when i was a kid church meant being dragged out sunday morning. put on my good clothes and being yelled at in the name of jesus in alabama. hold onto your house shoes. these days the churches are changing. >> good morning. >> morning. >> are you ready to rock through the bible?

♪ ♪ not despite the fact many of you think i'm a godless hee than. i went to church a lot as a kid. but i don't go now. it's easy to fill up sunday morning. like protest the nfl and repeated viewings of the good place. a lot are looking for the message of jesus. those folks are joining megachurches in record numbers. you know the ones. filling up stadiums with audiences. where bieber was born again and pastors beg members to tithe for

the private jets. >> you cannot stop me. >> joel os teen bought the building when the houston rockets play. >> pray with me. >> if you're thinking haven't i seen this go badly before? yep. begging for your tithes between eight and noon. and gym baker had a sex scan cal. indicted for wire fraud and spent eight years in prison. today he's changed his ways and can be found selling meal buckets for the rapture. oh, boy. >> he says the last days are coming. >> the prosperity gospel has been put on steroids. church leaders are rolling in the profit. churches wield a lot of power. not just spiritually. financially and politically. the to find out what they're

doing with the power, i'm going megachurch hopping in dallas, texas. dallas is the birthplace of the megachurch. with over 200 in texas. dallas is the buckle of bible belt. ground zero for powerful churches in the country. it's sunday morning outside of dallas. i'm attending fellowship church in grapevine, texas. >> megachurches have become a new expression in the last couple days. they don't want to look traditional. the mall of god. >> i have viinvited pastor mcbride. we met on an activist e-mail chain. i have no idea how i got on it. michael b. jordan is on it. we have gotten into trouble together. i like his church. it has the feeling of my grandmother. with the 21st century.

>> i have been to your church in california. >> my church doesn't rival this. >> yours is beautiful. a little more homey. >> is it wrong i get suspicious? >> it's not wrong. this is like a method to try and amplify a message. i'm curious about the message. if the message is whack, then all of this is really quite a problem. given the moment of time we're in. i'm excited to peek in. >> i'm excited. you are my spiritual back up and my black back up. >> power to the people. >> this is an arena. >> fellowship church is a southern baptist church. time america learns about christianity. a megachurch is defined by the hartford institute any church having 2,000 or more people an

average weekend attendance. one of the three major divisions of christianity. with the catholic and orthodox. fellowship church is one of the big ones in the state where everything is big. fellowship has nine campuses across dallas. attracting 25,000 people a week. with a broadcast reach to millions online. broadcast satellite churches for members to see. thousands of people get up, out of bed, get dressed and go to church to watch tv. meanwhile, i have 1,100 you tube followers. jealous? i have to stee how this works. i have asked him to take me to the holy command center. >> this is our control room. >> is the pass number a bible verse? >> oh, snap. >> i'll go connect with him.

>> a preachers kid, ed grew up under the shadow of his father. who runs a church in houston. he played hoops in college. he founded fellow shp church with his wife in 1996. and figured out a way of doing church. >> our message is the god is prosex. >> the methods have received push back from traditional church goers. he's not traditional. not only a pastor, but a brand. he has written 15 "new york times" best sellers. owns a line of casual fishing clothes and google his net worth. sources say $11 million. his relatable mess annaages and occasional stage stunts causing people to walk with ed. >> amazing.

>> you're running through the whole program. twice. every week. >> where do you rehearse? >> in my bathroom mirror. >> the level of production is this is like doing the grammys. >> this is amazing. >> it's still early. i need coffee. obviously they'll take know a cold pot in the basement. what? lattes for the lord. >> this is the best coffee shop church coffee i have ever had. it's the only coffee shop in a church coffee i have had. but it's good. >> we'll take number one. >> these are the volunteers. >> how many do you have? a week. >> across the board around 1,500. across the campuses. every week. >> wow. >> i almost did a spit take. everybody i had seen had been working for free.

the people that in the control room. the greeters in the door. in the parking lot. this guy, that guy, her, them. everybody. i get the people volunteer to help churches stay afloat and serve the community. dvds ain't free, the fishing gear ain't free. what happens with the money? >> nice to meet you. >> thanks for being here. >> touch your neighbor. >> thank you for having us. >> no doubt. normally i do this, i go through the kind of vibe and the flow of everything. and i thought you might want to see the stuff. maybe that we do. i don't know if it's unique or not. >> it's unique to me. >> i'm not sure if he's putting together a sermon or pitching a

m marvel movie. i appreciate the enthusiasm. does he go everywhere with the microphone? one second he's figures out details on the sermon. and live streaming on instagram. this is amazing. a run through. instagram live. how close are we to the first service? >> 45 minutes away. >> i'm exhausted. >> this is typical. okay. >> every week. >> we have a saying. frequent change. things change all the time. >> my staff quits. >> the show right now, can we --

