY BELIEVES THE 101 00:07:42,978 --> 00:07:45,812 PROPER RESPONSE, THE ONLY PROPER RESPONSE TO ANYTHING THAT COULD 102 00:07:45,814 --> 00:07:53,553 BE AT ALL CRITICAL IS TO ATTACK AND ATTACK HARD. 103 00:07:53,555 --> 00:07:57,457 THE DERIVATION OF THAT CHARACTERISTIC OF DONALD TRUMP, 104 00:07:57,459 --> 00:08:03,429 NOT ONLY TO HIS CHILDHOOD, A FATHER TAUGHT HIM TO BE A KILLER 105 00:08:03,432 --> 00:08:06,733 AND WARNED HIM AGAINST BEING NOTHING BUT ALSO TO HIS 106 00:08:06,735 --> 00:08:10,871 RELATIONSHIP WITH WORK, HOME, THE INFAMOUS NEW YORK ATTORNEY 107 00:08:10,873 --> 00:08:15,981 WHICH WAS HIS MENTOR WHEN HE WAS JUST STARTING OUT ON HIS OWN IN 108 00:08:15,983 --> 00:08:20,529 BUSINESS. MARTY BARRON, THE ORIGINS OF 109 00:08:20,532 --> 00:08:25,18 THIS BOOK, A LITTLE MORE ON THAT BEFORE WE GET INTO THE 110 00:08:25,20 --> 00:08:36,86 DISCUSSION. THIS BOOK CAME TOGETHER IN LATE 111 00:08:36,88 --> 00:08:40,113 MARCH. BACK TO THE PRIMARY SEASON, IT 112 00:08:40,115 --> 00:08:44,591 BECAME VERY CLEAR DONALD TRUMP WAS THE LIKELY NOMINEE. 113 00:08:44,593 --> 00:08:45,34 AT THAT POINT THIS TEAM OF 20 REPORTERS WAS PUT TOGETHER. 114 00:08:45,36 --> 00:08:52,344 THE DEAL WE STRUCK THAT CAME, WAS SIGNED ON A THURSDAY, THE 115 00:08:52,346 --> 00:08:53,780 PLAN WAS TO ANNOUNCE IT TO THE PUBLIC THE FOLLOWING MONDAY. 116 00:08:53,782 --> 00:09:01,453 THE NEXT DAY, FRIDAY, I CALLED HOPE HITS, DONALD TRUMP'S PRESS 117 00:09:01,455 --> 00:09:04,791 SECRETARY, TO LET HER KNOW THIS WOULD BE ON THE FOLLOWING MONDAY 118 00:09:04,793 --> 00:09:08,994 AND ASKED HER, WE WANTED TO HAVE A SERIES OF INTERVIEWS WITH 119 00:09:08,997 --> 00:09:12,898 DONALD TRUMP, GET AS MUCH OF HIS TIME AS WE COULD BECAUSE 120 00:09:12,901 --> 00:09:20,973 ALTHOUGH WE HAD A LARGE GROUP OF REPORTERS DIGGING INTO EVERY 121 00:09:20,976 --> 00:09:22,474 ASPECT OF TRUMP'S LIFE, HE HAD DOCUMENTS, TALKING TO EVERYONE 122 00:09:22,476 --> 00:09:26,780 FROM HIS FRIEND AND CLASSMATE AND NEIGHBORS THROUGH HIS 123 00:09:26,782 --> 00:09:31,617 BUSINESS ASSOCIATES, PARTNERS, COMPETITORS, CONTRACTORS AND SO 124 00:09:31,619 --> 00:09:39,25 ON. WE WANTED AS MUCH TIME AS WE 125 00:09:39,27 --> 00:09:40,293 COULD GET WITH THEM. I EXPLAINED THE DEAL WE MADE AND 126 00:09:40,295 --> 00:09:42,861 THE BOOK WE WOULD BE DOING A LOT OF REPORTERS WOULD BE CALLING 127 00:09:42,864 --> 00:09:49,802 THEM AND SHE CUT ME OFF AND SAID WE ARE PROFITEERING OFF OF 128 00:09:49,804 --> 00:09:53,39 MISTER TRUMP. WHICH WAS KIND OF CURIOUS GIVEN 129 00:09:53,41 --> 00:10:07,887 THAT HE SPENT A LOT OF HIS TIME TALKING TO REPORTERS, 130 00:10:07,889 --> 00:10:09,429 PROFIT-MAKING INSTITUTIONS. SHE WAS NOT OPEN TO THAT LINE OF 131 00:10:09,432 --> 00:10:11,25 REASONING AND CUT OFF THE CONVERSATION AND THAT WE WILL 132 00:10:11,27 --> 00:10:19,164 NOT COOPERATE WITH THIS BOOK, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN. 133 00:10:19,166 --> 00:10:17,923 IT WAS A FAIRLY LIKELY OUTCOME ANYWAY THAT DID NOT AFFECT OUR 134 00:10:17,925 --> 00:10:23,360 PLAN HOW TO REPORT ON THIS BOOK BUT LOW AND BEHOLD THE FOLLOWING 135 00:10:23,362 --> 00:10:27,347 MONDAY SHE CALLED BACK AND SAID SHE HAD A CHANCE TO AS SHE PUT 136 00:10:27,349 --> 00:10:40,54 IT TELL MISTER TRUMP ABOUT YOUR FABULOUS IDEA AND HE ACTUALLY 137 00:10:40,56 --> 00:10:37,883 LIKED THE IDEA AND WANTED US TO COME TO TRUMP TOWER AS OFTEN AS 138 00:10:37,885 --> 00:10:42,622 WE LIKE AND AS LONG AS WE LIKE TO SEE THE BOOK IS FAIR AND 139 00:10:42,624 --> 00:10:48,861 ACCURATE AND GET THE REAL STORY OUT ABOUT HIS LIFE WHEN 140 00:10:48,864 --> 00:10:52,265 INTERESTING CURIOSITY IS HIS OWN PRESS SECRETARY WORKED WITH HIM 141 00:10:52,267 --> 00:10:56,101 FOR A NUMBER OF MONTHS, HE WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE THE OPPORTUNITY 142 00:10:56,104 --> 00:11:02,341 TO TALK ABOUT HIS FAVORITE SUBJECT, HIMSELF. 143 00:11:02,343 --> 00:11:08,781 AS WE TALKED TO TRUMP IN THE WEEKS THAT FOLLOWED HE REGULARLY 144 00:11:08,783 --> 00:11:22,3 EXTENDED OUR INTERVIEW TIME, DOUBLED AND TRIPLED THE AMOUNT 145 00:11:22,5 --> 00:11:30,477 OF TIME HE SPENT WITH US, SOME HE ANSWERED IN MORE DETAIL THAN 146 00:11:30,479 --> 00:11:35,936 OTHERS, BUT HE SPOKE WITH A NUMBER OF REPORTERS ON THE 147 00:11:35,938 --> 00:11:36,838 PHONE, AS THEY WENT INTO GREATER DEPTH THAT THEY WERE DIGGING 148 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:41,245 INTO, WE HAD PEOPLE WORKING ON THIS BOOK WHO WERE EXPERTS IN 149 00:11:41,247 --> 00:11:50,265 REPORTING IN ATLANTIC CITY ON FINANCES, ORGANIZED CRIME 150 00:11:50,267 --> 00:11:56,677 CONNECTIONS, LOOKED INTO BRIEF EXPERIENCE AS A SPORTS FRANCHISE 151 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:03,307 IN THE FOOTBALL LEAGUE. EVERY CHAPTER OF HIS LIFE. 152 00:12:03,309 --> 00:12:07,184 ONE OF THE GOALS IS COMPLETENESS AND ANOTHER, TRANSPARENCY. 153 00:12:07,187 --> 00:12:11,410 WE KNOW THE DOCUMENT IN THE BOOK DONALD TRUMP IS HIGHLY LITIGIOUS 154 00:12:11,412 --> 00:12:16,750 PERSON, HE HAS SUED THE AUTHOR OF THE PREVIOUS BIOGRAPHY FOR 155 00:12:16,752 --> 00:12:19,885 $5 BILLION. WE ASKED, A CERTAIN CURIOSITY 156 00:12:19,888 --> 00:12:31,898 ABOUT THAT, WE ASKED ABOUT THAT CASE, HE SAID HE NEVER READ THE 157 00:12:31,900 --> 00:12:32,765 BOOK. I WAS PUZZLED BY THAT. 158 00:12:32,768 --> 00:12:34,133 HOW DO YOU GO ABOUT SUING SOMEBODY FOR $5 BILLION WHEN YOU 159 00:12:34,135 --> 00:12:40,306 NEVER READ THE BOOK? HE SAID PEOPLE TOLD ME IT WAS A 160 00:12:40,308 --> 00:12:49,734 BAD BOOK. A CLASSIC TRUMP IS HIM, HE 161 00:12:49,736 --> 00:12:52,461 DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING UNTOWARD ABOUT THAT. 162 00:12:52,463 --> 00:12:54,917 HE WAS VERY GRACIOUS, VERY GENEROUS WITH HIS TIME, ANSWERED 163 00:12:54,919 --> 00:13:09,297 QUESTIONS BUT EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE WOULD SLIP IN A THREAD 164 00:13:09,299 --> 00:13:12,564 ABOUT HOW IF IT WAS A BAD BOOK AS HE PUT IT HE WOULD COME AFTER 165 00:13:12,566 --> 00:13:21,724 US AND COME AFTER THE POST. THERE WAS THIS ALTERNATING 166 00:13:21,726 --> 00:13:25,29 GRACIOUSNESS AND TENSION THROUGH THE WHOLE RELATIONSHIP WE HAD 167 00:13:25,31 --> 00:13:24,142 WITH HIM. THIS KIND OF APPROACH, A GOOD 168 00:13:24,144 --> 00:13:26,170 BOOK OR A BAD BOOK, SOMETHING SHOT THROUGH THE BOOK, SHOT 169 00:13:26,172 --> 00:13:30,385 THROUGH HIS LIFE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES HIM DECIDE 170 00:13:30,387 --> 00:13:34,750 WHETHER A BOOK OR ARTICLE IS GOOD OR BAD IS WHETHER IT 171 00:13:34,752 --> 00:13:37,611 QUESTIONS THE EXTENT OF HIS WEALTH. 172 00:13:37,613 --> 00:14:12,943 .. 173 00:14:12,945 --> 00:14:27,510 AWAY DO -- WE DO HAVE WAYS OF COMING TO THE CONCLUSION THAT 174 00:14:27,512 --> 00:14:30,783 HE'S NOT WORTH WHAT HE SAYS HE IS. 175 00:14:30,785 --> 00:14:34,387 AND, IN FACT, IN A DEPOSITION IN THE CASE WHICH WE HAVE AS PART 176 00:14:34,389 --> 00:14:39,859 OF THE ARCHIVE THAT BACKS UP THIS BOOK, TRUMP WAS ASKED 177 00:14:39,861 --> 00:14:43,997 DIRECTLY HOW DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS NUMBER THAT YOU BANDY ABOUT 178 00:14:43,999 --> 00:14:49,601 ABOUT HOW MUCH YOU'RE WORTH? AND HE SAID, QUOTE: IT DEPENDS 179 00:14:49,604 --> 00:14:52,70 ON HOW I FEELEN ON A GIVEN -- FEEL ON A GIVEN DAY. 180 00:14:52,72 --> 00:14:55,140 [LAUGHTER] NOW, THERE'S ACTUALLY SOMETHING 181 00:14:55,143 --> 00:14:58,778 LEGITIMATE ABOUT THAT BECAUSE HIS BRAND IS HIS NAME, AND HIS 182 00:14:58,780 --> 00:15:02,315 NAME IS WHAT GIVES VALUE TO MANY OF HIS PROPERTIES AND OTHER 183 00:15:02,317 --> 00:15:06,52 BUSINESSES, AND SO PEOPLE DECIDE TO STAY AT A TRUMP HOTEL OR GO 184 00:15:06,54 --> 00:15:09,421 TO A TRUMP GOLF COURSE IN PART BECAUSE OF THAT NAME. 185 00:15:09,424 --> 00:15:13,559 SO THERE'S A CLEAR VALUE TO IT. AND PUTTING A NUMBER TO THAT 186 00:15:13,561 --> 00:15:23,328 VALUE IS MORE AN ART THAN A SCIENCE. 187 00:15:23,330 --> 00:15:28,43 BUT HOW HE ASSESSES HIMSELF, TAKES THE ACTUAL ASSESSED VALUE 188 00:15:28,45 --> 00:15:28,128 OF PROPERTIES THAT ANYONE CAN LOOK UP ON THE TAX ROLLS, AND HE 189 00:15:28,130 --> 00:15:34,995 ADDS THE VALUE THAT HE CONNECTS FROM HIS NAME, HIS REPUTATION 190 00:15:34,997 --> 00:15:42,217 AND HIS BRAND. ISSO HE IS A TRICKY FIGURE TO 191 00:15:42,219 --> 00:15:41,65 WRITE ABOUT IN THAT SENSE. IN FACT, WHEN HE WAS -- COMEDY 192 00:15:41,67 --> 00:15:42,955 CENTRAL, THE CABLE CHANNEL, WAS GOING TO DO A ROAST OF DONALD 193 00:15:42,958 --> 00:15:45,857 TRUMP SOME YEARS BACK, AND THE DIRECTIONS WENT OUT TO THE 194 00:15:45,859 --> 00:15:49,861 COMEDIANS WHO WERE GOING TO BE ROASTING HIM THAT, UNLIKE MOST 195 00:15:49,864 --> 00:15:53,295 OF THESE ROASTS, HIS FAMILY IS FAIR GAME. 196 00:15:53,297 --> 00:15:55,301 YOU CAN JOKE ABOUT HIS KIDS, HIS BACKGROUND, ANY OF THAT IS 197 00:15:55,303 --> 00:15:58,638 TOTALLY FAIR. ONLY ONE THING THEY WERE TOLD 198 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,273 THEY MAY NOT JOKE ABOUT, AND THAT WAS THE EXTENT OF HIS 199 00:16:01,276 --> 00:16:03,676 WEALTH. [LAUGHTER] 200 00:16:03,678 --> 00:16:08,181 SO HE'S A TRICKY CHARACTER TO WRITE ABOUT, BUT WE DID HAVE 201 00:16:08,183 --> 00:16:12,617 THIS GREAT TEAM OF FOLKS WHO YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM 202 00:16:12,619 --> 00:16:16,723 TONIGHT, AND I WANT TO TURN OVER TO MICHAEL KRANISH, MY 203 00:16:16,725 --> 00:16:20,158 CO-WRITER, WHO WILL GIVE YOU A COUPLE EXAMPLES OF THE THINGS 204 00:16:20,161 --> 00:16:24,429 THAT MADE DONALD TRUMP WHAT HE ISED TODAY. 205 00:16:24,431 --> 00:16:29,635 WHAT HE IS TODAY. [APPLAUSE] 206 00:16:29,637 --> 00:16:36,676 THANK YOU, MARC. THANK EVERYBODY FOR COMING OUT 207 00:16:36,678 --> 00:16:37,710 HERE. IT'S A GREAT HONOR TO BE PART OF 208 00:16:37,712 --> 00:16:39,177 THIS PROJECT. I DON'T KNOW IF FOLKS KNOW THIS, 209 00:16:39,179 --> 00:16:43,382 BUT WHEN I WAS A KID GROWING UP IN D.C., I WAS A WASHINGTON POST 210 00:16:43,385 --> 00:16:44,883 PAPER BOY FOR ABOUT FIFE YEARS. [LAUGHTER] 211 00:16:44,885 --> 00:16:48,487 -- FIVE YEARS. I'M THRILLED TO BE HERE WORKING 212 00:16:48,489 --> 00:16:52,57 ON THIS PROJECT. I WANT TO TELL YOU A STORY THAT 213 00:16:52,59 --> 00:16:54,60 EXPLAINS WHY I THINK BIOGRAPHY IS SO IMPORTANT IN WRITING ABOUT 214 00:16:54,62 --> 00:16:57,662 A PRESIDENTIAL BE CANDIDATE. WE DO FANTASTIC STORIES, AND 215 00:16:57,664 --> 00:17:00,766 BIOGRAPHY IS SORT OF THE THREAD THAT WE TRY TO PUT TOGETHER. 216 00:17:00,768 --> 00:17:04,103 BECAUSE IN THE CASE OF DONALD TRUMP, YOU HAVE A MAN WHO HAS 217 00:17:04,104 --> 00:17:07,640 NEVER RUN FOR PUBLIC OFFICE OR HELD PUBLIC OFFICE, SO THERE'S 218 00:17:07,641 --> 00:17:10,843 AN AWFUL LOT THAT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT HIM, EVEN THOUGH HE'S ONE 219 00:17:10,844 --> 00:17:13,245 OF THE MOST COVERED FIGURES OF OUR GENERATION. 220 00:17:13,247 --> 00:17:16,948 SO IF YOU LOOK AT A PERSON'S LIFE, HOW THEY'VE DEALT WITH 221 00:17:16,950 --> 00:17:20,19 CRISES, THAT TO ME IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS. 222 00:17:20,20 --> 00:17:23,121 SOMEONE WHO HAS DEALT WITH DARK MOMENTS IN THEIR LIFE AND, 223 00:17:23,123 --> 00:17:26,224 CERTAINLY, DONALD TRUMP FITS THAT CATEGORY VERY, VERY WELL. 224 00:17:26,226 --> 00:17:29,428 SO I WANT TO TAKE YOU TO THE MORNING OF OCTOBER 10TH OF 1989 225 00:17:29,430 --> 00:17:35,896 IN ATLANTIC CITY. IT'S A BRIGHT, SUNNY DAY, AND 226 00:17:35,898 --> 00:17:39,759 THREE OF DONALD TRUMP'S TOP CASINO EXECUTIVES -- HE'S GOT 227 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,507 TWO AT THIS MOMENT X HE'S ABOUT TO OPEN A THIRD, THE TAJ MAHAL. 228 00:17:42,509 --> 00:17:45,3 AND THESE THREE EXECUTIVES ARE ABOUT TO TAKE A HELICOPTER RIDE 229 00:17:45,5 --> 00:17:48,163 TO NEW YORK CITY TO MEET WITH DONALD TRUMP AND TO PROMOTE A 230 00:17:48,165 --> 00:17:52,423 BOXING MATCH TO BE HELD AT ONE OF HIS CASINOS. 231 00:17:52,425 --> 00:17:55,421 SO THE THREE MEN GET ONBOARD A SIKORSKY HELICOPTER, THEY HAVE A 232 00:17:55,422 --> 00:17:58,423 PRESS CONFERENCE AT THE PLAZA HOTEL IN NEW YORK, THEY MEET 233 00:17:58,425 --> 00:18:01,661 WITH DONALD TRUMP AT THE TRUMP TOWER ON THE 26TH FLOOR. 