WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:15.600 I was born in South Wales, I was born in Pontypridd in the Rhondda Valley. I'm the son of a Welsh 00:15.600 --> 00:20.800 Presbyterian minister who changed to a Church of England vicar, so we left Wales when I 00:20.800 --> 00:27.240 was five. So a few years in the Rhondda and then after the war to Warwickshire, where 00:27.240 --> 00:32.360 I grew up, where I spent the next nearly 20 years of my life, first of all very briefly 00:32.360 --> 00:38.360 in Uneaton and then two country parishes, one called Temple Grafton just outside Stratford 00:38.360 --> 00:43.000 where my dad was the vicar. We were there for six years and then moved just down the 00:43.000 --> 00:49.480 road to a small market town called Ulster, old Roman town, where he was the rector. That's 00:49.480 --> 00:52.800 where I grew up. 00:52.800 --> 00:59.000 Was there a particular person or event that inspired you to become an actor? 00:59.000 --> 01:05.000 There was a person, I would name, like I think many actors do, I would name the teacher at 01:05.000 --> 01:11.100 school who produced, we used to say produced then, not directed, but he directed the school 01:11.100 --> 01:16.320 plays when I was at Marlborough. I went to a boys public school called Marlborough and 01:16.320 --> 01:21.920 Kenneth Keast was the name, I like to say his name to remember him. He was casting St 01:21.920 --> 01:27.440 Joan, Bernard Shaw's play St Joan and because it was an all boys school, a boy was going 01:27.440 --> 01:34.320 to get the leading part of Joan, wonderful part, massive part, you know heroic, complex 01:34.320 --> 01:41.000 and I thought I want to play St Joan. I was 16, I was nearly six foot tall with a broken 01:41.000 --> 01:47.880 voice but I thought I could do it and I got it and it was that part, I'd done school 01:47.880 --> 01:52.720 plays before, I had done quite a few but it was Kenneth Keast directing me in St Joan 01:52.720 --> 01:57.880 that really made me feel I could be an actor and that acting was a good way of life because 01:57.880 --> 02:06.320 in the 1960s, late 1950s, early 60s, that period, there was still some opposition from 02:06.320 --> 02:11.080 parents and school to saying I want to be an actor. You were meant to say I want to 02:11.080 --> 02:15.200 go to university and then I want to be a lawyer or a doctor or into the army or that from 02:15.200 --> 02:20.960 my school, a lot of pressure that way but I stuck out for being an actor. I went on 02:20.960 --> 02:25.800 to university, I did, I went to Oxford but I spent the whole time acting. I treated Oxford 02:25.800 --> 02:31.320 as a drama school really because I felt in a way that's where I really wanted to go. 02:31.320 --> 02:37.760 But Kenneth Keast is the man I'd like to mention. My aunt, I had two aunts who acted, 02:37.760 --> 02:43.240 one professionally, one as an amateur. The amateur one when I was young took me to particularly 02:43.240 --> 02:47.120 the cinema and to the theatre in Aberystwyth where we used to go every holidays to see 02:47.120 --> 02:54.720 my granny and my aunt Dolly was my favourite aunt and we were always in the cinema, I mean 02:54.720 --> 02:57.680 every night in Aberystwyth through the summer holidays. There were three cinemas and they 02:57.680 --> 03:01.440 changed the programme halfway through the week so you could see six films a week. I 03:01.440 --> 03:06.600 actually wrote the Cambrian News, the local paper, aged 11 because one week there were 03:06.600 --> 03:12.280 X films in all the cinemas for half the week and so I wrote protesting that nobody under 03:12.280 --> 03:16.880 the age of 18 could go to the cinema for three days that week. It was my first letter to 03:16.880 --> 03:22.800 the press. Apart from your aunties were there any other family members in the acting profession? 03:22.800 --> 03:28.800 No but my father being a priest was a very good actor. I say that in the right sense 03:28.800 --> 03:35.320 I think, I'm not putting him down by that. But I think if you're a really good priest 03:35.320 --> 03:40.800 you have to have an acting ability, the ability to preach and to move people and to inspire 03:40.800 --> 03:47.760 them to conduct a service with the love of the ritual. He loved music, he loved ritual. 03:47.760 --> 03:54.240 He had a great presence and he had a lovely voice and so there was a lot of acting in 03:54.240 --> 04:00.640 him and also of course you've got to act. You can have a flu that morning, you can have 04:00.640 --> 04:05.520 had a row with your wife, you've still got to go in church and convince and so he could 04:05.520 --> 04:06.600 do it that way as well. 04:06.600 --> 04:13.360 You mentioned Oxford, where did you do your formal training and did you study with anyone 04:13.360 --> 04:14.360 that we would know? 04:14.360 --> 04:21.320 I didn't do any formal training, I didn't. Quite a few of us at Oxford turned professional 04:21.320 --> 04:25.560 after our years at Oxford. We were very lucky in that we were always acting in the Oxford 04:25.560 --> 04:31.000 Playhouse to paying members of the public. We spent long rehearsal periods and we would 04:31.000 --> 04:35.240 have workshops where we would work on voice and movement and some of the shows we did 04:35.240 --> 04:43.080 involved a lot of what I would call collective work. We did a final show at Oxford called 04:43.080 --> 04:50.200 Hang Down Your Head and Die which we created ourselves. So that was very much a stepping 04:50.200 --> 04:55.920 stone into the business and it went into the West End and it was through that show that 04:55.920 --> 05:00.840 I really was able to become a professional actor, fairly comfortably I got an agent that 05:00.840 --> 05:01.840 way. 05:01.840 --> 05:06.880 I didn't go to drama school, looking back as I said earlier I would probably have liked 05:06.880 --> 05:11.440 to go to drama school instead of university if I'd had my time again. I think that's what 05:11.440 --> 05:16.280 I would do and I would certainly say now, young actors, it's probably best if you go 05:16.280 --> 05:21.760 to drama school because you bond together, you get a lot of discipline work in the various 05:21.760 --> 05:26.680 aspects of being an actor and I think you need that. But I enjoyed my time at university, 05:26.680 --> 05:27.680 it was good. 05:27.680 --> 05:30.360 Was there anyone at university that we would know? 05:30.360 --> 05:38.600 Yes, at university I was there with Michael York, he was Michael Johnson at university 05:38.600 --> 05:44.600 and he of course went straight into films from Oxford. He did Taming of the Shoe, an 05:44.600 --> 05:50.040 accident and then a cabaret and had a very successful period, still successful but he 05:50.040 --> 05:56.400 had that very, very golden period of his career. Oliver Ford Davis who is now acting, doing 05:56.400 --> 06:00.360 some wonderful stuff and he's come into his age, I think he was a very mature actor at 06:00.360 --> 06:06.280 Oxford. He's won Olivier Awards, acted at the National Theatre in Racing Demon and other 06:06.280 --> 06:10.840 plays. He'd be very well known now and of course I was at Oxford with Michael Palin 06:10.840 --> 06:16.560 and Terry Jones who I'm sure you know well. 06:16.560 --> 06:20.280 Did you have to do any other jobs while you were acting? 