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first experience here? >> i do. this is a rock concert. is this really church? >> i have been at fellowship all morning learning how they megachurch. >> i remember as a kid not liking to dress up. >> i don't think god is worried

about how i look. >> what do you love the most? >> the message. it's so easy to understand. >> after rehearsal. we're ready for the message. >> how are y'all doing? >> this ain't your usual marathon. >> today i'm talking about the new testament. about 27 minutes and 56 seconds. >> in under one hour this congregation throws their hands up to three cap catch rock songs. and every book in the bible. >> touch your neighbor. >> the word power is dine matyn from it. >> did he make a good times reference? another day of worship in the books. we sit in the pulpit, i realize i have been seeing as much show

business as church business. >> i see this as performance. you had two shows today. >> no doubt it's performance. i'm not scared of saying we're entertaining. if you look at the gospel, i could argue jesus entertained. what's the word it means to capture. and hold someone's attention for an extended period of time. i hope we don't come off sri lanka -- slick or whatever. >> i hope people who don't feel invited. one thing they see is why is that where they are spending the money? >> i have heard that my whole life. >> do you feel -- >> do you feel weird about the money? >> no. i don't. but i understand exactly where you're coming from. we started fellowship church, i don't know. making $20,000 a year.

we lived in a rent a house and all that stuff. we brought 10% to fellowship. now i make more. and we bring well over 10%. don't talk about how much money you have. what are you bringing, giving. god blessed us and we give it to him. >> we do stuff from with haiti and guatemala. and camps to the up and out the down and out. could we do a better job? heck, yes. >> how do you headacmake sure y don't go down the tammy baker. this requires a lot of money. and money -- how do you prevent yourself. >> you can put board and systems and audits. you can still be going crazy. >> how does the money get here? churches are started and maintained with money given by

the congregation. like a gym membership. they can take it out of your bank account. that makes up the pile of money spent on construction, mission work. equipment. coffee shop supplies and salary. megachurch pastors sit together on boards. like a union. these groups determine a reasonable wage for each pastor on the board. what's reasonable? god only knows. they didn't tell us. >> texas right now i think of texas being a political state. do you bring up the things going on in a political in your service? >> not that much. i do stuff like what would jesus say to lebron james. or donald trump. >> slow down. >> what do you say to donald trump? >> i try. bible one hand, newspaper the other. our message will be vote.

i have never endorsed somebody. >> given the polarizing moment where we see white nationalism and racism. and triablism. do you worry that the american church is not figured out how to decipher people away from racism? >> yes. >> was jesus a racist. probably not. where's the disconnect. >> when someone is sincerely saved their eyes are opened. and hopefully they live that out. that's the conversation that we need to have more and more. i agree. >> if we don't love each other. we're going to tear this earth apart. >> heck to the yes. >> the conversations -- not just conversations. action. information. application. without application is an abomination. i'm preaching better than you're shouting. amen. >> this is our not pastor ed.

you're not jesus. that's not jesus either. that's charles manson. >> oh, man. golly. >> i'm happy we got to talk today. i'll give him credit. we asked questions. he didn't get offensive. and his congregation loves him and does great work. >> show us god how to have the hard conversations and what it means to live out what we're talking about. amen. >> touch your neighbor. with consent. >> you know. >> it wasn't as good. >> more practice. >> in the bible of texas, it's advised to wash prayers down with chilly after the service. eat, pray, football. >> not just for clarity.

am i supposed to eat this? okay. i should be careful. >> talking with pastor mike at fellowship. i thought about something. does ed get political? >> i haven't seen it. >> to me like how are you not reckoning with a political moment? >> that is quite a -- to be like jesus. to be like so humble sp holy. i want to be like him. except. except when you talk about who you get to marry or except when -- >> opening up the borders. >> jesus was an immigrant and can't hate on immigrants when they show up. either you're following a jesus of your own making. which i would argue many of us are. or you're following the jesus that forces you to have to

wrestle with a real what would jesus not do, but what did he do. >> we have a ways to fwo. -- go. >> i got challenged. like i couldn't handle it. >> don't let your ego get the best of you. >> i see the sweat. >> i'm starting to see jesus. he doesn't look like charles manson. that's good. it's an adventure. a test. [ grunting ] a test that jeff failed miserably. [ upbeat music starts ]