234 00:18:01,662 --> 00:18:05,566 THE MEETING GOES A LITTLE BIT LONG, AND THEY CAN NO LONGER 235 00:18:05,568 --> 00:18:13,583 TAKE THE SIKORSKY BACK TO ATLANTIC CITY, SO THEY TAKE AN 236 00:18:13,585 --> 00:18:20,198 ITALIAN-MADE AUGUSTA HELICOPTER. THEY BOARD THE HELICOPTER, AND A 237 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:21,889 FEW MINUTES INTO THE FLIGHT THEY'RE OVER THE GARDEN STATE 238 00:18:21,891 --> 00:18:25,30 PARKWAY, AND WHAT THEY COULDN'T HAVE KNOWN WAS THAT THERE WAS A 239 00:18:25,31 --> 00:18:27,742 SMALL SCRATCH ON ONE OF THE ROTOR BLADES AND THAT HELICOPTER 240 00:18:27,744 --> 00:18:29,155 BASICALLY BURST APART, AND THE THREE MEN AND THE TWO CREW WERE 241 00:18:29,156 --> 00:18:32,525 KILLED. IT IS ONE OF THE MOST TRAGIC 242 00:18:32,526 --> 00:18:34,427 DAYS IN DONALD TRUMP'S LIFE ASK, CERTAINLY, FOR THE PEOPLE KILLED 243 00:18:34,428 --> 00:18:38,663 IN THAT TRAGEDY. FOR DONALD TRUMP, I ASKED HIM 244 00:18:38,665 --> 00:18:42,201 ABOUT THIS, I TALKED TO HIM EXTENSIVELY ABOUT THIS INCIDENT, 245 00:18:42,203 --> 00:18:52,890 AND HE DOES SAY ASIDE FROM THE DEATHS OF HIS PARENTS AND HIS 246 00:18:52,892 --> 00:18:56,315 BROTHER, FRED JR., THIS WAS THE MOST DIFFICULT DAY OF HIS LIFE. 247 00:18:56,317 --> 00:18:58,321 THESE MEN WERE IN CHARGE OF MAKING SURE HE WOULD BE 248 00:18:58,323 --> 00:18:59,899 SUCCESSFUL. DONALD TRUMP HAD BUILT SOME 249 00:18:59,901 --> 00:19:00,557 BUILDINGS IN NEW YORK CITY, AND HE WAS TAKING A BIG GAMBLE IN 250 00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:04,972 ATLANTIC CITY. AT THAT TIME THIS WAS THE ONLY 251 00:19:04,974 --> 00:19:06,164 LEGAL CASINO OPERATION ON THE EAST COAST, SO HE HAD TWO 252 00:19:06,166 --> 00:19:08,961 CASINOS, WAS ABOUT TO OPEN A THIRD, AND SUDDENLY THE PEOPLE 253 00:19:08,963 --> 00:19:11,307 WHO WERE IN CHARGE OF THAT HAD PERISHED. 254 00:19:11,309 --> 00:19:18,666 DONALD TRUMP HAD NOT REALLY FOCUSED HIMSELF ON THAT 255 00:19:18,668 --> 00:19:22,66 BUSINESS. IN FACT, AT THE TIME HE WAS 256 00:19:22,68 --> 00:19:25,470 HAVING AN AFFAIR WITH MARLA MAPLES, AND AS HE SAID IN 257 00:19:25,472 --> 00:19:28,437 INTERVIEWS FOR THIS BOOK, HE HAD TAKEN HIS EYE OFF THE BALL, AND 258 00:19:28,439 --> 00:19:30,601 SUDDENLY HE REALIZED HE WAS IN DEEP, DEEP TROUBLE. 259 00:19:30,603 --> 00:19:31,840 SO THERE WAS ONE PERSON HE GOT A PHONE CALL FROM SHORTLY AFTER 260 00:19:31,842 --> 00:19:36,194 THE ACCIDENT. THAT MAN'S NAME WAS JOHN 261 00:19:36,196 --> 00:19:37,504 O'DONNELL, AND O'DONNELL WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEEN ON THE 262 00:19:37,505 --> 00:19:41,772 HELICOPTER RIDE, BUT INSTEAD HE WAS IN HAWAII COMPETING IN AN 263 00:19:41,774 --> 00:19:43,62 ATHLETIC EVENT, AND HE'D SENT A JUNIOR EXECUTIVE. 264 00:19:43,63 --> 00:19:47,95 DONALD NOW BASICALLY HAD ALL THIS OPERATION ON HIS SHOULDERS, 265 00:19:47,97 --> 00:19:49,702 AND DONALD TRUMP MET WITH HIM WHEN HE CAME BACK FROM HAWAII, 266 00:19:49,703 --> 00:19:52,171 AND HE SAID NOW IT'S YOUR TURN, AND THEN HE SAID, DON'T LEAVE 267 00:19:52,172 --> 00:19:56,641 ME. AND O'DONNELL LATER SAID THIS 268 00:19:56,643 --> 00:19:59,946 WAS THE FIRST TIME HE'D SEEN SUCH FEAR AND UNCERTAINTY IN 269 00:19:59,947 --> 00:20:03,482 DONALD TRUMP'S EYES AND VOICE. AND LONG STORY SHORT BECAUSE I 270 00:20:03,484 --> 00:20:06,84 WANT TO GIVE EVERYBODY A CHANCE TO TALK AND QUESTIONS AND SO 271 00:20:06,86 --> 00:20:09,421 FORTH. WHAT HAPPENED NEXT WAS THINGS 272 00:20:09,423 --> 00:20:13,558 HAD GOTTEN SO BAD, DONALD TRUMP HAD GONE SO DEEPLY IN DEBT THAT 273 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,462 THERE WERE GREAT, GREAT PROBLEMS DESPITE THE PUBLIC ACCLAIM FOR 274 00:20:16,463 --> 00:20:19,197 THE OPENING OF THE TAJ MAHAL, AND PRETTY SOON ALL THREE 275 00:20:19,199 --> 00:20:23,836 CASINOS WENT INTO BANKRUPTCY, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE FIRED. 276 00:20:23,838 --> 00:20:28,73 DONALD TRUMP SAID SOMEBODY WHO WAS RUNNING THE CASINO BE HAD A 277 00:20:28,75 --> 00:20:30,977 TYPE C PERSONALITY, AND HE BLAMED OTHERS. 278 00:20:30,979 --> 00:20:33,713 BUT AS I MENTIONED, HE ALSO TOLD US HE'D TAKEN HIS EYE OFF THE 279 00:20:33,714 --> 00:20:37,782 BALL. WE TELL THE STORY ABOUT HOW HE 280 00:20:37,784 --> 00:20:41,319 MANAGED TO SURVIVE THE ORDEAL OF HIS CAREER IN ATLANTIC CITY, AND 281 00:20:41,321 --> 00:20:44,22 THE FACT THAT HE DID SURVIVE TELLS YOU SOMETHING. 282 00:20:44,24 --> 00:20:47,260 HE BASICALLY HAD TO LOOK OUT FOR HIMSELF, AND AS HE TOLD US, I 283 00:20:47,261 --> 00:20:51,97 WAS LOOKING OUT FOR DONALD TRUMP, I NEEDED TO SURVIVE, AND 284 00:20:51,98 --> 00:20:52,397 THAT'S WHAT MATTERED AT THE MOMENT. 285 00:20:52,399 --> 00:20:56,1 AND HE DID SURVIVE. SO WITH THAT STORY, YOU 286 00:20:56,3 --> 00:20:58,136 UNDERSTAND WHY THOSE WHO UNDERESTIMATE HIM WOULD DO SO AT 287 00:20:58,138 --> 00:21:00,239 THEIR PERIL. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. 288 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:08,180 [APPLAUSE] SO I'M GOING TO TURN TO SOME 289 00:21:08,182 --> 00:21:11,683 OF THE OTHER REPORTERS WHO WORKED ON THE BOOK. 290 00:21:11,685 --> 00:21:15,520 BOB O'HARE ROW WAS A REPORTER IN THE POST INVESTIGATIONS UNIT, 291 00:21:15,522 --> 00:21:19,25 AND HE DID SOME OF THE VERY DIFFICULT DOCUMENT WORK ON THIS 292 00:21:19,26 --> 00:21:22,590 BOOK AS WELL AS FINDING SOME PEOPLE WHO WOULD TALK ABOUT THAT 293 00:21:22,592 --> 00:21:26,722 PERIOD THAT MICHAEL WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT IN ATLANTIC CITY. 294 00:21:26,724 --> 00:21:29,100 SOME VERY ROUGH TIMES FOR DONALD TRUMP. 295 00:21:29,102 --> 00:21:34,679 AND, BOB, YOU LEARNED A LOT ABOUT TRUMP'S BUSINESS STYLE AND 296 00:21:34,681 --> 00:21:38,30 ABOUT THE KINDS OF CHARACTERS HE WAS WILLING TO ASSOCIATE HIMSELF 297 00:21:38,31 --> 00:21:41,692 WITH IN ORDER TO GET A START IN A VERY ROUGH AND TUMBLE OF 298 00:21:41,694 --> 00:21:43,171 ATLANTIC CITY'S CASINO WORLD. TALK TO US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT 299 00:21:43,173 --> 00:21:51,248 THAT. IT'S ACTUALLY REMARKABLE 300 00:21:51,250 --> 00:21:50,689 BECAUSE IT WAS A LONG TIME AGO, BUT IT FEELS VERY FRESH. 301 00:21:50,691 --> 00:21:53,125 AND I THINK PREDICTIVE IN SOME WAYS ABOUT THE TYPE OF 302 00:21:53,126 --> 00:21:56,529 PERSONALITY THAT HE IS. PROBABLY THE MOST FORMIDABLE 303 00:21:56,531 --> 00:22:01,67 CHARACTER THAT HE CONNECTED HIMSELF WITH WAS ROY COHN, AND 304 00:22:01,68 --> 00:22:04,203 IF PEOPLE DON'T REMEMBER ROY COHN, HE'S WORTH LOOKING INTO. 305 00:22:04,204 --> 00:22:07,885 HE WAS THE BRAINS BEHIND THE MCCARTHY HEARINGS IN THE 306 00:22:07,887 --> 00:22:14,312 '50S. AND HE WAS A BRILLIANT, 307 00:22:14,314 --> 00:22:19,3 SOMETHING OF A PRODIGY AS A YOUNG MAN AND WAS PRETTY MUCH A 308 00:22:19,5 --> 00:22:26,492 SAVAGE LEGAL MIND WHO FOCUSED ON ATTACKING AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE 309 00:22:26,494 --> 00:22:31,386 AND NEVER APOLOGIZING. AND HE RAN INTO TRUMP IN EARLY 310 00:22:31,388 --> 00:22:34,810 '70S, AND TRUMP EMBRACED HIM, AND THEY BECAME, THEY DEVELOPED 311 00:22:34,812 --> 00:22:40,581 AN INTERESTING RELATIONSHIP THAT WAS BOTH LEGAL AND A FRIENDSHIP. 312 00:22:40,583 --> 00:22:42,795 AND COHN SORT OF SQUIRED HIM AROUND NEW YORK, INTRODUCED HIM 313 00:22:42,797 --> 00:22:46,781 TO A LOT OF POWERFUL PEOPLE. AND I THINK THAT THAT WAS 314 00:22:46,782 --> 00:22:52,254 PROBABLY, SET THE TONE FOR MUCH OF THE REST OF HIS CAREER. 315 00:22:52,256 --> 00:22:57,502 COHN REPRESENTED HIM THROUGH THE '80S, AND THERE ARE QUALITIES 316 00:22:57,504 --> 00:23:01,830 THAT WE SEE IN DONALD TRUMP NOW, SOME OF THE HARSHER QUALITIES 317 00:23:01,832 --> 00:23:04,340 THAT ARE REMARKABLY SIMILAR TO ROY COHN'S METHODS AND DEMEANOR. 318 00:23:04,342 --> 00:23:05,765 AND JUST BRIEFLY, TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT ASSEMBLING THE 319 00:23:05,766 --> 00:23:11,203 DOCUMENTS THAT GAVE US INSIGHTS INTO TRUMP'S FINANCES IN THAT 320 00:23:11,205 --> 00:23:15,241 PERIOD. OH, THERE'S A MASSIVE TROVE 321 00:23:15,243 --> 00:23:16,797 OF INFORMATION, AND WE PROBABLY TAPPED, WELL, WE TAPPED A LOT OF 322 00:23:16,799 --> 00:23:21,708 IT, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF MATERIAL TO BE EXAMINED. 323 00:23:21,710 --> 00:23:28,731 ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE FOUND IS THAT DONALD TRUMP HAS 324 00:23:28,733 --> 00:23:32,307 SURROUNDED HIMSELF IN COMPLEXITY AND KIND OF A CLOUD OF OBSCURITY 325 00:23:32,308 --> 00:23:35,465 THROUGHOUT HIS CAREER. DEALS ARE COMPLEX, ANSWERS ARE 326 00:23:35,467 --> 00:23:39,496 COMPLEX AND VAGUE OFTEN TIMES, AND THE DOCUMENTS THAT WE WERE 327 00:23:39,498 --> 00:23:42,875 ABLE THE COMPILE PARTICULARLY FROM THE CASINO CONTROL 328 00:23:42,877 --> 00:23:49,164 COMMISSION IN NEW JERSEY HELPED US TO CUT THROUGH THE FOG OF 329 00:23:49,166 --> 00:23:50,692 OBFUSCATION AND TO GET TO PARTICULARS. 330 00:23:50,694 --> 00:23:55,475 AND THE ONE THAT WAS MOST STRIKING TO ME -- AND IT WAS SO 331 00:23:55,477 --> 00:24:01,618 STRIKING I ACTUALLY DID NOT BELIEVE IT FOR A WHILE UNTIL I 332 00:24:01,620 --> 00:24:06,387 REPORTED IT THOROUGHLY AND REALIZED IT WAS TRUE, WAS THAT 333 00:24:06,389 --> 00:24:09,302 WHEN DONALD TRUMP WAS TRYING TO GET HIS THIRD CASINO, THE TAJ, 334 00:24:09,304 --> 00:24:13,498 HE HAD TO SHOW THAT HE WAS FINANCIALLY CAPABLE OF MANAGING 335 00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:19,794 HIMSELF AND MAKING IT THRIVE. AND HE PROMISED THE REGULATORS 336 00:24:19,796 --> 00:24:25,189 THAT HE WAS NOT GOING TO USE JUNK BONDS TO FINANCE THE TAJ. 337 00:24:25,191 --> 00:24:29,598 AND IN THE, HIS TESTIMONY WHICH IS IN BLACK AND WHITE, YOU CAN 338 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:36,955 ACTUALLY READ IT ONLINE, HE SAYS THAT PEOPLE THAT USE JUNK BONDS 339 00:24:36,957 --> 00:24:36,495 ARE LOSERS, IN EFFECT, AND THAT THEY'RE STUPID, AND THAT 340 00:24:36,497 --> 00:24:39,128 COMPANIES THAT USE JUNK BONDS ARE, IN EFFECT, JUNK. 341 00:24:39,130 --> 00:24:43,211 AND IT WAS ONLY -- AND THEY APPROVED HIS MOVE TO GO FORWARD, 342 00:24:43,213 --> 00:24:46,120 AND IT WAS ONLY A FEW MONTHS LATER THAT HE COULD NOT RAISE 343 00:24:46,122 --> 00:24:47,414 THE MONEY AT THE LOW PRIME RATES THAT HE HAD PROMISED AND USED 344 00:24:47,416 --> 00:24:50,769 JUNK BONDS. AND IN MAKING THAT DECISION AND 345 00:24:50,770 --> 00:24:59,292 ACTUALLY SIGNING OFF ON THOSE JUNK BONDS, HE SEALED HIS FATE 346 00:24:59,294 --> 00:25:00,54 AND HIS WHOLE EMPIRE WAS ALMOST CERTAIN TO GO DOWN THE TUBES AS 347 00:25:00,56 --> 00:25:04,349 WAS PREDICTED BY A FINANCIAL ANALYST WHO WAS WATCHING 348 00:25:04,351 --> 00:25:07,619 EVERYTHING VERY CLOSELY. SO THAT'S THE KIND OF DETAIL WE 349 00:25:07,621 --> 00:25:10,489 WERE ABLE TO MINE TO GET TO THE PARTICULARS RATHER THAN THE 350 00:25:10,490 --> 00:25:13,826 GENERALITIES THAT HAD SURROUNDED HIM AND THAT HE SURROUNDED 351 00:25:13,828 --> 00:25:17,363 HIMSELF WITH. MARY JORDAN IS THE NATIONAL 352 00:25:17,364 --> 00:25:20,865 REPORTER AT THE POST WHO LED THE GROUP OF REPORTERS WHO LOOKED 353 00:25:20,867 --> 00:25:25,104 INTO DONALD TRUMP'S FAMILY, HIS RELATIONSHIPS WITH HIS WIVES, 354 00:25:25,105 --> 00:25:29,775 THREE WIVES AND HIS FIVE CHILDREN, AND AS PART OF THAT WE 355 00:25:29,776 --> 00:25:31,543 MADE AN EFFORT TO TALK TO ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE. 356 00:25:31,545 --> 00:25:33,779 TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT THAT WAS LIKE AND WHAT CAME OUT 357 00:25:33,781 --> 00:25:35,980 OF I IT. SO I GOT THE WOMEN. 358 00:25:35,982 --> 00:25:40,985 [LAUGHTER] AND KAREN HELLER IS HERE, 359 00:25:40,987 --> 00:25:42,755 ANOTHER GREAT REPORTER, AND BOY, WAS THAT INTERESTING. 360 00:25:42,756 --> 00:25:46,391 OKAY. THERES HAS NEVER BEEN A 361 00:25:46,393 --> 00:25:48,260 PRESIDENT WHO HAS THREE WIVES ALIVE WALKING AROUND. 362 00:25:48,261 --> 00:25:50,828 [LAUGHTER] THAT'S NEVER HAPPENED, RIGHT? 363 00:25:50,830 --> 00:25:53,165 AND WHERE ARE THEY? WE KNOW EVERYTHING. 364 00:25:53,166 --> 00:25:56,501 THIS GUY IS ON THE AIR ALL THE TIME. 365 00:25:56,503 --> 00:26:01,307 WHERE IS HIS FIRST WIFE, IVANA, THE FAMOUS ONE WHO WAS THE ONE, 366 00:26:01,308 --> 00:26:06,744 IN FACT, FROM THE FORMER CZECHOSLOVAKIA WHO COINED THE 367 00:26:06,746 --> 00:26:10,381 TERM, THE DONALD. SHE'S ALSO THE ONE WHEN THEY HAD 368 00:26:10,383 --> 00:26:15,487 A WICKED, WICKED PUBLIC DIVORCE, IT WAS ON THE COVER EVERY DAY OF 369 00:26:15,489 --> 00:26:20,538 TABLOIDS, SAID DON'T GET MAD, GET EVERYTHING. 