06:20.280 --> 06:25.560 Other jobs when not acting, yes. My very first part time job was I was a checker at a dairy 06:25.560 --> 06:31.680 to earn money when I was sort of broke in one of my first summers. So I was counting 06:31.680 --> 06:36.760 milk bottles and this is before we left Warwickshire, I'd just started being a professional actor. 06:36.760 --> 06:41.800 I did that and I also drove a van for a friend. I used to deliver brush and comb sets, vanity 06:41.800 --> 06:49.520 sets for women's dressing tables and my friend's father made them in a little factory in Ulster 06:49.520 --> 06:54.240 and he said would I deliver them around the country and I used to pick up his van, little 06:54.240 --> 06:58.920 van and go to Timothy White's and Boots all over the country with these vanity sets. The 06:58.920 --> 07:05.080 van was never packed well so I'd arrive and open the back doors at Timothy White's Blackpool 07:05.080 --> 07:09.960 or wherever and the contents of the van would tumble out and people would look at them and 07:09.960 --> 07:16.120 say, oh yeah, Grace Associates. So I learnt to stop outside towns and pack the van. So 07:16.120 --> 07:25.240 I did that. I've done driving jobs later on in the 70s, drove tourists around London, 07:25.240 --> 07:30.680 picked up Americans at hotels, done that. And then more recently I've taught a lot of 07:30.680 --> 07:36.480 businessmen presentation skills. Quite a lot of actors have moved into that full time some 07:36.480 --> 07:42.280 of them and it was tempting because it can be well paid and I moved around a lot of software 07:42.280 --> 07:50.360 companies, big ones like CSC and EDS and I'd work with teams of guys who were making big 07:50.360 --> 07:55.760 presentations of their bids for big contracts and I'd work on their performing skills, their 07:55.760 --> 08:01.640 presentation skills and I enjoyed it to a point but I think I've directed a lot in the 08:01.640 --> 08:08.960 theatre so I was using that skill really but I didn't want it to take over my career so 08:08.960 --> 08:13.800 on the whole I don't do it now, maybe an odd one off but it was very useful at times when 08:13.800 --> 08:18.760 I didn't have work. I certainly have not worked all my career. You hear some actors say they've 08:18.760 --> 08:23.560 never been out of work ever. I think, God, you are very lucky. But no, I have had periods 08:23.560 --> 08:26.200 where I've had to do other jobs and that's what they've been. 08:26.200 --> 08:30.040 Can you remember what your first television appearance was? 08:30.040 --> 08:37.680 I can. I can. My very first television appearance was in Crossroads and it was two episodes 08:37.680 --> 08:41.960 of Crossroads and they were episodes, something like episodes nine and ten and Crossroads 08:41.960 --> 08:48.080 was only seen then in the Midlands and the Channel Islands because the other ITV regions 08:48.080 --> 08:54.840 wouldn't take it. They thought it was so bad and I was playing an Irish television engineer 08:54.840 --> 09:00.880 called Ted Roach and I had to enter the Crossroads motel as a cliffhanger to one episode carrying 09:00.880 --> 09:05.840 a 26-inch television set and looking over the top of it and saying, I'm looking for 09:05.840 --> 09:11.440 Mrs Richardson. That was my first line on British television and I think it's the last 09:11.440 --> 09:13.120 time I've played an Irishman. 09:13.120 --> 09:16.960 What about experiences of live television? 09:16.960 --> 09:22.200 Experiences of live television. A few of the early televisions I did were live. I think 09:22.200 --> 09:27.680 some episodes of the Newcomers were live. I think they were. My memory tells me that. 09:27.680 --> 09:34.520 And also a BBC Two, which I forget what it was called, I know was live but my main memory 09:34.520 --> 09:38.840 of live television is a production at Thames Television called The Night of Talavera in 09:38.840 --> 09:43.320 about 1968 when we were just about to start and everybody was so nervous and keyed up 09:43.320 --> 09:47.120 and you could just, you could hold the adrenaline in your hand, it was so solid on the studio 09:47.120 --> 09:52.360 floor and we were just about to start and I was in the first scene, nine o'clock, counting 09:52.360 --> 09:56.520 down and we got to ten seconds, Edward Woodward and me facing each other across a desk and 09:56.520 --> 10:00.820 you could just see him like that and me like that and the number one cameraman who was 10:00.820 --> 10:04.680 on the camera shooting on to Edward said, my camera's gone dead, my camera's gone dead, 10:04.680 --> 10:09.200 camera, camera, bring me the reserve camera and chaos in the studios, this reserve camera 10:09.200 --> 10:13.760 was hurtled across the studio floor and it got there just in time. That's my main memory 10:13.760 --> 10:17.640 of live television and I wouldn't like to go through that again. 10:17.640 --> 10:23.720 You've made several film appearances, how does working on films differ from television? 10:23.720 --> 10:28.720 The difference between film and television acting now is considerably less than it used 10:28.720 --> 10:33.720 to be because now virtually all of television is done as if it's film. It's done with a 10:33.720 --> 10:40.760 film crew and a film camera, well it might be a digital camera, you know, but the set-up 10:40.760 --> 10:49.200 is with a crew unit that is like a film crew. In the old days there was a big difference 10:49.200 --> 10:55.400 because television was rehearsed like a theatre play for a week or two weeks or three weeks, 10:55.400 --> 10:58.640 you'd be in a rehearsal room, you'd go through the scenes over and over again, the director 10:58.640 --> 11:02.600 would give notes, say try something again, you'd try it again different ways and then 11:02.600 --> 11:06.240 you'd go into the studio for a day or two days or three days depending on the length 11:06.240 --> 11:11.680 of production when you'd suddenly record it all in one go, you know, and then they started 11:11.680 --> 11:15.640 doing what was called rehearse record, so you'd rehearse a scene in the studio and 11:15.640 --> 11:18.800 then you'd record it and you'd rehearse another scene and record it but you'd go through those 11:18.800 --> 11:23.960 scenes, you'd go through the whole scene with four or five cameras covering the scene, you 11:23.960 --> 11:27.320 know, in a house the cameras would be poking through windows, they'd have special traps 11:27.320 --> 11:31.440 built in walls, they'd be out front in the fourth wall that wasn't there and it would 11:31.440 --> 11:36.000 be shot from all those angles all at the same time and they'd be cutting between it in the 11:36.000 --> 11:41.280 gallery. Film, you know, one camera, so when you went out on location for television or 11:41.280 --> 11:45.320 when you got a film job it was very different because suddenly you were being shot, your 11:45.320 --> 11:50.400 