Right, first question. Oh, it's quite one for everyone. Can you recall how each of you
got the acting parts for Mission to the Unknown? Oh, good heavens above. That's 35 years ago.
And I suppose that my agent was rung up by Derek Martinez, who directed it, did he not?
That's right, he did. And so he was bold enough to ask for me, and my agent was silly enough
to send me along. But wasn't I grateful, because it's one of the most interesting episodes,
and the only one that hasn't got a Doctor Who. Yeah, that's true. Well, I don't know
why I was chosen to be a plant, because I don't have very much to do in it. You've got
green fingers. But yes, I must say, yes, they probably knew I was quite a good gardener.
I did specialise in dying rather a lot. I remember my daughter said to me, you like
being in Doctor Who, Daddy, don't you, because you get killed in the seams. She pronounced
it seams. Oh, seams, yes. It's very uncomfortable to be killed in the seams. So I was obviously
always killed in the seams. Yeah, your turn. Yeah, well, I was up in Edinburgh doing the
Edinburgh Festival, and we were doing the Scottish play, Maccas, and I was playing Mac
Duff, and I had some time off. And I'd been in Doctor Who before, and so they phoned me
and sort of said, are you free for a week, because we'd filmed our bits in one week.
And I said, well, yeah, I've got some, it was a three-week rehearsal period, I think,
so I had a middle week off. And so I whipped down to London and did the Doctor Who, and
then whipped back up to Edinburgh and continued doing the Barn. So that's how I came on. Well,
you were lucky to have two jobs at once, weren't you? No, but that was the last time I worked.
I'm so grateful for this tonight. Here we go, the next question for Edward. What was
it like playing the mysterious special agent Mark Corey and being hero of the show for
a week? Well, I never thought that I was the hero of the show for a week. I thought you
were the hero of the show for a week. Oh, stop it. You were the hero. Or Jeremy. No,
I wasn't. No, I like being, I don't think I was all that mysterious, but I suppose as
the episode drew on, it became clear that I wasn't exactly what I seemed to be at the
beginning. And then I became frightfully grumpy and cross with everybody and killed most of
you. In fact, I did. I killed you all. You shot me. I killed you all. You were trained
to kill, weren't you? Oh, yes, I was trained to kill, yes, exactly. You were a sort of
CIA undercover man. I was. I was Dick Barton, the reverse side of Dick Barton, really. Dick
Barton's special agent. So I was Snowy then. Not a pretty side. Fairly Northern. Yeah,
I put a bit of Northern in. But I was certainly the most efficient killer of the lot, apart
from the Daleks, who of course killed me, but then I did actually slip a tape recorder.
So I was very pleased with myself about that. What was it, sort of 1906, say, you know that
tape recorder from Dixon's? I didn't think Dixon's existed. It was Curry's, wasn't it?
Yeah, but I love the line in it, it said, this looks like an ordinary tape recorder,
really, if you know what I mean. And that was the thing about the wrench, you know,
they gave us to repair the spaceship, I was banging away with this hammer and chisel and
a wrench, you know. And I said, come on, we should have some sort of... At least some
kind of surgical influence. Laser gun or something. I'd forgotten that, because that big shot
of that wrench. Unbelievable. But we did have quite nifty guns, didn't we? I mean, we were
quite up to date. Oh, well that was quite up to date. Yeah, that was. It was. It was
just, I couldn't believe it, you know, these old Model T Ford repair kit. Anyway, that's
that one. Next, to you, Edward. Oh, yes, me. This is a biscuit tin, by the way. Question
of a berry. Oh, right, right. You only really appeared in several... What? You only really
appeared in several scenes of Mission to the Unknown. Do you have any memories from your
brief appearance? Yes. Oh, gosh. Well, it seemed to be endless in this, because to grow into
a plant requires a bit of fluff on a hand. Then it requires a bit more fluff. You go
back into the make-up room, a bit more fluff on the feet, and it seemed to be endlessly
going backwards and forwards, getting a different bit of fluff on. It seemed to take a long
time. Fluffing your lines a bit. Yes, that's right. I hardly had any, did I? But I... I
must, I must appeal. Yes, appeal. Watching that, which is extraordinary, because the
face was taken from another thing. But I remember, and I hope this isn't... I'm sure this is
right. I remember in a make-up room, because they put me in, because I was in and out,
I was constantly going in and having this fluff put everywhere, and costumes. And I
remember Susan Hanchard being in a chair, being made up. Not too pleased, I don't think,
that this fluffy individual was next door doing a one-line part. She was doing something
else, was she? I think so. She was a lovely lady. Yes, lovely lady. Oh, she was smashing
it. But I doubt she would have been doing Forsyth. Why we were watching that, I don't
know. Was it Forsyth? But why would I be in the same room? But there you are. Maybe you
asked for it. Yes, that's right. Yes, that's my, that's all I have to, that I can remember.
Right, Jeremy, it's your turn to do it. I'm sorry, we first met, I think, wasn't it, on
that? That's right. I was watching you, actually. Shall I read you a question for everyone?
Yes. Any recollections of the director, Derek Martinus, or of the producer, Verity Lambert?
Yes. Go on, then. Of course, Verity. Yes, because I remember when I was first approached
for the, because I did the first, very first adventure of Doctor Who, when we were, we
went back to caveman times. That was the very start of the whole thing. And I remember her
and Boris Hussain, who was the young director. And it was his first, his first telly. And
they took me out to lunch and sort of said, you know, we've got this new thing called
Doctor Who. And I thought, Doctor what? Doctor Who? Doctor No, because that was obviously
the, they said, no, no, no, this is new, it's Doctor Who. That's the James Bond thing, Doctor
No. And, you know, would you, because I like being in it, etc. And then they broke it gently,
and wanted me in the caveman outfit, all dressed in, you know, in skins and gum as well. And
also, did I know of any other actor that would, because they had fights of the death right
there between myself. I was a leader of one faction. We were trying to find fire. And
he who finds, rediscovers fire. It was like this. It was great performance. Desperate.
We'll lead the tribe, you see. And so, Derek, he went and did as a national theatre player
in the end. But we had this fight. No, Derek Newark. Derek Newark, thank you. Derek Ware.
No, Derek Newark. No, Derek Ware arranged the fight. Derek Newark, yeah. It's because
Derek and I were about the same size, and we were so literate with each other. So we
played rival leaders of the, and they filmed this fight to the death. And we tried to make
this animal. I said, look, these are animals. We have this script. And these scripts used
to be so long in those days. I said, the most erudite cavemen you've ever. So we cut a lot
of this, and sort of just, you know, use grunts. Let's be careful of frightening the children.
Oh, is that what it is? That's right, yeah. First of all, he obviously kills me. He sort
of gets this great stone and bashes my head in. Charming. Yeah, first of all. And then
Garrotts made a house, and I was thinking, oh great, and I screamed. And I cut the screams
of frightening the children. They're already behind the sofa with Doctor Who anyway. And
then we had these skins, and we were just wearing, and underneath, because we were tossing
and turning all over the place in this animal fight we were having. And so for modesty's
sake, we had these sort of little fur bikini pants on, you see. And junior points of view
used to actually ring up and sort of ask for it to be shown, just that that bit of the
fight. And they used to stop the action to see what the well-dressed cavemen are wearing,
you know. These little white front shorts with a bit of fur on them. So that was quite
fun. But I don't know what the question was. It was about Verity. Oh, Verity, of course.
