ackup. at&t, no way. we offer 35 voice features and solutions that grow with your business. at&t, not so much. we give you 75 mbps for $59.95. that's more speed than at&t's comparable bundle, for less. call today. this is gps, the global public square, welcome to all of you afternoround the united stad around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you from new york. on today's show, trump strikes back, the united states punished syria for an alleged chemical attack on its own people. did the strike send a strong enough message to assad? what are it's consequences? i'll have a great panel to discuss.

also former secretary of state madeleine albright raises the alarm about fascism, saying it's on the ride around the world and even warns about the president. >> he is a democratic that has undemocratic instincts that trouble me a lot. also are we watching the end of human rights. that is the worry of no less an authority than the u.n.'s human rights chief. he is now quitting his job and naming the worst offenders. an interview you would not want to miss. but first here's my take. in april 2017, donald trump ordered a missile strike against the assad regime in syria for its use of chemical webs. i supported the action then because i thought it was worth punishing the regime for using the worst possible weapons. and finally, i was reassured

that trump was willing to act forcefully against vladimir putin, with whom he had until then conducted a strange and star truck flirtation. for all these reasons, i support president trump's use of american military power this week, especially since this time it was done in collaboration with britain and france. we're living at a time when many global institutions and values that were built up among many decades are under threat. to have some action taken to even symbolically enforce the norm of not using the chemical weapons is worthwhile. but as i spoke at the time, the administration still does not have a syria trstrategy. in fact days before deciding on a military offensive in syria, trump announced that american troops were going to withdraw from syria all together.

trump's vacillation is merely a heightened dilemma that the united states has had since the start of the civil war. it has wanted to cheer on democracy, it has been dismayed by assad's brutality. but it has never found a viable, moderate partner on the ground in syria that was large enough or effective enough to have even a chance of becoming dominant militarily or politically. so under president obama, the policy became a wish more than a strategy, announced thats assad must leave, fight isis but limit american involvement to that specific goal and take actions to deter the use of chemical weapons. in obama's case, this involved working with the russians to

confiscate chemical stockpiles. donald trump like obama is wary of american involvement and yet can't completely stay away, so he has come up with a few discreet ways of using american power without actually getting involved in the syrian conflict. it is perhaps a sign of america's have you options that on syria, despite his protestations and his constant digs at his predecessor, donald trump has morphed into obama becam and let's get started. we will get reaction to the syrian strike from many different quarters today. let's start by going live to syria where nick payton walsh joins us. what do you make of these extremely limited use of these

strikes. almost surgical, as far as we know no casualties. >> reporter: sending a message about chemical weapons was the aim here. we heard from russian lawmakers that he claimed it was in fact soviet air legacy defense missiles that took out these precision targets. also too is the notion from the russians that a similarly aged syrian defense took out 2/3 of the pentagon's commercially verifiable pictures afterwards. saying everything hit their target even before this missile strike got into play. reports of syria getting its own way, this still occurs with very little if not no russian push

back. they were warned in advance they weren't the target and they may have been told that something was coming, but they didn't choose to step up to the plate and try to intercept it, maybe they were technically unable or unwilling to fight. if the u.s. choose to strike, it can, is possibly good. iran and russia may fe-- >> the balance of forces had the united states done something more significant, could it have altered the balance of power against assad? >> reporter: probably not, frankly. if you lanunched an adequately sufficient strike against the syrians you would have hit the russians too. there's no one to take the place, i think the world would

be being a -- i'm sure after the last ten days of intense diplomacy, moscow and tehran are not happy with washington at l all. the world really just did not care. it sent aid and sent rhetoric in response. the use of chemical weapons suddenly makes everyone sit up straight. you have to mention that this military response and the cohesive rhetoric between three powers who usually can't agree on anything, now in play, damascus getting a bit of hate, if it was damascus's idea to deploy these chemical weapons. this was something they were getting away with with very little international push back. let's bring in david miliban

who was the ceo of the international rescue committee. she is now the president and ceo of the think tank new america. david, you said to me before the program began, this is kabuki bombing, to you it doesn't seem to go far enough? >> the dilemma that you described in your opening take it went back to the beginning of the syrian war, when the removal of assad were not matched by clear means and is whole of the debate is what are we talking about transition to? because everyone can say that assad is bad, but there's never been sufficient clarity about what second down it would it wo taking in refugees to our own