370 00:26:20,540 --> 00:26:22,657 [LAUGHTER] OKAY. 371 00:26:22,659 --> 00:26:25,36 THIS WOMAN LIKES TO TALK, AND SHE'S JUST DISAPPEARED. 372 00:26:25,38 --> 00:26:27,228 NEVER SEE HER. SECOND WIFE, SHE'S STILL ALIVE, 373 00:26:27,230 --> 00:26:29,158 SHE'S BEEN MARRIED FOUR TIMES AND DONALD WENT TO HER FOURTH 374 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,918 WEDDING. BUT MARLA MAPLES COMES ALONG, 375 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,484 AND HE'S STILL MARRIED INCONVENIENTLY TO THE FIRST 376 00:26:35,486 --> 00:26:39,760 WOMAN, AND SO THIS WAS HIDDEN FOR A WHILE, BUT THEN THERE WAS 377 00:26:39,761 --> 00:26:42,246 THIS BIG SCENE IN ASPEN AT CHRISTMAS TIME, AND THE TWO 378 00:26:42,248 --> 00:26:44,550 WOMEN WERE FIGHTING OVER DONALD. HE LOVED IT. 379 00:26:44,552 --> 00:26:47,885 IT WAS IN THE PAPER. AT THAT TIME HE WASN'T RUNNING 380 00:26:47,887 --> 00:26:51,723 FOR OFFICE X HE LOVED, LOVED THAT WOMEN -- HE WAS ON PAGE 6 381 00:26:51,725 --> 00:26:55,860 IN THE TABLOIDS IN NEW YORK. IN FACT, MANY, MANY PEOPLE WE 382 00:26:55,862 --> 00:26:58,663 TALKED TO SAID HE CULTIVATED THIS. 383 00:26:58,665 --> 00:27:02,67 HE LOVED BEING IN THE NEWSPAPER ABOUT THIS, THIS WOMAN. 384 00:27:02,68 --> 00:27:04,902 AND AND NOW ALONG CAME -- AND THAT WOMAN. 385 00:27:04,904 --> 00:27:08,941 AND ALONG CAME MARLA MAPLES WITH A GREAT NAME, FORMER BEAUTY 386 00:27:08,942 --> 00:27:13,779 PAGEANT WINNER IN GEORGIA. IT WASN'T EVEN, LIKE, MISS 387 00:27:13,781 --> 00:27:16,948 GEORGIA, IT'S LIKE MISS PEACH. [LAUGHTER] 388 00:27:16,950 --> 00:27:23,322 BUT SHE WAS VERY, OBVIOUSLY, VERY GOOD LOOKING AND YOUNGER, 389 00:27:23,323 --> 00:27:25,923 AND IN THE END HE GOT DIVORCED FROM IVANA, MARRIED MARLA. 390 00:27:25,925 --> 00:27:28,26 WHERE IS SHE? SHE'S GONE. 391 00:27:28,28 --> 00:27:31,162 YOU DON'T SEE HER AT ALL DURING THIS CAMPAIGN. 392 00:27:31,164 --> 00:27:35,868 IT IS REALLY STUNNING. ESPECIALLY -- AND THE LAST THING 393 00:27:35,869 --> 00:27:39,571 I JUST POSTED A STORY A COUPLE HOURS AGO, TODAY, ABOUT HIS 394 00:27:39,572 --> 00:27:42,640 CURRENT WIFE -- OR I SHOULD SAY HIS THIRD WIFE, BECAUSE IF YOU 395 00:27:42,642 --> 00:27:46,10 SAY CURRENT WIFE, SOMETIMES PEOPLE THINK THERE'S MORE 396 00:27:46,12 --> 00:27:50,448 COMING. [LAUGHTER] 397 00:27:50,450 --> 00:27:56,287 BUT ANYWAY, SO HIS THIRD WIFE, MELANIA TRUMP, SHE WAS MISS -- 398 00:27:56,289 --> 00:28:01,361 SHE HAS NOD BEEN HEARD OF SINCE THE -- NOT BEEN HEARD OF SINCE 399 00:28:01,363 --> 00:28:06,223 THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION ON THE 21ST OF JULY. 400 00:28:06,225 --> 00:28:07,917 WE'RE IN THE HOME STRETCH OF A PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN WHERE IF 401 00:28:07,919 --> 00:28:09,757 HE WINS, SHE IS THE FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES. 402 00:28:09,759 --> 00:28:13,346 SHE HAS AN OFFICE IN THE WHITE HOUSE, SHE HAS A PUBLIC 403 00:28:13,348 --> 00:28:15,303 PLATFORM, AND SHE HAS LITERALLY GONE SILENT. 404 00:28:15,305 --> 00:28:19,510 IT'S VERY, VERY UNUSUAL. AS MANY THINGS IN THIS CAMPAIGN 405 00:28:19,512 --> 00:28:22,814 ARE UNUSUAL. OKAY. 406 00:28:22,816 --> 00:28:27,385 SO THREE WIVES, ALL OF THEM ARE NOT TALKING WHILE THE KIDS ARE. 407 00:28:27,387 --> 00:28:32,708 BUT JUST IF I COULD FOR A MINUTE, LET'S ROLL BACK, A BOOK 408 00:28:32,710 --> 00:28:43,730 ON HIS LIFE ABOUT WHAT IT USED TO BE ABOUT DONALD AND WOMEN. 409 00:28:43,732 --> 00:28:51,809 HE USED TO GO ON HOWARD STERN, FOR INSTANCE. 410 00:28:51,811 --> 00:28:55,665 HE WAS THE SHOCK JOCK. AND HE'D GO ON ALL THE TIME. 411 00:28:55,667 --> 00:29:02,116 AND STERN WOULD SAY, DONALD, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT DIANE 412 00:29:02,118 --> 00:29:03,101 SAWYER, WOULD YOU DO HER, YOU KNOW? 413 00:29:03,103 --> 00:29:05,181 AND ALL THIS KIND OF TALK. AND IT WAS MUCH MORE GRAPHIC 414 00:29:05,183 --> 00:29:08,424 THAN THAT. AND HE WAS ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT 415 00:29:08,426 --> 00:29:12,911 WOMEN, HE WAS ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT HOW PRINCESS DIANA GOT 416 00:29:12,913 --> 00:29:18,322 AWAY FROM HIM, YOU KNOW, IF HE ONLY HAD A CHANCE REALLY TO GO, 417 00:29:18,323 --> 00:29:22,192 YOU KNOW? BUT WOMEN DEFINED HIM. 418 00:29:22,193 --> 00:29:26,697 AND I THINK WHEN WE TALK TO PEOPLE WHO KNOW HIM, KNEW HIM IN 419 00:29:26,698 --> 00:29:29,233 THE '80S, THE '90S, THEY SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT? 420 00:29:29,234 --> 00:29:31,667 THERE WERE A LOT OF RICH PEOPLE IN NEW YORK. 421 00:29:31,669 --> 00:29:34,571 THERE WERE A LOT OF RICH PEOPLE WHO HAD BUILDINGS IN NEW YORK, 422 00:29:34,572 --> 00:29:37,560 BUT THERE WAS ONLY ONE DONALD TRUMP WHO WAS ALWAYS IN THE 423 00:29:37,562 --> 00:29:37,346 PAPER WITH SOME OTHER BABE WHO WANTED HIM, AND THAT WAS A 424 00:29:37,348 --> 00:29:39,56 DIRECT QUOTE FROM SOMEONE WHO KNEW HIM. 425 00:29:39,58 --> 00:29:41,811 SO I THINK FOR A LONG TIME WOMEN GOT ATTENTION FOR DONALD TRUMP. 426 00:29:41,812 --> 00:29:41,735 AND FOR SOME REASON, I THINK HE LIKED ATTENTION. 427 00:29:41,737 --> 00:29:45,647 [LAUGHTER] AND I THINK THAT HE, WHEN YOU GO 428 00:29:45,649 --> 00:29:45,420 TO HIS OFFICE, I'VE INTERVIEWED HIM IN HIS OFFICE, AND I'VE 429 00:29:45,422 --> 00:29:48,895 TALKED TO MELANIA ON THE PHONE, IT'S VERY STRIKING THAT THERE'S 430 00:29:48,897 --> 00:29:49,935 ONLY REALLY GOOD LOOKING WOMEN IN THE OFFICE. 431 00:29:49,937 --> 00:29:54,72 HE TALKS ABOUT WOMEN'S APPEARANCES NONSTOP. 432 00:29:54,73 --> 00:29:58,10 I MEAN, HE'S 70 YEARS OLD, AND I KNOW A LOT OF OLDER PEOPLE 433 00:29:58,11 --> 00:30:01,213 OFTEN, YOU KNOW, WHEN THEY SEE SOMEBODY, THEY SAY IT, BUT IT'S 434 00:30:01,214 --> 00:30:04,583 VERY UNUSUAL TO HAVE A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE -- AND 435 00:30:04,584 --> 00:30:06,552 HE'S GETTING TRIPPED UP ON THIS EVERY SO OFTEN, BECAUSE 436 00:30:06,553 --> 00:30:10,88 APPEARANCES DO MATTER. SO IN CONTRAST TO THE OLD DAYS 437 00:30:10,89 --> 00:30:13,391 WHERE HE JUST LOVED TALKING ABOUT DONALD TRUMP AND WOMEN, WE 438 00:30:13,393 --> 00:30:17,729 DON'T HEAR FROM THEM ANYMORE. MARY HAD AN ESPECIALLY 439 00:30:17,730 --> 00:30:27,916 REVEALING INTERVIEW WITH DONALD TRUMP'S LAWYER ABOUT THIS 440 00:30:27,918 --> 00:30:31,526 QUESTION OF HOW -- TRUMP HAD SPENT YEARS AND YEARS 441 00:30:31,528 --> 00:30:34,11 CULTIVATING THIS PLAYBOY IMAGE AND INVITING REPORTERS TO COME 442 00:30:34,13 --> 00:30:34,656 OUT AND SEE HIM AT A CLUB WHEN HE WOULD BE THERE WITH THE 443 00:30:34,658 --> 00:30:40,502 PRETTIEST MODELS. AND YET HIS LAWYER TOLD YOU WHEN 444 00:30:40,504 --> 00:30:41,345 THE CAMERAS WERE TURNED OFF, IT WAS ACTUALLY A VERY DIFFERENT 445 00:30:41,347 --> 00:30:45,791 KIND OF DYNAMIC. WELL, HE WOULD GO TO ALL THE 446 00:30:45,792 --> 00:30:49,193 NIGHTCLUB OPENINGS, STUDIO 54 IN THE DAY. 447 00:30:49,195 --> 00:30:53,432 ESPECIALLY DURING THIS GAP WHEN HE WASN'T MARRIED, AFTER MARLA 448 00:30:53,433 --> 00:31:09,280 MAPLES AND BEFORE MELANIA, THAT HE WASN'T MARRIED. 449 00:31:09,282 --> 00:31:12,143 AND HE BLITZED THE SCENE. BUT HE WAS VERY CAREFUL ABOUT 450 00:31:12,145 --> 00:31:15,473 HOW HE SPENT HIS TIME, BECAUSE IT WAS WHERE THERE WERE CAMERAS. 451 00:31:15,475 --> 00:31:17,362 AND HE WAS ALWAYS WITH MODELS. HE WOULD CALL MODELING AGENCIES 452 00:31:17,364 --> 00:31:20,257 UP AND, IN FACT, WHEN HE HAD PARTIES, MAKE SURE THAT HIS OWN 453 00:31:20,259 --> 00:31:19,900 PARTIES HAD A RATIO OF 5 TO 1, GORGEOUS WOMEN TO MEN. 454 00:31:19,902 --> 00:31:21,614 YOU KNOW, CONSTANTLY SURROUNDING HIMSELF WITH WOMEN AND AT 455 00:31:21,616 --> 00:31:25,647 OPENINGS. SO I SAID TO HIS LAWYER, YOU 456 00:31:25,649 --> 00:31:25,302 KNOW, HOW DID HE HAVE TIME FOR THIS? 457 00:31:25,304 --> 00:31:29,322 HE'S ALWAYS TELLING MANY ME THAT HE'S WORK -- HOW COULD I DO ALL 458 00:31:29,324 --> 00:31:33,74 THIS STUFF, MARY? I MEAN, I'M WORKING. 459 00:31:33,76 --> 00:31:35,224 I HAVE ALL THIS MONEY AND RESPONSIBILITY, I HAVE GREAT 460 00:31:35,226 --> 00:31:36,427 BUILDINGS, HAVE YOU SEEN MY GREAT BUILDINGS? 461 00:31:36,428 --> 00:31:39,261 [LAUGHTER] THIS IS HOW HE TALKS, HOW COULD 462 00:31:39,263 --> 00:31:42,911 I POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN WITH ALL THESE WOMEN? 463 00:31:42,913 --> 00:31:44,149 SO ASKED DICK GOLDBERG, AND HE AGREED COMPLETELY. 464 00:31:44,151 --> 00:31:48,52 HE SAID, ACTUALLY, HE'S ON THE TRUMP TOWER AND HE WORKS IN PART 465 00:31:48,54 --> 00:31:50,855 OF IT, HE REALLY JUST LIKES TO TAKE THE ELEVATOR UP AND TURN ON 466 00:31:50,857 --> 00:31:53,991 THE TUBE AND WATCH TV. SO I SAID THIS TO TRUMP AND 467 00:31:53,993 --> 00:31:59,130 TRUMP SAID, WELL, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT WASN'T AS GLAMOROUS AS 468 00:31:59,132 --> 00:32:02,166 IT'S OUT TO BE. I MEAN, IMAGE, YOU KNOW, HE WAS 469 00:32:02,168 --> 00:32:06,771 GREAT AT GETTING ATTENTION. I MEAN, HOW MANY WOMEN DID HE 470 00:32:06,773 --> 00:32:08,707 REALLY IS HAVE AND HOW MUCH TV? I DON'T KNOW. 471 00:32:08,708 --> 00:32:18,951 [LAUGHTER] ROBERT SAMUELS LOOKED INTO 472 00:32:18,953 --> 00:32:23,788 THE TRANSITION DONALD TRUMP MADE FROM CELEBRITY INTO POLITICIAN, 473 00:32:23,790 --> 00:32:27,993 SO TELL US A LITTLE -- DID HE SEE THIS AS A COMPLETELY 474 00:32:27,994 --> 00:32:30,94 DIFFERENT KIND OF PURSUIT, OR WAS IT KIND OF A NATURAL 475 00:32:30,96 --> 00:32:32,931 PROGRESSION FOR HIM? RIGHT. 476 00:32:32,932 --> 00:32:37,168 WELL, ONE OF THE GOVERNING QUESTIONS THAT I WAS REALLY 477 00:32:37,170 --> 00:32:39,404 INTERESTED IN FINDING WAS WHY IS THIS MAN DOING THIS? 478 00:32:39,406 --> 00:32:43,76 [LAUGHTER] AND IT WAS VERY CLEAR FROM 479 00:32:43,78 --> 00:32:49,771 SPEAKING WITH PEOPLE WHO KNEW HIM THAT AT SOME POINT HE DIDN'T 480 00:32:49,773 --> 00:32:55,444 REALIZE THE PHENOMENON AND THE MOVEMENT THAT THAT WE'VE SEEN 481 00:32:55,446 --> 00:33:00,751 SWEEP ACROSS THE COUNTRY. WHAT WE KNOW THROUGH HIS 482 00:33:00,753 --> 00:33:06,0 POLITICAL LIFE AND AFFILIATION IS THAT HE DIDN'T REALLY HAVE 483 00:33:06,2 --> 00:33:14,223 MUCH STOMACH FOR PARTISAN PRINCIPLES. 484 00:33:14,225 --> 00:33:16,958 BETWEEN 1999 AND 2012, HE CHANGED POLITICAL PARTIES SEVEN 485 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:18,882 TIMES. [LAUGHTER] 486 00:33:18,884 --> 00:33:23,624 HE'S DONATED BETWEEN 1995 AND 2012, HE DONATED $3.1 MILLION BY 487 00:33:23,626 --> 00:33:20,735 HIMSELF WITHOUT LOOKING AT HIS COMPANIES TO ALL SORTS OF OLD 488 00:33:20,737 --> 00:33:23,608 DECISIONS. HE DONATED TO CLINTON, HE 489 00:33:23,610 --> 00:33:27,675 DONATED TO CARTER. HE LOVED RONALD REAGAN. 490 00:33:27,677 --> 00:33:31,489 SO WHAT IS THIS ABOUT REALLY? AND TO DO THAT, WE STARTED 491 00:33:31,491 --> 00:33:35,192 LOOKING AT LOTS AND LOTS OF FOOTAGE AND INTERVIEWS THAT HE'S 492 00:33:35,194 --> 00:33:39,331 DONE OVER THE YEARS, AND WE TALKED SOME PEOPLE INTO SHOWING 493 00:33:39,333 --> 00:33:45,636 US THE UNAIRED, UNEDITED VERSIONS OF THESE TAPES. 494 00:33:45,638 --> 00:33:49,807 AND EARLY ON FROM HIS VERY FIRST MAJOR NETWORK TELEVISION 495 00:33:49,809 --> 00:33:52,77 INTERVIEW THIS 1980 -- IN 1980, WE SEE A THEME THAT STARTS TO 496 00:33:52,78 --> 00:33:54,746 EMERGE. HE'S TALKING ABOUT A BUILDING, 497 00:33:54,748 --> 00:33:58,749 AND THEN HE BEGINS TO RAIL ON THE IDEA THAT AMERICA'S BEING 498 00:33:58,751 --> 00:34:01,952 LAUGHED AT, THAT THERE'S SOMETHING THAT'S HAPPENING IN 499 00:34:01,954 --> 00:34:06,131 THE POLITICAL SYSTEM WHERE LEADERS AREN'T STRONG ENOUGH 500 00:34:06,133 --> 00:34:09,960 LIKE THEY USED TO BE. AND HE BEGINS TO PONDER WHETHER 501 00:34:09,962 --> 00:34:15,734 OR NOT POLITICIANS TODAY CAN BE LIKE AN ABRAHAM LINCOLN, ASK HE 502 00:34:15,736 --> 00:34:19,237 SAYS ABRAHAM LINCOLN COULD NEVER WIN THIS 1980 BECAUSE HE WAS TOO 503 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:23,142 UGLY, HE DID NOT LOOK GOOD ON TV, AND HE DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO 504 00:34:23,144 --> 00:34:37,478 MASTER THE MEDIA. AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED 505 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:43,62 STATES IN THIS MODERN ERA NEEDS TO KNOW HOW TO DO THESE SKILLS. 