raking in 93 billion a year. bigger than the movie and businesses combined. more on that story and the day's other top stories on our website. it's all at aljazeera.com. it's not a bird or a plane, but a small unmanned vehicle. part toy, part tool, it seems drones are everywhere. as their applications grow, so do the regulations surrounding them. where can these things fly? where can't they? how high? how fast? business people and hobbyists are squaring off against regulators worried about terrorism and crime.

game of drones, it's tonight's "inside story": ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ welcome to "inside story." i am ray suarez. if you have heard about drones in news, it's likely the context involved the u.s. military raining sudden death from the sky. but drones have been evolving quickly. their capabilities have jumped ahead and their price points have come down. that's brought in hobbyists and people looking to use these machines for a wide range of business uses. and when a lot of people suddenly want to fill the skies with tiny aircraft, you might need a traffic cop. al jazerra america's erica pit ispitssee joins us from new york erica. >> reporter: by the end of 2015, up to punish million no one

military drones could be in use across the world for a million of reasons. raising questions about safety and technical standards . they are easy to ply. relatively inexpensive and their uses seem limitless, which is why commercial drones are thize. this help journalists. they help doctors without borders deliver medical aid. and help the world wildlife fund count endangers species. as the numbers rise so do close calls. the crashes have made headlines. like the white house security scare in january when a government employee lost control of his small recreational drone and crashed it on the south lawn. around that same time, a drone carrying drugs from mexico went down just south of the border. >> it's a new technology. it is very dynamic.

it changes almost on a day-to day-to-day basis. it makes it quite a challenge to keep one this industry. >> reporter: the drone industry is already serving many purposes in other parts of the world. a new zealand company, global aerial platforms is working with the coast guard to conduct search and rescue missions. >> at the moment we send our crews in to potentially harm's way regularly. if we can eliminate the risk of four crew members up in the sky doing a search by sending all u.a.v. up. that's actually gold in my book. >> reporter: early they are year china's biggest online retailer ran a trial of drone-based delivery to his hundreds of customers. but here in the u.s., strict regulations and logistical hurdles are keeping another other line giants amazon from getting its drone delivery program up and rung. the faa is country li considering a new policy.

some say the biggest problem with regulating drones is there are two very different communities. >> you have the f.a.a. that understands this is an aviation community. the drone community is primarily people who are not traditional aviators. and they do not see this as aviation. they do not understand that they are getting in to an aviation business. >> reporter: certainly drone advocates, like the small u.a.v. coalition disagree. they welcome some regulations as log as they can get their devices off the ground. >> i think we want to have an open dialogue with the faa. i don't think we are here to throw out mandates or say to them, you know, it's our way or the highway. we are trying to say to them. look at what is happening in other economies. look what is happening across the world. let us be open to progress. let us be open to technology let technology win if it's good technology. and we believe it is. as you can see behind me. >> reporter: in march of this year, the f.a.a. unveiled a new policy to speed up approval for commercial drone flights in the u.s. new rules would allow some

company to his use the unmanned aircraft during daylight hours and within the operator's visual line of sight. congress has until september to establish rules and standards, ray. >> erica pit pity in new york thanks. >> joining me you'll recognize him from erica's report and andrew beringer who has experience with drones and aerial photography. why is this happening now, michael? why so quickly have there been changes in the state of the art huh they should things along? >> it's a good question. for many it's not a new development. what has happened in terms of catapulting this in to an era that where earn wants to use it is that you have seen a number of companies that have suggested using these for purposes now that would replace existing technology.

