i'll se i'll see you next week. good morning, i'm brian stelter and welcome to a special edition of "reliable sources." we are live in st. louis, missouri, we've brought the pep band out this morning with us playing the election night in america theme music. tonight it is debate night in america theme music. this is the site of the pivotal presidential debate just a few hours away and right now the stakes really couldn't be higher. right now the donald trump and the gop are in a state of crisis. and the expectations for the debate have changed dramatically as a result. if the ready-made narrative was about a comeback performance for trump after most people agreed he lost the first debate, well now it is about survival. by now you've heard the tape so

let me take you behind the scenes about what is happening as we speak. just a short walk away from here on the campus. this is a town hall debate with questions from real voters so comoderators anderson cooper and martha raddatz received the questions from those participating tonight. essentially the people on stage, the voters who have been selected by gallop submitted their questions ahead of time and now they are sorting through the questions to decide who to call on and in what order. but one thing is already certain. according to an abc source, the moderators will begin with a set of questions about the vulgar tape and the fallout from it. this is obvious and important to report. why? because it is not donald trump who gets the first question. according to a coin toss by the commission on presidential debates, hillary clinton will ask the -- will be asked the first question and she'll have the first chance to speak at 9:00 p.m. eastern time tonight. to discuss all of this and the

most recent developments in this campaign and we've assembled of cnn political commentators to break down the debate. from the right, matt lewis and columnist and trump supporter caylee macanneny and hillary rosen and former executive director of the congressional black caucus, angela rye. thank you for being here this morning. >> thank you. >> let me start, caylee, with donald trump tweet storm. in the past hour he has posted half a dozen messages, messages of support from his fans and he's also calling out people he said are hypocrites, establishment types that are running away from him. do you think it is wise for him not to be in apology mode but for him to be on the offense and supporting himself and criticizing his opponents. >> i think it is important that he be in apology mode tonight. he has apologized twice. that is good as a supporter, but it is imperative that he does what mike pence does and he shows his heart to the american people. he expressed contrition and says

i'm a different person today and explains that and moves to the issues. because focus group after focus group said that voters care about the issues and they care about -- and they don't want the open borders and the wikileaks transcripts released, they want trump's vision of change. he wins on the issues. hillary clinton is running an issue-free campaign because that is when she loses. >> there are many pages of issues and policy documents and behind us we have trump supporters. so matt, let me ask you, there is a reaction to the vulgar tape on friday and do you believe trump voters are still with him? >> absolutely. >> isn't that a divide between the media and between the voters. >> there is a clearly dichotomy between the trump voters and the media. there is no doubt about that. but look, i think the problem for donald trump is that he's got this 40% of the voters who i think are with him through thick or thin. he's losing this election.

to win he needs to add voters. how does he add voters. the most likely are republican college-educated women who are not coming to trump at the same rate they come to john mccain and mitt romney. therefore, i think this sort of stunts his ability to get those voters. so it is a legitimate issue. i would caution the media, though. because the trump strategy, i think, is to turn out larger numbers of working-class white men. there is about 24 million noncollege educated white men who didn't vote for romney and they were eligible and they didn't and if he turns them out the voting is flaweds and the media analysis is also flawed. >> let's talk about the next ten hours and hillary reporting that cooper and raddatz are meeting and going over the questions and this is happening in a bubble and we don't know much more of what to expect. do you think that it matters that clinton will be asked the

first question and will have the opportunity to respond to this first tape. >> hillary clinton will set the tone for herself and for the rest of the evening and i think she's going to come out of the box, yes, she will reference the crassness of donald trump's words and how offended women of america are. but i know that she is also going to try and pivot to what it matters to the american people. what matters to voters. and she's going to try and tie those two things together, how women will care about this election and the stakes that women have. >> she'll try to set the doan, but isn't trump already setting the tone this morning. we have an article about juanita broad drick. >> and we have everyone talking about he is contrite and how he feels terrible about this and what we have from him today is defiance, aggression and yelling about hypocrisy, bringing up 25-year-old instances when he