Yeah, Verity. Well, that was her first. It was Verity's first show as a producer, because
she'd been working over on the other side for ITV as a production assistant to one of
the leading directors over there. And so it was all new people actually. She was great.
But you could sense she, because she's now one of the most powerful people in television,
you could sense even then as a young woman, she knew where she was going. She had a mind,
quite a strong mind. And she started, even though it was her first job, she started to
guide the thing, you know. Because I mean, nobody knew it was going to sort of turn out
the way it did. And the success was in it. But that's my first memory of Verity. Did
you work with Derek again? Derek Martin was no. No, I didn't. No, no, I don't think any
of us did, did we? That was it. Oh, God. No, I didn't. But I did work with the late, lamented
Derek Newark. Oh, yes, yes, because you see, he's not with us now, Derek. No, he's gone.
He's gone. Yes. Oh, yeah. Because he actually went on to be a leading national theatre player.
Oh, he did. But Verity produced a thing, and I had two names at that time, Jack Barry and
Barry Jackson. Jack Barry was a fighter engine, and I did the fights, which he was the producer
on Adam Adamant. Oh, I did one of those. Do you remember? Yeah, I did one of those, yeah.
And that's where we would have met again. Ah. Yeah, she was a producer on that, which
was Gerald Harper. Yeah, that's right. I did a fencing fight with her. I shall draw a veil
over that. Right, let's do another. Oh, God, I haven't drawn one. Okay. Question for everyone.
What is it like doing virtually live TV? Were there any retakes? Have you ever done live
TV? Oh, the answer is yes, and it was pretty frightening. But I mean, I don't know, somehow
or other, you squeeze the lines out of your brain and go on with it. But I mean, but Doctor
Who wasn't live, but it might just as well have been, because there was very little capability
of editing, or it was very expensive. That's right. And so you really had to do it in one.
Yes. They could go back on a block of sort of half an hour, but they hadn't learned,
because the sound was so far away from the vision at that time. I think there couldn't,
there's something about editing, they couldn't do it for quite a long time. No, so you might
just as well have been. Yeah, absolutely. And if you weren't reliable and kept on decoupling,
you wouldn't be asking. Some people like that live effect, in fact they use that in Zepcars
and softly, deliberately to try and, but I remember doing Henry V at, before White City,
before the Television Centre was made, things were shot down here in Hammersmith, in Riverside
Studios. Oh, that's right, yes. And I remember we were doing Henry V where he arrives back
at Southampton. The director was displeased in rehearsal because we were all a bit floppy.
And he said, come on, this has affected history for four or five hundred years. Grandfathers
talked about it, great-grandfathers talked about it, whole families remember this extraordinary
battle of Agincourt. For Christ's sake, somebody really think of a line, think of a line to
say when Harry comes back and he arrives in Southampton. Everyone must think of something
to shout at Harry. So we were all thinking, no, Harry, and all this sort of thing went
on, it was live, and it was Robert Hardy playing Henry V. And he came off the boat and we were
all shouting, and all this sort of thing went on with our special lines that we thought.
And then there was the inevitable little silence in a little space, and this action said,
lovely fight, Prince. Oh, yes. You know, we were all shouting, but it was just that little
time. Oh, wonderful. And the other memory of live television is we were skating battlements
in some one of the battle sequences. It was in Coonleyville, Agincourt. And we were climbing
up these ladders up to this tower, and they were throwing these boulders down, which of
course were made of polystyrene. And I was going up with a spear, like this, a bit like
the character in this. I was going up with a spear, and this huge polystyrene, about
300 pounds in weight, went on top of my spear, like a great big lollipop. So I looked so
stupid at the top of this ladder. So I whispered, rather like in that thing in the Scottish
play, the boots boys in Kick Me, Kick Me, you know, in that story. I said to the guy,
it s like I m at the top of the ladder, struggling with it. I was going, Oh! Making it look heavy.
And I said, Push it, push it. He pushed the ladder, and I went, Oh! But it was very funny.
I d love to have seen it. I d love to have seen it. Anyway, that s my memory of Coonleyville.
When we first entered, it was live telly anyway, black and white type folks. But it was, and
we were used to just appearing on stage, and they used to shoot stuff, as if it was a stage
play anyway, used to rehearse it like a stage play, and then used to go on, and they used
to, most of the time, shoot it from A to Z, just like a stage, instead of coming and going
to bits. In an act. Three acts. That s three acts, yeah. And I remember one guy died on
television, live. Oh Lord, in that, in the underground. It was a sort of post Third World
War, wasn t it? In the underground. But he, I mean, he actually died, but he actually
physically. And this is macabre, but luckily, it was for ITV. And they had, obviously, the
adverts. And so there was a break. Oh my goodness. And the director, the guy slipped out of that,
just, you know, died. And so they raced down, you know, went and took a two and a half minute
break, and sort of said, Right, I ll, okay, okay, right, shift him out of the way. I ll
do it from the floor. I ll call the shots from the floor. And actors, you say this,
you say that, you say that, you say this, and cover for him. Right, we re on studio.
And studio, three, two, one. Amazing. And the actors did it. Now it happened with Charlie
Drake, in a sequence, I happened to know there were two stuntmen. There was a huge man. The
bigger they are, it seems they got, the higher their voice. But he used to talk like that.
He used to talk, you know, he used to talk, Hello, Jack, he said. And he was a huge man.
They had this fight with Charlie Drake, which ended up with Charlie Drake going out of the
window, doing one of his dives. And Charlie Drake got knocked out on the corner of a bookshelf
during this. Oh, that s right. And he was completely knocked out. Yeah. And so these
stuntmen were slightly different now. They re now ex-Marines, and they re very sharp
SAS men. But in those days, it was like, we were a bit like that, you know. And they looked
at the count, they looked at the count, these guys were in the middle of this fight, but
suddenly there s nobody, no protagonist. But he s on the floor, knocked out. And they look
at one another, and the cameras are on them, it s all live. And the guy thinks the camera
might be cutting here, they had monitors around, you see. And he was going down, like that,
pointing down, like that, pointing for the director, whoever it was, Charlie, on the
floor. And then, presence of mind, after a few minutes of this sort of boring, he picked
him up, and he thought, well, the end of the scene was seeing him going out the window,
so I ll throw him out the window. So he picked him up like this, and because Charlie was
small, and Stan was a huge man, he picked him up like that. And as he got him right
to his ear, so he could whisper to him, he said, You re going out the window, Charlie.
You re going out the window. And threw him out the window. Of course, Charlie was hospitalised
because of that. Yeah, he tells that story. Oh dear, oh dear. But in those days, if you
did, like an armchair theatre, on a Sunday, or Sunday night theatre, as it used to be
called as well, if it was repeated on a Thursday, they didn t film it, because it was live,
you came back and just repeated it again. You did the show again. But you re used to
doing that, because we were theatre actors. The floor manager had a button, you know,
it looked like a, yeah, and it cut out, the whole station cut out. So you d all be talking,
and then it would be absolutely dead silent, you could hear, it was a palpable silence.
