there is renew research by tamara leventhal on reducing parental stress. maybe longer-term outcomes might show success in child that comes in children becoming adults and we just don't have that yet but there are clearly allow the short f outcome benefits and bradley u. could have been in the room with us when you're talkinge about the kind of evidence standards that we might have considered that we didn't and here i point out for all of us who are researchers of some sort the challenges of doing disciplinary research. as a sociologist on the committee were evidence is not what you need to get into our top journals we might think that there are other kinds of evidence that could be strong evidence and we come to consensus and move through that consensus but i think a course it's always important to question what the we can and cannot do and the weaknesses of the weaknesses other than the limitations of it in those kinda of things and if you have not just strong ongoing body of coordinate -- corridors evidence how can we move on that while thinking about th