said that his 10-year-old instances shouldn't be raised so i don't think we should expect contrition from donald trump tonight but hillary clinton will make sure that contrition is not the standard. contrition about this last tape is not going to be the standard by which he should be judged. >> it sounds like this to me we want this to be about issues. we would like to hear more about the policies tonight and yet, angela, we know that is not what will happen. this seems this needs to have a parental advisory notice on it. we've had conversations on television in the last two days that i'm depressed about. why? because children are in the room. and they are watching the election. the one word my parents tried to shield me from was the p-word and now a generation that have experienced that word and been exposed to the crass in the last few days. >> i would say character was an issue and when bush ran he ran

talking about no child left behind and then 9/11 happened. so there is a few things that you could judge a potential president by. >> but shouldn't elections be rated m. for mature. >> let me jump in because this is the first time to let me speak in this segment. this is an election where the kids have to watch and part of that, brian, is because they are the commander-in-chief of the entire country, including kids. and i would say to you, it is not about what happened in the last two days. it is about what has been said and displayed since he started running for president last june. this is about what this man has said the duration of his professional career. we had all of these examples before. we had this potential rape case of this 13-year-old girl that is now there is a hearing in december. we had all of this. and yet and still they are continuing to try to blame the victim in hillary clinton for what her husband's -- this is not about hillary, this is about donald trump having to face the

music for everything he has said and done throughout his entire career in this election. >> and there is now behind us chanting -- what about bill. and that is what they want the conversation to be. breitbart.com published an interview with broad drick which he has alleged rape by bill clinton in the past. and this is graphic and detailed published by breitbart. and could they be coordinating now that they are campaigning. i wonder whether these issues will be brought up on stage tonight. >> they are relative to hillary clinton's involvement, putting private investigators on women and proclaiming herself as a warrior. it is hypocritical and it is relevant. that being said. voters do not care about sexual back and forth between two candidates. voters want to know how are going to better the economy when we have millions of people in poverty. isis is overrunning the middle

east and thanks to the obama-clinton administration. voters want to know how you will affect thur lives and i don't think a back and forth on stage needs to happen. >> and do you feel that the media outlets are trying to take trump down by covering this tape so extensively. >> i think it deserves coverage but what also deserved coverage is wikileaks. you had hillary clinton say i have a public and a private position. well tell us what your private positions are. that is relevant. why is this not coming over. >> has that been overshadowed because of the trump tape? >> trump has been his own worst enemy. he is stepping on story lines. i think the media helped give us donald trump, thanks a lot, guys, and i guess i'm one of those and the media is taking him down. this is the same media that attacked mitt romney, a zents man, for binders full of women, he was trying to hire women. and that was a huge scandal and

he was cast as a mass oth industry and those defending him are because they've seen year after year the mainstream media tear down good, decent candidates and demonize them and call them racist and they are fed up and they will -- and media means conservator media. i wonder if some trump supporters are living in an alternate reality with regard to the clintons and reading things on breitbart and things way down in the gutter and that is affecting how people are perceiving this election. and clinton is not koocorrobora or been challenged over the years. >> and the desense tisation have made people feel less legitimate for trump supporters but you have a person with an actual on tape multiple times saying

crass and racist and sexist things in a way we have not had in the past, where we've had accusations, where we've had right-wing theories or a left wing theory. but here you really have a man who has lived what he is being presented as and i think that that is a big difference. so i do think hillary clinton is going to raise character tonight as somebody who, it is not just about where -- what you've done and what you've said, it is about how you make people feel. and what we want is a president who is going to make people feel better about who they are. >> and with trump as the nominee, as decent of a man he is and how he speaks, if marco rubio were the nominee, i think the media and the left would be coming after trying to destroy them and calling them racist. it is like the boy who cried wolf. donald trump is horrible. he is different than other republicans. but i think that the media and the reason that you are seeing conservatives stick with trump through thick and thin is because of the media bias.