close-ups just concentrating on you, so I would say there was a big difference and you 11:50.400 --> 11:55.600 slowly learnt that film acting required, it did require a different technique, it required 11:55.600 --> 12:00.840 a much more internalised, you know, just showing everything if you could in your eyes and, 12:00.840 --> 12:05.160 you know, feeling it, it didn't have to be projected in a big way. Television sometimes 12:05.160 --> 12:11.120 was somewhat between those two styles, between theatre style and film style. Now as I say 12:11.120 --> 12:16.000 I think it's changed on, people are either using film technique and trying to be as, 12:16.000 --> 12:21.480 you know, truthful in an intimate way as possible or on stage you're having to be that on a 12:21.480 --> 12:26.320 larger scale with more projection and reach the back of the audience. What was your first 12:26.320 --> 12:34.880 film work? My very first film was Decline and Fall, Evening War's famous novel, set 12:34.880 --> 12:40.880 in a seedy British school and then the society life of the hero after that, he gets involved 12:40.880 --> 12:48.160 in absolute mayhem and I played his friend and best man who he'd met at university, who 12:48.160 --> 12:53.320 was called Alistair Digby Vane Trumpington. So I had a tendency to play these sort of 12:53.320 --> 12:59.560 characters at the start of my career and it was a big movie, it had Donald Woolfett and 12:59.560 --> 13:04.440 Liam McCurran and Colin Blakely and Robert Harris and Donald Sinden and there were some 13:04.440 --> 13:11.400 lovely performances and it was a reasonable success but I had a very nice part and I loved 13:11.400 --> 13:15.920 doing it. Your first movie, it's very exciting, it was shot at MGM Studios in Boreham Wood 13:15.920 --> 13:20.840 where they built amazing sets. We filmed on location in Oxford and in London outside the 13:20.840 --> 13:28.320 Ritz I remember. Donald Woolfett was an extraordinary man, he was by then at the end of his great 13:28.320 --> 13:33.640 great career as one of our great English theatre knights and he was being a bit of a scallywag 13:33.640 --> 13:37.880 and I had lunch with him and it was lovely. A lovely French actress called Geneviève 13:37.880 --> 13:44.160 Page was in it as well. It was a great first film and a lot of memories. You've also done 13:44.160 --> 13:52.120 a lot of theatre work, do you prefer modern classics or Shakespeare? I enjoy doing Shakespeare 13:52.120 --> 13:58.680 and more modern playwrights and I've sort of moved between the two. I had a period where 13:58.680 --> 14:05.800 I played Macbeth and Richard II in Rep and I got a lot out of that. I think every actor 14:05.800 --> 14:11.480 needs to play, if you can, if you have the luck to be cast, if you can play the big Shakespearean 14:11.480 --> 14:19.960 roles they give you an immense challenge and an immense thrill to play them if you get 14:19.960 --> 14:25.880 near them, if you can climb up the mountains that they are even halfway. Macbeth sort of 14:25.880 --> 14:32.200 gave me a great regeneration of my career I felt in my mid-thirties. I'd had a period 14:32.200 --> 14:35.360 where I hadn't done so much theatre and I came back to it and had a bit of a warm up 14:35.360 --> 14:41.440 with plays and then I played Macbeth at Liverpool. I'll never forget that. And Richard II, I 14:41.440 --> 14:48.000 played it a couple of years later. Again, only in Rep but it doesn't matter in a way 14:48.000 --> 14:54.080 where you play them, the part remains the same and the challenge. Then more modern writers, 14:54.080 --> 15:01.520 I've always loved doing plays of Stoppard, Simon Gray, Christopher Hampton, those kind 15:01.520 --> 15:11.400 of writers. I like playing insecure, bumbling, academic guys. Plays like Butley and the Philanthropist, 15:11.400 --> 15:21.760 Travesties, otherwise engaged. Some of my equus, I've enjoyed playing men who are perhaps 15:21.760 --> 15:26.720 good at their academic life, not so good at communication and showing relationships not 15:26.720 --> 15:30.240 being successful. It's fun to play those, they're a challenge and I've done a lot of 15:30.240 --> 15:31.240 work like that. Yes? 15:31.240 --> 15:39.560 One of your latest projects is of course the new Robin Hood for the BBC. What is it like 15:39.560 --> 15:44.640 working with Patrick Troutman's grandson in his stories about this production? 15:44.640 --> 15:49.360 Robin Hood has been a great experience and I hope will continue to be because we go back 15:49.360 --> 15:57.040 to Hungary in a month to start series two. I don't know where to start really with stories. 15:57.040 --> 16:02.440 I'd have to, well of course the main story of Robin Hood, first of all for Doctor Who 16:02.440 --> 16:10.820 lovers Sam Troutman, who is in it playing much Robin's servant, is of course the grandson 16:10.820 --> 16:15.320 of Patrick Troutman and has inherited the acting ability. His father of course David 16:15.320 --> 16:19.240 Troutman also has inherited it so they're a dynasty of great actors. Sam's a lovely 16:19.240 --> 16:26.160 guy, really nice and very good. I wouldn't have a word against any of the cast. We all 16:26.160 --> 16:33.000 got on terribly well, even Keith Allen we got on terribly well with, a lovely guy too 16:33.000 --> 16:38.240 and a character, a real character of course. The main drama of Robin Hood was of course 16:38.240 --> 16:44.640 that the tapes, the master tapes for the middle block of episodes, episodes five, six, seven 16:44.640 --> 16:50.160 and eight were stolen. Now the master tapes in the format that they were filming were 16:50.160 --> 16:54.200 like the negatives of film, they call them master tapes because it's on whatever it's 16:54.200 --> 17:00.760 on, whatever the quality of the tape is they're shooting on. And we were shooting in high 17:00.760 --> 17:08.720 definition and we had this massive drama towards the end of the filming out in Hungary when 17:08.720 --> 17:17.000 they went into the editing suite one morning and a pile, 200 odd master tapes had been 17:17.000 --> 17:24.800 stolen. Absolute crisis you can imagine. It was on the news, BBC News two or three days 17:24.800 --> 17:28.840 later and of course people back home they were ringing me up and saying are you that 17:28.840 --> 17:34.200 bad in the series that you've nicked the tapes? It's a put up job, it must be, this is a PR 17:34.200 --> 17:39.120 stunt. Then it was very good publicity but it was absolutely true. A disgruntled studio 17:39.120 --> 17:45.400 employee in Hungary had got together with an accomplice who lived in the nearby village 17:45.400 --> 17:48.600 and they plotted and they worked out, they could get into the editing suite, I don't 17:48.600 --> 17:53.560 think it was very secured at night, and they stole this quantity of tapes, the size of 17:53.560 --> 17:58.160 a fridge freezer I think if you put them all on top of each other and they took them away. 17:58.160 --> 18:02.280 And then there was this process that we were kept, it was kept pretty secret what was going 18:02.280 --> 18:06.920 on but the producers were in negotiation I