506 00:34:43,64 --> 00:34:47,600 AND SO WHAT WE SEE OVER THE COURSE OF TIME IS DONALD TRUMP 507 00:34:47,602 --> 00:34:54,409 ASSESSING POLITICIANS AND PRESIDENTS ON THEIR ABILITY TO 508 00:34:54,411 --> 00:34:57,299 AFFECT MESSAGES, TO COMMUNICATE MESSAGES EFFECTIVELY AND TO 509 00:34:57,301 --> 00:35:00,944 FIGURE OUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY MAKE THE COUNTRY FEEL GREAT 510 00:35:00,946 --> 00:35:03,114 AGAIN. AND EVERYONE DOES A PRETTY OKAY 511 00:35:03,116 --> 00:35:05,95 JOB UNTIL OBAMA WHO HE CONSIDERS A TOTAL DISASTER. 512 00:35:05,97 --> 00:35:08,466 BY THIS POINT IN 2012, DONALD TRUMP HAS MASTERED THE CELEBRITY 513 00:35:08,468 --> 00:35:10,554 THAT HE SAID THOSE GREAT MINDS IN 1980 DID NOT MASTER. 514 00:35:10,556 --> 00:35:13,892 HE'S BECOME THE STAR OF "THE APPRENTICE," HE HAS THIS TWITTER 515 00:35:13,894 --> 00:35:15,894 FOLLOWING THAT EVERYONE ENJOYS BECAUSE HE'S TALKING ABOUT 516 00:35:15,895 --> 00:35:19,131 EVERYTHING FROM WHETHER OR NOT BARACK OBAMA'S FROM THE UNITED 517 00:35:19,133 --> 00:35:21,633 STATES TO WHETHER OR NOT KATY PERRY'S MARRIAGES ARE GOING TO 518 00:35:21,635 --> 00:35:24,269 WORK OUT. [LAUGHTER] 519 00:35:24,270 --> 00:35:29,474 AND HE DECIDES THAT HE IS, IN FACT, THE PERSON WHO COULD BEST 520 00:35:29,476 --> 00:35:32,677 SYMBOLIZE THE GREATNESS AND TOUGH LEADERSHIP OF AMERICA. 521 00:35:32,678 --> 00:35:35,980 AND SO THERE'S A LOT OF -- THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF SKEPTICISM 522 00:35:35,982 --> 00:35:39,416 ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT DONALD TRUMP WANTED TO DO THIS, WHETHER 523 00:35:39,418 --> 00:35:42,954 HE WANTED TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT. BUT IT IS TRUE THAT DAYS AFTER 524 00:35:42,956 --> 00:35:46,925 ROMNEY LOST THAT ELECTION, HE WAS THE ONE WHO FILED AN 525 00:35:46,927 --> 00:35:51,196 APPLICATION TO THE PATENT OFFICE, AND HE COPYRIGHTED ONE 526 00:35:51,197 --> 00:35:53,999 PHRASE, AND THAT PHRASE WAS "MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN." 527 00:35:54,0 --> 00:36:01,239 9 AND SO YOU SEE THE THEMATICS OF HIS CAMPAIGN STARTING EARLY 528 00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:05,10 ON IN HIS PUBLIC PERSONA, BUT IT HAD BEEN SOMETHING HE HAD BEEN 529 00:36:05,11 --> 00:36:08,580 THINKING ABOUT AND TOYING AROUND WITH FOR SEVERAL DECADES. 530 00:36:08,582 --> 00:36:13,450 GREAT. THERE'S ONE PIECE OF VIDEO THAT 531 00:36:13,452 --> 00:36:31,497 YOU GOT FROM, IT WAS AN OLD RONA BARRETT CELEBRITY INTERVIEW FROM 532 00:36:31,499 --> 00:36:34,852 THE 1980S WHICH HAD NEVER AIRED, YOU GOT PARTS THAT HAD 533 00:36:34,854 --> 00:36:38,379 NEVER AIRED, AND HE WAS REMARKABLY SIMILAR IN THE WAY HE 534 00:36:38,381 --> 00:36:44,186 TALKED ABOUT POLITICAL ISSUES, BUT HE WAS ALSO VERY FRANK ABOUT 535 00:36:44,188 --> 00:36:46,918 THE SORT OF DYNAMIC ABOUT WHAT WAS MAKING HIM DECIDE TO RUN OR 536 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,976 NOT TO RUN. WAS THAT -- 537 00:36:48,978 --> 00:36:52,917 IT'S INTERESTING, AND MAYBE IT WAS BECAUSE IT WAS SO EARLY 538 00:36:52,919 --> 00:36:54,775 IN DONALD TRUMP'S POLITICAL CAREER, BUT RONA BARRETT REALLY 539 00:36:54,777 --> 00:36:58,628 GOT PROBABLY THE BEST INFORMATION OUT OF DONALD TRUMP 540 00:36:58,630 --> 00:36:58,550 THAN ANY INTERVIEW THAT I HAD SEEN, US NOTWITHSTANDING. 541 00:36:58,552 --> 00:37:04,991 [LAUGHTER] AND YOU SEE, YOU SEE HIM GOING 542 00:37:04,993 --> 00:37:01,130 THROUGH -- HE -- RONA BARRETT ASKED HIM, DO YOU WANT TO BE 543 00:37:01,132 --> 00:37:04,989 PRESIDENT? HE SAID, NO, I LOVE BUILDING, 544 00:37:04,991 --> 00:37:07,739 I'M AN AROUND THE U.S., I LOVE BUILDING -- ARTIST, I LOVE 545 00:37:07,740 --> 00:37:11,775 BUILDING MY BUILDINGS, AND OVER IT REALLY AFFECTS HIM. 546 00:37:11,777 --> 00:37:14,979 HE STARTS TO TAKE TO THIS IDEA THAT, HUH, MAYBE ONE DAY I COULD 547 00:37:14,981 --> 00:37:17,314 BE PRESIDENT. PARTICULARLY BECAUSE PEOPLE 548 00:37:17,316 --> 00:37:19,917 CONTINUOUSLY ASK HIM WHETHER OR NOT HE WANTS TO BE THE PRESIDENT 549 00:37:19,919 --> 00:37:24,656 OF THE UNITED STATES. AND HE SHOWS UP IN POLLS 550 00:37:24,657 --> 00:37:27,958 THROUGH THE DECADES AGAIN AND AGAIN NOT BECAUSE HE WAS RUNNING 551 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,62 FOR ANYTHING, BUT BECAUSE OF HIS NAME RECOGNITION, PEOPLE PUT HIM 552 00:37:32,64 --> 00:37:34,732 ON POLLS, AND HE DID VERY WELL. SO IT KIND OF BUILT. 553 00:37:34,734 --> 00:37:37,835 WELL, WE WANT TO TURN IT OVER TO ALL OF YOU TO TAKE YOUR 554 00:37:37,837 --> 00:37:41,105 QUESTIONS, SO IF YOU WANT TO RAISE YOUR HAND, WE'LL HAVE THE 555 00:37:41,107 --> 00:37:46,210 FOLKS WITH THE MICROPHONES COME BY AND START -- GO AHEAD. 556 00:37:46,212 --> 00:37:59,856 YEP. COULD YOU DISCUSS HIS 557 00:37:59,858 --> 00:38:02,218 PERSONALITY? WAS HE WARM? 558 00:38:02,220 --> 00:38:04,825 DID HE LOOK YOU IN THE IDEA? WAS HE RESERVED? 559 00:38:04,827 --> 00:38:05,153 DID YOU SEE HIM WITH MELANIA? A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HIS 560 00:38:05,155 --> 00:38:06,713 PERSONALITY. SURE. 561 00:38:06,715 --> 00:38:09,152 IN OUR INTERVIEWS AT TRUMP TOWER, THEY WERE IN HIS OFFICE 562 00:38:09,154 --> 00:38:11,72 ON THE 26TH FLOOR WITH THIS GLORIOUS VIEW OF CENTRAL PARK 563 00:38:11,74 --> 00:38:12,409 AND FIFTH EAVE, AND HE WAS -- FIFTH AVENUE, AND HE WAS VERY 564 00:38:12,411 --> 00:38:13,768 COURTEOUS AND WAS, YOU KNOW, AS I SAID BEFORE, QUITE GENEROUS 565 00:38:13,770 --> 00:38:18,542 WITH HIS TIME. WE NEVER SAW MELANIA. 566 00:38:18,544 --> 00:38:21,11 HIS KIDS WOULD WANDER IN, IVANKA AND ERIC WOULD WANDER IN FROM 567 00:38:21,13 --> 00:38:25,816 TIME TO TIME. AND TALK WITH HIM ABOUT A 568 00:38:25,818 --> 00:38:29,154 BUSINESS TRIP HE WERE GOING ON OR A PROBLEM AT THE PROPERTY IN 569 00:38:29,156 --> 00:38:32,222 MIAMI. BUT HE'S VERY SOFT SPOKEN IN 570 00:38:32,224 --> 00:38:37,62 THAT SETTING. YOU GET NONE OF THE BLUSTER THAT 571 00:38:37,63 --> 00:38:38,863 WE'RE FAMILIAR WITH FROM THE RALLIES. 572 00:38:38,864 --> 00:38:44,625 AND HE -- ON THE OTHER HAND, IT IS DIFFICULT TO HAVE A LINEAR 573 00:38:44,626 --> 00:38:50,521 CONVERSATION WITH HIM. YOU CAN ASK HIM ABOUT STUFF, AND 574 00:38:50,523 --> 00:38:55,895 HE KNOWS HIS FIELD EXTRAORDINARILY WELL. 575 00:38:55,897 --> 00:38:58,532 IF YOU ASK HIM ABOUT BUSINESS DEALS HE MADE IN 1978, HE WILL 576 00:38:58,534 --> 00:38:58,883 REMEMBER BUILDING MATERIALS AND SUBCONTRACTORS' NAMES AND THE 577 00:38:58,885 --> 00:39:02,920 WHOLE PROCESS OF MAKING, OF WORKING THROUGH A NEGOTIATION. 578 00:39:02,922 --> 00:39:09,481 BUT IF YOU ASK HIM ANYTHING THAT VEERS OFF OF WHAT HE KNOWS BEST, 579 00:39:09,483 --> 00:39:12,820 THE KNOWLEDGE BASE IS VERY THIN, AND HE TENDS TO CHANGE THE TOPIC 580 00:39:12,822 --> 00:39:17,442 VERY QUICKLY, A SENTENCE OR TWO AND HE'S OFF ON TO SOMETHING 581 00:39:17,444 --> 00:39:21,808 ELSE. HE HAS SORT OF BASE TOPICS THAT 582 00:39:21,810 --> 00:39:26,635 HE GOES BACK TO WHEN HE'S A LITTLE BIT FLUSTERED ABOUT NOT 583 00:39:26,636 --> 00:39:35,640 KNOWING SOMETHING. HE'LL ALL OF A SUDDEN TALK ABOUT 584 00:39:35,642 --> 00:39:37,478 HIS TV RATINGS. THERE'S ANOTHER THING THAT HE 585 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:38,481 WOULD DO. I SPOKE TO HIM ONLY ON THE PHONE 586 00:39:38,483 --> 00:39:44,34 SEVERAL TIMES. IF HE WAS PRESSED ON SOMETHING, 587 00:39:44,36 --> 00:39:47,240 HE WOULD ALMOST SEEM TO GET CAUGHT IN A GROOVE, AND HE WOULD 588 00:39:47,242 --> 00:39:50,253 REPEAT THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. 589 00:39:50,255 --> 00:39:52,960 AND SOMETIMES ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES, DREW, WAS ESPECIALLY 590 00:39:52,962 --> 00:39:55,597 ADEPT AT THIS, HE WOULD SORT OF SAY, MR. TRUMP, MR. TRUMP, AND 591 00:39:55,599 --> 00:39:56,926 KIND OF BRING HIM BACK -- [LAUGHTER] 592 00:39:56,928 --> 00:40:01,734 ON COURSE. AND BE THEN WE'D MOVE ON. 593 00:40:01,736 --> 00:40:04,382 BUT SORT OF JOKING ASIDE, IT WAS REALLY A PRONOUNCED THING TO BE 594 00:40:04,384 --> 00:40:04,746 TALKING WITH SOMEONE WHO SEEMED TO VEER OFF AND GET CAUGHT IN A 595 00:40:04,748 --> 00:40:06,162 GROOVE. HE'S A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT 596 00:40:06,164 --> 00:40:08,794 PERSON, I THINK, IN PERSON. HE'S VERY CHARMING, HE'S VERY 597 00:40:08,796 --> 00:40:10,721 NICE, HE KNOWS YOUR NAME, HE LOOKS AT YOU. 598 00:40:10,723 --> 00:40:13,958 I MEAN, EVERYONE SAYS THAT. IT'S NOT THIS BOMBASTIC GUY THAT 599 00:40:13,959 --> 00:40:17,362 YOU SEE ON TV, AND EVERYBODY THAT'S WORKED WITH HIM OVER THE 600 00:40:17,364 --> 00:40:20,97 YEARS SAY I WORKED WITH THIS GUY FOR 20 YEARS, TURN ON THE TV, I 601 00:40:20,99 --> 00:40:25,2 DON'T KNOW WHO THIS IS. THIS GENTLEMAN HERE. 602 00:40:25,4 --> 00:40:30,908 YEP. I'M CURIOUS OF THE ASPECTS OF 603 00:40:30,910 --> 00:40:35,678 TRUMP'S LIFE AND HIS EXPERIENCES THAT YOU RESEARCHED, WHAT OF THE 604 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:43,575 CHALLENGES OR SITUATIONS WERE MOST ANALOGOUS TO THE KINDS OF 605 00:40:43,577 --> 00:40:46,657 CHALLENGES A PRESIDENT FACES? AND WHAT CAN WE LEARN FROM 606 00:40:46,659 --> 00:40:51,229 THOSE? I MEAN, YOU'VE, YOUR BOOK HAS 607 00:40:51,230 --> 00:40:56,66 RESEARCHED AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO THE CHANCE TO READ IT 608 00:40:56,68 --> 00:40:59,404 HOW HE DEALT WITH WOMEN, HOW HE DEALT WITH CELEBRITY, YOU KNOW, 609 00:40:59,406 --> 00:41:06,444 AND BUSINESS DEALS, BUT THIS IS CLEARLY NOT A DIRECT ANALOGY TO 610 00:41:06,446 --> 00:41:16,922 WHAT A PRESIDENT WOULD FACE. RIGHT. 611 00:41:16,924 --> 00:41:23,861 AND SO WHAT CAN WE LEARN, WHAT IS MOST INSTRUCTIVE IN THIS 612 00:41:23,863 --> 00:41:23,72 IN UNDERSTANDING WHAT HE WOULD BE ACTUALLY LIKE AS A PRESIDENT? 613 00:41:23,74 --> 00:41:25,28 MICHAEL? WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S A GREAT 614 00:41:25,30 --> 00:41:26,683 QUESTION. AND THE PARALLEL IS WHAT HE DID 615 00:41:26,685 --> 00:41:27,447 RUNNING HIS BUSINESSES. AND NEARLY ALL THE BUSINESSES 616 00:41:27,449 --> 00:41:28,498 THAT HE RAN WERE PRIVATE BUSINESSES. 617 00:41:28,500 --> 00:41:40,544 SO THEY'RE DIFFICULT TO EXAMINE TIL YOU GO THROUGH ANCILLARY 618 00:41:40,546 --> 00:41:41,845 SOURCES LIKE CASINO CONTROL COMMISSION RECORDS WHICH BOB AND 619 00:41:41,847 --> 00:41:43,624 OTHER REPORTERS DID, FOR EXAMPLE. 620 00:41:43,626 --> 00:41:44,593 HE DID HAVE SIX CORPORATE BANKRUPTCIES. 621 00:41:44,595 --> 00:41:43,623 HE HAS OFTEN SAID HE HAD FOUR CORPORATE BANKRUPTCIES. 622 00:41:43,625 --> 00:41:45,495 THIS IS INSTRUCTIVE TO UNDERSTAND HOW HE SORT OF 623 00:41:45,497 --> 00:41:47,784 THINKS. AND, CLEARLY, THERE WERE SIX. 624 00:41:47,786 --> 00:41:51,21 WE ASKED HIM TO EXPLAIN WHEN YOU SAY FOUR, WHAT DO YOU MEAN? 625 00:41:51,23 --> 00:41:54,658 HE SAID, WELL, I THINK OF THE THREE CASINOS AS ONE BANKRUPTCY. 626 00:41:54,660 --> 00:41:56,593 IN FACT, THERE WERE THREE SEPARATE CORPORATIONS FOR 627 00:41:56,595 --> 00:41:59,797 PRE-PACKAGED BANKRUPTCIES AS THEY'RE CALLED, AND THERE 628 00:41:59,799 --> 00:42:03,166 CLEARLY WERE THREE SEPARATE ONES, BUT TO HIM IT'S ONE. 629 00:42:03,168 --> 00:42:05,904 PART OF IT, HE WANTS TO PUT THE BEST IMAGE OUT THERE. 630 00:42:05,906 --> 00:42:10,642 BUT THE ANSWER DIRECTLY TO YOUR QUESTION IS THAT HE WAS TOLD BY 631 00:42:10,644 --> 00:42:13,76 HIS FATHER, DON'T GO DEEPLY INTO DEBT. 632 00:42:13,78 --> 00:42:16,548 AND AS BOB MENTIONED, HE ENDS UP GOING INTO JUNK BONDS. 633 00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:19,283 HE WAS HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OR EVEN BILLIONS IN DEBT. 634 00:42:19,285 --> 00:42:23,687 TIME ANDEN AGAIN HE THOUGHT THAT HE WAS NOT GOING TO SURVIVE. 635 00:42:23,689 --> 00:42:26,437 WE TALKED TO A PERSON WHO WAS BASICALLY GIVEN THE JOB OF 636 00:42:26,439 --> 00:42:32,904 NEGOTIATING WITH BONDHOLDERS OR AND BANKS, AND AND THAT PERSON 637 00:42:32,906 --> 00:42:35,411 TOLD US HE WAS VERY CONCERNED. THIS WAS SOMEONE WHO KNEW DONALD 638 00:42:35,413 --> 00:42:47,838 TRUMP AS WELL AS ANYBODY, AND HE WAS VERY CONCERNED ABOUT DONALD 639 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:52,594 TRUMP AT THIS MOMENT. HE SAID, I'M LOOKING AT HIM, 640 00:42:52,596 --> 00:42:53,800 IT'S BANKRUPTCY AFTER BANKRUPTCY. 