>> that is an important point. >> and the thing i would have to say, this is not like donald trump appeared out of nowhere. this is the making of the republican party. >> and it did come out of nowhere and why did it come out now. do you think it was appropriate for cnn to completely play the tape and some decided to sensor it and some at the new york times decided to use all of the words and washington post bleeped some of the words, do you think it was the right choice to air the entire thing. >> it made me cringe but you have a person running to be the commander-in-chief, day-to-day, whether with his friends or on air that makes cringe worthy commenties every day. >> and it is appropriate to repeatedly air this tape as like this? >> this is where the american people are forgiving. if he does not own this right away and he owned it and

apologized for it and if he does it again on the debate stage, the american people did, and bill clinton did some horrific actions in the oval office, not words but actions, despite his repeated denial and his definition but the american people forgive but you have to talk about actions. we didn't see it happen but he described things that he did. grabbing people by the vagina is an action and he's telling someone that is what he did. >> there are no actions -- >> it is a whole -- >> there are no actions. >> we're hearing a lot from people of color over the last couple of days was it acceptable to the gop when trump was racist against mexicans? was it acceptable to the gop when he doesn't believe the central park five. all of a sudden now because it is white women that he is talking about, that now we have to have him -- call on him to step down. what i think you are going to find from hillary clinton is this is a broad swath of

unacceptable behavior. this is the president of the united states whose picture goes on the wall of every elementary school in america to say this is the person that you should admire, this is our president. and is that acceptable? >> and we should vote for the person who is jeopardizing america's national security and lied about it and still not accepted responsibility. >> you talk about e-mails, nobody has apologized more. [ overlapping speakers ] >> apologies are accepting responsibility. >> you have no credibility on this point, kate. >> they have apologized. >> and it is about the tape and the vulgar language and that is new tonight and that is why the debate will start with the questions and i think given that we are talking about words or actions, what has trump done or not done, that is why trump needs to be asked the questions. the idea of asked about whether he is a predator, i don't think we would be here in this election 16 months ago. and stick around, back later in

the hour and standing by are the debate commission co-chairs and the people who run the debate tonight. is there any chance trump won't show up and what about the debate a week and a half from now. they join me right after the break. today we're going to talk about the all-new 2016 chevy cruze, but you're only going to answer me in emojis. so, this cruze has built-in 4g lte wifi® with 24 gigs of data. wow. message sent sfx. strong! it also comes with 24 months of siriusxm satellite radio. message sent sfx. like, word, chevy. that's the way to go. get this cruze with 2 years of siriusxm radio. and now get 0% financing for 72 months ... or find your tag and get 20% of msrp cash back on select remaining 2016 vehicles in stock. ♪

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♪ the university pep band joining us here in st. louis, missouri, for tonight's presidential debate. the second of three of them. while cnn anderson cooper and abc martha raddatz are the moderations, but the commission on the presidential debates which has run all of the events since 1988 and these two men are the co-chair. frank farn cough and mike mcmurray, and gentlemen thank you both for being here. >> great to be with you. >> tell me, frank, first of all, as a former chairman of the rnc, do you have a personal view about whether donald trump

should step aside as other republican leaders have called for in the last day. >> no, i don't. when we started the debate commission back in 1988 and paul kirk and i agreed and mike and i sense, we don't wear rnc or dnc hats, and we have no position and we are going to put on the debate tonight. >> and it is hard to deal with all of that with the festive news of the day. >> i wonder if there is a chance trump will not be at the third debate. there is talk about mike pence taking over. trump said he is in this no matter what. do you know of the possibility. >> we have no idea. we like to say we take the campaign as it comes to us. whatever happens. and we have no idea -- from what we understand, we'll have three debates and one vice presidential debate and we prepared for that and if something changes, we'll handle that when it comes. >> brian, we have very clear criteria that we've had for over a year now of who gets invited

