begin in a moment. first we're following breaking news tonight out of centennial, colorado where we have just learned the name of the gunman who opened fire at a high school there earlier today. arapahoe high school. the gunman who took his own life has been identified as 18-year-old carl h. pierson. he was a student at the school. three students, i understand, were wounded in the attack. that's what they initially thought. he then turned the gun on himself, we know, and also another girl is in critical condition. she was 15 years old. she's in the hospital. we're waiting to go hear an update on her. according to the sheriff, the shooter was also a student who was targeting a specific teacher who was not harmed. again, we do know the identity of that shooter, carl hall ver sohn pierson. he turned the gun on himself, committed suicide earlier today. that was at arapahoe high school. now rachel nichols "unguarded" begins right now.

tonight on "unguarded with rachel nichols." unfiltered. charles barkley sounds off on what's wrong with the nba and how he's going to fix it. >> you want to run a team? >> i want to run a team. i'm going to run a team. i know i'm going to be successful. >> unrestrained. >> jerry springer here on today's panel, rachel and i will talk heisman trophy controversies. is there a double standard in play? we'll cover all the bases. >> uninhibited. >> herschel walker. >> former winner herschel walker lets loose with some surprises about the heisman trophy. >> i was told you actually don't remember getting your heisman trophy in the ceremony. that is true? >> i don't. i don't remember that night of getting the heisman trophy. i really don't. welcome to "unguard." there is absolutely no one quite

like charles barkley. always opinionated, often hilarious, tnt's lead basketball analyst can get away with saying what no one else can. oh, and he's also a nba hall of famer. i caught up with chuck an auburn university alum just after his tigers earned their ticket to college football's national championship game. not surprisingly, he had something to say about that. and well, everything else. >> you gave the pre-game speech for that crazy iron ball where auburn upset alabama. >> davis is going to run it all the way back. auburn is going to win the football game. >> what did you say to them? that they'd pulled off the greatest college football victory of the year? >> this is probably the greatest season in auburn history, to go from not winning a game in the s.e.c. to being the number two team in the country. that's pretty remarkable. >> are you going to get a ring if they get the national title? >> you don't do that. you don't get that. you have to win your own ring or you don't get one. you don't get that luxury.

>> i trying to get you a ring in some way, chuck. >> no, no, i'm cool with that. it's interesting. people always ask me about the championship ring. >> right. >> and i never think like they think. basketball is what i do, it's not who i am. >> but you judge people by whether they won a ring. you judged lebron when he didn't have a ring yet. >> no, i didn't. i said he should have stayed in cleveland. just because he has those rings now he ain't no better. think about the notion just because i didn't win a sporting event my life is not successful. that's got to be the stupidest thing i ever heard. >> the at end of the year he has the option to opt out in miami. do you want him back in cleveland? >> i think it would be great for him to go back to cleveland. i don't think they're great fans in miami. i thought they were great fans in cleveland. >> people in miami already don't like you. you're going to dig a deeper hole. >> those are the same fans who were leaving when they thought they had lost to the spurs. >> what did you think about the game? >> sucked. >> they just don't act like they're superfans. >> the lakers aren't going to be any good. we don't have to talk about it. we don't have to talk about the

lakers at all. >> all right. what about the nba in general? what do you think about the level of basketball being played right now? >> i'm embarrassed. rachel, i'm a fan. i have to watch these games. and i know people at home are like oh, these old guys or hating on the nba. it's just bad basketball. i mean, it's bad basketball. eastern conference is ridiculous. and in major markets. >> you have miami, indiana. >> that's it, stop. >> there's no third. >> there's no third. like everybody knows it's bad basketball. you know what's interesting, michael wilson is a good friend of mine. he's been angry at me because i've been talking bad about the knicks. and these guys are so sensitive. but i'm going to do my job. i've lost friends over things i've said, but i'm going to do my job. my job is to the fans. >> who have you lost? what friends have you lost? >> i'd rather not get into that. >> have i finally asked charles barkley a question he won't answer? >> that's true. that's true. i'm going to do my job. i'll be very honest.

