mike mccurry, you probably know mike mccurry. i often talk about mike mccurry as the most remarkable press secretary i ever worked with because mike got it. and mike came over from the state department where it was a press secretary, where it wasn't just spin all the time. there was a lot of substance. and somehow he tried to blend the two. he was the press secretary for bill clinton. there were high points and low points in that tenure. we'll talk about some of those and maybe even see one or two. and he's a former co-chair of the commission on presidential debates. another place where the camera has been so important and so influential. and martha kumar is a walking encyclopedia of the white house and brings such incredible insight to what she talks about. she's a professor emerita, towson university, our scholarly focus has been on the white house. she kind of hangs out there these days and can bring you not just trivia, but big picture stuff, too. but has written some important books that kind of give a perspective on all of