to the debates and we've not extended invitations for the third debate yet. we'll do that several days before the october 19th debate. >> and the significance of that is if gary johnson were to get over 15%, he would be invited. so far he could not reach that threshold. >> any candidate who is otherwise qualified, according to our criteria and therefore jill stein from the green party and gary johnson from the libertarian party and obviously trump and clinton, if they reach that 15% thresholder extended an invitation. >> and take us behind the scenes about how debate moderators are chosen. and this year there are five and there are comoderators and how is that. >> and we've done so many from the standpoint of the production is fairly easy. i mean, we have a great crew and they do a great job. but picking the moderators is probably the most difficult thing we do. we want to make sure we have diversity among the moderators.

we try to find people by looking at their work product on television. we primarily have gone with electronic media, people used to working with this thing in their ear, harder than it looks. and people who have not taken sides and tried to be down the middle and not be bias one way or another. and it is a difficult thing. and we spend time with the staff trying to come up with the people. >> this is the first year a fox news moderator is part of the mix, chris wallace in the final debate. did donald trump insist on a fox moderator. >> no. and we don't listen to the candidates when we choose. we base it on who we think will do the best job. and we want the moderators to get the candidates to engage each other and talk about the issues important to the american people. it is not about the moderators or what they think, it is about what the candidates want to talk about as they think about the future of our country and as they present some vision about where they are going to go and

you want moderators that will evoke that kind of question. and chris wallace will be on -- with cnn, he's demonstrated he is that kind of moderator. >> and there is a vigorous debate about fact checking. lester holt did do that. do you think that is appropriate with moderators. >> we've spent time with them and we have a number of people that were moderators in the past who spent time with them. we view, as mike said, that the moderators is a facilitator and shouldn't be doing the fact checking. what ought to happen, if one candidate says something inconsistent with what said previously, it is up to the other candidate to correct them. if it is a serious matter. >> are you saying lester holt was wrong? >> no. i think he did a great job. on one instance, he may have

said something wrong but i think he did a great job. >> and brian, i don't think he was stepped in very often on that. i think there were times when he tried to move the debate along to the next subject and that is the role the moderator plays to introduce the next subject and another thing we've done here is rather than having a highly structured format in these debates we've opened it up so there are larger chunks of time so the candidates can talk to each other and i hope they could talk to each other without constantly interrupting each other but we are structuring this so there is more of a dialogue between the candidates rather than back and forth with the moderator. >> should there be buzzers or ways to cut off mikes. tim kaine was criticized for interrupting too much. >> we have discussed that. but what we are trying to do is have a debate. we want the candidates to have interaction. and if you cut off mikes, you don't know when is the right time to do is. so we decided to let them go at it. the moderator has to do the best

job they could to slow it down so we could hear each other and we want that interaction. >> at the end of the day you learn something about the character of the person if they are behaving a certain way on the stage and that is part of the process of educating the public about who the folks are in the first place. >> should the debates be held sooner given that early voting is more prominent. >> we moved this one up. we had one in september. and we took advantage of that. and realized that the conventions are earlier than they usually were. but something like 40% of the people have voted years ago by election day. but we tried to move it up closer and we'll look at it again between this and the next round. >> and i'm coming up against a hard break. do you believe they will shake hands today? hoping for a cordial conversation. >> it is hard to imagine they won't or treat each other with some measure of respect. but it is likely going to get hot as well. >> it feels like we are in the gutter and --