i'm going to be very fair. >> do you love him, though? you love him? >> i love him. >> you are tied to michael jordan forever. >> yes. >> very very close friend. what is it like being one of michael jordan's best friends? >> you know, michael's somebody i really like as a person. and for some reason we just hit it off. it's frustrating for me right now because we're not where we used to be. i think he took some things i said about the bobcats personally. and it's put a wedge between our friendship. and that's been disheartening for me to -- very disheartening. because one minute we're close, and now it's strained. >> what do you think it is about michael? how come he can't figure this out? it's not just that he's stumbled, he really stumbled in washington. he's really had trouble with the bobcats. >> might as well burn down the whole house you started the fire now. burn down the kitchen and the bedroom. well, michael has not surrounded himself with enough good people

who will disagree with him. that's the biggest problem he's had. you know, to be successful you have to surround yourself with people who you respect saying no, that's not a good pick. that's not a good draft pick. that's not a good trade. that's what you have to do. >> what about you? do you ever want to run a team? >> i'm going to run a team. that's my next goal. i want to run a team. i'm going to run a team. i know i'm going to be successful. >> let's scare the people at tnt. are when are you going to do this? >> i've got two years left on my deal. i've told him in two years i'm going to retire. i love my job. ernie, kenny, shaq, everybody we work with they're a blast. but i'm not sure how long you should do the same thing. >> anybody you've been talking to? >> i have talked to teams the last couple of years. but they lost me when i heard "pay cut." okay, i'll see you later.

>> you know charles is not taking a pay cut. all right. now a little later on the show we're going to talk to former heisman trophy winner herschel walker and get his views on this year's candidates. but right after the break, barkley reveals his biggest struggles. >> well, i think the two biggest issues i've ever had is probably gambling, and probably drinking. ♪ [ male announcer ] they are a glowing example of what it means to be the best. and at this special time of year, they shine even brighter. come to the winter event and get the mercedes-benz you've always wished for, now for an exceptional price. [ santa ] ho, ho, ho, ho! [ male announcer ] lease the 2014 e350 for $579 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer.

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bob will retire when he's 153, which would be fine if bob were a vampire. but he's not. ♪ he's an architect with two kids and a mortgage. luckily, he found someone who gave him a fresh perspective on his portfolio. and with some planning and effort, hopefully bob can retire at a more appropriate age. it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. welcome back to "unguarded" we've been talking to charles barkley about how he is never afraid to tell is like it is and how important he thinks it is to have friends who are honest right back to him. >> you said that your friends are always honest with you and you demand that they tell you when you're doing something dumb. >> yeah. >> what's the time that somebody pulled you aside and said you're doing something dumb that had a real impact on you?

>> well, i think the two biggest issues i've ever had is probably gambling and probably drinking. those are probably the two biggest things my friends watch me for. because i'm always going to drink because i like it. i'm always going to gamble because i like it. >> you once said that you estimated you've lost $10 million gambling over the course of your life. >> yeah. >> are you still doing it to that level? >> no. i've probably won $1 million five or six times in a night. >> that's got to be a big rush. >> it is. but i've lost a million probably 20 times. and i took a couple years off from gambling because i realized like the high of those five or six times i've won a million doesn't make up for the 25, 20 to 25 times i've lost a million. because you're so low. >> you know the principle of

gambling is that the house wins. you know that, right? >> i know that. not lenning that from the guy at the casino. doing this interview with steve wendt. he would say what kind of gamblers do you like? he says oh, easy, the jocks. >> this is a guy who runs a bunch of big casino and hotels in vegas. >> yeah. my head perked up. he says, because they always look at it competitively. they try to win all the time. and i said okay. and from that point on it clicked on. i said you know what? he's right. just go and have fun and try to win a little bit. don't try to beat the casino. that's when it clicked in for me. >> i see you out, you talk to everybody. >> nice to meet y'all. have a great day. what up? how you doing? >> people love talking to you, too, because you say what is on your mind. you say the things that people wish that they could say. >> we just want y'all to play better and stop whining, stop sitting in every press conference like somebody killed a family pet. it's annoying. >> you know, i love president

obama. but abe lincoln is my new favorite president. because if it wasn't for him we'd be calling ernie boss. >> you know, people take -- let me tell you something. >> people were upset because they thought you were making light of slavery. >> people need to get a life. i was a great basketball player. that's it. that's all i was. i'm not a teacher or fireman, i'm not of there saving zblooifs people shouldn't take it that serious? >> not at all. not in the least bit. >> you're friendly with president obama. >> yes. >> you're going to the white house this weekend. >> you know, this will be my second time there. let me tell you something. you have to be on your best behavior at the white house. that's one thing you don't mess around. >> now we know how to make that happen tox send you to the white house. >> send me to the white house. >> charles on good behavior. i'm going to believe that when i see it. let's switch gears and turn to college football and the heisman trophy will be awarded tomorrow night. the favorite of course florida state's jameis winston whose image has been tarnished by a rape allegation.