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i still have a lot of questions about megachurches. time to lawyer up. do they have church lawyers? of course they do. is church a business? >> churches have to be run like a business. >> i'm hear to talk to matt anthony. >> they have budgets and accomplish the chartable purpose. >> charities have to report how much money they're given ends up where you think it's supposed to go. do churches have that same responsibility? >> charities file a public information tax return. i 90. churches don't have to file that. >> is there a separation of

church and state in america. >> primarily. there's exceptions and times when the line is crossed. especially politics. >> as far as i'm concerned church and politics need to mix. but the way jesus intended. i know a famous pastor who agrees. enjoy your holiday. one of the most controversial topics out there. affirmative action. drum vs. flat. separation of church and state. coined by baptist in 1802 in virginia. they didn't want to be a business. but away from financial ties. congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. along came tax exempt status and no form of checks and balance of what's happening in the church. the founders never imagined megachurches the same way they never imagined a billionaire wanting to sell you a flame

thrower. they are getting tax free money and backing political campaigns. how does this lack of separation affect the people in the pews? >> i'm at half price books talking with dallas native. >> did you see yourself as a member of the megachurch? >> i'm one of the went to church as a kid. go occasionally now. when did you start going back yourself? >> in 1994. my sister passed unexpectedly. and i was searching. for answers. then a friend of mine called me. she said i'm going to the potters house. td jakes. the church was rocking and he came in and took us home with the sermon. it was unbelievable. i was there for 16 years.

>> you enjoyed it and had a good full-ti time why aren't you going there. >> i wasn't focussed. my mind was drifting. like what's he talking about? i was channel surfing. i heard about gate way. and i heard him preach. tuning into gods frequency. that was the message. that was really good. >> like fell lo ship, gate way church is a multi-site megachaurge in dallas. with a weekly attendance of 30,000 people. one of the biggest and conservative megachurches in the country. reports of revenue of $120 million. >> when i learned at gate way was how to have a relationship with god. the primary difference is it's white. i'm black.

i have a fro. i'm walking into this white church. they're like trying to figure me out. i remember going to shake someone's hand. i was like, okay. you haven't touched very much black people. that sort of thing. >> the limp handshake. >> exactly. i'm used to it. >> you don't want to be used to it at church. >> no. >> how long did were you at gate way. >> i left promptly at november 9, 2016. >> the day after the election of trump. >> yes. >> what made you do so promptly? >> he had given a talking point. >> we need to vote bible cal principles. >> telling people to vote for trump. he said everything but his name. >> we'll give you a voter guide. that shows you the values of each person stands for. and that you pray and please cast your ballot.

>> in the 2016 election. thousands and thousands of people attending each week. and millions watching online. church leads with tweak the message of jesus to look like it aligns with a candidate to support. and sway elections. >> just what a couple weeks prior there was an announcement we'll tear racism down one conversation at a time. now you're telling me to vote for a racist? you know. that doesn't jive. i couldn't dismiss the fact we have different ideology. but we have different social ideology. it sound like. >> what has been your process for finding a new church? >> i wrote down the names of churches that i want to visit. and threw them in a bag. and pulled it out. this is where we're going. i haven't found anything that is resonating with me. except for the potters house.

i may wind up back there. i don't know. >> wow, okay. like lebron james back to cleveland. >> oh gosh. >> that would be a big return. >> it would be. >> god works in mysterious ways. >> for sure. they help restore my natural barrier, so i can lock in moisture. we've got to have each other's backs... cerave. now the #1 dermatologist recommended skincare brand.

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the bigger the church the

more powerful the church. the power can lead to abuse of the worst kind. with no oversight. we heard about it in the catholic church. it's not just the vatican. >> sexual abuse at independent baptist churges across the country. >> virgin is not a sexual preference. or your birthright. >> a poet and activist who uses her story to confront the church history of abuse. >> this end with me. >> inspired by me too. she dropped the hash tag church too. >> a lot of my poetry is about religious stuff. it's all metaphors. the language my brain speaks. >> what was church like for you as a kid? >> so my dad was a southern baptist youth pastor. when i was born. i would say church was the