>> well that is -- that is the disspiriting thing, is when we move away from issues that we know the american people care about, they want to talk about immigration, the economy, national security, terrorism, the issues that i think define what we want to think about as we go to the next president and what they will do for the country. >> mike and frank, thank you both for sharing time with us this morning. and best of luck here tonight. and up next, the back story, the story you haven't heard about donald trump and ""the apprentice"" that now relates to the tape aired on friday. we'll be right back from washington university in st. louis. we asked people to write down the things they love to do most on these balloons. travel with my daughter. roller derby. ♪ now give up half of 'em. do i have to? this is a tough financial choice we could face when we retire. but, if we start saving even just 1% more

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this is reliable sources. and if you define news as what is new, then donald trump's biggest views of women are not views. remember his offensive comments were part of the very first question at the very first primary debate of the year. >> you call women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals. your twitter account -- >> only rosie o'donnell. >> no, it wasn't. >> your twitter account has several disparaging comments about women's looks. you once told a contestant on "the apprentice" it would be a pretty picture to see her on her knees. >> that is 14 months ago. and the difference now there is a surprise tape letting people hear trump in his own words. in this era of profound media distrust, hearing and seeing is persuasive. raw material is persuasive. so that is the difference this time.

and the news is not that trump is offending women, it is that he is describing predatory behavior, not just actions but words. so how was the tape discovered by access hollywood. it starts with an associated press story from last mond describing his lewd and sexist behavior on the set of "the apprentice." let me it will you the story from the very beginning. joining me to help me report it is the reporter who wrote it larns gill blrt. and you interviewed 20 people who worked on "the apprentice" in 2000s and what they did they tell about trump's behavior on the set of "the apprentice." >> one of the striking things of my reporting was hearing from nearly two dozen former cast and crew on "the apprentice" who described situations on set in which donald trump used sexist language, that they felt was really uncomfortable, including

talking openly about which female contestants he wanted to have sex with. part of this was during the time in which he was married to his wife melania. also describing a camera operator who he took a fancy to, talking about her body as well as ranking female contestants by the size of her breasts. >> your story led access hollywood to dig up the tape from 2005, the famous tape of trump talking with billy bush. it was not broadcast by nbc before it was leaked to the washington post and then seen by the whole world. does it frustrate you didn't have audio and video on the set of "the apprentice" and thus your story didn't have more of an impact earlier in the week. >> i would say it is gratifying to see that the strength of a.p. reporting really prompted others in the field to take action. of course, access hollywood said

that reading my story spurred them to go back to their own archives and take a look at what unedited footage they might have that would shed some new light on the candidates. so i think that has been quite gratifying. >> and what sense do you have about whether "the apprentice" tapes are acceptable. mark brunette has the tapes and presumably say lot of raw audio and video of trump taping the show over the years and do you have a sense of whether that is accessible and whether any damaging videos might be coming out from there. >> we've been very aggressive in seeking access to that footage and audio. unfortunately, executive producer mark brunet's office doesn't return phone calls and when we've contacted nbc, they've either said variously that they don't have the footage or they don't foe if they have the footage and even if they did they would be legally prohibited from releasing it. so we are seeking anyone who has

additional material to come forward and contact either me, at g burk at ap.org or ap generally at ap investigate.org. >> and i'll plug your story. it is on a.p. and it is high reading. thank you so much for being here. >> thank you. >> that is how reporting works. trying to solicit information from sources. up next, more on the trump tape. we'll pick it up from there, from the associated press story and how nbc find it and why "the washington post" scooped nbc. all of the details just now coming in, right after the break. what if there was a paint...

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welcome back to reliable sources live from st. louis. st. louis, missouri, and washington university in st. louis where the debate will take place, the debate we've all been waiting for he is less than ten hours from now. think about where we are and why this trump tape is -- this vulgar tape is now the top story. think about how it happened. when talking to billy bush, he was the star of the apprentice and taping for access hollywood and talking with bush getting ready to tape a cameo and this is all about nbc. and after that associated press story came out on monday before trump's time behind the scenes