think, approaches were made by these guys 18:06.920 --> 18:12.200 somehow that they wanted money, I don't know how much, a lot. And eventually I think an 18:12.200 --> 18:16.840 offer was made and that was about to happen because it was getting nearer and nearer to 18:16.840 --> 18:21.360 the end of the series and if they hadn't got them back then those episodes couldn't have 18:21.360 --> 18:26.520 gone out in high definition and that would have been a serious effect on sales, particularly 18:26.520 --> 18:34.360 to America. So, crisis, but the police were now heavily interviewing everybody in the 18:34.360 --> 18:37.920 studio and finding out what they could and strong arm tactics and I think eventually 18:37.920 --> 18:44.040 somebody spoke, somebody gave away some information and they caught the two guys moving all the 18:44.040 --> 18:51.000 tapes behind a bush near the studio. It ended like the Robin Hood story really. But they 18:51.000 --> 18:54.960 got them and they got them back and it meant the series could go out, the whole series 18:54.960 --> 18:55.960 in HD. 18:55.960 --> 18:58.520 I actually held them for a moment. 18:58.520 --> 19:03.280 They did but they didn't pay, I think it's correct, although as I say nobody knows exactly 19:03.280 --> 19:07.680 what happened because cards were kept very, very close to chests but I don't think money 19:07.680 --> 19:14.080 was handed over in the end. I think they caught them, they got them back and luckily. So I 19:14.080 --> 19:17.560 think from now on companies, because every company heard about this, every television 19:17.560 --> 19:21.840 company in the world will be thinking we must clone our master tapes because there was no 19:21.840 --> 19:29.760 cloned, there was no identical copy and apparently you can clone them, but they didn't. 19:29.760 --> 19:34.600 I forbid it. Your hair was a warning. Next time you will hang. 19:34.600 --> 19:38.440 That is my problem. How can you be so selfish? 19:38.440 --> 19:45.520 It is my neck. I am your father. This is my house and if 19:45.520 --> 19:51.240 you... You fear for your own neck, that is the truth. 19:51.240 --> 19:59.840 If you cannot obey me... I cannot obey you. 19:59.840 --> 20:01.080 Then you leave this house. 20:01.080 --> 20:07.120 Talking about Robin Hood, have you seen the Dead Ringers comedy show Take Off? 20:07.120 --> 20:13.840 I saw it last week, I saw Dead Ringers last week where they are mocking the location titles 20:13.840 --> 20:17.960 at the bottom. I thought it was great, absolutely brilliant. I can see why people find those 20:17.960 --> 20:22.480 really annoying. I have begun to find them annoying. I just think a bit too many of them 20:22.480 --> 20:27.240 and some of them are so obvious. I think if they had been used sparingly perhaps. So it 20:27.240 --> 20:32.400 is going to be interesting to see if they lose a bit of pride and cut them or whether 20:32.400 --> 20:36.040 they keep with them. I don't know what they will do. You can see it is a good idea, you 20:36.040 --> 20:41.160 hear that arrow effect and you see Knight and Hall where my character lived. I thought 20:41.160 --> 20:45.680 that is great. But then once you know that is it and there weren't that many different 20:45.680 --> 20:49.040 locations I felt they were pushing their luck and I thought Dead Ringers did it brilliantly 20:49.040 --> 20:51.880 actually. Robin, we have been summoned to Loxley Manor 20:51.880 --> 20:59.920 by Marion. Robin, I fear that even now the Sheriff is forming plans at Nottingham Castle 20:59.920 --> 21:07.560 for your demise. Come. Now listen to me you useless incompetent cretins. I want Robin's 21:07.560 --> 21:12.480 head brought to me on the... Oh God. I was just getting up a head of steam there. Is 21:12.480 --> 21:18.200 that really necessary? Look Marion just said I was in Nottingham Castle. Why do they need 21:18.200 --> 21:28.800 a caption to tell them what they already heard? Are they morons? 21:28.800 --> 21:33.800 Talking about Doctor Who a bit more now. When did you first become aware that classic shows 21:33.800 --> 21:37.440 such as Doctor Who, I mean there are many others, when did you first become aware that 21:37.440 --> 21:44.760 they had been jumped by the BBC and lost forever? I wasn't aware that my Doctor Who story had 21:44.760 --> 21:53.280 been joked for some time. I didn't look on it as the greatest job in my life and therefore 21:53.280 --> 21:57.800 I wasn't hanging on to information about it. It was a very enjoyable job as I said. Loved 21:57.800 --> 22:02.160 doing it. And then you move on, you do other things, you do other things. I didn't keep 22:02.160 --> 22:09.080 and I didn't start getting letters, fan mail for some time I would say. Looking back, through 22:09.080 --> 22:16.440 the 60s, after 66 when we did it, into the 70s, I think it had gone almost from my mind. 22:16.440 --> 22:24.080 And then actually about 1975 I lived next door to Tom Baker for about two or three years 22:24.080 --> 22:31.880 in Notting Hill. We were in adjoining houses. And I started to realise through him and through 22:31.880 --> 22:37.500 the crowds of children outside who discovered where he lived as to how popular Doctor Who 22:37.500 --> 22:44.640 was becoming and therefore how the past Doctor Whos would also be popular. And I would think 22:44.640 --> 22:51.880 it was in that period when I started thinking, I wonder if it exists, and then probably somebody 22:51.880 --> 22:58.680 told me that it didn't. It had gone. But I couldn't put my finger on a particular moment. 22:58.680 --> 23:03.440 I think it's very sad. I think it's really sad the BBC ditched so much, junked all those 23:03.440 --> 23:08.800 episodes and of other dramas that I was in. I did quite a lot of television in the 60s 23:08.800 --> 23:13.200 and most of that has gone. Black and white has gone. 23:13.200 --> 23:18.200 Was it a nightmare living next to Tom Baker? 23:18.200 --> 23:23.960 We had some great times, Tom Baker. I remember him taking me off. He said, come on, we're 23:23.960 --> 23:33.400 going off to Jerry's. We're going to Jerry's and this club and drinking. And I said, I 23:33.400 --> 23:37.640 think the drinking club were in the West End. And we went there one day and nattering and 23:37.640 --> 23:42.280 chatting and doing crosswords. And it was about three in the morning. And then he said, 23:42.280 --> 23:45.720 come on, we're going somewhere else now. And off we went. And then we were, I remember 23:45.720 --> 23:51.520 going back on the bus at about 6am to Notting Hill where we lived. You'd hear his voice 23:51.520 --> 23:56.440 booming with Marianne who he lived with. And you could hear their voice, his voice particularly 23:56.440 --> 24:03.200 through the wall or on the street. It was great. Very good memories of him. 24:03.200 --> 24:06.520 I've never worked with him since. I haven't worked with him, sorry, I haven't worked with 24:06.520 --> 24:11.840 him at all. But I know him well obviously from having been next to him. An immensely 24:11.840 --> 24:18.280 popular doctor, wasn't he? Immensely popular I think. Still is the perhaps number one doctor 24:18.280 --> 24:19.280 of popularity. 