the home office forensic scientist, dr frank skuse, was called out and he tested their hands with a testwas only supposed to be a screening test, but on the basis of this test declared that several of them had been recently in touch with nitro—glycerine. and so, from that moment onwards, the police assumed that they got the right people. and that, i think, is what they would say, in their own minds, justified what did amount actually, yes, to torture. so you don't think that this was a bunch of police just picking up northern irish men and not really caring whether they were guilty? you believe that they did believe these six were the bombers? yes, i do. there's another case, the guildford and woolwich pub bombings, that took place in the same year. and in that case, i think they knew from a fairly early stage they'd got the wrong people. but in this case, the birmingham case, i think they believed they'd got the right people. and thejudge, also, was unduly impressed by the forensic evidence. in fact, there was a forensic scientist who gave evidence at the trial saying there were alterna