locust of my purpose. as a young person. the church for me and jr. high and high school. a evangelical church. lights and fog machines and orders to follow. we were home schooled. it was my social life. we didn't have school friend. being a part of a churge community so large, gave us the opportunity to make lots of friends. >> i think about church i think about my grandmother. it didn't just happen on sunday. it was all week. and check in with you regularly. if you want church and find what was going on. >> and somebody text you. i have a community that cares. >> any grandmother. they just stopped by our house. >> it's all encompassing. it's so important for so many people. when it betrays you, you almost feel like your whole life is having a rug ripped out from under you. essential will what happened i

was groomed for a romantic relationship when i was 16 by a respected volunteer leader. who was in his 30s. the way predators work is they groom their victims by slowly breaking down one boundary at the time. it's little. a chip here and chip here. and you're having conferrings like way inappropriate. there was a lot of talking about all the things he wanted to do to me and marry me. at 16 you fancy yourself an adult. and no one ever explained to me a 16 year-old can't consent to a relationship with a man in his 30s. especially a spiritual authority. when it was found out, the church swept it under the rug. and my parents blamed me. punished me. they med me call him. and apologize to him. that was the last time i spoke to him. me apologizing to him.

it was extremely painful. and put me in a dark place for a long time. >> i can see that as it's so complicated the church. i would imagine it's confusion about i'm supposed to be sharing my feelings with people at church. >> with my youth leaders. you are probably not going to see harvey winestein justifying his a, actions with a chapter in a bible verse. but you see a pastor do it. i don't know what to do with this. me too happened. i was like should i out my abuser on twitters? probably. okay. i'm going to do it. i sat down and wrote it out. and i pressed the button. by the morning it had gone viral. this feels like a thing people want to talk about. it's resonating. >> did you include his name. >> yes, and the name of the church.

i name names always. sometimes it's not safe. for me it was. so i did. >> how did you feel about the response? >> i was shocked that it was actually gaining traction. and people were caring and sharing the stories and were like calling me wanting to do interviews. and i was like y'all care? so many people that i know have been trying for a long time. to get the stories into the public eye. i'm grateful. >> do you ever imagine seeing the abuser again? do you have ideas the thoughts what you would say? >> what i would say? oh yeah. no. i would say you messed with the wrong bitch.

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>> cathedral of hope is the largest lgbtq church in the world. pastor harris leaders worship here. his message is simple. change the narrative. >> 1972. i was the lgbtq movement. >> i can tell from your accent you were born and raised in dallas. >> east dallas. >> i was born and raised in great britain. i was 18 i went to seminary. i learned quickly the church can be wrong. and the church is really a human main institution that has ruled and regulations that have nothing to do with the one that we follow as we call jesus. i was helpful i came out as a gay man. >> you're doing all the things. so. how long have you been here? >> three and a half years. >> all right. >> part of what i want to do is welcome people who have left churches because they can't cope with the hate. that there's often preaching in

the churches. i know megachurch pastors who would never admit they know me. but they say i wish i had the courage to preach what you preach. but if i do, i lose the pulpit. and attendance falls. >> how does this become the face of christianity? do you feel a need to like compete with that in some way? >> no. no. you live with authenticity. people are tired of unauthentic leadership. we have to take responsibility for what the church created. they created racism and homo phobia. because of white privilege and power and money. our job is break the systems of oppression. including call the church to repentance.

>> we head south of the city. one of the largest in dallas is the forefront of soshl justice. friendship west baptist church. >> toxic masculinity. devalues people of color. ageism. those who are differently abled and treated as second class citizens. rendered invisible and have no voice. you can go on and on. >> for 35 years, he has served a visionary for the ministry. and membership has grown from less than 100 in 1983 to 14,000 today. because of the work he does and he shaved off the horseshoe. how do you fit into the megachurch universe? >> strange. because i have been told that a church that emphasizes social justice can't grow. and attract people. that's been our emphasis. we contradict that.

>> a lot is also connected to wealth. there's preachers who make nba basketball money. sixth man money. maybe not starting money. >> good money. >> i goog ld your net worth. i didn't find anything. >> that maybe a reflection of what i have. >> but being in a building this huge. this beautiful and ornate. do you feel people expect. >> no question. for me it's an instrument of service to the community. that's why it's called a friendship worship and conference center. >> this is our back to school community block party. we're doing free haircuts and immunizations. >> a massive career fair. >> we use it for much needed economic empowerment. on a side of town that's neglected. my ministry hero is martin luther king, jr. what would kings ministry look like in the 21st century.