we want to stress the district attorney in this case found there was not enough evidence to charge winston. but the story does remain in the news. this morning the attorney of winston's accuser gave a press conference alleging gross police misconduct in this case. >> there is no reason, ladies and gentlemen, why the state would redact the injuries sustained by the victim, the name of the person who did the report and the drugs that were issued to her for pain. >> so to talk about this development and much more, i want to bring in my panelists starting with the one and only jerry springer, a lawyer, the former mayor of cincinnati, and of course, you know, the host of "the "jerry springer show"". i also want to welcome olympic track and field gold medallist, sanya richards-ross. we all expect winston to down and get that trophy. and people will be cheering for him. he will be holding up that piece of hardware. how are fans supposed to feel about this? >> people will believe what they believe. it still should have nothing to do with whether he's going to

win the heisman at that point. if he did what that woman is alleging then of course he should be punished. but let him be punished appropriately. up don't think you have to bring the heisman into it. the heisman is trivial kpab compared to a guy that would actually rape a woman. >> we are role models whether we like it or not. we have to be careful with our choices. as an elite athlete you have to make sacrifices. when i was in college at u.t. i didn't go to many parties. >> was that part of the reason why? >> i just never wanted to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. didn't want for something to happen and oh, sanya richards was there and this happened. >> but you're so fast you could run away before they ever got there. >> and i would have. but my mom and dad always instilled that in me, if you want to get to a certain place you have to be careful along the way not to have these kind of things tarnish that path. >> is this a case where with athletes in our hypermedia age these trials are going to become so scrutinized that a district attorney isn't even going to go to trial or charge an athlete unless he's 100%? >> i think in most cases, the

prosecutors are thinking, either we have a case or we don't. if they have a case they're not going to shy away from it. it could be a career builder for them. just one quick thing on this whole business about athletes being role models. your parents should be your role models. this is all screwed up. you got to teach your kids, you know what, these are your values. and because you love someone on the ball field doesn't mean that everything about their life is what you should be. >> i'm not saying we should be their only role model. but i do think we shouldn't shy away from that and we should want to set great examples. >> you have kids that come up and ask for your autographs. >> tons of kids. autographs, write us. >> i have kids come up all the time. and i tell them, don't you ever be on my show. >> yeah. >> all good points. thank you guys. and we will be right back. we have a lot more ahead as we continue our discussion. plus we're going to talk to one of the best ever to win the heisman, herschel walker, and get his thoughts on james jameis winston. >> the thing is there's a cloud.

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all right. welcome back to "unguarded" we're going to pick up right where we left off with my panel, talk show host jerry springer, olympic track gold medallist sanya richards-ross. there was big olympic news this week when the i.o.c. drafted a letter to athletes reminding them of rule 50. this says they cans disciplined, even expelled from the games for making any kind of political statement. particularly relevant as so many athletes are upset over the anti-gay laws that have been passed in russia recently. and that of course is where the winter games are going to be held this february. i want to show you martina navratilova at the united states addressing the i.o.c.'s instructions. >> my disappointment was with the i.o.c. where they in fact said sports and politics don't mix. >> sanya, you competed in three olympic games. under this rule. what do you think of this controversy right now?

>> as an athlete you've earned that platform. if you feel strongly about something, an issue whether it's anti-gay or your religion or whatever it is, as long as it's not disruptive and nonviolent i think you should have the right to speak up. >> how can you say that politics has nothing to do with the olympics when the very first thing you do on opening night is everyone marches in with their flag? you know what i love would love to see? all the american athletes go over there, and then all of them protest. >> not going to expel all of us? that theory? >> try having the olympics without america as you did in 1980 and nobody watched. and the i.o.c. went crazy. >> yeah. >> say someone came to you, one of your teammates and say it's important we make this stand. we all got to do it together. they can't expel all of us. and you have to decide am i going to risk losing my shot at the olympics. >> the truth is, people really have a hard time balancing like. like do i want to be sent home, i do want to miss out on what could be the greatest opportunity of my life in sport by risking something that i

believe in. unfortunately not very many people will do that. >> let's move on. earlier this week, bobby cox, tony la russa and joe torre were unanimously elected to the hall of fame. guys, we are talking about three manager whose all had high-profile steroid users on their teams. and those guys, guys like mark mcgwire and roger clemens had great numbers but being kept out of the hall of fame because people say those numbers were inflated by the p.e.d.'s. the managers wouldn't be going into the hall of fame if they hadn't wonder world series titles influenced by p.e.d.s. there is a double standard going on here? >> the player you can keep out of the hall of 235i78 because the player was 100% in charge of whether he took the p.e.d.s. that's clearly all on the player. the player would not have been the player had it not been for those drugs. but the manager, there are a lot of of reasons why their team won beyond just the one player. >> i'm going to have to disagree with you there, jerry. as an athlete i do think that