or an additive. the technology really has come of age. when you look at technology, some of the stabilization within the existing drones what we are seeing is they have -- they are now beginning to apply this to parts of the economy such as film making and agriculture, and surveying and first responders that they believe now the technology is sophisticated enough it's beyond hobbyist use and recreational use, although that is captivating consumer interest as well. it's a real advance. of the technology. and the recent term. >> andrew, the long awaited box has arrived. you have signed for it. you open it up, you connect the battery ies can you just walk out your front door and start flying something around? >> it's funny you say that. the first time i opened up my drone there was no instructions on how to turn it oregon how to take off. from the beginning it was a learning experience that ended

unphone live in to the grass the first attempt. but -- >> if do you want do it right and play by the rules such as they exist today is it easy to to find out what the rules or? >> it is pretty easy i would have to say if you are dedicate ed in to following the rules and being one of the people that does that correctly because there are so many people out there that can go to barnes and nobles and in the check outline there will be a drone at the end like some people might find it interesting that, you know, to have a drone. >> we are looking at video that you shot with one of your drones. how high are you allowed to fly? >> they have just put it up to 500-foot ceiling. unfortunately, a lot of the regulations currently out listed by the f.a.a. are reacting to incidents that had already happened previously with other pilots.

usually not ending too well. if i remember correctly, the height ceiling limit was determined over someone who wanted to film the seattle needle and took it out of a hotel window to take off. which is not the smartest idea. >> michael, is that true? is a lot of the rule making reactive? when you see something that somebody can do with one of these machines, you say, ut-oh we gotta ban that in. >> absolutely not. i am going to have to disagree with my colleague here, which is this is not a reactive policy to what is happening. this is longstanding air space, which is air space has been the 400 to 500-foot and below. and there is typically been no risk to any kind of existing aviators in terms of commercial airlines. this has been an area that the f.a.a. has historically not regulated. but what is happening now because of the increased interest and because of the fact that there are a number of companies agreeing involved in this for commercial purposes because of the increased

interest by recreational user the f.a.a. is looking and saying do we need rules of road, do we need to look at it and determine what can be used? a the lot things coming out. f.a.a. various other organizations including at the state level are entire arbitrary and that's the problem. the technology is being used all over the world for so many different purposes, different altitudes including higher than 500 feet and u.s. is really the only one that has the draconian rules that it does. >> you say it's not reactive but it can't have helped the advancement of the use of drones of the united states to have one crashing in to the white house lawn and one buzzing lafayette park. >> i don't know that that's true. i think the answer to to what companies are doing in response to these incidents every technology invested in history has had instances where people have used it for purposes that it was not intended and obviously purposes that are rogue purposes. purposes that are detrimental. this is no different. technology can be abused. and in this case what happens is

the companies are now it's rate to this extent where they are baking in security measures such that you won't be able to fly near the white house. you won't be able to fly near monuments, you won't be able to fly near no-nigh zones and airports, the communities at this is responding by building technology in the devices such that it can't go to the white house, such that it didn't go to various places now the issue is you some people could change that technology, meaning they could, you know, rework it so that it could be abused. but this is true of all technology, anything, your cell phone could be used to purposes of surveilling people unbeknownst to them. but it's not intend today it that. we are not going to ban cell phones. the point is that some of the things that we have seen come out and we have seen, for example, in the exception process where people are trying to use them commerce shall shaly. they are saying that you can get a certificate of authorization for under 200 feet. it's arguably totally arbitrary. so the restrictions that are now

being put in place nobody can explain at least not in a way that is tied to the regulations and so i think what we'll see is a lib saying of liberal saying of this area. because again as we say as a coalition, technology always wins . and consumers are adopting it. >> you built this drone. >> yes. >> there has been much interest that the movie industry can use them, the news, yet here in washington you can limited where this thing can fly, aren't you? >> absolutely. in d.c. because of the incidents with the white house they en accounted a 10--mile no fly zone around the certainty of regular an. pretty much the entire city of d.c. is blocked off. >> ronald reagan international airport. >> yes. absolutely. >> when you say 10 miles from that air important you can't fly one near the mall. >> no. >> near the capital. executive offerses for the various federal departments and so on.