641 00:42:53,802 --> 00:42:56,10 HE'S IN THE MIDST OF A HUGE DIVORCE, HE'S BEING HUMILIATED 642 00:42:56,12 --> 00:42:59,201 DAY AFTER DAY ON THE FRONT PAGES OF THE NEWSPAPERS, AND I WORRY 643 00:42:59,203 --> 00:43:00,929 THAT, YOU KNOW, HE MIGHT TAKE HIS OWN LIFE. 644 00:43:00,931 --> 00:43:03,39 IT'S A VERY STRIKING STATEMENT FOR SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY FEELS 645 00:43:03,41 --> 00:43:04,304 AFFECTIONATELY ABOUT DONALD TRUMPMENT AND WHAT HE SAID WAS 646 00:43:04,306 --> 00:43:05,19 BUT WHEN I WALKED INTO THE OFFICE OF DONALD TRUMP, THERE HE 647 00:43:05,21 --> 00:43:07,792 WAS. HIS SUIT LOOKED PERFECT, HIS TIE 648 00:43:07,794 --> 00:43:08,997 WAS PERFECT AS WELL, AND HE WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S 649 00:43:08,999 --> 00:43:14,113 NEXT, WHAT DO WE DO NEXTING? AND HE HAD THIS ABILITY TO TRY 650 00:43:14,115 --> 00:43:20,445 TO BE THINKING POSITIVELY, ONE OF HIS MENTORS WAS NORMAN 651 00:43:20,447 --> 00:43:23,146 VINCENT PEALE, THE POWER OF POSITIVE THINKING. 652 00:43:23,148 --> 00:43:27,84 THAT COULD MEAN HE'S DETACHED FROM REAL ESTATE OR HE'S JUST SO 653 00:43:27,86 --> 00:43:29,821 POSITIVE-ORIENTED THAT HE DOESN'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT SOME 654 00:43:29,822 --> 00:43:32,423 OF THE DEEP PROBLEMS HE HAD. BUT THE REALITY IS WHILE HE 655 00:43:32,425 --> 00:43:36,326 CERTAINLY SAYS HE'S A GREAT BUSINESS PERSON, HIS BUSINESSES 656 00:43:36,328 --> 00:43:39,464 HAD TROUBLE TIME AND TIME AGAIN. DREW CAN TALK MORE, HE'S A 657 00:43:39,466 --> 00:43:42,500 REPORTER HERE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WORKED ON THIS. 658 00:43:42,501 --> 00:43:46,803 HE HAD A PUBLIC COMPANY AT ONE POINT, ONE TIME ONLY, BECAUSE HE 659 00:43:46,805 --> 00:43:50,41 HAD TO RAISE A LOT OF CAPITA. THAT -- CAPITAL. 660 00:43:50,42 --> 00:43:54,245 THAT COMPANY DID DO WELL AT FIRST, BUT THE STOCK PRICE WENT 661 00:43:54,247 --> 00:43:59,986 FROM SOMETHING LIKE $35 TO 17 CENTS. 662 00:43:59,988 --> 00:44:01,478 AND THE SHAREHOLDERS WERE VERY ANGRY, THIS WERE LAWSUITS FILED 663 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:05,499 THAT WE WRITE ABOUT, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT TRUMP WAS 664 00:44:05,501 --> 00:44:07,225 ABLE TO SURVIVE. ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF BEING AT THE 665 00:44:07,227 --> 00:44:10,862 ABSOLUTE DEPTHS ASK AND FINDING A WAY FOR HIMSELF TO SURVIVE. 666 00:44:10,864 --> 00:44:14,298 AND THIS IS INSTRUCTIVE. THIS IS, YOU KNOW, DONALD TRUMP 667 00:44:14,300 --> 00:44:19,537 VIEWS IT AS, YOU KNOW, HIS WORDS ARE IT'S A ONE-MAN ARMY. 668 00:44:19,539 --> 00:44:23,666 AND HE TALKED IN ONE OF HIS BOOKS ABOUT THE POWER OF 669 00:44:23,668 --> 00:44:27,135 NARCISSISM, FOR EXAMPLE. HE STARTED A BOOK BY THAT NAME, 670 00:44:27,137 --> 00:44:28,998 AND HE SAID IT'S A VERY POWERFUL THING. 671 00:44:29,0 --> 00:44:34,406 THE YOU WANT TO BE SUCCESSFUL, YOU HAVE TO THINK IN THAT TUNNEL 672 00:44:34,408 --> 00:44:38,388 VISION WAY ONLY ABOUT MAKING SURE YOU DO SURVIVE. 673 00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:40,316 AND ANOTHER ONE OF HIS POINTS IN THE BOOK THINK LIKE A 674 00:44:40,318 --> 00:44:44,507 BILLIONAIRE, HE ADVISE ARES THAT YOU HAVE A, QUOTE, SHORT 675 00:44:44,509 --> 00:44:47,622 ATTENTION SPAN, UNQUOTE. SO EITHER HE SEES THAT AS AN 676 00:44:47,624 --> 00:44:50,108 ATTRIBUTE OR HE KNOWS HE HAS THIS PARTICULAR DISPOSITION, AND 677 00:44:50,110 --> 00:44:51,590 HE TRIES TO PUT IT IN THE MOST POSITIVE WAY. 678 00:44:51,592 --> 00:44:55,541 BUT EXAMINING THAT BUSINESS CAREER AND SEEING, YOU KNOW, AS 679 00:44:55,543 --> 00:44:57,708 WE TRY TO DO IN THE BOOK, YOU KNOW, THE PEAKS AND THE VALLEYS 680 00:44:57,710 --> 00:45:01,344 AND ACTUALLY HOW HE'S OPERATED, IT SEEMS TO BE THE BEST GUIDE 681 00:45:01,346 --> 00:45:03,581 FOR HOW HE MIGHT TRY TO OPERATE -- 682 00:45:03,583 --> 00:45:06,528 ONE HUGE QUESTION COMES UP THERE IS THAT HE IS THE FIRST 683 00:45:06,530 --> 00:45:10,783 PRESIDENT WHO HAS A LOT OF FOREIGN HOLDINGS AS PEOPLE LOOK 684 00:45:10,785 --> 00:45:16,447 AT HIS FOREIGN POLICY, YOU KNOW? HE'S EXPANDING ABROAD. 685 00:45:16,449 --> 00:45:20,113 KEVIN SULLIVAN IS HERE, WENT TO AZERBAIJAN, WE HAD REPORTERS IN 686 00:45:20,115 --> 00:45:23,19 MOSCOW LOOKING AT HIS DEALINGS, THEY'RE IN PANAMA, AND WE'VE 687 00:45:23,20 --> 00:45:24,965 NEVER HAD ANYBODY WHO WOULD BE IN THE WHITE HOUSE WHO HAS A 688 00:45:24,967 --> 00:45:28,495 GLOBAL BUSINESS EMPIRE. SO YOUR GOOD QUESTION IS, HOW 689 00:45:28,497 --> 00:45:31,971 WOULD THIS WORK? IS HE GOING TO DIVEST, AND IS IT 690 00:45:31,973 --> 00:45:33,10 ENOUGH TO DIVEST HIMSELF? IS THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION WITH 691 00:45:33,11 --> 00:45:37,489 THE KIDS? I MEAN, THE VALUE GOES UP OF HIS 692 00:45:37,490 --> 00:45:41,47 HOLDINGS ALL AROUND THE WORLD. AND HE IS INCREASING HIS 693 00:45:41,49 --> 00:45:43,505 WORLDWIDE HOLDINGS. IT GOES UP IF HE'S IN THE WHITE 694 00:45:43,507 --> 00:45:48,723 HOUSE. I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE IF YOU 695 00:45:48,725 --> 00:45:54,30 THINK ABOUT WHAT DO PRESIDENTS DO, THEY SYNTHESIZE INFORMATION 696 00:45:54,32 --> 00:45:56,133 AND COME TO DECISIONS, THEY PERSUADE PEOPLE OF THEIR 697 00:45:56,135 --> 00:45:59,262 POSITIONS, AND THEY HAVE A RAM A OF SOME KIND. -- A PROGRAM OF 698 00:45:59,264 --> 00:46:01,406 SOME KIND. WELL, DONALD TRUMP IS NOT 699 00:46:01,407 --> 00:46:03,232 SOMEONE WHO TAKES IN INFORMATION VERY DEEPLY. 700 00:46:03,234 --> 00:46:16,412 WE ASKED HIM ABOUT HOW HE MAKES DECISIONS, WHAT HE READS, AND HE 701 00:46:16,414 --> 00:46:18,645 SAYS HE DOESN'T READ REPORTS OR BRIEFINGS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. 702 00:46:18,647 --> 00:46:20,264 HE DOESN'T LIKE TO READ ANYTHING OF ANY LENGTH. 703 00:46:20,266 --> 00:46:22,204 HE BELIEVES THAT HE COMES TO DECISIONS BY GUT, BY INSTINCT. 704 00:46:22,206 --> 00:46:22,924 AND SO HE VERY MUCH WANTS PEOPLE TO COME IN AND TELL HIM ABOUT 705 00:46:22,926 --> 00:46:24,427 SOMETHING ORALLY, AND HE BELIEVES THAT HE WILL GET THE 706 00:46:24,429 --> 00:46:26,656 NUB OF IT IN A MATTER OF SECONDS. 707 00:46:26,658 --> 00:46:28,863 HE'S, OBVIOUSLY OR, VERY GOOD AT PERSUADING PEOPLE THAT HE KNOWS 708 00:46:28,864 --> 00:46:33,104 A WAY FORWARD, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO PERSUADING PEOPLE 709 00:46:33,105 --> 00:46:39,801 INDIVIDUALLY IN THE WAY THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS TO TO FORM 710 00:46:39,802 --> 00:46:42,212 COALITIONS AND ACHIEVE COMPROMISES, THAT'S SOMETHING 711 00:46:42,214 --> 00:46:44,798 THAT HE'S DONE VERY LITTLE OF IN HIS CAREER. 712 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,651 HE TALKS ABOUT BEING A GREAT NEGOTIATOR, AND WE'VE CERTAINLY 713 00:46:47,653 --> 00:46:49,886 SPOKEN TO SOME OF HIS BUSINESS ASSOCIATIONS WHO CREDIT HIM FOR 714 00:46:49,888 --> 00:46:53,591 THAT, OR BUT WE'VE ALSO SOAKEN TO A LOT OF PEOPLE -- SPOKEN TO 715 00:46:53,593 --> 00:46:57,28 A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WORK WITH HIM WHO SAY THAT HE'S ALL ABOUT 716 00:46:57,30 --> 00:47:03,194 GETTING HIS WAY, AND HE'S NOT ONE TO REACH COMPROMISES. 717 00:47:03,196 --> 00:47:06,270 YES, OVER HERE. GO AHEAD. 718 00:47:06,271 --> 00:47:11,741 [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] NO, RIGHT HERE. 719 00:47:11,743 --> 00:47:19,350 I JUST WONDER, HIS STRONG ANTI-MEXICAN NARRATIVE IN THIS 720 00:47:19,352 --> 00:47:22,987 CAMPAIGN WHICH HAS PRETTY MUCH DEFINED THE CAMPAIGN, WHERE DOES 721 00:47:22,989 --> 00:47:28,625 IT COME FROM? AND DID YOU HAVE PEOPLE IN 722 00:47:28,627 --> 00:47:32,562 MEXICO RESEARCHING OR LOOKING INTO HIS DEALS THERE? 723 00:47:32,564 --> 00:47:34,632 COULD IT COME FROM HIS FRUSTRATION? 724 00:47:34,634 --> 00:47:37,268 APPARENTLY, HE DIDN'T DO VERY WELL DOWN THERE? 725 00:47:37,270 --> 00:47:42,6 WELL, I WAS THE BUREAU CHIEF IN MEXICO FOR FIVE YEARS WITH MY 726 00:47:42,8 --> 00:47:45,610 HUSBAND, KEVIN SULLIVAN, AND WE WENT TO INTERVIEW THE LAST TWO 727 00:47:45,612 --> 00:47:51,147 PRESIDENTS ABOUT THIS, VICENTE FOX AND PHILIPPE CALDERON, AND 728 00:47:51,149 --> 00:47:53,885 AS FAR AS WE CAN TELL -- AND ESPECIALLY HAVING BEEN AT 729 00:47:53,886 --> 00:47:56,787 RALLIES -- IT COMES FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE IN AMERICA LIKE WHAT 730 00:47:56,789 --> 00:47:58,989 HE HAS TO SAY, AND HE KNOWS THAT. 731 00:47:58,991 --> 00:48:01,858 HE GETS REINFORCED EVERY DAY. IT MAY BE THE MOST POPULAR THING 732 00:48:01,860 --> 00:48:05,229 HE SAYS. THERE'S NO HINT THAT HE'S 733 00:48:05,230 --> 00:48:08,865 ALWAYS, I MEAN, NOT LIKED MEXICO OR ANYTHING. 734 00:48:08,867 --> 00:48:13,970 HE, HIS GIFT IS THAT HE IS SAYING -- THIS IS WHAT WE KEEP 735 00:48:13,972 --> 00:48:17,107 HEARING AT RALLIES AND TALKING TO MILLIONS OF AMERICANS, 736 00:48:17,109 --> 00:48:21,746 THEY'RE FED UP, AND HE SAYS, AND HE'LL TELL YOU THAT IN 737 00:48:21,748 --> 00:48:23,781 INTERVIEWS TOO, IS THAT HE'S A REFLECTION OF WHAT PEOPLE WANT, 738 00:48:23,782 --> 00:48:26,250 YOU KNOW? HE THINKS THAT OUR IMMIGRATION 739 00:48:26,251 --> 00:48:31,554 POLICIES HAVE BEEN WRONG. TO AMPLIFY THAT, I THINK ONE 740 00:48:31,556 --> 00:48:35,226 THING THAT'S A SAFE BET WITH DONALD TRUMP ALTHOUGH WE CAN'T 741 00:48:35,228 --> 00:48:39,596 BE SURE OF IT, IS THAT HE'S ACTUALLY THE EMBODIMENT OF A 742 00:48:39,598 --> 00:48:42,767 POPULIST POLITICIAN, AND WE'VE HAD A HISTORY OF THOSE GOING 743 00:48:42,769 --> 00:48:47,971 BACK 200-PLUS YEARS. AND THEY EMERGE PERIODICALLY, 744 00:48:47,973 --> 00:48:49,674 AND THE PATTERNS ARE VERY SIMILAR. 745 00:48:49,676 --> 00:48:53,410 THEY SAY WHAT PEOPLE WANT TO HEAR, THEY TRY TO APPEAL TO 746 00:48:53,412 --> 00:48:59,850 PEOPLE'S ANGER AND FRUSTRATION, AND IT'S POSSIBLE THAT DONALD 747 00:48:59,852 --> 00:49:03,687 TRUMP DOESN'T HAVE ANY ANIMUS TOWARDS MEXICANS AND THAT HE'S 748 00:49:03,689 --> 00:49:06,958 ONLY PLAYING THE CARDS THAT HE SEES ARE OUT THERE FOR HIM TO 749 00:49:06,959 --> 00:49:11,94 PLAY WITH. AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, WE 750 00:49:11,96 --> 00:49:14,364 SHOULD BE TROUBLED BECAUSE WHAT WE NEED TO SOME DEGREE IN OUR 751 00:49:14,366 --> 00:49:18,269 LEADERS, I SUPPOSE, IS A GENERAL SENSE THAT THEY'RE TELLING US 752 00:49:18,270 --> 00:49:21,137 WHAT THEY REALLY FEEL AND THE TRUTH AND AT LEAST PURSUING 753 00:49:21,139 --> 00:49:23,139 POLICIES THAT ARE SORT OF GENERALLY IN THE INTERESTS OF 754 00:49:23,141 --> 00:49:27,243 THE COUNTRY. TO ADD TO WHAT BOB'S SAYING, 755 00:49:27,245 --> 00:49:30,13 I'D LIKE TO CONTRAST THIS -- WELL, HIS CURRENT POSITION ON 756 00:49:30,15 --> 00:49:32,850 MEXICANS WITH WHAT HE SAID IN THE PREVIOUS TIME WHEN HE WAS 757 00:49:32,852 --> 00:49:37,788 REALLY CLOSE TO RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT IN 1999 AND 2000. 758 00:49:37,790 --> 00:49:41,58 UP TO THAT POINT, HE WAS CONSIDERING RUNNING AS A THIRD 759 00:49:41,60 --> 00:49:44,294 PARTY CANDIDATE AGAINST PAT BUCHANAN, REMEMBER HIM? 760 00:49:44,296 --> 00:49:48,332 AND DONALD TRUMP SAID THAT THE REASON -- HE'D BE A BETTER 761 00:49:48,333 --> 00:49:51,668 REFORM PARTY CANDIDATE THAN PAT BUY CANNA BECAUSE HE WAS ALL 762 00:49:51,670 --> 00:49:55,673 ABOUT INCLUSIVENESS, AND HE DID NOT LIKE THE WAY PAT BUCHANAN 763 00:49:55,675 --> 00:49:59,110 SPOKE ABOUT NUMBERS OF PEOPLE INCLUDING JEWS, BLACKS, GAYS AND 764 00:49:59,112 --> 00:50:02,613 MEXICANS. WHAT YOU'RE SEEING NOW WHEN YOU 765 00:50:02,614 --> 00:50:05,716 GO TO THE RALLIES AND YOU EXPERIENCE THAT -- AND HE'S SAID 766 00:50:05,718 --> 00:50:09,353 IT HIMSELF -- IS THAT WHEN THE CROWD GETS LOW, HE LOVES TO 767 00:50:09,354 --> 00:50:12,590 BRING OUT THE ISSUE OF WHO'S GOING TO BUILD THE WALL, BECAUSE 768 00:50:12,592 --> 00:50:17,695 THE CROWD GOES NUTS. IT'S A WAY TO ADD SOMETHING TO 769 00:50:17,697 --> 00:50:20,697 THE POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE THAT PEOPLE CAN UNDERSTAND AND THAT 770 00:50:20,699 --> 00:50:23,0 THEY HAVE A VERY VISCERAL RESPONSE ABOUT. 