countries which we can come to and then the hard work of diplomacy, which involves putting pressure and applying pain to some of the supporters of president assad to try and drive some political settlement is not being opened up and coherent, and so the fundamental issue that we have today is that bombing is not a strategy, wlon whether or not you think it's justified. >> is there something realistically someone could do beyond bombing? >> yes and if we were really serious about bombing to stop the government from inflikting horrif horrific chemical weapons on its own people. you have to see this as drawing a line against chemical weapons. i think there's a good reason for that, chemical weapons, biological weapons, nuclear

weapons are uniquely different and they're weapons of mass destruction. i do not think that the trump administration has a strategy, other than -- >> any more than the obama administration had one, i would say, would you agree? >> it's funny -- in previous debates, you would have said they have a strategy and i would have said i didn't though. the trump administration doesn't even have a diplomatic strategy. macron in france says we're going to bomb to stop chemical weapons and we're going to return to diplomacy and we're also going to do the right thing around humanitarian aid. >> david, talk for a minute about the refugee issue, because it is striking to me on this very important issue, the world

eat le leader is now germany. >> the refugee welcome front. i mean it is chilling that more syrians were killed in the chemical weapons attacks last weekend, and have been admitted to the united states in the whole of this fiscal year, 44 syrians have been allowed in the united states since october of 2017. the president is decimating the resettlement program, it been a real source, a real beacon of american leadership over the last 30 or 40 years, ronald reagan welcomed more refugees than any other american president. we're now down to a president where the 45,000 refugees that the president pledged were going to be able to come into the u.s. is not going to be allowed. he's going to allow 21,000 refugees, compared to the 90,000. we're talking got -- if you're the king of jordan, if you're a country of what he calls

breaking point and america has not just got you on strangulation rations when it comes to aid, but they have also got into that situation where they're not welcoming refugees themselves. >> the quiet success of jemgerm is extraordinary, they didn't do any vetting, but there's been no great disaster, they were predicting terrorist attacks. >> there's been political push back. >> there's been a lot of political push back, but given how there's millions of people coming in rapidly, this is the dog that didn't bark, as it were. when we come back, we'll talk about spg very interesting to me, why is there so much hostility from the left, not only from the united states but in europe, we have two bona fide left wingers to explain. of them,

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and we are back with david and annmarie. annmarie, i wanted to ask you about this reaction to this strike. there are a few people, the usual suspects, lindsey graham saying we should do more to deposes a 15d. the moral authority has been coming from the left saying why are we cheering on american military intervention, why are we bombing another country. and like i said, you are bona fide liberals, i have known you for a long time. there's an enormous amount of political invective because

you've been so involved in humanitarian issues. what's going on, do you think? >> i think there's a number of different strands coming together. one is part of the american left for some time that is opposed to the use of american military force, that thinks that the use of american military force does more harm than good in the world. i recognize that it's done a lot of harm, but my grandfather fought in world war ii with belgium, with britain, and i also think we can do more. but it's that visceral response that bombs continue do anything good. and there are veterans who come back who say, at least in my twitter feed, fine, you go fight that world, you're sitting in your comfortable world sending others to do your fighting and that plays into a kind of anti-elite pro trump argument or a more populous argument.

and why are you so concerned about people abroad and not at home? i would say it's a garment of mutuality, you can't in fact say we're ta we can't take care of the folks in syria, and just take care of our own, we can't work that way. >> annmarie just said, bombs won't bring peace or stability, and one can think of for examples when bombs have brought some degree -- i mean it took military force to defeat hitler, it took military force to deter the soviet union. but there's this deep sus mission, it seems to me on the new modern party and on the left that we -- >> i would not to tar people on the left for questioning engaging in that war. more recently, there's two

things going on. one let's not underestimate the deep and shocking impacts of the wars in iraq and afghanistan. all of us need to learn the lesson that the danger is getting imprisoned in the intervention experience. and i would say as well, bombings a sat is nbombing s is not a strategy. developing diplomacy or any effort for a political settlement is not going to work. i think it's really important that military force is often a last resort, it can't become a first resort. >> do you think that the left in britain -- do you think the labor better has moved from the left to -- >> the war in kosovo, people gulped and thought that it was worthwhile. and in sierra leon.