>> yeah. it's of limited use. >> absolutely. >> what could they be used for in news photography? >> in news they are fantastically being used recent any li in nepal to disvideos of the earthquakes and really being utilized in search and rescue departments. in the past they have used helicopters and not everybody has accessibility to helicopters these can be only given to a two-man team and easily extend the searching perimeters of whatever, you know, events may be. >> instead of a few million dollars this comes $1,100. >> absolutely. >> andrew, michael, great to talk to you both. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> mike is the he can executive director of the small u.a.v. coalition and andrew is a colleague of ours here at al jazerra. thank you both for your insight. as we have been discussing, this is a fast-evolving area in technology and law. how do you build a rule back so that aviation is protected?

people on the ground are protected, and drones aren't colliding in the sky and crash to go earth? a game of drones it's tonight's "inside story." >> shot dead and the government does nothing. >> they teach you how to eliminate people? >> ya. >> we've done it and that is why we are there. >> my life is in danger. >> anyone who talks about the islamic religion is killed. >> don't miss the exclusive al jazeera investigation. >> i can't allow you not to go into that because that is your job. >> only on al jazeera america.

>> businesses make the most of new opportunities, and the complex web of operations covering the machines that fly through the air, mesh with a new class of controlled aircraft. along with jay standard. a senior policy analyst at the american civil lebties union. what falls into the am bit of the faa?

anything that flies through the air? >>s this a good question, ray. the faa has the ability to regulate aircraft. and there was a question of where they plu and fell. and congress has said that unmanned aircraft systems are aircraft, and all of the regulations that apply to aircraft apply to unmanned aircraft. >> there have been remote control hobbyists for a long time. i remember them buzzing with the hornet sound going through the parks, and were they already regulated or was this an over sight? >> you're exactly right. model aircraft have been around here since the 1920s. and things started to change

when the faa became concerned about model aircraft, and they're all the same thing just a different name for the same thing. the faa in 2005 ban articulating a policy that model aircraft, used for recreational purposes, were not subject to the regulations, but unmanned aircraft for any other purposes were subject to the regulations. >> some of these are pretty big, and they can fly very high, very par and very fast. is there something intrinsically or extrinsically different about the craft if it's for commercial use, versus hobbyists trying things out? >> no, it's just tradition. the model aircraft community has been permed to operate without faa regulation for many

years, and there's a strong feeling in the community that they have operated safely. and the record is very safe for model aircraft regulations. the faa has continued the approach of not regulating model aircraft. but i think that one of the questions is, where does the line end with respect to what is really a model aircraft and what is an unmanned aircraft? the congress, in 2012, passed legislation that tried to clarify that. and i would argue that they limited what comes under the category of model aircraft. but the faa's position has consistently been, since the 2005 time period, that if a model aircraft is used for my purpose except recreational or hobby use, it falls under the faa's releases. >> if it it marches that the

area that has been unregulated historically, what are the concerns? what do you want to see go into law and. >> it's an area that's mostly privacy, and we think there should be basic ground rules so we can get all of benefits of drones, without worrying that there's going to be an eye in the sky tracking us at every moment from when we walk out of the door to get home at night. >> that's a very good idea. because consent, in the age of post-9-1-1 america, has seemingly gone out the window. you walk through the streets of washington d.c. to get to your front door, you're probably on tv much of the time you're doing that, without your knowledge, without consent, and without really much oversight into who sees those pictures and where you're going. >> it's true, there's a lot of surveillance out there, and there are a lot of cameras.

and everybody is carrying a video camera in their possible et now, but when you look at air surveillance, it's particularly entrucive, because it gives the ability to track everybody all the time. and when this was hashed out in the supreme court, the government versus jones, the government said that you won't have any privacy in public. and the justice said no, this kind of tracking is not something that has ever been possible before without a team of agents following somebody around, but now everybody can be tracked all the time. and that difference in quantity makes a difference in quality. >> i want to talk more about privacy. if someone in their town picks a private part of their yard to sunbathe in the nude or a condo grows a few marijuana plants outside, for personal use, can

they go without airborne snoops? cheap cameras mounted to flying drones. game of drones is tonight's "inside story."