771 00:50:23,1 --> 00:50:26,437 AND FOR HIM, THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT. 772 00:50:26,438 --> 00:50:30,541 IN FACT, WE SPOKE TO A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WERE TALKING TO HIM 773 00:50:30,542 --> 00:50:32,909 ABOUT THE DECISION TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT, AND WHEN HE TALKED 774 00:50:32,911 --> 00:50:36,212 ABOUT THE ISSUES THAT WERE REALLY IMPORTANT TO HIM, THE 775 00:50:36,214 --> 00:50:38,615 RELATIONSHIP WITH MEXICO DIDN'T REALLY COME UP. 776 00:50:38,617 --> 00:50:43,454 IN FACT, A NUMBER OF THEM WERE SURPRISED WHEN HE TALKED, HE 777 00:50:43,456 --> 00:50:45,956 MADE THE ALLUSIONS TO RAPISTS AND CRIMINALS CROSSING THE 778 00:50:45,958 --> 00:50:50,194 BORDER IN THE FIRST SPEECH. ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO WE 779 00:50:50,196 --> 00:50:52,896 SPOKE TO WHO WAS CLOSEST TO TRUMP GAVE US SOME GUIDANCE AND 780 00:50:52,898 --> 00:50:56,533 SAID WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HIS MOTIVES, ALWAYS 781 00:50:56,535 --> 00:51:00,538 GO FIRST TO THE IDEA THAT HE THINKS OF HIMSELF FOREMOST AS A 782 00:51:00,540 --> 00:51:04,975 SHOWMAN. AND HE WILL ALWAYS CHOOSE THE 783 00:51:04,977 --> 00:51:09,80 MOST PROVOCATIVE LINE OF ATTACK BECAUSE HE WANTS TO GET THE 784 00:51:09,82 --> 00:51:13,17 RESPONSE, THE AFFIRMATION FROM THE CROWD. 785 00:51:13,19 --> 00:51:15,752 YES, SIR, OVER HERE. YEAH. 786 00:51:15,754 --> 00:51:18,354 I WANT TO ASK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT IN A 787 00:51:18,356 --> 00:51:20,458 PRESIDENT, AND THAT'S HIS TEMPER. 788 00:51:20,459 --> 00:51:27,97 I WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT IN THE '80S AND EARLY '90S I 789 00:51:27,99 --> 00:51:29,300 WAS IN CHARGE OF PROMOTING ATLANTIC CITY, SO I HAVE A 790 00:51:29,302 --> 00:51:32,236 LITTLE BIT OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THIS. 791 00:51:32,238 --> 00:51:39,375 WHEN DONALD TRUMP SAW AN ARTICLE IN THE ATLANTIC CITY PRESS OR 792 00:51:39,377 --> 00:51:43,80 WORSE, AN EDITORIAL, HE PULLED THE NEWSPAPER OFF THE NEWSSTANDS 793 00:51:43,82 --> 00:51:47,250 IN ALL OF HIS HOTELS AND ATLANTIC CITY MAGAZINE, WHICH 794 00:51:47,252 --> 00:51:51,254 THEY ALSO OWNED. HE DIDN'T LIKE WHAT THE CASINO 795 00:51:51,256 --> 00:51:54,391 ASSOCIATION DID, HE STOPPED PAYING THE DUES WHICH WAS 25% OF 796 00:51:54,393 --> 00:51:56,326 THE BUDGET. SO I ALWAYS THINK OF HIM AT 797 00:51:56,328 --> 00:52:00,263 PETULANT. I WAS WONDERING IF YOU FOUND IN 798 00:52:00,265 --> 00:52:03,700 YOUR RESEARCH ANYTHING THAT WOULD GIVE YOU SOME GUIDANCE AS 799 00:52:03,702 --> 00:52:06,937 TO WHAT HIS TEMPER WILL BE LIKE IF HE GETS ELECTED? 800 00:52:06,938 --> 00:52:10,7 HE'S SAID, YOU KNOW, MANY TIMES I CAN BE A SCREAMER, 801 00:52:10,9 --> 00:52:12,476 QUOTE-UNQUOTE. AND I'M FAMILIAR WITH THE 802 00:52:12,478 --> 00:52:15,279 ANECDOTE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IN ATLANTIC CITY. 803 00:52:15,281 --> 00:52:19,315 AND THE PERSON I REFERENCED WHEN I STARTED TALKING THIS EVENING 804 00:52:19,317 --> 00:52:25,656 WAS JOHN O'DONNELL WHO WROTE A BOOK CALLED TRUMPED, EXCLAMATION 805 00:52:25,657 --> 00:52:29,159 POINT, AND HE REPEATEDLY CITES THESE TEMPERAMENT ISSUE. 806 00:52:29,161 --> 00:52:34,498 AND, IN FACT, DONALD TRUMP, HE GOT SO FRUSTRATED, HE ENDED UP 807 00:52:34,500 --> 00:52:38,235 QUITTING. I ASKED TRUMP ABOUT THIS, HE 808 00:52:38,237 --> 00:52:40,3 SAID, NO, I FIRED HIM. [LAUGHTER] 809 00:52:40,5 --> 00:52:42,739 BUT YOU DO HEAR THAT FROM A NUMBER OF PEOPLE, AND TRUMP 810 00:52:42,741 --> 00:52:45,643 HIMSELF HAS SAID HE IS A SCREAMER, THOSE WERE HIS OWN 811 00:52:45,645 --> 00:52:48,779 WORDS. AS TO HOW THAT WOULD REFLECT, 812 00:52:48,781 --> 00:52:50,714 YOU KNOW, BOB MENTIONED ROY COHN. 813 00:52:50,716 --> 00:52:53,816 ROY COHN WAS THE LAWYER FOR DONALD TRUMP WHEN THE U.S. 814 00:52:53,818 --> 00:52:57,922 GOVERNMENT SUED DONALD TRUMP AND HIS FATHER FRED TRUMP FOR RACE 815 00:52:57,924 --> 00:53:02,560 BIAS IN 1973. AND ROY COHN ADVISED DONALD 816 00:53:02,562 --> 00:53:06,95 TRUMP WHEN YOU'RE HIT, HIT BACK TEN TIMES HARDER OR A HUNDRED 817 00:53:06,97 --> 00:53:09,899 TIMES HARDER AND THAT, YOU KNOW, IS THE ROOT OF HIS PERSONALITY. 818 00:53:09,901 --> 00:53:12,436 THEY ACTUALLY SETTLED THAT CASE EVENTUALLY. 819 00:53:12,437 --> 00:53:17,675 BUT TIME AND TIME AGAIN WE SEE A LOT OF LAWSUITS, AND HE HAS, YOU 820 00:53:17,677 --> 00:53:20,978 KNOW, INDEED THAT PHILOSOPHY, HIT HIMSELF. 821 00:53:20,979 --> 00:53:26,16 AND THAT CASE GAVE HIM AN ANIMUS TOWARDS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. 822 00:53:26,18 --> 00:53:29,620 HE SETTLED THE CASE ONLY AFTER DRAGGING IT OUT AND 823 00:53:29,622 --> 00:53:33,389 ATTACKING VICIOUSLY THE PROSECUTORS THROUGH ROY COHN X. 824 00:53:33,391 --> 00:53:37,260 THAT'S AN ASPECT THAT HE'S MORE THAN A SCREAMER, HE IS VERY OPEN 825 00:53:37,262 --> 00:53:41,264 ABOUT WANTING TO PUNISH PEOPLE WHO -- HE OFTEN USES THE PHRASE 826 00:53:41,266 --> 00:53:44,534 VICIOUSLY ATTACK ME. AND, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF 827 00:53:44,536 --> 00:53:48,605 POLITICIANS WANT PAYBACK CAN COME NOW OR LATER, SO HE FITS 828 00:53:48,607 --> 00:53:53,243 INTO THAT MOLD. AND IT'S WORTH NOTING THAT A 829 00:53:53,245 --> 00:53:55,479 LOT OF AMERICANS FIND THIS APPEALING. 830 00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:58,982 AGAIN, I THINK THAT THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO THINK THIS 831 00:53:58,984 --> 00:54:01,584 GUY, WHEN HE'S HIT, SAYS HE'S GOING TO HIT TEN TIMES HARDER, 832 00:54:01,586 --> 00:54:04,187 AND THAT'S WHAT HE'S GOING TO DO OUT THERE. 833 00:54:04,189 --> 00:54:09,260 THEY LIKE HIS, YOU KNOW, CONFIDENCE, AND HE IS CLEARLY 834 00:54:09,261 --> 00:54:12,363 FEEDING OFF OF AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF AMERICANS WHO LIKE 835 00:54:12,364 --> 00:54:16,0 WHAT THEY SEE ON TV. AND THAT PUGNACIOUS ATTITUDE 836 00:54:16,1 --> 00:54:18,701 IS SOMETHING THAT WE TRACE IN THE BOOK ALL THE WAY BACK TO HIS 837 00:54:18,703 --> 00:54:21,337 CHILDHOOD. A NUMBER OF EXAMPLES OF STORIES 838 00:54:21,339 --> 00:54:26,443 GOING BACK TO ELEMENT RESCHOOL -- ELEMENTARY SCHOOL OF 839 00:54:26,445 --> 00:54:28,878 REALLY KIND OF RUFFIAN BEHAVIOR, AS HE CALLS IT. 840 00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:33,816 YES, SIR. YOU GUYS ARE REALLY AMAZING. 841 00:54:33,818 --> 00:54:45,29 [LAUGHTER] [INAUDIBLE] 842 00:54:45,31 --> 00:54:47,197 [LAUGHTER] THANK YOU. 843 00:54:47,198 --> 00:54:54,804 [APPLAUSE] [INAUDIBLE] 844 00:54:54,806 --> 00:54:58,941 MY QUESTION, MY QUESTION IS WHICH IS VERY SCARY TO ME, IS 845 00:54:58,943 --> 00:55:06,583 THAT AFTER 2000 THE PRESS SAID THEY FELL DOWN ON THE JOB IN NOT 846 00:55:06,584 --> 00:55:14,324 GOING AFTER BUSH'S MOTIVES FOR GOING INTO IRAQ. 847 00:55:14,326 --> 00:55:17,561 AND IT WASN'T UNTIL A DAY OR TWO AGO I HAVE SEEN THE PRESS BEGIN 848 00:55:17,562 --> 00:55:23,166 TO SAY THIS ISN'T TRUE. AND NOT MERELY REPORT ON WHAT HE 849 00:55:23,168 --> 00:55:27,3 IS SAYING, BUT SOME JUXTAPOSITION OF IT. 850 00:55:27,5 --> 00:55:33,743 HE SAID IN THIS THIS DAY AND SAD THAT THAT DAY AND ACTUALLY 851 00:55:33,745 --> 00:55:38,781 CONFRONT IT. BECAUSE I'M VERY SCARED ABOUT 852 00:55:38,783 --> 00:55:41,284 VOTERS WHO, AS YOU SAID, THEIR PASSIONS, THEY LIKE WHAT THEY 853 00:55:41,286 --> 00:55:44,187 HEAR. BUT MY CREDO IS, LET'S GET THE 854 00:55:44,189 --> 00:55:46,322 FACTS AND ARGUE ABOUT CONCLUSIONS. 855 00:55:46,324 --> 00:55:48,691 WHAT DO YOU EXPECT THE PRESS TO DO, WHAT IS THE OBLIGATION OF 856 00:55:48,693 --> 00:55:50,626 THE PRESS TO HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE? 857 00:55:50,628 --> 00:55:53,629 I'M NOT NECESSARILY TALKING ABOUT "THE WASHINGTON POST," BUT 858 00:55:53,631 --> 00:55:58,668 JUST IN GENERAL, TO HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE AND SAY YOU CAN'T, 859 00:55:58,670 --> 00:56:02,406 YOU CAN'T MAKE THESE ALLEGATIONS WHEN THE FACTS BELIE IT. 860 00:56:02,407 --> 00:56:06,743 ALL RIGHT. WE'VE ACTUALLY, I'D SAY 861 00:56:06,745 --> 00:56:09,512 EVERYWHERE WE GO WE GET A QUESTION ABOUT THIS SENSE THAT 862 00:56:09,514 --> 00:56:15,686 MANY PEOPLE HAVE THAT THERE'S BEEN LATE OR NOT AGGRESSIVE 863 00:56:15,687 --> 00:56:18,688 COVERAGE OF DONALD TRUMP. WE ALSO GET THE SAME QUESTION 864 00:56:18,690 --> 00:56:21,925 ABOUT HILLARY CLINTON. AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE 865 00:56:21,927 --> 00:56:26,62 REPORTING THAT WENT INTO THIS BOOK ALSO FED MORE THAN 30 MAJOR 866 00:56:26,64 --> 00:56:30,533 STORIES THAT APPEARED IN THE POST OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS 867 00:56:30,535 --> 00:56:34,71 THAT GO INTO GREAT DETAIL IN PUSHING BACK EXISTENCE TRUMP'S 868 00:56:34,72 --> 00:56:37,7 OWN NARRATIVE -- AGAINST TRUMP'S OWN NARRATIVE, OWN VERSION OF 869 00:56:37,9 --> 00:56:38,708 HIS LIFE AND SUCCESSES AND CAREER. 870 00:56:38,710 --> 00:56:43,12 BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE ARE OTHER ASPECTS OF THE NEWS MEDIA 871 00:56:43,14 --> 00:56:48,84 THAT HAVE NOT BEEN AS AGGRESSIVE IN DOING THE REPORTING THAT WE 872 00:56:48,86 --> 00:56:50,654 THINK IS OUR OBLIGATION IN ANY PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN, IN ANY 873 00:56:50,656 --> 00:56:53,891 CAMPAIGN. SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK 874 00:56:53,893 --> 00:56:58,628 PARTICULARLY IN TELEVISION THERE ARE QUESTIONS TO BE ASKED ABOUT, 875 00:56:58,630 --> 00:57:03,967 YOU KNOW, GIVING OVER VAST STRETCHES OF TIME TO RUNNING HIS 876 00:57:03,968 --> 00:57:07,371 RALLIES AND SO ON, YOU KNOW, GREATLY MORE TIME THAN WAS GIVEN 877 00:57:07,373 --> 00:57:10,406 TO OTHER CANDIDATES. BUT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T CONTROL 878 00:57:10,408 --> 00:57:13,110 WHAT THEY DO. WE DECIDED THAT THIS WAS OUR 879 00:57:13,112 --> 00:57:17,447 OBLIGATION TO DO THIS DEEP REPORTING AND COMMIT ENORMOUS 880 00:57:17,449 --> 00:57:20,149 RESOURCES TO THIS BOOK AND AND THE STORIES THAT HAVE APPEARED 881 00:57:20,151 --> 00:57:22,452 IN THE PAPER AND WILL CONTINUE TO APPEAR IN THE POST. 882 00:57:22,454 --> 00:57:26,489 AND THE POST HAS BEEN BANNED BY TRUMP, YOU KNOW? 883 00:57:26,491 --> 00:57:30,593 I MEAN, HE HATES WHAT WE WRITE. WE HAVE A FACT CHECKER FULL 884 00:57:30,595 --> 00:57:33,930 TIME, WE'VE HAD ALL THESE BIG STORIES. 885 00:57:33,932 --> 00:57:36,365 BUT, YOU KNOW, IT IS A KEY QUESTION. 886 00:57:36,367 --> 00:57:39,469 I THINK THE DEBATES AND STRONG MODERATING IN THE UPCOMING 887 00:57:39,471 --> 00:57:41,804 DEBATES IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN EVERYONE'S 888 00:57:41,806 --> 00:57:44,774 WATCHING. BECAUSE PEOPLE LOOK AT ONE 889 00:57:44,776 --> 00:57:47,710 STORY, AND THEN THEY CALL -- ONE STORY ABOUT HILLARY CLINTON, AND 890 00:57:47,712 --> 00:57:50,747 THEY'LL SAY WHYEN AREN'T YOU GOING -- WHY AREN'T YOU GOING 891 00:57:50,749 --> 00:57:55,986 AFTER DONALD TRUMP, AND THEN THEY'LL SEE ONE THING ABOUT 892 00:57:55,988 --> 00:57:59,388 DONALD TRUMP AND WHY THIS? THE DEBATE IS GOING TO DEPEND A 893 00:57:59,390 --> 00:58:02,392 LOT ON THE MODERATORS. AND JUST TO BE CLEAR, HE MADE 894 00:58:02,394 --> 00:58:05,329 THE IDEA THAT HASN'T BEEN TALKED ABOUT THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS. 895 00:58:05,331 --> 00:58:07,730 THIS HAS BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT FOR MONTHS BY OTHER ORGANIZATIONS, 896 00:58:07,732 --> 00:58:11,501 BY OUR ORGANIZATION. MANY TIMES THE FACT CHECKER THAT 897 00:58:11,503 --> 00:58:13,904 MARY MENTIONED, I MEAN, THEY DO EXTRAORDINARY WORK WHERE THEY 898 00:58:13,906 --> 00:58:17,207 CHECK EVERYTHING IN ALMOST REALTIME, AND THERE'S A STORY UP 899 00:58:17,208 --> 00:58:19,709 TODAY THAT, BASICALLY, THEY WENT OVER AGAIN WHAT DONALD TRUMP 900 00:58:19,711 --> 00:58:21,844 SAID. HE SAID THAT I WAS AGAINST THE 901 00:58:21,846 --> 00:58:24,947 WAR FROM THE BEGINNING BUT, IN FACT, EVERY FACT CHECK HAS SAID 902 00:58:24,949 --> 00:58:27,650 THAT'S NOT THE CASE, THAT HE SAID ON HOWARD STERN THAT -- HE 903 00:58:27,652 --> 00:58:30,386 DIDN'T SAY HE WAS AGAINST THE WAR AT THAT TIME. 904 00:58:30,388 --> 00:58:34,190 SO EVERYTHING TIME THAT STATEMENT'S MADE -- EVERY TIME 905 00:58:34,192 --> 00:58:37,427 THE STATEMENT'S MADE, THE FACT CHECKER PUTS SOMETHING OUT TO 906 00:58:37,428 --> 00:58:40,163 SAY, NO, THAT'S NOT THE CASE. ALL THE WAY IN THE BACK. 907 00:58:40,165 --> 00:58:42,966 DO YOU THINK HE MEANS WHAT HE SAYS, OR IS IT ALL JUST PART OF 908 00:58:42,968 --> 00:58:47,136 THE SHOW? IT DEPENDS WHAT HE'S SAYING. 