they have given pause to all of us who in some circumstances military power should be used and when it goes wrong, it's an easy stick to take forward. i'm very careful to have in my mind irc staff working in syria. i'm fearful where mifor douma, anyone who claims to have a political argument is doomed to fail. >> and do you think annmarie, what is happening politically? is the left becoming isolationist? but the right doesn't seem to be cheering this particularly, they seem to kind of because it's jones. >> alex jones was weeping yesterday on tv. i think it's very similar to the politics of trade.

the far right and the far left actually agree that we should be focusing only on the united states. that's more on the right. force doesn't work, that's a more on the left, but they're equally opposed, i think. >> the thoughtful center one might say this is a good idea, but that is precisely the right that's lost a good part of credibility with the spirited parts offen the right and the left. >> one can have an international order and can in fact make progress against the unspeakable atrocities that people are capable of inflicting on each other. the 20th century was a narrative of the slow advance of human rights, but a real human rights movement that does have successes and a continued belief that it is possible to make a better world, again, force is never a strategy on its own, i

completely agree with david, but that force and diplomacy and standing up for individual rights around the world can lead to a better world. i don't want to give up on that hope. >> you have 30 seconds to tell me, do you have any hope that the situation in syria is improving? >> no, the situation is getting worse in syria. 2.5 million people in idlib. we have got to move on this front. protect the civilians inside the country. macron is on that agenda. make sure the turks don't throw all their lots in with russia and ukraine. >> we hope people are taking notes on those very important points. we will be back with madeleine albright on fascism. so allstate is giving us money back on our bill. well, that seems fair. we didn't use it. wish we got money back on gym memberships. get money back

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on april 28, 1945, italians hung the korpg of their former dictator in the the -- two days later, adolf hitler committed suicide in berlin. fascism it appeared was dead. the argument was striking as was the person who penned it and i have asked her to tell us what she's seeing. born in check slow czechoslovak was the first woman secretary of state in the united states. some say you're going too far,

calling donald trump a fascist is going too far. >> i'm saying he's a president that has undemocratic instincts that trouble me a lot, as someone who derives the importance of the press, who calls you the enemy of the people, who thinks he's above the law, who's in fact exacerbating the differences that exist in our society. and is somebody that plays the crowds in a way that i find dangerous in terms of propaganda and has created a situation where there's identification with one group of people, while there's no recognition of the individual rights of the others. and so that's the kind of thing. and the book actually is historical in terms of not just looking at melous mouse lean an

hitler. that term see something, say something, i'm now saying do something. a. >> one of the most important things people forget is how incremental the rise of fascism was, it didn't just all of a sudden happen, there was a step he here a step there, and that weakened the glodemocracies. >> something that mouse lean any said, you pluck the chicken just o one feather at a time. and what is going on in parts of europe and hungary and poland and in turkey and the philippines and in venezuela. these were people who were elected or got their power

constitutional constitutionally. it's the congress that actually had revolutions. but the part that got to me was the fact that it undermined the can is kblak -- >> the pressure has pushed back, i would argue, independent agencies even the fbi, the department of justice pushed back? >> very important and one of the things i do talk about is the resiliency of democracy, i believe it in fully, but it does require the active participation of the people, so on my to do list is basically to make sure that more people run for office, that they speak out and then that there is this push for the press to be able to operate and a recognition that our leaders can't be above the law. so i do think that is what's important and i do believe in

the resiliency of democracy. >> for you fascism is very personal. you were actually in europe when hitler invaded czechoslovakia. >> my father was a czech diplomat. and we were fortunate to be able to spend the war in england, mostly in air raid shelters. when the americans came, that's when i sffell in love with americans in uniform. and members of my family died in the holocaust. and another part that does happen, it's happening in various places now, you always have to find a scapegoat. it's somebody else's fault whatever that eeg's happening,

obviously hitler chose the jews. but what's happening now, orban who just won re-election in hungary is blaming the migrants. so i have to say here in the united states, there is a sense that we don't want immigrants. i think you and i have a lot of things in common and one is that we both came from somewhere else. to see immigrants as a threat and undermining, what is so great about our country is diversity. but if you're looking for a scapegoat, it will be somebody coming from a different place. and that's the problem. >> you said there's some people who might read this book and say it's alarmist, you're right, it is alarmist. >> it is a warning and i figure the following thing. i am in my 80s and i do, have seen an awful lot. and you've known me a long time. it took me a long time to find my voice.