of "the apprentice" and access hollywood went looking in the archives from that billy bush and donald trump tape. they found it and prepared to cover it and broadcast it and they got nbc news involved as well. both the news division and the entertainment side of the house were ready to report on this tape. but not until at least next week. according to sources at nbc, there were legal issues to deal with, making sure the corporate lawyers were all on board. this was going to broadcast, they swear it was going to, but then it got leaked to the washington post. "the washington post" received a copy of the tape on friday and within five hours published a story that you've now seen on loop all across television. so nbc did not break its own news and yet that news is now a huge part of the debate tonight. let's talk about it and the historical context of what is unfolding in this campaign with three experts, including carol simpson who was a moderator of a debate town hall. also douglas brinkley, cnn presidential historian and history professor at rice

university and jeff green field with cnn and other networks over the years. i appreciate you all being here this morning to bring us context. jeff, do you believe there is a problem for nbc, that billy bush co-host of the today show has been caught on this tape joking around with trump about women genitalia, about how hot the women are and in explicit ways, is it a problem for nbc that billy bush works for the "today" show and that they didn't broadcast their own tape? >> you know, once you get a bunch of corporate lawyers in a room, speedy action is the left thing you would expect. and i don't really have a strong feeling about whether nbc should have gone ahead with it. for me, the much bigger issue is why this tape produces the reaction it did when a year's worth of other evidence didn't. the question that i would have asked all of these republicans now, backing away from trump, is what didn't you know and when

didn't you know it. so to be candid with you, brian, i don't find the internal debate within a corporation about whether they could release a tape or what the legal problems are to be at the center of the concern about this. to me, it is -- it tells us something very significant about the media and also, by the way, about the new media that a printout like "the washington post" could show a video that the video purveyors didn't show. there is a certain irony there. that may not be the answer to your question. >> good point. >> but we want to keep the focus on the extraordinary gap between what this tape produces among the republican elites and office holders and years worth of what other evidence didn't. >> carol, as someone who has moderated a town hall-style debate in the past, what do you do to challenge clinton and trump to address the issue knowing that clinton will speak first and getting the first question. how do you bring this topic up and address it and not let it

evolve into something even more course than we've already heard? >> well, these are going to be the people's questions that are there. the undecided voters. i don't know why they are undecided after all of this time. but it is going to be their questions. and this is the first time ever people talking about trump and not the red sox. so everybody has heard this and everybody is talking about it. and i think it is going to be the first question. i think the moderators are able to choose which person asks the first question. but i bet that first question is going to be about the tape. >> when it comes up, when trump responds, would you be concerned as a moderator about having to fact check either of the candidates? do you believe cooper and raddatz should be pro-active in that way? >> i would be. and probably mr. farnkopf and

murphy would not be happy with me as a moderator. but i feel if you are a journalist and you know the truth of something, and you hear one of the candidates state an untruth, i think it is an obligation of the moderator, who is representing the people, to correct that. so, yeah, i think they should fact check. >> doug brinkley here with me at the debate site in st. louis. thinking about the historical context for what we're about to see, has there been a candidate who has come into a debate as wounded as trump is coming in tonight? >> no. and he's decimated right now. and i'm not sure what he could do. one of the problems is he talks about bill clinton, every time he's in a jam. he is not running against bill clinton and by tieing the two together causes some problems and also if he's going after the clinton's sex cap aids and naming all of the women, then do

it and do it hard and take ads out like hillary clinton is doing. this is a war right now and donald trump of is two minds all of the time. and he's just getting pummelled -- >> well trump supporters say the war is happening by the press and the media is engaging in this. do you believe it is the media's fault, so to speak. how do you apportion responsibility here. >> media falls -- nbc should have had that tape running in the spring when somebody in the republican party could have picked somebody else. why, as a major news organization, hoarding a tape like that, you would think once trump tracks, nbc would look at whatever they have. they are putting up resources and setting up camps like we are around the country. >> and the claim is they didn't know about it. why they didn't look is another question. jeff greenfield, what are you looking for tonight? the media expectations game here is crucial? >> i don't mean to be superficial, the first thing i'm looking for is the handshake. whether it happens. >> yes, me too.