these things don't happen in isolation. i think a lot of times either the managers or the coaches are very privy to what's happening whether they turn a blind eye to it or whether they i don't want to say facilitate but potentially facilitate these things. i think there is a double standard. i think if there were harsher rules, sanctions and punishments placed on the coaches and managers there'd be less in the sport. >> is it possible a coach would know? >> here's what i'm saying in our sport in track and field we have coaches that have repeat athletes that are being tested positive. i have a problem with them still being able to coach in our sport or manage. i think once you've done that you shouldn't be allowed to be in the sport. >> you're a big baseball fan, right? >> yes. >> do you think tony la russa didn't know that mark mcgwire was doing something that wasn't cheating? >> i don't know why the st. louis cardinals then should be able to get any of their world championships. >> you are not answering my question. >> i think that's a step removed. in other words, the athlete absolutely. but when you start saying people

who knew, then i think you're probably reaching a line where you say, if you're keeping the manager out why not keep the teammates out? how can you give the world championship trophy to a team when the players knew that one of their compatriots that helped them win the world series was using those drugs? in other words, once you go beyond the person that's actually committing the crime and punishing them, then i think that's when you start the slippery slope. >> now that's kind of hard. because you're doing your thing and trying to do everything you can do right. maybe you do speak up but nothing happens. >> let's talk about joe torre. four of the world championships a-rod wasn't even on the team. >> maybe we aren't talking about joe torre. >> as long as we're not talking about the yankees i don't care. >> that's not right. come on. that's going to have to be it for tonight. thank you guys for coming. >> it's over? >> i know. but you'll come back? >> we have more to say. >> don't we know it, jerry. you guys do not go anywhere. you need to stay with us. on the eve of the heisman trophy

presentation we're going to have a very surprising conversation with former winner herschel walker. people don't have to think about where their electricity comes from. they flip the switch-- and the light comes on. it's our job to make sure that it does. using natural gas this power plant can produce enough energy for about 600,000 homes. generating electricity that's cleaner and reliable, with fewer emissions-- it matters. ♪

welcome back. i'm rachel nichols. tomorrow college football's most prestigious toe fit heisman is going to be awarded right here in new york city. back in 1982, that hardware went to herschel walker who beat out

john elway, dan moreno, no big deal. i spoke to her shell earlier asking him who he this should win this year. >> this is a tough year. it's very tough. winston at florida state, he has had a great great year. but people forget about a.j. mccarron. just because he lost to auburn, the kid has still had a great year. the kid has done a lot of great things. and it is going to be a very very tough race. i think everybody's already giving it to jameis. but i think that's very hard. because my heart still goes out to the young lady. and i know you're not guilty and all that stuff. but the thing is there's a cloud. and for me, that means a great deal. if there's a cloud that means a great deal to me. because the heisman is more than just winning a trophy for football. >> we have so many former players now who are talking about the injuries they receive in football and the difficulties they've had. concussions, joining the

concussion lawsuit. what do you make of that? because you're at a very different track post football. >> well, you know what's so strange about it is i've been very fortunate. i wrote a book called "my life social identity disorder" which so many people made a joke about it. so many people laughed at it. and that's one thing that i did, i went to get that problem taken care of. because of that i've been very fortunate now to work with our wounded warriors in our military. we treat about 4 to 600 military servicemen and women all over the world. and i understand what's going on. but i will say this. i think we're throwing concussion as the blame for everything. but that's not so. and a lot of nfl retired players get upset with me, a lot of players getting upset with me. but i'm saying this is something i know, i know this for a fact that concussion is not to blame for everything. >> i was told that because of your disorder you actually don't remember getting your heisman trophy and the ceremony. is that true? >> i don't. i don't remember that night

getting the heisman trophy. and i said it the other day at a base. i was at a base. i said people laugh and they think that's weird i don't remember. >> have you watched video of it at least? do you get that moment at least from seeing it? >> you're going to be shocked. i've never watched a video of it. i think there's so much more that i got to do and so much that i'm doing that i don't want to look back right now and think that i've done something great. >> well, her shell, whenever you're ready to show the video to your grandkids we are going to have it ready and waiting for you. that's all for us tonight. you can follow me on twitter, like us on facebook or visit us on the web at cnn.com/unguarded. on the web at cnn.com/unguarded. good night. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com