909 00:58:47,138 --> 00:58:50,273 [LAUGHTER] I MEAN, IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE 910 00:58:50,275 --> 00:58:52,608 SOMETIMES WHEN TALKING TO HIM THAT HE ACTUALLY MEANS WHAT HE 911 00:58:52,610 --> 00:58:56,345 SAYS. I THINK IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT 912 00:58:56,347 --> 00:58:59,750 TO NOTE THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE'S AN ACCURACY QUESTION, AND 913 00:58:59,751 --> 00:59:02,451 THERE'S AN HONESTY QUESTION FOR PEOPLE. 914 00:59:02,453 --> 00:59:06,924 AND SO MANY PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT DONALD TRUMP, IT'S NOT SO MUCH 915 00:59:06,926 --> 00:59:11,562 THE FACTS, BUT IT'S THE GENUINE PASSION THAT HE ELICITS WHEN 916 00:59:11,563 --> 00:59:14,430 HE'S SPEAKING. AND BE I THINK THAT'S A VERY 917 00:59:14,432 --> 00:59:17,134 IMPORTANT DISTINCTION TO MAKE, AND IT'S AN IMPORTANT 918 00:59:17,135 --> 00:59:20,604 DISTINCTION TO ACKNOWLEDGE, THE FACT THAT HE GETS UP THERE AND 919 00:59:20,605 --> 00:59:22,805 HE SAYS SOMETHING THAT ALIGNS WITH PEOPLE. 920 00:59:22,807 --> 00:59:27,444 IT'S AN EMPOWERING FEELING. FOR THOSE WHO FEEL THAT THE 921 00:59:27,446 --> 00:59:30,547 OBAMA YEARS HAVE DISENFRANCHISED THEIR IDEAS OF HOW THE COUNTRY 922 00:59:30,549 --> 00:59:33,50 SHOULD OPERATE AND WHAT A POLITICAL LEADER SHOULD BE. 923 00:59:33,52 --> 00:59:39,388 AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS BEEN SO IMPORTANT FOR HIS 924 00:59:39,390 --> 00:59:42,325 CANDIDACY IS THAT SKILL IS ONE SKILL THAT HILLARY CLINTON HAS 925 00:59:42,327 --> 00:59:44,327 ACKNOWLEDGED THAT SHE REALLY STRUGGLES WITH. 926 00:59:44,329 --> 00:59:48,97 AND SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS GENUINE 927 00:59:48,99 --> 00:59:51,367 QUESTION, I THINK A LOT OF VOTERS ARE WONDERING WHETHER OR 928 00:59:51,369 --> 00:59:53,970 NOT THE PERSON IS, THE CANDIDATES ARE GENUINELY 929 00:59:53,972 --> 00:59:58,908 LISTENING TO THEM. AND ON THAT FRONT, DONALD TRUMP 930 00:59:58,910 --> 01:00:05,147 IS. YES. 931 01:00:05,149 --> 01:00:10,386 I AM, I AM IMRESTED WITH HOW MANY OF OUR INSTITUTIONS ARE 932 01:00:10,388 --> 01:00:16,893 BEING PRIVATIZED. AND I SEE THIS AS POTENTIALLY 933 01:00:16,895 --> 01:00:25,534 GIVING OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE ASPIRATIONS TO ENTER INTO A 934 01:00:25,536 --> 01:00:30,406 POWER STRUCTURE THE CHANCE. ARE WE, ARE WE LOOKING TO A DAY 935 01:00:30,408 --> 01:00:37,346 WHEN WE'RE GOING TO PROFIT FROM MANY OF TRUMP'S SPAWN IN OUR 936 01:00:37,348 --> 01:00:42,653 POLITICAL SYSTEM? [LAUGHTER] 937 01:00:42,655 --> 01:00:46,456 I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO START. I THINK, YOU KNOW, I'M OUT 938 01:00:46,458 --> 01:00:49,992 THERE, I'M TALKING TO VOTERS A LOT. 939 01:00:49,994 --> 01:00:54,897 AND I THINK IN SOME SENSES, YES. I MEAN, I THINK PEOPLE HAVE BEEN 940 01:00:54,899 --> 01:00:58,200 DRAWN, I MEAN, IT SEEMS SO FAR AGO BUT, YOU KNOW, SIX MONTHS 941 01:00:58,202 --> 01:01:00,970 AGO EVERYONE WAS TALKING ABOUT BERNIE SANDERS AND THE IMPACT 942 01:01:00,972 --> 01:01:03,739 THAT HE WAS HAVING ON THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THAT 943 01:01:03,741 --> 01:01:07,110 PROCESS. AND WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF 944 01:01:07,112 --> 01:01:09,145 DIFFERENT TYPES OF VOICES ENTER INTO THE STANDARD TWO-PARTY 945 01:01:09,147 --> 01:01:12,349 SYSTEM. AND THAT WILL INEVITABLY CHANGE 946 01:01:12,351 --> 01:01:15,652 WHO PEOPLE PICK AND HOW THEY PERFORM IN TERMS OF WHEN THEY'RE 947 01:01:15,654 --> 01:01:21,357 TRYING TO WIN VOTES. YES, SIR. 948 01:01:21,359 --> 01:01:26,62 HOW DID -- THE THING THAT I'VE BEEN PONDERING IS, BUILDING 949 01:01:26,64 --> 01:01:30,500 ON THIS OTHER QUESTION, A LOT OF PEOPLE SEEM TO SAY, WELL, 950 01:01:30,501 --> 01:01:33,437 HE'S -- THERE'S CHECKS AND BALANCES, HE'S NOT REALLY GOING 951 01:01:33,438 --> 01:01:35,839 TO DO WHAT HE SAYS HE'S GOING TO DO. 952 01:01:35,841 --> 01:01:40,444 WHAT REASON DO WE REALLY THINK WITH THE FORCES THAT HE'S 953 01:01:40,446 --> 01:01:47,116 UNLEASHED AND THE LEGITIMACY BY THE ATTENTION GIVEN TO SOME OF 954 01:01:47,118 --> 01:01:49,618 THE RACISM AND BIGOTRY AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT FORCES 955 01:01:49,620 --> 01:01:52,456 HAVE BEEN UNLEASHED IN OUR SOCIETY THAT THE CHECKS AND 956 01:01:52,458 --> 01:01:55,791 BALANCES WE THINK EXIST MAYBE WON'T EXIST? 957 01:01:55,793 --> 01:01:58,928 AND I GET REALLY TROUBLED, FOR INSTANCE, WHEN YOU SEE FORMER 958 01:01:58,930 --> 01:02:02,933 MEMBERS OF SENIOR OFFICERS ON BOTH SIDES GETTING INVOLVED, AND 959 01:02:02,935 --> 01:02:09,271 IT JUST -- I WONDER WHAT KIND OF, AT WHAT POINT DO WE BECOME 960 01:02:09,273 --> 01:02:13,876 CLOSE TO A BANANA REPUBLIC? YOU KNOW? 961 01:02:13,878 --> 01:02:16,580 AT WHAT POINT DO, ARE WE BEING TOO -- SAY, WELL, HE REALLY 962 01:02:16,582 --> 01:02:20,16 DOESN'T MEAN IT. DOES IT REALLY MATTER IF HE 963 01:02:20,18 --> 01:02:22,718 DOESN'T REALLY MEAN IT IF HE'S REALLY ABOUT POWER AND THE 964 01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:27,457 FORCES THAT HE'S UNLEASHED BECOME BIGGER THAN HIM AND YOU 965 01:02:27,458 --> 01:02:29,893 HAVE LIKE THE ESSAY OR OUT THERE OR -- 966 01:02:29,895 --> 01:02:31,794 I'VE HEARD THIS SO MANY TIMES. 967 01:02:31,796 --> 01:02:32,895 YOU KNOW, IT'S REALLY JUST THE PRESIDENCY. 968 01:02:32,897 --> 01:02:36,433 [LAUGHTER] I MEAN, AND THEY'RE NOT KIDDING. 969 01:02:36,435 --> 01:02:39,535 THEY SAY LOOK AT WASHINGTON. I MEAN, THERE'S CONGRESS, REALLY 970 01:02:39,537 --> 01:02:41,971 NOT MUCH GETS DONE. IT'S THE IMAGE. 971 01:02:41,973 --> 01:02:46,742 HE'S A STRONG GUY AND, NUMBER TWO, HE'S NOT THE SAME OLD 972 01:02:46,744 --> 01:02:50,80 THING. SO THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE ELECTING. 973 01:02:50,82 --> 01:02:53,783 AND FOR SOME AMAZING REASON, SO WE STARTED WRITING A STORY 974 01:02:53,785 --> 01:02:57,454 ABOUT, ACTUALLY, THE PRESIDENT HAS A LOT OF POWER. 975 01:02:57,456 --> 01:02:59,722 I MEAN, IT SEEMS SO OBVIOUS TO. [LAUGHTER] 976 01:02:59,724 --> 01:03:01,124 YOU COULD GET US INTO A LOT OF TROUBLE VERY QUICKLY. 977 01:03:01,125 --> 01:03:04,260 [LAUGHTER] AND WE SHOULD KEEP WRITING THAT, 978 01:03:04,262 --> 01:03:06,95 BECAUSE THAT SENTIMENT IS OUT THERE. 979 01:03:06,97 --> 01:03:08,697 AND EVEN MORE THAN THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'LL TALK TO PEOPLE AND 980 01:03:08,699 --> 01:03:12,736 YOU'LL SAY, WELL, YOU SUPPORT THE MUSLIM BAN. 981 01:03:12,738 --> 01:03:14,538 BUT DO -- HOW DOES THAT WORK EXACTLY? 982 01:03:14,540 --> 01:03:17,974 AND THEN YOU STARTED TALKING ABOUT MONEY AND THE WORK. 983 01:03:17,976 --> 01:03:20,777 YOU KNOW, WE DON'T REALLY THINK HE'S GOING TO DO THAT, IT'S MORE 984 01:03:20,779 --> 01:03:23,113 LIKE HE'S GOING TO BE STRONG AGAINST IT, AND HE'LL BE 985 01:03:23,114 --> 01:03:26,850 THINKING ABOUT HE WANTS TO KEEP THAT. 986 01:03:26,852 --> 01:03:30,719 THE SAME WITH THE WALL. WAIT A MINUTE, IT'S 2,000 MILES. 987 01:03:30,721 --> 01:03:34,56 HOW MUCH MONEY WOULD THAT COST? AND AGAIN -- SO HE'S GETTING THE 988 01:03:34,58 --> 01:03:37,660 BENEFIT OF IT BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT HIM TO SAY IT, THEY SHOUT 989 01:03:37,662 --> 01:03:40,596 IT AT RAFTERS, AND YET THEY'RE LIKE, OH, WE DON'T REALLY EXPECT 990 01:03:40,598 --> 01:03:43,99 HE'S GOING TO BUILD IT. IT'S THE SENTIMENT. 991 01:03:43,101 --> 01:03:48,938 IT'S THAT HE WANTS TO. IT'S THAT HE'S TELLING US I HEAR 992 01:03:48,940 --> 01:03:52,241 YOU, YOU'RE FED UP WITH ALL THE IMMIGRATION AND A LOT OF PEOPLE 993 01:03:52,243 --> 01:03:55,111 WHO THINK THAT NAFTA WAS BAD, TOOK THEIR JOBS. 994 01:03:55,113 --> 01:04:00,649 SO HE'S JUST BETTER THAN HIS TO OBJECT KIND OF CONNECTING WITH 995 01:04:00,651 --> 01:04:04,454 PEOPLE THROUGH TV. THERE'S ANOTHER ASPECT TO 996 01:04:04,456 --> 01:04:08,691 YOUR QUESTION, AND IT COMES FROM THE WORD "UNLEASHED." 997 01:04:08,693 --> 01:04:12,195 I'VE HAD THIS IN THE BACK OF MY MIND FOR A LONG TIME BEFORE THE 998 01:04:12,197 --> 01:04:15,931 ELECTION, BUT IT'S REALLY COME INTO PLAY IN THE LAST SEVERAL 999 01:04:15,933 --> 01:04:19,936 MONTHS WHICH IS I THINK WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW HAS BEEN IN 1000 01:04:19,937 --> 01:04:24,139 PLAY, HAS BEEN DEVELOPING AND UNFOLDING AND UNPACKING ITSELF 1001 01:04:24,141 --> 01:04:27,978 FOR ABOUT 15 OR 20 YEARS, MAYBE 25 YEARS. 1002 01:04:27,979 --> 01:04:33,916 AND THE SEPARATION, THE LACK OF COMITY IN CONGRESS, THE -- 1003 01:04:33,918 --> 01:04:37,954 IRONICALLY WITH THE RISE OF THE INTERNET, WE'VE SEEN A SURGE, A 1004 01:04:37,956 --> 01:04:41,56 DEEPENING OF ANTI-INTELLECTUAL BEHAVIOR. 1005 01:04:41,58 --> 01:04:43,993 AND I SORT OF FEEL LIKE IT'S COME INTO PLAY ALMOST CRESTING 1006 01:04:43,995 --> 01:04:47,697 NOW WITH THIS ELECTION. AND TO ME, THAT'S THE MORE -- 1007 01:04:47,698 --> 01:04:51,735 THOSE ARE THE UNDERCURRENTS THAT ARE MORE TROUBLING BECAUSE IT'S 1008 01:04:51,737 --> 01:04:56,472 NOT WHO GETS ELECTED PRESIDENT NECESSARILY, IT'S DEEPER TRENDS 1009 01:04:56,474 --> 01:05:00,209 IN OUR SOCIETY WHICH I SUSPECT WE'LL BE EXPLORING AFTER THE 1010 01:05:00,211 --> 01:05:03,580 ELECTION, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GO AWAY IMMEDIATELY. 1011 01:05:03,582 --> 01:05:07,750 I WOULD JUST ADD ONE CAUTIONARY NOTE BECAUSE THERE'S 1012 01:05:07,752 --> 01:05:12,422 AN ASSUMPTION OFTEN AMONG TRUMP OPPONENTS THAT THE RALLIES ARE 1013 01:05:12,424 --> 01:05:16,760 THESE GATHERINGS OF EXTREMISTS AND RACISTS AND SO ON, AND IT'S 1014 01:05:16,761 --> 01:05:19,863 JUST NOT THE CASE. THERE ARE CRAZIES AT HIS 1015 01:05:19,864 --> 01:05:23,32 RALLIES, TO BE SURE. THERE ARE EXTREMISTS. 1016 01:05:23,34 --> 01:05:28,637 BUT THERE ARE ALSO A LOT OF -- I DID A STORY A FEW WEEKS AGO 1017 01:05:28,639 --> 01:05:30,940 ABOUT OBAMA/TRUMP VOTERS, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF THEM. 1018 01:05:30,942 --> 01:05:34,945 AND THESE ARE THE HOPE AND CHANGE VOTERS, AND THESE ARE 1019 01:05:34,947 --> 01:05:38,981 PEOPLE WHO SAW IN BARACK OBAMA SOMEONE WHO HEARD EXACTLY THE 1020 01:05:38,983 --> 01:05:42,918 KINDS OF THINGS THAT ROBERT AND BOB MENTIONED AND TOOK THAT TO 1021 01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:47,323 HEART AND REFLECTED WHAT THE FRUSTRATIONS AND TROUBLES THAT 1022 01:05:47,325 --> 01:05:49,959 PEOPLE WERE GOING THROUGH. AND A LOT OF THOSE SAME PEOPLE 1023 01:05:49,961 --> 01:05:53,330 SEE THAT IN DONALD TRUMP, AND THOSE ARE NOT EXTREMISTS. 1024 01:05:53,332 --> 01:05:55,165 SO WE HAVE TIME FOR JUST ONE LAST QUESTION. 1025 01:05:55,166 --> 01:06:03,540 YES, MA'AM. [INAUDIBLE] 1026 01:06:03,541 --> 01:06:06,476 DO YOU THINK TRUMP APPRECIATES -- 1027 01:06:06,478 --> 01:06:08,912 [INAUDIBLE] THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE 1028 01:06:08,914 --> 01:06:13,550 PRESIDENCY AND THINKS ABOUT HIS OWN SKILLS VIS-A-VIS THOSE 1029 01:06:13,552 --> 01:06:16,385 REQUIREMENTS? HE KNOWS HE'S GOOD AT 1030 01:06:16,387 --> 01:06:17,520 EVERYTHING. [LAUGHER] 1031 01:06:17,521 --> 01:06:21,424 YEAH. I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT HE WAS -- 1032 01:06:21,426 --> 01:06:24,293 I MEAN, HE WOULD SAY THAT. AND PEOPLE RESPOND TO HIS 1033 01:06:24,295 --> 01:06:28,397 CONFIDENCE. HE HAS SAID THAT HE WILL GET 1034 01:06:28,399 --> 01:06:32,268 REALLY SMART PEOPLE AROUND HIM AND, I MEAN, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE 1035 01:06:32,270 --> 01:06:36,39 CONFIDENCE. AND HE IS NOT, I MEAN, HE HAS 1036 01:06:36,41 --> 01:06:37,540 NOT SAID, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS ALEPPO YET. 1037 01:06:37,541 --> 01:06:41,444 [LAUGHTER] BUT WE DID LEARN THAT HE 1038 01:06:41,446 --> 01:06:44,114 WOULD HAVE CAUGHT OSAMA BIN LADEN BEFORE 9/11 TODAY. 1039 01:06:44,115 --> 01:06:48,485 [LAUGHTER] I THINK, I THINK THE UNDERCUT 1040 01:06:48,487 --> 01:06:52,187 OF YOUR QUESTION'S A REALLY IMPORTANT THING TO EXPLORE. 1041 01:06:52,189 --> 01:06:55,524 AND THROUGHOUT THIS COUNTRY I THINK THERE'S A BIG DEBATE OVER 1042 01:06:55,526 --> 01:06:57,861 WHAT IS THE REQUIREMENT FOR A PRESIDENT, RIGHT? 