laurence buckman really implied.ce to see him again, by the way, after a long time. >> yeah, i mean, this is the point, isn't it, that that, you know, bma perhaps know, the bma should perhaps have standing forjunior have been standing up forjunior doctors many ago doctors pay many, many years ago if they fallen far behind if they fallen so far behind since 2008. and now they're taking a sort of very militant line at a time when our national finances have never been worse . finances have never been worse. >> it's not just not just the pay, >> it's not just not just the pay, it's also the whole aspect of training and how they work in, um, when was it when in 2009, the working time director, the european working time directive was introduced and implemented. the bma's support. and that was a disaster because when i trained, when i was a junior doctor, we worked in firms and teams with consultants, registrars , senior consultants, registrars, senior registrars, houseman it was very supportive and we had good accommodatio