>> yeah, because in 1990, ann richards won the governorship because her opponent refused to shake hands at a debate. on the other hand what we saw at the first debate, the smiles and the pat on the back donald trump gave clinton, i think -- i actually think, having been in rooms of debate prep, they are devoting seriesus attention to just how formal that handshake could be and how quickly she could disengage. and i know it sounds trivial but that first impression visual is very significant. and the second thing that i'm really, as a former debate preparer, really puzzled about is what does hillary clinton say, if donald trump goes full bore after the accusations of bill clinton's predatory behavior. not affairs, but the paula jones and juanita broad drick and others. what does she say and we need an

answer. >> and it is putting fact into fiction in context. i'm out of time, carol, you've been in the room and as a moderator, what advice do you have for end cooper and martha raddatz right now? >> um, they have to see that the people's questions are answered. and you know how trump has the tendency to deflect and to change the subject and so on. and i think they have to get back to them and say, look, you've been asked by mr. so and so about the tape, what -- we'd like you to answer his question. so i think they have to be very careful to see that they are getting their questions answered. >> the pressure is on both men and both women on the stage. carol, jeff, doug, thank you all for being here this morning. and coming up after a quick break. a look at the expectations and insight from liberals and conservatives about how the

debate will be portrayed. i'll be right back in just a moment. limited data?f getting gouged fr introducing t-mobile one. one price, all unlimited for everyone. get 4 lines for $35 per month each with unlimited 4g lte data. switch today.

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♪ the band is back and so are we. welcome back to "reliable sources." i want to bring back our panel for expectations about tonight. it's an expectation-setting game for tonight. hilary, what do you believe -- how should the bar be set? before the first debate, there was a bar set for each of the candidates. what are you looking at for tonight? >> the clinton campaign, rightly so, was unhappy that mike pence

got so many big points for style when, the next day, his substance was so badly fact checked that he had misspoken so many times. you're going to see the campaign this afternoon and evening really talking about you've got to score both of these things. it isn't just about who was warm and fuzzy, although hillary clinton has a lot of experience with town halls, but you're going to see the campaign really be aggressive in saying, no, no, no, donald trump has to be right on substance for him to succeed. >> on the trump side, i would think, kayleigh, that there's going to be desire to declare trump the winner no matter what just because he got to the stage tonight. >> the expectations could not be higher tonight because he has to apologize and show his heart and do what mike pence did, which is make tim kaine look small. in response to legitimate questions about syrian refugees

brought up taxes. that looks petty. >> matt, your expectations? >> two interesting narratives could come out of tonight. donald trump is done. he had a horrible first debate and then a huge scandal. you could have a narrative that says it's over. there's going to be a triage, republicans should save the senate but write off trump. the other narrative is the comeback story. i think the media is rooting for the comeback story. >> angela rye, do you agree? >> i think that some of us in the media are eager to finally hear the truth and for the truth to set us free and by that i mean free from trump. there was not just one scandal. there were three. there was alicia machado and then this one and then the central park issue.

this coverage continues all day and night long. debate night america, nine hours away. rudy giuliani and tim kaine are on "state of the union" coming up here after a quick break. ♪ using 60,000 points from my chase ink card i bought all the framework... wire... and plants needed to give my shop... a face... no one will forget. see what the power of points can do for your business. learn more at chase.com/ink

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dump trump? top republicans calling on trump to drop out. >> step down. allow someone else to carry the banner. >> could mike pence take his place at the top of the ticket? this just hours before trump's second showdown with hillary clinton. we are live from the debate site where the heat is on. how will donald trump respond to that leaked tape? >> you can do anything. >> plus, another hack. this one revealing hillary clinton's secret speeches to wall street. what did she say behind closed doors? her running mate tim kaine responds i