1043 01:06:57,863 --> 01:07:04,801 AND FOR DONALD TRUMP, HE SAID WHAT THE REQUIREMENT WAS 30 1044 01:07:04,802 --> 01:07:08,504 YEARS AGO, AND HE REITERATED IT 20 YEARS AGO. 1045 01:07:08,506 --> 01:07:13,343 AND THAT WAS A PERSON WHO COULD REINVIGORATE THE SPIRIT OF 1046 01:07:13,344 --> 01:07:14,843 AMERICA WHO HAS BOLDNESS AND POMPOSITY. 1047 01:07:14,845 --> 01:07:18,480 THOSE ARE HIS WORDS. AND SO DOES HE FIT, THINK HE 1048 01:07:18,482 --> 01:07:20,583 FITS THE REQUIREMENT? ABSOLUTELY. 1049 01:07:20,584 --> 01:07:25,121 I THINK, I MEAN, THE QUESTION IS A SORT OF VALUES QUESTION ON 1050 01:07:25,123 --> 01:07:28,23 WHAT THE PRESIDENCY SHOULD BE. AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S 1051 01:07:28,25 --> 01:07:32,261 WHERE THINGS GET INTERESTING. I THINK IT'S REMARKABLE WITH 1052 01:07:32,263 --> 01:07:34,730 TRUMP, HE'S ALWAYS HAD THIS VERY SMALL CIRCLE OF PEOPLE HE CAN 1053 01:07:34,732 --> 01:07:37,767 REALLY RELY ON. THERE ARE USUALLY A COUPLE 1054 01:07:37,769 --> 01:07:41,237 FAMILY MEMBERS W. THE CASINO THERE WERE ONE OR TWO PEOPLE, 1055 01:07:41,239 --> 01:07:44,340 LIKE I MENTIONED, WHO DIED THIS THAT HELICOPTER CRASH. 1056 01:07:44,342 --> 01:07:47,277 AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN YOU SEE THERE'S ONE OR TWO VITAL PERSONS 1057 01:07:47,279 --> 01:07:49,545 WHO CAN REALLY TELL HIM WHAT TO DO. 1058 01:07:49,547 --> 01:07:52,147 HE DOES PREFER HAVING AN ACT LITE. 1059 01:07:52,149 --> 01:07:54,684 HE DOESN'T LIKE TO BE TOLD HE'S WRONG, SO OFTEN TIMES YOU SEE 1060 01:07:54,686 --> 01:07:57,654 PEOPLE BEING FIRED. HE'S GONE THROUGH TWO CAMPAIGN 1061 01:07:57,656 --> 01:07:59,521 MANAGERS ALREADY. SO THAT WOULD BE A BIG QUESTION 1062 01:07:59,523 --> 01:08:02,492 FOR HIM. AS PRESIDENT, HE WOULD HAVE TO 1063 01:08:02,494 --> 01:08:05,260 TACKLE MANY, MANY ISSUES THAT HE DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT. 1064 01:08:05,262 --> 01:08:07,763 AND WOULD HE RELY ON THAT ADVICE? 1065 01:08:07,765 --> 01:08:09,665 HOW WOULD HE ORGANIZE AND SYNTHESIZE THAT? 1066 01:08:09,667 --> 01:08:12,102 I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE BIG QUESTIONS. 1067 01:08:12,104 --> 01:08:16,639 HE TALKS ABOUT GETTING THINGS DONE THE BEST WAY IS AN ARMY OF 1068 01:08:16,641 --> 01:08:19,842 ONE. AND IT'S VERY HARD TO RUN THE 1069 01:08:19,844 --> 01:08:22,812 COUNTRY WITH JUST ONE PERSON: HILLARY CLINTON HAS, I MEAN, 1070 01:08:22,813 --> 01:08:25,248 IT'S POLAR OPPOSITE. SHE'S HAD ALL THIS EXPERIENCE IN 1071 01:08:25,250 --> 01:08:28,952 GOVERNMENT, AND HE IS CERTAINLY GOING TO ANSWER THIS AND SAY 1072 01:08:28,954 --> 01:08:32,388 THAT HE HAS THE TEMPERAMENT, HE'S SHOWN THROUGH HIS 1073 01:08:32,390 --> 01:08:34,857 BUSINESSES AND HE HAS THE CONFIDENCE TO GET THE RIGHT 1074 01:08:34,859 --> 01:08:37,727 PEOPLE AROUND HIM. IF HE'S RIGHT, HE'LL 1075 01:08:37,729 --> 01:08:42,30 COMPLETELY REDEFINE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE PRESIDENT GIVEN HIS 1076 01:08:42,32 --> 01:08:45,768 BIOGRAPHY, HIS TRACK RECORD, HIS LACK OF EXPERIENCE IN THE PUBLIC 1077 01:08:45,770 --> 01:08:49,671 LIFE. IF HE'S RIGHT, HE'LL BE THE 1078 01:08:49,673 --> 01:08:53,342 FIRST PERSON TO COME THIS FAR IN AN ELECTION -- HE IS FIRST 1079 01:08:53,344 --> 01:08:55,611 PERSON TO COME THIS FAR IN AN ELECTION CAMPAIGN. 1080 01:08:55,613 --> 01:08:59,449 AND IF HE'S ELECTED, HE'LL BREAK ALL THE MOLDS. 1081 01:08:59,451 --> 01:09:03,353 AND HE HAS A READY ANSWER FOR YOUR QUESTION WHICH IS WHEN 1082 01:09:03,354 --> 01:09:05,821 THINGS GO RIGHT, HE WAS FULLY PREPARED, HE KNEW WHAT TO DO, 1083 01:09:05,823 --> 01:09:10,125 AND HE TAKES ALL THE CREDIT. AND WHEN THINGS GO WRONG -- AND 1084 01:09:10,127 --> 01:09:12,829 WE SHOW THIS IN VARIOUS STAGES THROUGHOUT HIS CAREER -- WHEN 1085 01:09:12,831 --> 01:09:14,530 THINGS GO WRONG, THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED. 1086 01:09:14,532 --> 01:09:18,967 AND WE'VE HEARD THESE WORDS FROM HIM IN RECENT WEEKS X. THAT IS 1087 01:09:18,969 --> 01:09:21,904 EXACTLY THE FRAYS THAT HE USE -- PHRASE THAT HE USES THROUGHOUT 1088 01:09:21,906 --> 01:09:24,140 HIS LIFE WHEN HE'S FACED WITH TROUBLES OR FAILURE. 1089 01:09:24,142 --> 01:09:27,844 SO WHEN WE HEAR THAT NOW, YOU CAN SORT OF SEE THE GEARS MOVING 1090 01:09:27,846 --> 01:09:30,847 AND, YOU KNOW, HE'S NOT OBLIVIOUS TO HIS POSITION IN THE 1091 01:09:30,849 --> 01:09:35,785 POLLS, AND SO HE'S PREPARING HIMSELF AND ALL OF US FOR THE 1092 01:09:35,787 --> 01:09:37,986 MESSAGE THAT HE WILL HAVE IF HE LOSES. 1093 01:09:37,988 --> 01:09:40,890 SO I THINK WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE, BUT THANKS SO MUCH FOR 1094 01:09:40,892 --> 01:09:52,268 COMING OUT -- [APPLAUSE] 1095 01:09:52,270 --> 01:09:58,607 [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] PRESIDENT-ELECT DONALD TRUMP 1096 01:09:58,609 --> 01:10:02,11 WILL SOON BEGIN THE TRANSITION OF POWER BETWEEN HIS 1097 01:10:02,13 --> 01:10:04,747 ADMINISTRATION AND PRESIDENT OBAMA'S. 1098 01:10:04,749 --> 01:10:09,418 IN "BEFORE THE OATH," MARTHA KUMAR REPORTS ON THE TRANSFER OF 1099 01:10:09,420 --> 01:10:14,724 POWER BETWEEN PRESIDENTS BUSH AND OBAMA. 1100 01:10:14,726 --> 01:10:17,693 HOST: PROFESSOR KUMAR, WELCOME TO "AFTER WORDS." 1101 01:10:17,695 --> 01:10:21,530 I'M DELIGHTED TO BE HERE WITH YOU AND ANXIOUS TO HEAR MUCH 1102 01:10:21,532 --> 01:10:25,834 MORE ABOUT YOUR BOOK, "BEFORE THE OATH: TRANSITION OF GEORGE 1103 01:10:25,836 --> 01:10:28,770 W. BUSH AND BARACK OBAMA AND HOW THEY MANAGED A TRANSITION TO 1104 01:10:28,772 --> 01:10:31,840 POWER." CERTAINLY, THIS TRANSITION 1105 01:10:31,842 --> 01:10:35,979 PERIOD IS AN IMPORTANT PERIOD NOT REAL WELL KNOWN BY THE BROAD 1106 01:10:35,980 --> 01:10:39,349 PUBLIC, AND YOU PULL BACK THE CURTAIN ON THE INNER WORKINGS OF 1107 01:10:39,351 --> 01:10:42,50 THIS PARTICULAR TRANSITION AND REFER TO IT AS A MODEL AND A 1108 01:10:42,52 --> 01:10:45,821 TEMPLATE. AND I WAS STRUCK BY A NUMBER OF 1109 01:10:45,823 --> 01:10:48,725 REVELATIONS WHICH WE'LL GET INTO INCLUDING THE LEVEL OF 1110 01:10:48,727 --> 01:10:52,27 COOPERATION AND TRUST. GUEST: YEAH. 1111 01:10:52,29 --> 01:10:54,529 HOST: BUT BEFORE WE DO THAT, LET'S START WITH KIND OF A 1112 01:10:54,531 --> 01:10:56,366 HOLLYWOOD THRILLER. [LAUGHTER] 1113 01:10:56,368 --> 01:10:59,469 LET'S GO STRAIGHT TO THE INAUGURAL THAT WAS ALMOST 1114 01:10:59,471 --> 01:11:01,336 COMPLICATED OR MAYBE EVEN POSTPONED WITH THE TERRORIST 1115 01:11:01,338 --> 01:11:05,107 THREAT. SO JUST WHAT WAS THAT THREAT AND 1116 01:11:05,109 --> 01:11:07,209 HOW DID THE BUSH AND OBAMA TEAMS DEAL WITH IT? 1117 01:11:07,211 --> 01:11:10,946 GUEST: OKAY. WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR 1118 01:11:10,948 --> 01:11:15,417 BEING HERE AND FOR TALKING WITH ME ABOUT THE BOOK. 1119 01:11:15,419 --> 01:11:21,189 WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE FRONT OF THE COVER OF THE BOOK HERE AND 1120 01:11:21,191 --> 01:11:24,594 YOU SEE BUSH AND OBAMA, BOTH OF THEM ACTUALLY LOOKING PRETTY 1121 01:11:24,596 --> 01:11:26,528 SERIOUS AND GRIM -- HOST: THEY ARE. 1122 01:11:26,530 --> 01:11:30,366 GUEST: AND THEY HAD WALKED OUT OF THE BLUE ROOM WHERE THEY 1123 01:11:30,368 --> 01:11:38,774 HAD HAD THE TRADITIONAL COFFEE WHERE THE PRESIDENT-ELECT AND 1124 01:11:38,776 --> 01:11:46,214 FIRST LADY TO BE COME IN TO BE HOSTED BY THE SITTING PRESIDENT. 1125 01:11:46,216 --> 01:11:49,452 AND THE VICE PRESIDENTS ON BOTH SIDES TOO. 1126 01:11:49,454 --> 01:11:55,291 SO WHILE THEY WERE THERE DISCUSSING WHATEVER OF THE DAY'S 1127 01:11:55,292 --> 01:11:59,795 ACTIVITIES AHEAD, THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT IN THE SITUATION 1128 01:11:59,797 --> 01:12:03,231 ROOM THERE WAS A MEETING ABOUT A THREAT ON THE INAUGURATION THAT 1129 01:12:03,233 --> 01:12:08,770 HAD COME UP OVER THE WEEKEND. THERE WAS A THREAT OF A 1130 01:12:08,772 --> 01:12:13,76 TERRORIST ATTACK ON THE INAUGURATION. 1131 01:12:13,78 --> 01:12:17,713 PROBABLY NOT CLOSE TO THE PODIUM ITSELF, BUT FARTHER BACK AND THE 1132 01:12:17,715 --> 01:12:22,651 ASSUMPTION WAS THAT THERE WOULD BE POSSIBLY PEOPLE KILLED. 1133 01:12:22,653 --> 01:12:24,354 AND SO IT WAS SOMETHING OF GREAT CONCERN. 1134 01:12:24,355 --> 01:12:27,390 HOST: VERY SERIOUS. GUEST: TO THE INTELLIGENCE 1135 01:12:27,392 --> 01:12:31,793 COMMUNITY, THE SECURITY COMMUNITY. 1136 01:12:31,795 --> 01:12:36,432 AND SO WHAT THEY, AND WHAT THEY DID WAS BRING EVERYONE TOGETHER 1137 01:12:36,434 --> 01:12:42,838 WHO WAS INVOLVED IN SECURITY. SO YOU HAD THE CABINET 1138 01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:49,812 SECRETARIES OUTGOING, INCOMING LIKE HOMELAND SECURITY AND STATE 1139 01:12:49,813 --> 01:12:55,317 AND DEFENSE, AND THEN NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER AND THEN THE 1140 01:12:55,319 --> 01:13:00,490 INCOMING TERRORISM ADVISER FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA. 1141 01:13:00,492 --> 01:13:04,60 AND THEY DISCUSSED THE THREAT AND WHAT KINDS OF THINGS SHOULD 1142 01:13:04,62 --> 01:13:10,433 BE DONE. AND ONE PERSON WHO WAS IN THE 1143 01:13:10,435 --> 01:13:14,770 MEETING WHO TOLD ME ABOUT IT SAID THAT HILLARY CLINTON 1144 01:13:14,772 --> 01:13:17,672 ASKED -- HOST: FAMILIAR WITH THE 1145 01:13:17,674 --> 01:13:18,607 INAUGURAL CEREMONY -- [LAUGHTER] 1146 01:13:18,609 --> 01:13:22,412 GUEST: YEAH. AND WITH POLITICS AND WITH 1147 01:13:22,414 --> 01:13:30,620 PRESIDENTIAL IMAGE THAT SHE HAD THE BEST QUESTION WHICH WAS IS 1148 01:13:30,622 --> 01:13:32,754 THE PRESIDENT GOING TO BE PULLED OFF THE PODIUM, I DON'T THINK 1149 01:13:32,756 --> 01:13:37,626 SO. BECAUSE THE OPTICS OF THAT WOULD 1150 01:13:37,628 --> 01:13:40,395 HAVE JUST BEEN TERRIBLE TO SHOW -- 1151 01:13:40,397 --> 01:13:46,134 HOST: YEAH, COULD DISRUPT. 1152 01:13:46,136 --> 01:13:49,738 GUEST: -- WHAT A FRAGILE SYSTEM WE HAVE THAT WE COULDN'T 1153 01:13:49,740 --> 01:13:52,909 INAUGURATE A PRESIDENT. SO THE OBAMA PEOPLE TALKED TO 1154 01:13:52,911 --> 01:13:55,478 HIM. BUT THEY HAD FOUND OUT ABOUT IT 1155 01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:58,713 OVER THE WEEKEND. AND ONE OF THE -- AN ARTICLE 1156 01:13:58,715 --> 01:14:03,119 THAT I READ, DAVID AXLEROD TALKED ABOUT HAVING TALKED TO 1157 01:14:03,121 --> 01:14:11,860 OBAMA ABOUT IT ON SATURDAY. AND THAT THEY HAD DECIDED NOT TO 1158 01:14:11,862 --> 01:14:15,897 DO A FINAL RUN-THROUGH OF HIS INAUGURAL ADDRESS. 1159 01:14:15,899 --> 01:14:19,835 BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MADE THAT WORK WAS THAT BOTH SIDES 1160 01:14:19,837 --> 01:14:21,604 WERE COMFORTABLE -- HOST: YEAH. 1161 01:14:21,605 --> 01:14:26,675 KEY POINT. GUEST: THEY HAD BEEN DEALING 1162 01:14:26,677 --> 01:14:29,211 WITH ONE ANOTHER FOR MONTHS AT A A LOWER LEVEL WHERE YOU HAD 1163 01:14:29,213 --> 01:14:32,615 TRANSITION PEOPLE DEALING WITH WHITE HOUSE STAFF ON A VARIETY 1164 01:14:32,617 --> 01:14:41,256 OF ISSUES. AND THEN PRESIDENT OBAMA, 1165 01:14:41,258 --> 01:14:45,495 PRESIDENT-ELECT NAMED HIS PEOPLE EARLY ENOUGH THAT THEY COULD 1166 01:14:45,497 --> 01:14:51,500 WORK TOGETHER WITH THE PEOPLE WHO WERE SITTING IN THE OFFICES 1167 01:14:51,502 --> 01:14:54,804 BEFORE THEY LEFT. AND SO THEY COULD GET 1168 01:14:54,806 --> 01:14:59,575 INFORMATION ABOUT HOW THINGS WORKED. 1169 01:14:59,577 --> 01:15:01,877 AND THAT WAS A REALLY, I THINK, AN EXCELLENT PART OF THE 1170 01:15:01,879 --> 01:15:06,715 TRANSITION. YOU KNOW, YOU CAN GIVE PEOPLE 1171 01:15:06,717 --> 01:15:10,418 PAPER, GIVE THEM MEMORANDA, BUT SITTING DOWN AND TALKING TO THEM 1172 01:15:10,420 --> 01:15:14,624 IS A DIFFERENT THING. AND THAT HAPPENED, LIKE, IN THE 1173 01:15:14,625 --> 01:15:21,264 NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL, FOR EXAMPLE, AFTER GENERAL JONES -- 1174 01:15:21,266 --> 01:15:25,800 HOST: GENERAL JIM JONES. GUEST: WAS SELECTED AS 1175 01:15:25,802 --> 01:15:29,337 NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER, AND HE APPOINTED THE PEOPLE WHO WERE 1176 01:15:29,339 --> 01:15:31,807 THE DIRECTORATES IN THE NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL, AND THEY 1177 01:15:31,809 --> 01:15:34,609 WORKED TOGETHER WITH THE PEOPLE, SIDE BY SIDE WITH THE PEOPLE WHO 1178 01:15:34,611 --> 01:15:36,945 WERE THE OUTGOING. AND SO THEY WORKED THERE FOR 1179 01:15:36,947 --> 01:15:40,916 SEVERAL WEEKS. AND THE ADVANTAGE THAT HAS IS,