And the station was dead, and she d say, You re lying, and then click, and on it, and on
it again. But in the Z cars, they had Brian Blessed, and they had half a car in the studio,
and people were sort of shaking it a bit, you know, the stagehands, and he was in the
car with Jock, with Joe Brady, and there d be back projection going on, you see, and
they d drive along. And then, it was supposed to come to an end, and the scene came to an
end, and Jock s supposed to say, Well, get out, and Brian noticed that the back projection
was still going. Oh, I wouldn t get out, just get the jock out. We re still going 40 miles
from here. Oh, yeah, that s right. The thing about those boys is that nobody, I think one
of them, or one or two of the four, had a driving license. So the guy who, I can t remember
his name now, he was a smashing chap, who rented the cars to the BBC, he used to lie
down, used to lie down and do the gear change. That s it, yeah. When they were shooting down
the road, he actually used to do it all underneath their knees. I remember shooting, because
my first take was Deadline Midnight, and that was live, and then we filmed it later, but,
and Peter Vaughan, and we were supposed to be in Treadwick reporting it, and he was playing
the editor, and I was phoning in my story, and then it s supposed to come to the part
where he answers me, and I noticed, I looked across the studio, and his camera was sort
of like this, you see, the cameraman, I don t have thought, well, I ve got nothing to
shoot at the moment. So you just had to keep talking, you just kept talking and talking
and talking until somebody found the cameraman and, grrr, and started to get me. Totally
was on. And the other thing was, unless they wanted you, it was the other thing, wasn t
it, where you, you come to a scene, and they wanted you to maybe appear the next day in
something, in a different clothes and things, and so you d be having a two-hander, and the
camera would come past you, and onto that person s face as a close-up, and as soon as
the camera went past, you rushed, belt changed, like hell, across the studio, people dragging
sort of stuff off you, putting a raincoat on you, you know, and a hat, and then you
d be on the phone and stuff. And sometimes doing a scene with the wardrobe person just
doing up the, you know, the flies. That s right, yes, yes. Anyway. In Tale of Two Cities,
there was the story with the Bastille, there was a fighter ranger, it might have been you,
no, I don t think it was. No, I didn t think it was. He had a white shirt on, and he was,
he was frankly good at the sword game. I d hear he died about seven times, you know,
and then later he d be up, fighting, and then he d be up, killing somebody else, and then
he d be up, and then up he d get, and then there was lots of explosions and smoke and
stuff, and then they cut from Storming Bastille to some cosy little tea party in Sussex. And
there we all were. Because the Bastille was just next door. Oh, the smoke was, what, oh,
really, really. Oh, dear, that was live television. But then it went into semi-live, didn t it?
I remember, because I was in the street, in Coronation Street for a bit, and I remember
it was still scary. And there was very, very little time, they had time for one retake,
that s all, because you d just do two shows a week. And I always remember Graham Hotherfield,
who s gone now, but as we were counting down, and he was feeling, Right, gotta get it right,
gotta get it right, please, gotta get it right. Suddenly you hear this voice, suddenly going,
Goodbye, the real world. I d be all, Graham, yes. Isn t it time we Yeah, another question,
please. Oh, question for Barry and myself. Edward recalled watching Mission to the Unknown
with his son on his knee. Did the rest of you watch the episode sitting on No, no, can
t be sitting on Edward s knee now. Did the rest of you watch the episode when it was
originally transmitted? I didn t, so I go, That s my answer, I m afraid. That s a quick
answer. Let s have another question. Right, another question, please. Right, okay, somebody
else, please. Right, I ll do one. No, I m afraid I didn t, that s the first time I ve
seen that one. Question for Edward and Jeremy. What was it like working with the Daleks,
scary or silly? Ah, yeah, originally, like you said in your preamble to this reconstruction,
you looked and you saw the in rehearsal, they used to actually take the top off the Dalek
and they used to sort of, but there is a Father Christmas children out there, there is a Father
Christmas, but they used to sort of, and sit and sit. No, they didn t even have that. Oh,
well, I remember that. They were just squat. I remember that. So, okay. Not in our episode.
Well, anyway, and they sat and trundled around with their feet, they used to, because they
were on casters, the actual bottom half, and they used to trundle around with their feet
with their arm out while Peter Hawkins or whoever s doing the voices, you know, from
the sidelines. And I thought, wow, you know, I ve never thought the Daleks particularly
scary. And honestly, truly, when I was lying there, I don t think it s shown in here, but
I was lying there dead after you sort of zapped me, I don t know, half into a bargain plant,
suddenly the Daleks appeared, just trundling, but obviously all done up, made up when they
were shooting it. And I really felt, uh-uh, spooky, uh-uh, I can see what it is, yes,
just like that. I can t quite, I just think of the jungle floor with those casters, thinking
how difficult it would be. Yeah, oh yeah. Okay, another? Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I
said what I wanted to say. That s right, on the, yeah. Okay, question for everyone, did
you see much filming of the alien delegate scenes in the studio or rehearsals? I saw
none. No. We didn t. I think that was all complete disappearance. Yes, you see, if you
re not in a, if you re not in a particular scene, you wouldn t be called for that day.
I mean, that s, that s if it was filmed, that s how it would, obviously if it was done with,
in live television, on a block, you re all there. You re all there. Rather like a play,
you know, performances are very separated, aren t they? Or were they? Yes, yes, yes,
even in those days they started, they started, if you re talking about them, they probably
started to separate them. Yes. Rather than, or what do you call them? Possibly. Yeah.
But it was as much like a film, making a film. Yes. Well, we used to pre, they used to call
it pre-filming, then, after that, they pre-filmed everything and then shot in the studio, didn
t they? Yeah. That s right. So then they put it all together. That s right. Yeah, we filmed
the fight at Ealing. Yeah. I remember, but I knew Bob Cartland, the actor who played
Mr Big in, but I never, the first time seeing it tonight, because we ve just seen the show,
your reconstruction of it, and it s the first time I thought, my God, I didn t realise that
Bob had actually done that part. Yeah. I mean, you can be in a film nowadays and you re all
in the same film, but you never meet anybody. Okay. Oh, right, right. Weeks apart. Barry.
Question for everyone. Was it explained to you in advance that the episode was a prequel
to the epic 12-part Dalek master plan? And the answer is certainly not, as far as I was
concerned. No. Well, I knew it was a, yeah. I tend not to do that. I mean, were you told
it? No, I just told it was actually a link. Oh, you were told it. I was told this is a
link between one episode and the others, and that s why Dr Who, who was William Harden,
Bill Harden, wasn t in it, because I thought, Oh, I ll see Bill again, because, and that
obviously is the other adventurer. So you were privy to that kind of information because
you were a bit of a star when you were in it, having done the first one. I mean, what?
It s his. It s his. You haven t changed, have you, Barry? In 35 years. That s a bit of a
bitch. Question for Barry. Hello, Barry. You appeared in two other Dr Who stories. Firstly,
alongside William Hartnell in The Romans. Secondly, alongside Tom Baker in The Armageddon
and The Last Jedi. Tell us about these two actors and any recollections you may have.