i didn't have a high level job until i was 55 years old. i'm not going to shut up, frankly, and i have heard a lot and i do think it's important for those that have seen these kinds of things to put out a warning and then decide what we're going to do to ensure that america can have that leadership role and we believe in the rights of others and we can't be for torture and for deciding that we don't care what goes on in other countries and that for america to be great that we have to shut our borders and treat those that come here with disdain and see them as terrorists or rapists, i think it's outrageous. i do think, i am very glad that i have been able to put this book together historically. i think that's the part to show that this isn't new and that we can't keep plucking the chicken one feather at a time because it will be evident that we're going in the wrong direction.

>> madeleine albright, i hope you continue speaking for many years. >> thank you for having me on the show. the u.n. human rights chief is stepping down. why? because it seems that so few people around the world care about civil rights anymore. o coe a safe sleep aid... ...plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. i'm back. aleve pm for a better am.

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this week the world finally paid attention again to human rights in syria, but only after ghastly images spread swiftly around the world. images of six children, some seemingly dying, others desperately gasping for air. less than a month ago, the u.n. security council was supposed to hear a report on the human rights situation in syria. the person who was to brief the counsel, the u.n.'s high commissioner on human rights. here to explain what happened at that march 9th u.n. security council meeting and why it's symbolic of the reason he's quitting his important job. >> i was invited to brief the security council on syria. a i needed nine votes of the 15

members of the security council do even give a briefing. they didn't want to hear about human rights violations in syria. it's almost an absurdity. what else would you talk about if not the syrian human rights violations. if i were to continue, the procedure in the u.n. is that the permanent five of the security council, russia, china, u.s., france and the uk would -- and this is tradition would have to agree. and it was just inconceivable that they wouldn't agree unless i compromised. the security council is outspoken, and we do do diplomacy and we have made our mark as an outspoken office. and in this current environment you can only be that. and if i was to continue it

would involve compromise and i was not willing to do that. >> you point out that france has used his veto and used his power to sometimes act against human rights? >> the problems we have had most recently is with these horrific terrorist attacks, it's prompted the governments to react. but so heavy handed have the reactions been, it's quite obvious to us that in some ca cases, when fighting the monster, be careful not to become one yourself. that governments have been violating the rights of their peoples in defense of them and it's a very absurd sort of position to take so you see massive dee ninials. and all on the back of a narrative of fighting terrorism.

in the end, terrorists can create great harm, but it's only governments that would break this world, that we know all too well. >> there's been a tendency to believe that the trend's going in the wrong direction, there were bad things happening in china and russia, but the trend line was in the right direction. but i again look at russia and turkey, it seems in turkey that things are going in the wrong direction. >> it's hard to defend a position when the arrests have been so large scale and the mantra of accusing every one of being affiliated to a terrorist movement or a terrorist group, being applied to clearly liberal, let's say media outlets, and when, at the time, half the journalists imprisoned

around the world were in turkey, it's hard to explain it, other than a growing repression, a growing movement to repress and stifle freedom of expression and peaceful assembly and the like. so we see this growing authoritarianism, and with it, the world will become increasingly unstable, because with it, you also have a repudiation and a rejection of the very laws that have been constructed to keep this globe somewhat stable and safe. >> up next, is a america the country that set up the current international human rights system now abandoning it's legacy? yes says the u.n. human rights chief. he says the record on the u.s. on civil rights is only getting worse. to deliver theirsday