>> something that you've never seen before. a bird's eye view from a drone. welcome back to "inside story," i'm ray suarez. jay stanley of the aclu is with us, and jael is, aviation law. we were talking about privacy before the break.

and let's say in water-short southern california, the use of pools has been banned, for instance, and then they send up a drone in some small incorporated area, looking for all of the unregulated and unregistered pools. fair game? you wouldn't necessarily write in to admit that you had filled up your swimming pool without permission. >> well, drones have such a huge potential for all surveillance, we think that there should be regulations, and some states have passed them, regulating how the government and the police use drones, requiring that they have a warrant. in other words, they can use a drone to collect information but if they have reason to believe that you have broken the law. if they have a swat raid on a house, they can use a drone to assist. and if they have evidence of a crime, but they

can't survey everybody, in case you did wrong. that's what we have been pushing in the states, and we have not been pushing commercial rights of drones. photography and we don't know yet what kind of privacy invasions you'll see in private sector drones, usage laws, and trespassing laws, and most states have peeping tom laws. >> ted allen, does the law inevitably end up playing catchup when you have a technology that's moving as quickly as this one? the drone we had on the set earlier had a top of the line hd camera mounted and it could see anything. >> yes, i think inevitably it does, and i don't know if you're relating to safety releases or regulations related to privacy. this is a very fast-moving

technology, and i think at least with the faa regulation, the unmanned aircraft community is encouraging the faa, when it does pass regulations, to make sure that the regulations are flexible and allow new technologies to be incorporated and not impeded by those releases. >> who ends up with the trump card when there's a conflict between government and business in an argument? >> i think that inevitably the government does, and certainly the faa is empowered to regulate aviation safety. and the power is very pervasive. the federal government has preempted that, and the local governments are not permitted to regulate aviation safety. that's arrived to the faa, but what the community is concerned about are regulations coming out of the faa that not only regulate to protect safety, but

go beyond that, and they're too restrictive. that would impede a very very important industry, a very important technology that's going to bring great benefits to all americans. >> trial and error, is that how we end up making rules in this area, jay? where there's overreach and pullback, and negotiation and overreach and pullback and negotiation? >> that's a good summary, i think that we'll see an evolution between practice and law. it's interesting to see, if they're falling out of the sky and falling on people's heads and injuring them and high profile terrorist incidents, and if they are used in areas that are offensive with privacy, we will see them not coming to fruition. it's certain that there will be accidents and mischief, and

businesses will be pushing for greater freedom, and others will be pushing for more safety. my organization doesn't care about -- doesn't have an opinion on the safety questions, but when it comes to the privacy thing, we don't want to see a radical change in the privacy of americans because of this technology. >> that's jay stanley from the american civil liberties union and he joins me, gentlemen, thank you for joining me on "inside story." i'll be back with a final word on the constant footrace between technology and the law. >> my name is imran garda the show is called third rail, when you watch this show you're gonna find us being un-afraid. the topics will fascinate you, intrigue you... >> they take this seriously... >> let me quote you...

>> there's a double standard... >>...could be a hypocrite >> you're also gonna get a show that's really fair bold... never predictable... >> the should be worried about heart disease, not terrorism... >> i wouldn't say that at all... >> you'll see a show that has an impact on the conventional wisdom that goes where nobody else goes... >> my name is imran garda i am the host of third rail and you can find it on al jazeera america

>> is a crime that's under reported... >> what do you think... >> we're making history right now... >> al jazeera america hostile to government release off point out that shared interest would act as regulation. people who want to keep the government out of their business will self police as a group to make sure that bad actors don't ruin it for everyone else. and you can see the appeal in that idea. after all, once you've gone to the expensive putting a drop in the air, you would like to

enjoy maximum advantage without people messing it up to you. he last month flew a drone, too small to be decked by radar toward the white house from lafayette square. the president wasn't there. he asked them to land the tiny aircraft. and he did, and them he was turned over to the u.s. park police for arrest. at the beginning of the year another drone, this one flown by a federal employee, crashed into the white house lawn. common sense is not as widely distributed as the ability to fly a drone, and you wonder why we can't have nice things and fly them wherever we want. thank you for joining us for "inside story", and see you next time, i'm ray suarez.

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