I ve got a recollection. Tell us about these two actors. I do. I ve got a recollection
of William Hartnell because he sort of got, if he tried, he would go, What? What? What?
for the other actors. So, if you were on with him, you had to cover all the time. And I
remember doing a scene with him, because I d had my tongue cut out and was an assassin.
So, I just remember, because I was like, That character there. And I remember him going
to me, we were on a road scene, and I remember him going, What? What? What? to me. He dried.
And I went, And I loved doing that. Well, you ve built your world up. Much, much longer.
Much longer. I ve seen him every hour. I mean, he was, he was, sorry, go on. No, no. I was
just, I ll just flash through the question. Yeah, sure. Because the other thing was The
Armageddon factor. Yes, with Tom. And I read this script, the script came through and I
thought, and there s this description, was that Tom Baker is in this cave, I think he
s sort of in a cave, and there s a sort of scrabbling, and through a hole in this cave
appears this great shock of red hair. And I thought, Yeah, I ll do it. Because I wanted
a great big shock of red hair. A great big wig of red hair. Because if you re going like
us, you know, you tend to, you want to be like him. Not like him. You want to have really
nice hair. So, that s why I accepted the role. I mean, I have to say, it was a nice part
of the script. I was a time lord. But this thing really, I was so excited. I went to
the read through. And there was nothing said to me at all. And at the end of the read through,
we read four episodes, I think, I said to the director, I m trying to remember his name,
I can t remember his name. But I said to him, Mike, you know, what about the wig? I had
nobody in make-up talk to me. He said, Oh, you re right, love as you are. And I was stuck.
I was so disappointed. And that s my story of Drax, the Armageddon fighter. Yeah, Bill,
I mean, he was, that s the first time I met him. But he was quite an experienced actor.
Oh, he ve been in many, many films. Tons of films. And I think it s to his credit that
he took it very seriously. He was a bit irascible. Who, Bill? Bill, yeah. But he took the actual
part of Doctor Who, Bill Hartnell, very seriously, I thought, indeed. I mean, he was almost like
the guardian of the series. Yes, he was very serious about it, wasn t he? Oh, yes, especially
so. No, there wasn t like Patrick Chan, who had a sort of twinkle about him. Yeah, that
s right. No, Bill was sort of, he thought, you know, that was Andy. A lot of people think
of William Hartnell only as Doctor Who. But in fact, I mean, there are so many like William
Hartnell, who had great screen careers, film screen careers, a long career. Enormous. All
war films. All war films. Even pages. Yeah, yeah. But, and they think that Sporting Life
suddenly came only when Doctor Who came along. That s right. In fact, it was towards the
end of his career. Yeah. Bit like John Limousiere in the West. Yeah. I mean, he s the grandfather
of my agent. Anyway, so I ve got to say nice things about him. Oh, right. So I guess. No,
he was. He was nice. The question for everyone, when you come Doctor Who in the 60s, did you
expect to still be alive? Oh, no, indeed you said, still be of interest 35 years later.
Absolutely not. I mean, that s one of the great phenomena, isn t it? Isn t it? Yeah.
It s absolutely amazing. I think I m colour-blind. And generations and generations, I mean, there
s three generations who have taken an interest. But it s like anything like that. I mean,
what, Coronation Street. It started off as six episodes or something, didn t it? Florizel
Street, they were going to call it one day. But you don t really know if it s going to
really take off until suddenly, obviously the ratings start to come in and it builds
upon itself, you know. Well, the company that we did this, the Age of Kings, Violet Carson
was playing various parts in that. And Sean Conlon too, was the other one. Violet Carson
said to me, I don t, she used to play the piano for children. That s right, yes. And
for Wilfred Pickle, go on. I think I m going to stop now. But I do have an interview in
Manchester next week for a new series. A new series, it ll just be very interesting to
see. I don t know what ll happen. That s what I know. Yeah. Coronation Street. So yes, you
know, there was no idea. And I don t think the BBC did. No. Again, started off. But I
said, as I was saying earlier, I was in Birmingham on tour and a play last year and some guys
in a pub were enthralled because they ran, they had a Doctor Who club. So it s so popular.
When you go to these conventions, sci-fi conventions, well, I don t. But some actors do. And sit
there signing and make it, and they actually make it. They have them in America as well,
you know, in the States. Oh, do they? So yeah. Because I was out in the States. I was out
in San Francisco and I was working out there and I had some time off. So I decided to do
the tourist thing and I went to this like cowboy ghost town thing they set up. And I
went in and I had a look somewhere, all the memorabilia, and suddenly the guy looked at
me, and this is a few years later, you know, and he s looked at me and said, Hey, hey,
hey, Mark just standing sideways, you know, with the old profile. And he took me into
the back and there were pictures of Doctor Who and, you know, and the first episode of
course. He said, You were in the first episode of Doctor Who. And he got pictures of himself
dressed up as Doctor Who or whatever, you know. And that was in the States. And you
re talking about 20 years later. So, you know, all my hair had gone and everything. It s amazing.
Yeah. Okay. Right. Question for Edward. If you d been asked by the BBC to reprise your
role of Mark Horry, would you have done so? Oh, absolutely, yes. The best thing that any
actor can do is to be asked and do a part that he s already played. Because you can
always do it better. I mean, the first time round is, well, hopefully, alright. But you
could have done it better. Yes, of course you could. Well, you shot me. But you always
learn from that experience to go back to it. And I have been able to reprise one or two
roles over a long period. And it s always wonderful to go back to a role because you
just, you can t in time scale preparing the episode, for instance, of Mission Impossible
or what was it called? Yeah, Mission to the Unknown. Mission to the Unknown. In that time
scale, you can only do what you can do. But afterwards, long after the thing, all that
brief but very concentrated piece of experience and rehearsal and work just sort of filters
down into you. And so when you come back to it, not that I was ever asked to, but if I
were to be asked to do it a couple of years later, all that would have been a basis upon
which to do it. And certainly when I played Demetrius at Stratford with Charles Laubner
and Albert Finney, and then I did it again on a recording. And it was like a holiday
because you knew so much more about it. The basic work had been done. You had your four
weeks rehearsal and you had the experience of playing it. But next time round, provided
that you're still young enough to play it, all that is still there, plus what you still
know, or what you rather have learnt since as an actor generally, not thinking about
that part. So it's always better to go and have another go. Provided that you're young
enough. I'd have to be asked to do it now. Yes, the John Gilbert played Hamlet many years
ago. Yes, yes he did. But I don't think he ever was too old to play Hamlet because he
stopped doing it early enough. But apparently his Richard of Bordeaux was something which
he reprised in South Africa and he was terribly, terribly disappointed in it because he was
simply too old for it. But there's that story of John Gilbert actually. I worked with him,
a lovely guy, a lovely man. He was playing Hamlet, that's right. He was sort of talking
to Harry Andrews and saying, oh, it's lovely, you'll make a lovely Horatio. He said, but
the man who played it before, oh God, he was not very good. Harry Andrews said, well, it's
a John. I played it. Oh, but John, you've improved so much, he said. He's improved so
much. He's so indiscreet. He used to say, I'm so indiscreet. And he knew he was indiscreet.