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. back now with more of my interview with the soon to be former u.n. human rights chief. he said that less than a month ago, the u.n. security council refused to even let him give the council a briefing on human rights problems in syria. it's just one example, he says, of how the world is turning its back on human rights which has led him to leave his important position. let me ask you about another important country, perhaps the most important country. you said that you feared that the united states for the first time since 1946, from, you know, the founding of the united nations and this whole system, that the united states was now backing away from the issue of human rights nationally? >> yes, again, looking at this vote in the u.n. security council, i think years ago would

have been unimaginable that we couldn't brief on syria. >> but you think in the past the u.s. would have very forcefully -- >> i think so. i served on the u.n. security council a few years ago and i think that would have been the case. but in overall terms, at the human rights council in geneva, there's no human rights ambassador that's been appointed, which is rather stock and you sense the absence. and the feeling is that, yes, there's certain issues which either the president has spoken about, whether we go back to the executive orders of his presidency, or since then. >> the travel bans. >> the travel bans and the issue of the dreamers and the daca and how we are in a sort of state of limbo and then the various comments that the president has

made with respect to race, with respect to charlottesville and the attacks on journalism, and we are extremely concerned because not only is it out of sync with what the historical foi point of view was, but it also was for the -- >> you've also been tough on arab countries. have you gotten -- have you been chastised by the government of jordan? are you finding -- i think people have always assumed that jordan -- do arab regard this as a betrayal. everything you've said of course is true, but it's been tough on your own part of the world. >> well, the relationship i have with my own country, i mean emotionally, it's a country that i love a great deal and i have a great deal of devotion for it.

but professionally, i do not distinguish it from my other country, if we believe there are positive developments we will cite them, and there have been a few with respect to the human rights of women. if there are negative developments, we will also speak about these negative developments, but i think any more examination of the record would bear out that we have tried to be and my office has tried to be as fair as we can be. it's one of the sacrifices you have to make when you have this kind of an important position, that you loses the support of some of the people that you -- >> does that represent the kind of equal opportunity offender you have been, does this make it difficult for you, for your next step? i mean i can't imagine some of

these countries are going to support your higher position in the international system or something like that? >> in the end, fareed, it's when you see human rights defenders, usually journalists and lawyers, around the world, you're willing to for fit everything, everything, a chance to be with their families, to be with their friends, knowing that if they public a piece, if they report on a corruption story, or if they speak out about abuse of authority, that that's going to land them in jail, maybe even be tortured, possibly never see their feels again and yet they still do it. it's a culture of sorts that normal people are not used to seeing. and we see a great deal of it. and that inspires many of us to be more courageous, it's not easy for us to speak out confidently about these issues, but you do it because the victims need you to do it. and the other human rights

defenders and the real heroes in this confrontation of ideas because they're willing to risk their lives, they respond, so it's a no-brainer, you do it because it's the right thing. >> pleasure to have you on, sir. >> thank you so much. next on gps, where does america rank amongst the world's nations on political empowerment for women? near the top, the middle or the bottom? we'll tell you when we come back. and i don't share it with mom! right, mom? righttt. safe driving bonus checks. only from allstate. switching to allstate is worth it. >> vo: they want more out of life in every way. so they're starting this year's garden with miracle-gro potting mix and plant food. together, they produce three times the harvest to enjoy... and of course, to share. this soil is fresh from the forest and patiently aged

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congratulations to illinois

senator tammy duckworth. she's the first sitting u.s. senator to have a child while in office. it brings me to my question. where does the united states rank in terms of political empowerment of women? 22nd, 57th, 96th or 112th? stay tuned and we'll tell you the correct answer. my book of the week is "post-truth" by lee mcinspire. the book looks at one of the most disturbing trends of our time, the increased dismissal of intelligence truth and fact. it's a compelling reminder that we should all fight against this dangerous nilistic idea. the answer to my challenge

is where does the united states rank in potential of empower of women, the u.s. calls 96 in terms of women in positions of decision making in government. some of the high ranking companies including rwanda, columbia and china have some kind of quota to promote equal representation. the u.s. may move up this list as record numbers of women are planninging ing tto run for co this week. fire and fury, you haven't seen anything yet. i'm brian steallter and this is "reliable sources." i have this hour breaking news about james comey's new book. the edit is still under way at abc. we have jennifer palmeri hereo