24:19.280 --> 24:22.480 You did actually appear in a production with Tom Baker. 24:22.480 --> 24:23.480 Did I? 24:23.480 --> 24:24.480 Selling Hitler. 24:24.480 --> 24:25.480 Ah. Yes, yes. I've forgotten. 24:25.480 --> 24:26.480 I don't know if you shared scenes together. 24:26.480 --> 24:27.480 No, I don't. No, we didn't. A lot of people were in Selling Hitler. I don't know if you 24:27.480 --> 24:28.480 shared scenes together. 24:28.480 --> 24:33.200 I've forgotten. No, I don't. No, we didn't. A lot of people were in Selling Hitler who 24:33.200 --> 24:40.800 I never met. Selling Hitler, also good memories of Selling Hitler because Barry Humphries 24:40.800 --> 24:44.960 who I did have scenes with played Rupert Murdoch. So it was very interesting to see Barry Humphries 24:44.960 --> 24:50.480 out of drag playing Murdoch, particularly playing Murdoch. You know, who he I think 24:50.480 --> 24:57.960 probably despised, you know, but wanted to play him and played him very well. 24:57.960 --> 25:04.440 My memory, main memory of Selling Hitler, I was playing the, sort of, one of the editors 25:04.440 --> 25:09.560 of the Times called Brian MacArthur, a real guy who I'd met actually not long before. 25:09.560 --> 25:13.000 By pure coincidence I met him at a dinner party and I looked nothing like him, nothing 25:13.000 --> 25:21.000 like him at all. And he had famously, when they discovered that the diaries were forgery, 25:21.000 --> 25:27.280 sort of the night just after they'd published them, Trevor Roper, the historian, Lord Dacre, 25:27.280 --> 25:32.600 had gone to authenticate the diaries, he'd been flown to Switzerland. And then they discovered 25:32.600 --> 25:37.520 too late that they were fake. And my character slid down a wall apparently in real life, 25:37.520 --> 25:42.600 just absolutely in shock horror when the news broke. So we recreated that. But I'd filmed 25:42.600 --> 25:47.640 with Alan Bennett who played Trevor Roper, the historian, and we'd filmed at Gatwick 25:47.640 --> 25:52.000 when I was putting him on a plane to go and look at the diaries, look at these Hitler 25:52.000 --> 25:57.320 diaries. And as we were about to do the first take of me and Alan Bennett walking across 25:57.320 --> 26:03.640 Gatwick, he suddenly just turned to me and said, oh Clive Dunne, Clive Dunne's walked 26:03.640 --> 26:10.360 into shot. And sure enough, Clive Dunne was going on holiday and was walking across in 26:10.360 --> 26:16.360 front of the camera. And that's my Alan Bennett story. 26:16.360 --> 26:22.280 Look, Lady Catherine, sensational. I'll never see another front page like that as long as 26:22.280 --> 26:33.360 you live. I think I'd better ring you back later. Hugh thinks the diaries may be forgeries. 26:33.360 --> 26:47.960 I'd better talk to Murdoch in New York. I've also got you appearing against other 26:47.960 --> 26:54.400 Doctor Who's with other productions which you may not remember. You were in the same 26:54.400 --> 27:00.360 film as John Pertwee in one of our dinosaurs. Ah yes, I did know that, I'd forgotten that, 27:00.360 --> 27:05.720 John Pertwee in one of our dinosaurs. I was only in one sequence in that. And there's 27:05.720 --> 27:09.200 a nice little story about that because you know when we film everything is perfect. You 27:09.200 --> 27:14.680 know if you fluff, you dry, you retake it. Well if you watch One of Our Dinosaurs is 27:14.680 --> 27:22.000 Missing Carefully, I play a reporter who comes into the office of Richard Pearson, I think, 27:22.000 --> 27:27.240 was the actor. Richard Pearson who played the guy running the Natural History Museum. 27:27.240 --> 27:32.640 And I come in and say there are rumours that a dinosaur skeleton has gone missing. And 27:32.640 --> 27:37.360 if you listen to the dialogue very carefully you'll hear me fluff a word. I can't remember 27:37.360 --> 27:42.320 now what but I saw it on television not long ago and I thought that's extraordinary that 27:42.320 --> 27:48.000 that was put in, you know, they allowed that to happen. So it's always interesting that 27:48.000 --> 27:51.680 people fluff in real life when you talk and yet filming they don't like it. They don't 27:51.680 --> 27:55.560 like it. You know, you've got to be perfect. We've heard rumours about a dinosaur moving 27:55.560 --> 28:02.440 around London. Wonder if you could throw some light on the situation. Dinosaur? Ridiculous, 28:02.440 --> 28:05.800 they've been extinct for hundreds of thousands of years. Yes I understand that. Could it 28:05.800 --> 28:10.880 perhaps be a dinosaur skeleton? Could someone have stolen it? Preposterous. Who would steal 28:10.880 --> 28:17.760 a dinosaur skeleton? No market for it. How would you pawn a dinosaur skeleton, eh? You're 28:17.760 --> 28:21.920 not making sense young man. So it couldn't be one of your dinosaurs, could it? Certainly 28:21.920 --> 28:25.760 not. Not one of mine I can assure you. Not likely one of them wandering about loose. 28:25.760 --> 28:29.640 I run a tight ship here. Could I see your dinosaur, sir? Would give me the background 28:29.640 --> 28:33.560 to write a proper story on the situation. Of course, of course. I've worked with Colin 28:33.560 --> 28:40.680 Baker, the brothers and the Carnforth practice. I did the Carnforth practice first. This was 28:40.680 --> 28:45.360 a series I starred in playing the title role in the seventies, the early seventies. I played 28:45.360 --> 28:53.320 a Lake District solicitor who was an aristocrat. He used to side with tramps and gypsies and 28:53.320 --> 29:00.400 poor shepherds. He was a solicitor who, though he was from a good family, wanted to help 29:00.400 --> 29:04.240 underprivileged clients who he could do something for and didn't charge much. It was a nice 29:04.240 --> 29:09.400 idea actually. We did six episodes. Leonard Roster was in the first episode playing a 29:09.400 --> 29:14.320 gypsy and it was a very strong opening episode. Colin was in one episode, Colin Baker was 29:14.320 --> 29:19.200 in an episode about witchcraft. I remember, I can only remember it was about witchcraft 29:19.200 --> 29:28.120 and he was in that. I went up for the Carnforth practice having not, you know, I'd had a fairly 29:28.120 --> 29:36.400 quiet time and I was told by my agent, they're casting this Lake District solicitor and they 29:36.400 --> 29:41.920 think you could be right for the part. And when I went for the interview, Colin Morris, 29:41.920 --> 29:48.720 who was the producer, said, oh, you're very young. You're very young. I imagine this character 29:48.720 --> 29:56.280 in his late thirties. I was only 30, I think I was 31, coming up to 32 at the time. And 29:56.280 --> 30:00.600 he said, well, let's have a read anyway, have a read. But I, so I thought like you're doing 30:00.600 --> 30:03.320 a lot of jobs, so I'm not going to get this, you know, they're going to look for somebody 30:03.320 --> 30:07.840 older. And so I read it and I thought, oh, I want to play this part. You know, really, 30:07.840 --> 30:14.160 I really feel an affinity for this character. He was a romantic. He, he loved the countryside. 