I played, I was in Heartbreak House and he was in it. Well, he was it, he was in Heartbreak
House. And he said, the only thing he ever said to me was, I love what you're doing but
speak up. It was a wonderful brick he dropped when he was in a film, isn't it? And there
was a social occasion and some young lady sat next to him and said, oh, oh, I thought
you were that terrible actress, Mercedes McCambridge. And she said, well, I am Mercedes McCambridge.
He says, no, no, no, not that Mercedes. Another Mercedes McCambridge. Yeah, no, he's lovely.
He was a great wonder. He was wonderful.
Yeah, a question for everyone. Did any of you retain any keepsakes from Doctor Who or
any other acting work you have been involved with?
I'm not a memorabilia person at all. I don't think I have anything. I certainly haven't
got anything from that or indeed anything else. The only things that I keep are good
clothes and I didn't have any particularly good clothes, I seem to remember.
They don't do it now, do they?
No, they don't. I mean, no, you can buy them for sometimes a quarter or a third the price.
I have got a pair of shoes and a suit, but not from that.
I kept my, because I, I've only got one photograph from Doctor Who, as I came in, in my, in
my, in my skin. But from, I used to play in the Musketeers, we did three Musketeers on
the box years ago. Brian Blessed was Portos and Jeremy Brett was Battalion and I played
Atos. Gary Watson played Animes. And I kept my hat, I've still got the two Musketeer hats
with all the, and a couple of swords.
When do you model them?
They're stuck up there.
Good.
And yeah, I kept one or two things like when I played Maccas, the orb, you know. It was
actually, it's sad now, because it was actually a ball with a bit of polystyrene around it
and painted gold and everything. Of course the ball has sort of actually deflated, rather
sadly, the orb now.
A few scripts. Funny enough, no Doctor Who scripts, except the one we've got now, which
is very nice. One or two scripts from the time. That's all I can think of. But nothing
from Doctor Who, I'm afraid. Because in a way, it was just another job, you see. You
thought, well, okay, good, got four weeks work or five weeks, whatever the, however
long it took to shoot the first film.
Yes, have we known, I mean, there are many things, have we known about those cigarette
cards or when we were children, whatever.
Yes, I worked on Hard Day's Night, the first Beatles film. And if I'd have known, because
I went to school with two of the Beatles, and so we were chatting, I was on it quite
a bit, and we were chatting about the old school days. If I'd have known, I'd have
taken my tape recorder.
What?
Yeah. Because I was there when they were plonking out, because they used to, between takes,
they used to sort of plonk out a few.
Francis?
No, they used to sort of start composing.
They're composing, they're really.
I think, I'm not sure, but it was one of them, maybe this is apocryphal, maybe it wasn't
this one, but I'm sure it was. I wanna hold your hand. What do you think about this then?
I wanna, yeah, that'll work, won't it, like, you know. And so they said, yeah, I thought,
God, now, you know. With a few quips.
That's a nice one.
Yeah.
I'm reading these.
All right, question for everyone. What inspired each of you to become actors, and did you
have a little, a role model or a childhood hero?
Yeah. Sir Lawrence Olivier.
Was that, yeah.
Yeah.
So I went to see those films, Hamlet and Henry V, and I thought, oh. But really, I mean,
in Nativity Play. And I could read before I went to school, and so if you're good at
something and you get praise for it as a kid, then of course you do. And we went to school,
what, about four, four and a half in those days. No, it was three and a half when I could
read. And so obviously, the teacher, if there was any reading to be done, you know, in syllabus,
they'd think, oh, this is the easy bit, just give it to him, you know. And I used to, and
from that, and I used to, I'm frightened of water. I used to hate swimming, and I, they
used to go swimming. And I got out of it as many times as I could, sick notes and God
forbid. And, because I found out that those that stayed behind actually did little playwrights.
And because I could read, I got sort of, I played the greening, you know. Coming to tease
the toys at night. And so that was really, and I thought, I like this. And anyway, that's
why I really started. So it was either going to be a professional football. In Liverpool,
yeah. In Liverpool, yeah. My first part was as a wise man in the Nativity Play. I had
these pointed hats, I must have been about four, five, maybe four or five, these pointed
hats. A cloak, of course I didn't know how to take a cloak off, you know. Here's my cloak
to keep you warm, right up the top of that. I brought the house down. I can't remember
that. A bit of red face. Your mum's told you that. Yes, probably. But that's, I remember,
that's the earliest memory I've got of it. What about your earliest memory? I haven't
got an earliest memory, but I couldn't have done anything else. Why do you say that? Well,
not that I was a very good actor, I was very bad at everything else. But my mother did
say, she said, you know, she had bells pulsing towards the end of How I Wished You Were Dead
all day. She said, you know, one of the reasons why you're an actor, I suppose, she said,
when I was a little girl, we used to do, we used to have to perform, and when I was, when
she was a little girl, we're talking about 1898, and all the lads used to chayak, you
know, they used to, she was born in Howe, they used to rib us, you know, and I had to
stand up and I had to do this poem, and the poem went, There was a bee sat on the wall
and it went buzz, and that was all. And you? Well, I remember, I wrote an essay when I
was nine, it exists somewhere, why I want to be an actor. So I obviously, I came from
a family of actors, and I was a little bit of a drama teacher in the home, really, and
I spoke a lot of that. So my parents wanted me to be a bit more middle class, so I was
sent to a drama teacher and that s really, and I think it s for her inspiration that
I did that. And then I became a, I did some radio in 51 as a, you know, children s zone
and stuff like that, and that s how it all started really. For me. Right. Question for
you. What was your first film or TV appearance? Edward. There s a wonderful story. Now, who
s that very camp person who used to be in all the Carry On films? Kenneth Rhodes? No,
no, no. Oh, yes. But it doesn t really matter because he was quite a senior gentleman, and
he was being interviewed. Haltry. Charles Haltry. Charles, well, remember, Charles Haltry
was being interviewed, and he was being very charming to the interviewer, and in the end
the interviewer said, No, Mr. Haltry, would you tell me when you did your first movie?
He said, Oh, now that s a very outrageous question, and that s very personal. I m not
going to tell you that, but I can tell you that my first talkie was in 1932. Oh, wow.
Yes. What was the question? You were saying, What was your first film or TV appearance?
Oh, yes, well, I can remember that. That was, that was the Romans. 1898. No, no, it was
your mum. The Romans bring a Mrs. Stone, and my son had just been born, and I had one day
on this film, Vivien Leigh, with Vivien Leigh and Robert Beatty, and I had to have a monkey,
and I had to cuddle and befriend this monkey. It was a Humboldt s wooly monkey from a pet
shop. It wasn t trained or anything. Oh, my. And so it was a bit peed all over, and it
was nipped by a maraschino cherry, and it was a lady monkey. And I was the gigolo of
Mabors Villas, and this monkey was absolutely, it was so possessive and so jealous and bit
everybody inside. And all the ladies. Who came near the. Oh, yes, everybody was rushing
off to the nurse, and having derris dust or whatever it was on their still bites. But
this monkey thought the world of me. My first TV was Deadline Midnight, where we had a
series about newspaper. I ve spoken about this before. The series about newspaper people,
which ITV started, ATV, out at Highbury Barn with the ATV studios. In fact, I opened ATV
studios, because we moved from Highbury Barn to the new ATV studios out at Elstree. And
about twenty odd years later, I closed ATV studios with another desperate, awful series.
But Deadline Midnight. Funny enough, I went round on the Mirror, I went round the Mirror
with a young Desmond Wilcox, because he was a reporter on the Mirror at that time, and
to get some experience, work experience before Stanislavski stuff, you know. I went round
with him on some stories. He was quite a tough cookie. I mean, I based, he was like a foot
in the door, tough reporter actually. And I based the character on Desmond Wilcox. And
then of course he went into television and was married to Esther Haxel. But that was
my first TV. The Insect play, and I played an ant. Patrick Troughton played another ant.
Richard Wordsworth played another ant. Anna Cropper played the mayfly. It was full of
extraordinary, it was an amazing play. We did that at Riverside. She managed to build
a road. She was. It was about 110 degrees inside the studio. Oh, I remember it. It was
so hot, it was extraordinary. We were in, in those days they didn t have, when you were
in costume, we were in ant costumes. You know what it s like, and it s felt in those days.
It s not, you don t have a built in fan like you would now. And we were all dying, really
nearly dying, passing out. That s what I remember. Anyway, that was my first, my first. Filming,
I can t remember. Big grown up films, big films. Commonly, Rotten to the Corpse, John
Belding. You must have done those, the B films and stuff like that. No, I didn t do any of
those. No, I never cast Ronnie Curtis. He used to come in casting me. I d just sort
of, er, squint and he d say, You, and you, and you, and the rest of you can go, bugger
off. Er, yeah, because Mike Kane used to be around at that time as well. Sort of looking
for work, you know. But, er, yeah, I used to do some of those movies. Er, but, I don
t know, it s mostly television really. I, I actually, I m, my living, I m theatre of
course, you know. You talk, yes, you, you ve got to be talking. When was the, when was
2001 made? It s only been. Oh, that s, that s, that s some time ago. I went with Pitchcock.
I went up for that. I went up for one of the monkeys in that. Oh, did you? And it was because
I would, my mum had said to me, Why don t you buy a cine camera? I said, I d love one.
Anyway, I had another agent, er, I had an agent for a cabaret actor in those days, for
this Jack Barry character. He used to tumble, I used to teach tumbling and stuff. And, er,
they said, there s a day s shooting down by Cliffordship Pitcher down at, at, not at Pinewood,
it would have been at MGM Studios. So I went down to be hanging from a, a roof and dropping
into a tub of, whatever it was. The boys were going by on their bikes in Greece or wherever
they were and knocked this chap who s, knocked his ladder and I fell into this thing, Robert
Moore, he was there, I remember. But, er, this booker who was a circus agent said, While
you re there, go and see, I want you to come and see the, er, 2001 set which I m doing
all the harnesses for. And I saw the, that extraordinary scene where the man is walking
around the spaceship and it s mark, like mile, a mile, a long walk, isn t it? Yeah, there
we are. Coast, coaster. Kubrick was the first to have monitors, to use monitors, er, and
he was in a box somewhere else. I won t see you. And through this gap, there were these
drums, they were about two, I think about two hundred feet across. They might have been
more, but in the big bonds, one of the big stages, not, it wouldn t be the bonds, this
is Pinewood, but there were huge, two huge drums and they would, they were, there was
a gap like that, a very thin gap and an extraordinary piece of steel through it, titanium, you know,
something really strong, er, on the, and the camera was on the other side of that, so the
two drums were moving. And the guy was able to walk towards the camera and the drum moved
and then this guy, this circus agent who d harnessed all these people, were working and
harnessed and going upside down. Amazing scene. But then we went up, I went up for this, er,
one of these monkeys and Kubrick went along the road and, em, and then we were recalled.
Er, and then they, they came through, this agent, said, er, do you want to do this? And
I said, I, no, I don t think I do. Cause, er, and anyway, I m really glad I didn t,
although it would have been really nice in retrospect to maybe have played it, but apparently
that, or two, was in costumes, in monkey costumes in Wales and in, in a, in a heat wave. So
they had people passing out and Kubrick was a, you know, I don t know whether you d ever
know. I wasn t there, no. Well, he, he wasn t so much a martian, he just would say, you
know, if he was very quiet he would say, sack that guy, he was a proper, you know, he was
just a, he was an amazing director. Cause I worked on another, another, another airplane.
Yes, he d say, Kubrick actually said this on, er, one of the films. Er, it was Lin,
it was Dale, like a Barry Lyndon, and he says it in the first assistant, and we were filming
in Glastonbury, and it was very near Yelverton where Chris Charles learnt to fly a helicopter
and all that. It was a very important, er, er, airplane, er, what is it, not marines,
what do they call it? The, er, the navy flying. Royal Marines? Royal, well, something else.
No, it was the Fleet Air Arm. Fleet Air Arm, whatever it is, anyway, they trained there.
And, er, planes going constantly, and Kubrick said, er, well, what s that plane? And the
first assistant said, well, you know, we re near, you know, he said, Kubrick. And, er,
he, the guy, the first assistant had to go and ask them to fly in some other area, that
s how powerful he was. Sorry, we ve digressed. No, no, yeah. Let s have another. Yeah, that
was, that was fine. Another question, another question. Yeah, okay. Erm, question for everyone.
Apart from Mission to the Unknown, which piece of your own acting work are you most proud
of? I m not particularly proud of Mission Unknown. Oops, shouldn t say that. Erm, I was
rather stiff in Mission Unknown. I don t know. Find something else, do you? Erm, yeah. Find
something for you. This is for everyone though. I know, you find yours. Oh, I see another,
oh, I see, sorry. Something you re really proud of. Oh, I know, Maccas, I suppose. Er, you
know, Scottish Gentleman, erm, and, erm, where did you do that? Sergeant Musgrave. Erm, up
in, erm, that was Dundee, I did that. I played Macduff in the festival and then I, six weeks
later, they came along and said, We saw you playing Macduff, thinking you d make a good
man, er, Macbeth. We d like to die. That s right, yes, yes, yes. So we, er, yeah, I did
and Musgrave, I enjoyed playing Musgrave. And a lot of comedies and, I don t know, lots
of stuff. Weekly Rep was great. I used to enjoy it. I enjoyed it. Get away. Yeah, get
away. Well, looking back in retrospect probably, but, had some good times. Playing a week,
hairy times. I used to love doing the comedies. Erm, cos I ve fairly seldom get to play comedy
I m, er, looking where I did. Who was that? Well, I, Cross, wait. Villain, yeah, villain
for that. Erm, could, could some good parts. I mean, you know, I used to sort of do the
Avengers, er, villain for that week in the Avengers, so whatever. Erm, but, erm, very
seldom. I played a comedy with, er, Roy Kinnear, which was quite funny. Oh, yeah. What a lovely
man. Oh, God, he was, he s impossible. Oh, he s funny. He s wonderful. He s that twinkle.