30:14.160 --> 30:20.040 He, he had complicated relationship, you know, he got, he's got a sort of dominant mother. 30:20.040 --> 30:24.040 He got a brother he didn't get on to. So there was an interesting character there. And he 30:24.040 --> 30:28.360 ran the solicitor's office in the Lake District. And there were obviously going to be big, 30:28.360 --> 30:32.520 meaty guest parts coming in. So there would be a chance to, you know, play with, you know, 30:32.520 --> 30:38.040 really good actors. And I read it and he said, well, great, great, go away, take the script 30:38.040 --> 30:42.960 and we'll see how we go from here. So I then got a call saying, work on the script and 30:42.960 --> 30:49.520 come back again. So I went back again and got it. So it was tremendous, you know, your 30:49.520 --> 30:54.120 first starring role in a series you're going to name above the title. So you think, you 30:54.120 --> 30:59.440 think that's it, you know, with all the arrogance of a young actor, you think, my career's, 30:59.440 --> 31:03.960 that's it, it's made, I'm made, I'm made. Well, it didn't exactly turn out like that. 31:03.960 --> 31:09.920 It was, it was wonderful to do and I really enjoyed it. But as it went on, I think I sort 31:09.920 --> 31:15.560 of sensed that it wasn't going to be the biggest success ever. Scripts were very hit or miss. 31:15.560 --> 31:21.440 They didn't all work as well as I would have hoped. And by the time it went out, it was 31:21.440 --> 31:26.280 BBC Two in the first place, it wasn't BBC One. And they put it out pretty late, pretty 31:26.280 --> 31:30.880 late, ten o'clock or something. So it didn't get enormous figures. But it had a following 31:30.880 --> 31:34.600 and I still get people now saying, oh, I wish you'd done more of that. And they repeated 31:34.600 --> 31:42.640 it so it was shown again a few months later. But it's become perhaps equally a regret as 31:42.640 --> 31:51.440 well as an enjoyable memory. It's tinged with regret, the memory of it, in that it didn't 31:51.440 --> 31:55.280 have the life I felt it should have done, both from a selfish point of view and I think 31:55.280 --> 31:59.600 from an impartial point of view. I think it could have had more. But we filmed on location 31:59.600 --> 32:06.280 in the lakes. We had actors, Leonard Rust in the opening episode, Maurice Denham, Pamela 32:06.280 --> 32:13.920 Brown, Sheila Burrell, Amy Delamain played my mother. I just have very happy memories 32:13.920 --> 32:14.920 of it, very happy. 32:14.920 --> 32:20.640 Were you hoping that there would be some sort of follow-up to that production? 32:20.640 --> 32:26.440 Yes, I mean I hoped even if there wasn't going to be more Carnforth practice, then of course 32:26.440 --> 32:30.240 you hope that your career will then go ahead in leaps and bounds. Well, I wouldn't say 32:30.240 --> 32:38.560 it did. In fact, for a period of years after Carnforth, I did relatively little television. 32:38.560 --> 32:44.080 I immediately did something with Richard Burton straight after it, which was great. Richard 32:44.080 --> 32:49.720 Burton playing Churchill and I played Anthony Eden, you know, when he was Foreign Secretary 32:49.720 --> 32:54.960 in the 1930s, when he was a young man. And I met Anthony Eden himself, got photographs 32:54.960 --> 33:01.320 of me and Anthony Eden and I was working with Richard Burton, who I'd also known from a 33:01.320 --> 33:07.360 previous job. And that was straight after Carnforth. I went to the Brothers. But then 33:07.360 --> 33:12.080 television stopped for a bit and I think in those days that could happen. And it might 33:12.080 --> 33:15.240 have been something to do with me, I don't know, but I went off and did a lot of theatre. 33:15.240 --> 33:19.760 So, you know, I spent sort of six or seven years then doing solid theatre and that was 33:19.760 --> 33:23.720 great, and directing a lot. And I ran a theatre at Newbury, I ran the Watermill for three 33:23.720 --> 33:28.920 years, which I'd always wanted to do as I was an artistic director. So then when television 33:28.920 --> 33:35.400 came back, started coming back in 1980, the early 80s, I was ready for it. I'd had a big 33:35.400 --> 33:39.840 chunk of theatre work. And since the early 80s, I've done a lot of television. 33:39.840 --> 33:41.840 Good morning to you, Midway. 33:41.840 --> 33:45.880 Going in or drawing out today, are we? Oh, drawing out, I see. Could you step into my 33:45.880 --> 33:46.880 office, sir? 33:46.880 --> 33:49.960 No, not now. I've got to get back to court. Money brief, of course. 33:49.960 --> 33:53.480 Just a moment of your time, Mr Rumpel. 33:53.480 --> 33:59.120 Gone right over the limit of our overdraft, haven't we, Mr Rumpel? 33:59.120 --> 34:04.400 My overdraft? It's a flea bite compared to what you fellas are lending the Poles. 34:04.400 --> 34:08.120 I don't think the Poles are making out quite so many cheques in favour of Jack Pomeroy, 34:08.120 --> 34:09.480 of Pomeroy's wine. 34:09.480 --> 34:13.800 I'm afraid in many things, Mr Wexford. It's not easy being a parent. 34:13.800 --> 34:18.880 No, it isn't. It's a good thing people don't know that, otherwise they wouldn't dare have 34:18.880 --> 34:19.880 children. 34:19.880 --> 34:25.400 I could never feel like that. I've been a lucky man all my life, but I never discovered 34:25.400 --> 34:31.600 true happiness until I got Alexandra. If I lost her, I'd kill myself. 34:31.600 --> 34:34.280 Oh, come now, you mustn't say that. 34:34.280 --> 34:37.760 It's true, I mean it. 34:37.760 --> 34:40.080 It's about that blackmail note you were telling us about. 34:40.080 --> 34:45.040 Oh, that. Ah, what about it? 34:45.040 --> 34:49.520 Well I could see that you were rather under the impression it had been sent by my wife. 34:49.520 --> 34:50.520 It was her notepaper. 34:50.520 --> 34:56.680 And you would have been quite right. It was her who sent it. It's very stupid, very childish, 34:56.680 --> 34:59.160 all those things, and she bitterly regrets it. 34:59.160 --> 35:00.960 Why are you telling me this? 35:00.960 --> 35:05.200 Because, well, it makes it look as if she might also have had something to do with Westwood's 35:05.200 --> 35:09.640 death. But believe me, I mean all right, a bit of blackmail is one thing, but murder? 35:09.640 --> 35:11.640 What you wanted to see me about? 35:11.640 --> 35:22.640 No, it wasn't. I would like, please, your opinion on this. 35:22.640 --> 35:23.760 You've seen that before, haven't you? 35:23.760 --> 35:26.280 I'm aware of it, yes. 35:26.280 --> 35:29.240 But you don't rate it professionally. 35:29.240 --> 35:34.600 Many great men began their careers as amateurs. Mr. and Mrs. Flux are, however, what one might 35:34.600 --> 35:38.520 call rank amateurs. Rank in the sense of being off. 35:38.520 --> 35:39.920 So it's not a proper history book. 35:39.920 --> 35:42.360 Have you met Mr. and Mrs. Flux? 35:42.360 --> 35:43.920 Ah, yes, we have. 35:43.920 --> 35:49.160 You mustn't confuse amateur dramatics with genuine scholarship. They are very interested 35:49.160 --> 35:50.800 in a house called Wynyard. 35:50.800 --> 35:55.800 Tom, don't let these people do any more damage. 35:55.800 --> 35:58.800 I'm proud of you, son. 35:58.800 --> 36:02.880 What kind of a question is that? 36:02.880 --> 36:03.880 Just answer it. 36:03.880 --> 36:04.880 No, I'm not proud of him. 36:04.880 --> 36:05.880 Is that what you want to hear? 36:05.880 --> 36:06.880 Why? 36:06.880 --> 36:07.880 Because he's weak. He's spoiled and he's squandered every opportunity I've given him. But he's 36:07.880 --> 36:08.880 my son and I love him. 36:08.880 --> 36:09.880 Look, I know you don't believe me, but I am sorry for your loss. Truly, I am. 36:09.880 --> 36:10.880 Tom. 36:10.880 --> 36:11.880 It's over 40 years ago now since you disappeared in the Highlanders. Do you receive many letters 36:11.880 --> 36:12.880 from your family? 36:12.880 --> 36:13.880 I don't know. 36:13.880 --> 36:14.880 I don't know. 36:14.880 --> 36:15.880 I don't know. 36:15.880 --> 36:16.880 I don't know. 36:16.880 --> 36:17.880 I don't know. 36:17.880 --> 36:18.880 I don't know. 36:18.880 --> 36:19.880 I don't know. 36:19.880 --> 36:20.880 I don't know. 36:20.880 --> 36:21.880 I don't know. 36:21.880 --> 36:22.880 I don't know. 36:22.880 --> 36:23.880 I don't know. 36:23.880 --> 36:24.880 I don't know. 36:24.880 --> 36:25.880 I don't know. 36:25.880 --> 36:26.880 I don't know. 36:26.880 --> 36:33.880 I don't know. 36:33.880 --> 36:44.880 I don't know. 36:44.880 --> 36:45.880 I don't know. 36:45.880 --> 36:46.880 I don't know. 36:46.880 --> 36:53.880 ago, where just a regular number of letters, I've never counted them, but I don't know, 36:53.880 --> 37:01.280 20 to 30 a year perhaps it could be, something like that, with various requests. I mean, 37:01.280 --> 37:08.980 some years back I was sent the paper back, you know, the novelisation, and I was asked 37:08.980 --> 37:18.480 to review it for one fanzine, so I did that. I remember writing the review of that, I had 37:18.480 --> 37:24.880 to read it and try and get my memories back of the original, and I always remember, because 37:24.880 --> 37:32.760 my father, like the telesnaps, my father had taken some pictures off the screen, and I'm 37:32.760 --> 37:38.040 sorry I haven't got them, because I think I gave them away, but he'd shoot my name, 37:38.040 --> 37:42.000 my credit when it came up, and when I was in a scene, and he captured me in episode 37:42.000 --> 37:48.360 four of the Highlanders, coming outside the inn with my pipe, smoking my pipe, and I think 37:48.360 --> 37:54.240 I'm right, that if you check in the novel, if anybody wants to do that, Gerry Davis, 37:54.240 --> 37:57.360 if Gerry Davis wrote the novelisation, I don't know if he did, maybe somebody else did, but 37:57.360 --> 38:02.680 whoever wrote that novelisation suddenly decided to change, and Finch comes out of the inn 38:02.680 --> 38:08.560 and he lights a cigar. Do you receive many letters from any other productions? I get 38:08.560 --> 38:14.560 a lot of letters from Bad Girls, I think I get, I've never had so many as I get for Bad 38:14.560 --> 38:19.600 Girls, it has an enormous, well Doctor Who has an enormous cult following, but Doctor 38:19.600 --> 38:25.040 Who covers a vast time period, different Doctors, masses of different stories, Bad Girls only 38:25.040 --> 38:31.080 covers five, six series, I was only in half of one series and half the next, something 38:31.080 --> 38:38.160 like a series four and five, but, so what the actors who play, you know, the long-running 38:38.160 --> 38:44.720 characters get in the way of mail, I mean they must get thousands of letters. I can 38:44.720 --> 38:49.960 see why it's so popular, you know, it was, Bad Girls is so outrageous really, it's like 38:49.960 --> 38:57.320 a strip cartoon, every scene is like kapow, wham, you know, murder, blackmail, mayhem, 38:57.320 --> 39:06.320 drugs, you know, sex, you get the full works told in a very wham bam style and it's very 39:06.320 --> 39:14.000 watchable and more letters for that than anything else. I played the chaplain who had a nice 39:14.000 --> 39:18.320 gentle sort of love story with one of the prisoners, Babs, the prisoner who was in for 39:18.320 --> 39:25.000 begummy and they had a gentle romance which ended in marriage and we get, you know, I 39:25.000 --> 39:27.480 get a lot of requests for photos and memories. 39:27.480 --> 39:33.080 I was thinking, when we escape, why don't we jump straight on the Orient Express to 39:33.080 --> 39:34.080 Venice? 39:34.080 --> 39:35.080 Well that would be wonderful. 39:35.080 --> 39:36.080 We might make up for having to put back the wedding. 39:36.080 --> 39:37.080 Blame the Church of England and their stupid regulations. 39:37.080 --> 39:38.080 I don't want to lose my job darling, we're breaking all the rules. 39:38.080 --> 39:39.080 And I don't want to have to pretend we've only just met. Wouldn't it be rather we lived 39:39.080 --> 39:40.080 in sin and were honest about our relationship? It's total hypocrisy. 39:40.080 --> 39:41.080 You're absolutely right. 39:41.080 --> 40:00.080 Why should we wait? Why don't we get married there? Make it our honeymoon. 40:00.080 --> 40:01.080 In Venice? 40:01.080 --> 40:02.080 Henry. 40:02.080 --> 40:03.080 Just the two of us. 40:03.080 --> 40:04.080 Lock up in two minutes. 40:04.080 --> 40:11.600 As well as Doctor Who, you've appeared in a couple of other classic sci-fi serials. 40:11.600 --> 40:15.760 What's your memories of Doomwatch? You had a recurring role in Doomwatch. 40:15.760 --> 40:22.160 Doomwatch was a very interesting job. Looking back, perhaps even more interesting than we 40:22.160 --> 40:25.840 thought at the time. I can't remember the details of every story I was in. I think I 40:25.840 --> 40:31.960 did about six Doomwatches over the two or three series. But they were stories that, 40:31.960 --> 40:37.280 they'd be in the news, some of them, just as the transmission went out, then it would 40:37.280 --> 40:46.160 be a topical story. And Kit Pedler, this scientist writer who'd created Doomwatch, had this extraordinary 40:46.160 --> 40:51.360 prescience, foreknowledge, whatever, of the scientific crises of the time. The way we 40:51.360 --> 40:57.320 were heading for disaster, the way we were treating the climate, the earth, the chemicals, 40:57.320 --> 41:00.800 what the industries were doing and what they were getting away with, what government was 41:00.800 --> 41:08.520 covering up. So all those stories in the Doomwatch team were created to spot where there were 41:08.520 --> 41:15.360 cover-ups, where there was something going wrong, how was it going to be solved. I think 41:15.360 --> 41:21.440 it was very clever in that it was shot like a thriller, and yet it had strong, good scientific 41:21.440 --> 41:26.040 content in it, because you knew that it was co-created by a scientist and every story 41:26.040 --> 41:34.000 was possible. Breeding killer rats, chemical, biological, chemical chaos in a Yorkshire 41:34.000 --> 41:39.240 village, closing it down and emptying the place. A lighthouse, my first story, a lighthouse 41:39.240 --> 41:44.880 they discovered was emitting extraordinary rays that were causing people to go mad. My 41:44.880 --> 41:50.800 character nearly freaked out, I don't remember how he started. I played a guy called Duncan. 