Cos, yeah, you, you sort of work with him and, and you d be, you know, trying to, so,
and, er, suddenly he d start to twitch in the corner of his mouth and you, next minute
the tears would be pouring down your face. We had to stop rehearsal and I said, I can
t, I said, I m so sorry, like, you know. Said, the director said, no, it s all right, that
s great, this looking girl, you know, we ll, we ll practice for the day, we ll come back
tomorrow. Cos they re on the variety side, you know. You know how we re all reaching
for our glasses to read these sort of things? Er, well, I remember, er, Mark and Roy Kinnear
was in this, driving the car and, er, and, er, I remember reaching for the glass and
he just went and produced this weird magnifying glass which he d obviously, he just went,
you know, with the magnifying glass in that lovely way. Question for everyone, what have
each of you, well, what was that last question? Well, it s something about, er. I think it
was, we didn t have your favourite thing, or. Oh, sorry, pardon, actually, yeah. Apart
from Mission to the Unknown, which piece of your own acting work are you most proud of?
Er, well, I did a thing called Horace for, er, sort of sub-normal Yorkshire character
in a series. That s right. Well, it was a BBC Two play first and then I did a series.
I love, love doing that. Yeah. Erm, and, you know, er, strangely when you look back, there
s, there s only, for me anyway, there s only a ha, ha, it s when I see something or when
I s, I m hardly ever surprised. You know, you know, you re the trickster. Yeah. And
when you are surprised, it s a lovely thing to see. Something, when you surprise, even
when you ve done a take and it surprised you, it s a, it s a, it s a good moment. Mm-hm.
And that s what we, erm, that sort of spontaneous, it s just a surprise and that s when you,
normally, er, you just, when you re watching television, er, yeah, I ve seen it before,
on tricks, yeah, I know that, mm, yeah, then occasionally you see something and for me
it s about five, not many more than about, out of two hundred or so, but it s about five
things that, that have surprised me. Erm, but generally we re not, we re like, like
anybody, we re just trying to be better, like you said. Yeah. We re always trying to be
better. Even when you re in a play, every night in a play, it s extraordinary how it
wanders off the mark sometimes. Or you can go for almost six months and still be pursuing
that, that perfect performance, can t you? Yeah. And that s what I find, it s fascinating
and it s hard because you can never quite, you can never achieve it, but never quite
get it. No, it s like, the great golfer will say, well, that was a sixty-three, but I could
have, it could have been a sixty-two or a sixty-five. Yeah. Yeah. And there is, and,
and, and, even less and even less and even less, and there is no perfect, perfect thing.
As you say, that was a hundred, a hundred and one and I might get it down to ninety-eight.
Yes, well, yes, for sure. But it s very difficult in, in television and filming because there
are, there are forty people out there who are all dealing with their own part of the
game and there s you here and, and till you all gel together and it takes a while for
the camera to, to get it right, the sound to get it right and everybody else to get
it right, by then you may well have died in your performance, you know, after, and it
s very difficult for them all to come up together. Yeah. And it s very, it s a very interesting
industry, you know, the film and television industry. I can t take any pride in any of
the, any of the stuff that I do on the screen. I m quite proud of some of the stuff I ve
done on the radio because I m very self-conscious on the screen and in front of the camera.
On the radio, the microphone, I, I have no self-consciousness at all and in the theatre
I have very little self-consciousness. So I can t really say because I ve never seen
it or heard. Well, some of the stuff I have heard and some of the stuff I ve been quite,
quite happy with but the best work I ve done, the most work I ve done is on stage and I
only have feedback from that. Yeah, that s right, there s no filming. Somehow, I think,
thank God, you know, I was talking about those two parts. I d probably hate to see them actually.
I know. On screen now, you think, oh no. When I did a film for a punk, er, which was the
Skullcrest, which Warners took over, you know, with Mr Lull, and I mean it was a part of
a lifetime in a way because Ian Holm was going to do it originally. And I, I mean I, I was
committed to doing it, er, but I sort of didn t like the script really. And I was struggling
because the character wasn t at all, erm, animated, you know, and I found it, it was
a wonderful part of play and people liked it but I, I hated watching it. Mm. I just
hated the character, the character was so boring. For me. Yeah. And so it s, it s very
difficult to actually You re a very bad judge of your own work. One is a very bad judge
of one s own work, too, I think. Yeah. Mm. Because you see so much of yourself and you
don t see, er, yourself as others see you. Mm. Go on. Go on. Alright, I, I seem to be
beating them out. Er, question for everyone. Tell us about any hobbies or interests that
you have for publication. That one can talk about. Barry Jackson, er, er, is a tumbler.
No, no, was a tumbler. Was a tumbler. He s an old man now. Transvestite. Transvestite.
Have you stopped that now? No. I did play a transvestite. I did. I played a sort of
transvestite. I ve, er, when this thing Horace came out, er, I knew that I would be uncastable
because this character was like, he was going, Just got a joke. I ve got a joke for you.
And he was just like that sort of character. So I thought, there s no way, because in this
business, if they see you playing something and they like it, so if they cast you in other
things that are similar, and I remember the only thing that I got off from the BBC Two
Horace, which is the character that I created in Seventy, I was offered to do, er, sub,
there aren t many sub-normals around, I was offered to do an insane character in an asylum.
I was asked to do another deaf mute in something else. It s was, it s extraordinary how they
relate to you. And so I knew when I had, I knew, I knew that when I d done that, when
I d done Horace, that I had to be a trans, that I had, I took this job as a transvestite.
What s that say? It s just a, it s just a little asterisk. I say yes, and the, the,
the question is twisted round to when I was playing this. I m sorry. It s my fault that
you re a transvestite. What do we do as a hobby? Tell us about any hobbies or interests
that you ve had. Well, I, I, yeah, I like timber, wood. Yeah, do that s right. And I
ve got two allotments. I grow my own vegetables. I ve done for years. So that s me really gardening
and carpentry. I used to play footy for years and years and years, the Sunday football team.
Thought I was George Best or something, but I was Dreadball. Er, I used to run our Sunday
football team. Er, and that was, when you re on the pitch, you really thought it was
Wembley, the way it was going. Er, and then it went to squash, er, which I enjoyed until
I got a ball in the eye. Er, and then finally golf, which is, er, I, yeah, yeah, yeah, I
mean it s all consuming I think, you know, and it s, it s ridiculous. I never used to,
you know, used to, I think, oh, no, that s for old, I suppose, yes, I m an old man, but
that s for old, old guys, you know. But it s the most difficult game I ve ever had to
play. God, it s difficult. But it s a lovely game. Fascinating. It s great. Because you
cannot think about anything else while you re playing it. Yeah. And so it does empty
you. It s a wonderfully cathartic game. Yeah. And I can work with wood, so it s, it s, it
s satisfying to actually, to make or build something out of, out of wood, whether you,
whether it s a cupboard or a staircase or whatever, you know, or something, a garden.