41:50.800 --> 41:55.520 I was always convinced he was the parliamentary private secretary to the minister, so he was 41:55.520 --> 42:01.680 an MP. I always said, he's an MP. And then a writer would say, no, he's a civil servant. 42:01.680 --> 42:06.120 So there was this battle going on all the time and I just said, no, no, he's the MP. 42:06.120 --> 42:10.320 He's not the political private secretary, he's the parliamentary private secretary. 42:10.320 --> 42:14.760 And John Barron played the minister and John Savdent also played him. It was John Barron 42:14.760 --> 42:25.720 that was the one I remember. It's three o'clock. One and a half minutes past, probably everyone 42:25.720 --> 42:28.120 gone by now. These flight schedules are extremely tight. I tell you, this whole damn thing has 42:28.120 --> 42:52.640 been blown out. 42:58.120 --> 43:07.960 The other classic sci-fi which leaps out at me is The Avengers. 43:07.960 --> 43:14.120 Aha, The Avengers. The old Avengers, the original. No, not the original, no. No, the original 43:14.120 --> 43:21.400 Avengers was Ian Hendry on a Blackman and Patrick Monee, wasn't it? The original. My 43:21.400 --> 43:29.500 first Avengers, I did two, my first Avengers was with Diana Rigg, the gorgeous Diana Rigg. 43:29.500 --> 43:35.880 And it was called, it was about a group of young fencers. I was a young fencer, that 43:35.880 --> 43:40.640 was my credit. Young fencer. I'm trying to remember what it was called. I know what my 43:40.640 --> 43:46.840 second Avengers was called. Anyway, I can't remember at the moment. But it involved a 43:46.840 --> 43:55.320 lot of being in fencing costume and Emma Peel was sort of sparring with us. I just remember 43:55.320 --> 44:00.320 that. I just remember being dressed as a fencer and doing fencing. But my second one, which 44:00.320 --> 44:08.600 I did a year later, was with Linda Thorson. What was her character in The Avengers called? 44:08.600 --> 44:18.000 Tara King. Tara King. And I was an army, sort of army special branch, army secret MI5 guy 44:18.000 --> 44:40.520 disguised as a monk. And it's called Getaway. 44:40.520 --> 45:09.080 Would I have gone into the TARDIS and would I have taken on a future role as a companion? 45:09.080 --> 45:15.800 Yes, I'm sure I would. I'm sure I would. I had, you see the previous year I'd been in 45:15.800 --> 45:23.600 the Newcomers, a soap. I'd done about eight episodes of the Newcomers which took a London 45:23.600 --> 45:29.680 family out into the Suffolk country. They moved out to live in a little new town. And 45:29.680 --> 45:36.120 that was the theme of the Newcomers. And it was the BBC's attempt at a long running soap. 45:36.120 --> 45:42.000 Which it did run, ran for some time. And my character was the sort of well bred son of 45:42.000 --> 45:49.440 the town where they went who was a bastard. And he seduced Judy Geason and all this. So 45:49.440 --> 45:53.240 it was a good character to play. But after about eight episodes I knew that I had the 45:53.240 --> 45:58.120 chance to go off and do theatre for a year. And I needed to do that, have a year in rep 45:58.120 --> 46:06.120 and really improve my skills. And so I said I'm off. And the BBC said but we've written 46:06.120 --> 46:11.120 the next 22 episodes with your character. This is what's going to happen to you. This 46:11.120 --> 46:15.840 and this and this. They said we've written the script. I said but you didn't check the 46:15.840 --> 46:19.240 manager, you didn't check with me, you didn't check I was free. You didn't even book me 46:19.240 --> 46:23.280 like that. You only booked me for eight episodes. And I had the BBC for the only time in my 46:23.280 --> 46:30.920 life, only time ever, begging, begging me. But I was a single guy who wanted to go and 46:30.920 --> 46:35.040 do rep. I didn't have commitments, big commitments. If I'd had wife and children it might have 46:35.040 --> 46:42.240 been different. I didn't have to pay big bills. I said I'm sorry I'm off. So I left the newcomers. 46:42.240 --> 46:48.040 And so to come back after a year's rep to do Doctor Who and if they'd then said, and 46:48.040 --> 46:50.440 it would only have been wouldn't it, it would have been three or four more and then it would 46:50.440 --> 46:56.960 have seen how it would have gone, I would certainly have said yes. Finch in the TARDIS, 46:56.960 --> 46:58.280 what a good idea that would have been. 46:58.280 --> 47:04.680 Are there any roles that you would have liked to have been offered over the years? 47:04.680 --> 47:10.040 Oh God yes, roles I'd like to have played. Well I said earlier about playing Macbeth, 47:10.040 --> 47:18.160 Richard II in rep. Now it would be crazy not to say that I'd love to play them at Stratford 47:18.160 --> 47:23.000 or the National. I haven't yet worked at those theatres. So rather than roles I'd want to 47:23.000 --> 47:29.960 play, I do, before I end my career, I want to work at the National or the RSC in Stratford 47:29.960 --> 47:38.920 or the Donmar or the Almeida, those theatres in London, I really would. I love doing theatre 47:38.920 --> 47:44.800 and I'll be upset if I don't work there. And I wouldn't then expect to be playing the leading 47:44.800 --> 47:52.280 parts as you get older necessarily. But just to work at those places. There are parts, 47:52.280 --> 47:58.560 I love Chekhov, the Russian playwright, and as you get older there are parts. There's 47:58.560 --> 48:03.440 a doctor in The Three Sisters, I'd love to play him in five years' time. There are old 48:03.440 --> 48:06.080 guys as I'm getting older that I want to play. 48:06.080 --> 48:07.400 What about The Globe? 48:07.400 --> 48:14.160 The Globe, yeah, it depends. I think The Globe's quite interesting. First of all it's amazing, 48:14.160 --> 48:17.840 I used to knock The Globe when it was being built. I used to think it would be theme park 48:17.840 --> 48:26.240 Britain, I thought it would be e-oldie, recreation, novie, Shakespeare, playhouse, you know, aha, 48:26.240 --> 48:32.280 come and see, to be or not to be. But it hasn't turned out like that, I think that's down 48:32.280 --> 48:36.640 to Mark Rylands, I think he had a big success. Interestingly Mark Rylands doesn't think Shakespeare 48:36.640 --> 48:41.640 wrote the plays. I find that extraordinary that he ran The Globe for... but he doesn't, 48:41.640 --> 48:48.080 he thinks somebody else wrote them. No, The Globe would be a challenge. The Globe is for 48:48.080 --> 48:53.800 big broad playing, what I've seen there, you've got to really be big in that space and hold 48:53.800 --> 49:01.160 that vast, groundling audience that stand there, that's hard, that'd be a real challenge. 49:01.160 --> 49:05.760 I've worked at Regent's Park twice, open air there, done three Shakespeare's there, and 49:05.760 --> 49:09.880 it's great to do but it's a challenge when you're in the open air, big spaces. 49:09.880 --> 49:13.760 Michael Edwin, thank you very much for your time. 49:13.760 --> 49:41.760 Thank you very much Dean.