But yeah, there are, I suppose. I do, er, watercolours too. Ah, yes. So then the camera,
camera pan round to his watercolours. An insect. No, no, no, no, and I play golf and I. Do
you play, you play golf, do you, as well? Yeah. That s great. Also, also, I like working
with wood too. What s your handicap golf age? Er, my youth efficiency. Eighteen. Oh, that
s not bad. No, no, I don t play to it. Round a proper course, eighteen, that s not bad
at all. No, no, no, I don t play to it. I don t play to it. Where, er, who s it? Er,
before Moppen and Wise, was Ben Warris and Jimmy Jules. Jimmy Jules. Yeah. Great double
act. Yeah. And I worked with Ben Warris. I play Archie Rice in a, in a, on tour. And,
er, and Ben Warris was my dad. Yeah. Er, amazing presence, although I couldn t remember the
lines, but he was an amazing presence on stage. It was a privilege to be with him. But he
had, every theatre we were in, he had wonderful stories. And one of his just golf stories.
They played golf of course. All comedians play golf. Yes, they do. And, and that s how
Al Reed became Al Reed because he, Al Reed could afford, you know, to play golf. And
he had a sausage factory, didn t he? So anyway. So he did. So he did. Tommy Cooper felt very
left out. And, er, Ben Warris and, er, used to, Tommy, they used to get Tommy into the
dressing room for a laugh. And they used to say, Come on, Tommy. Come on, Tommy. What
s your, show us your tricks. What have you got, sir? And Tommy Cooper would do these
tricks and, you know, and they would fail. So they said, You know, it s silly being a
straight, you ve got to do this act. They were very good at picking people up and telling
them what they should do for their act. In fact, Morcombe and Wise, they said to Morcombe
and Wise, Er, sharpen up, buy your decent suits, your slovenly, you know, they were,
they re on the bottom of the, the, the bill that they were top of. Er, and he, they were
an amazing act, Ben Warris and, but, er, they said, so Tommy felt very left out because
everyone was playing golf at the time. Tommy didn t get up too well in the morning. And,
but, anyway, Tommy went off and got some plus fours in the clubs. You know, as you can imagine,
he got, getting, you know, getting, and he, he knew where they were, the club. And, er,
he got there and there s nobody there. And he s, er, with all his, all his stuff on,
all his stuff looking silly. And people peak out on the top of his big head and his big
feet and his big back clubs. And there s nobody there. Well, in the distance, they re all
coming back because they ve been there since eight o clock. But it s eleven o clock and
they re all finished. And it s another trick gone wrong. He said, I m not playing this
game. And he went off. And that s their story of, er, Tommy Cooper. Tommy Cooper. Wonderful.
Gosh, we do, I do, I digress. No, it s, it d be interesting. It knows stories well enough.
If you really were marooned on a jungle planet like Kemble in Mission to the Unknown. Kemble,
is that the name? Erm, what luxury would each of you most desire? Gosh, I d love to say
like Spike Milligan about your club. About Memphis. He said that and there s an island
there s, I m not that, er, that s a, it s a tough one. Sudbrook Park. Is what? Sudbrook
Park on a set of golf clubs. Oh, I see. And a jungle planet. If I wasn t allowed, wasn
t allowed that, I d just take an eight iron and an endless supply of golf balls, you know.
Oh, I don t know. I don t know. I don t know. I don t want to. I m a bit serious. I d probably
take an axe. An axe. Oh, yeah. To make a canoe. To get off the island. Er, er, this is, this
is the last one, I think. Not the bad one, the last one. Any unfulfilled ambitions? Oh,
well, I m the last person to ask about ambitions because I have none and never have had any,
and so I still don t. I m not, I, I, I think as an actor, it s very different when you
say it, but, er, actors and, always want to work and the problem with acting is that you,
you know, that you, we re largely unemployed or we don t work as much as we would like.
Speak for yourself. Well, okay, I do speak for myself. No, no, that s all right. But
it s true in a sense, isn t it? Yeah, yeah. And we would all have liked to have worked
more, I would love to have worked more and it s all a little bit, er, it s all a bit
of history now for me. So I, again, I don t think I have very much ambition in that,
in that way because I ve seen so much of it. What about you, Simon? I d like to be an actor.
You d like to be an actor. One day, one day I ll be an actor. No, I don t, I m not keen
on acting. I haven t been for eight years actually. I like directing very, very much
and teaching. I ve been doing a lot of drama teaching and it s nice to sort of see faces
appearing, young faces appearing on the box that you think, Ah, that s one of my students
or, you know, and so that s, that s good. I mean I have a terrible ambition now because
I wanted to play, er, always wanted to play Hamlet and I was never chosen to play Hamlet.
I ve been in three productions and Ian Richardson s Hamlet I was in, actually, at Birmingham
when I directed his first Hamlet. And, er, I thought when I was a young actor, I was
The old ref. This is Ian, Ian, er, The old ref. The old ref, that s right, yeah. And,
er, I was a young actor who had gone up there and I was playing that terrible part at the
end, er, 14 Broths, you know, waiting out the play to come out. It s 14 Broths. The
young prince who comes out at the end. And I, and Ian was getting, er, there was a lot
of colds going round again. He was getting more and more flu on his voice and I was thinking,
so I started to learn Hamlet. You told me about it. I thought er, you were you were
you were doing it. You were trying to understand. Oh no, no, no understanding, you see, and
I thought there s no understudies. And, and, you know, I, I, I know the part and, er, you
know, if Ian s off, they ll sort of say, Oh my God, and I ll say Oh, I know the part.
No, never happened. It was never off. No. I played Claudius, which is not a bad second
prize. You know, the king. Very good second prize. Yeah, I enjoyed it. But, er, obviously,
So obviously, you know, but yeah, it's not sort of a burning ambition, but apart from
that, I don't know, you're always looking ahead really, aren't you?
I remember Sybil Thorndyke when she was about 90.
You didn't understand it either.
No, that's not good enough.
But I always remember her giving a speech.
She was opening Leatherhead Theatre, the Thorndyke Theatre at Leatherhead.
And I don't know, she must have been about 80, 80 something then I suppose.
But her speech was all about the future and looking forward.
Not about the past, not what parts I've played, and you know, I'm glad this theatre's named
after me because of the traditions of the theatre.
It was all what she was going to play in the future.
So therefore it's unfulfilled ambition all the time.
You're always looking, I suppose, to direct.
For me, it's to direct.
She was a wonderful, she was wonderfully naive and she was always looking to the future.
She studied Greek and Latin and write till the very end of her life.
There was a wonderful story that somebody told me, they were sitting in the theatre,
I don't know what theatre it was, somewhere, a stone theatre, in the Maffinay, and they
were suddenly aware that it was Sybil Thorndyke and Lewis Casson sitting there in front of
them.
And the lights went down and Sybil said, Oh, I do love a play.
And I said oh good Sir, sorry, I can't go on now, I've gone to too much and won't be
moving on no more.
So I picked up the aye theatre and rove over to Belgium, the way that language got along
with audio in until now, so I'm not terribly hooked now, I'm not entirely that stuff, so
but anyway.
best, or that, yes. I'd love to see something really well, something I don't, a master or
mistress or whatever you like to call it, of their craft, and to see it, even if it's
woodwork or whatever, to see these. And painting, I'd love to be able to paint. I'd play a musical
instrument. I can't.
So would I.
Yeah.
Oh come on.
But I'd love to play a musical instrument. I've never made any instruments. But yes,
but yeah, woodwork I can. Good question.
Oh all right, I'll come back to it.