that's what we try to build. >> some pastors say i stay out of politics. but people say everything but. >> you should vote for somebody who is making america great again. you know. that kind of thing. >> blatant. >> what do yo think about you should not be political? >> well, honestly i think it's fake to say you're not political. because you can't go to the bathroom without it being political. why not have some kind of influence that is righteous? for me it's like i can't help but be involved in politics. i'm pushing for justice. >> shot and killed in his apartment. by off duty police officer. she thought he was a burglary. >> a young man in his apartment minding his business. a church worship leader. and gets shot.

i was determined that we take advantage of this moment. to make some serious systemic change. i joined in the marchs the protest. and also have been in conversation with the mayor of the district attorney as well as the police chief. >> we're calling for the dallas police department to do everything they need to do to reform that police department. >> we have been involved from talking to those in the sweets to dealing with trying to push for change in the streets. >> what are you doing tonight? >> tonight is bible study. >> when i think bible study i think church basement. stale cookies. quiet reflection. there's a message to be heard. a choir. dancers. and a cathedral packed with eager members ready to hear the pastor tell it like it is. >> have you ever been betrayed?

betrayal can really make you bitter. have you ever felt betrayed by a country? i'm talking about this one. it happens. i told you all how there's a t-shirt that says don't let your president. y'all are church people. you're not supposed to know about that t-shirt, okay? when you are secure in your walk with god, don't let what they do to you get in you, but keep your eyes on the destiny that god has for you and your eyes on that destiny says even betrayal can be used to get me where god is trying to take me. and i always rise again, even when you throw me down. >> just coming out of friendship west listening to pastor freddy hanes. they call it bible study.

just felt like preaching when i was in there. i wasn't making a tv show. i was just in church. all the stuff he was talking about, stuff i think about, talk to my friends about, my people about. i think a lot of americans stopped going to church at some point because it's not speaking to them anymore. i actually was like, whoa, wait a minute, this one's talking to me. anyway -- i'm glad to know it's here. because one day i might need it. there's nothing more important than the education of a young mind. let's go. let's go. let's go. except maybe being first in line to the grand opening of the world's largest rollercoaster. [ cheering ] the volkswagen atlas. more room means more fun.

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♪ the purpose of going into ministry is because you have a calling and you want to share the message with the people. so if you talk to god and he gave you a message, you got to build your church. >> hello. how are you? >> good, how are you doing? i'm michael. >> kamau, nice to meet you. >> good to meet you, man. >> we're about to hop a fence. >> we're hopping a fence? >> this is like some real texas. so we're hopping the fence for the lord. you show me the holy hop. >> three years ago, the well church held service out of a living room. today it fills an entire high school auditorium and it's one of the fastest growing churches in dallas. this is your property. >> it will be in a few months. >> i think if they all came on one sunday, i don't know, we have 600 or 700 people maybe. >> okay.

>> in the next probably decade, there will be tens of thousands of homes a half a mile from here. >> so this is if you build it they will come situation. >> well, they're coming. >> where does the money come from from this? >> we just share the vision of what we want to do on this piece of property. >> mmm-hmm. >> we don't ask people for money. we don't pass a plate. if people believe what we're doing, they ask us, hey, man, how can we give to this? there is a box in the back, put your money in it. if they don't believe it, they're not going to give. right now they've given enough for us to buy this land. >> this is all donations from your congregation? >> isn't that amazing? >> i remember that bible verse about rich man, heaven. you probably got it. >> it's in there somewhere. >> rich man getting into heaven. >> harder than a -- >> preachers living high on the hog. >> i see that kind of stuff. it doesn't make sense to me. i can't make you would get into the ministry ever thinking you were going to be, like, rich, but all of a sudden your church

grows. if you don't have accountability in place, you start thinking it's all about you. we've done everything we can to make sure that's not going to happen. >> okay. >> because i think the church culture in america is suffering. i think people maybe fall away from the church. why? i know that a lot of churches have become -- it's like a -- it's like a self-help seminar with the rock show as the opening act. and, look, that's great free entertainment, but you kind of leaving saying, man, that was good, but it's not changing you. >> yeah. >> we go to these buildings one day a week and go home and try to live life. when jesus came, it was all about this, you know? if we're doing this, doing it the right way, this is church, right? >> yeah, yeah. >> i need you. you need me. >> what was it, we're -- two of us are more -- >> two or more are gathered. there it is right there. i don't know if you've noticed, but it's tough, right? >> yeah. >> where do you go for answers? you go to your friends. we need to be able to talk and have hard conversations. how do you do this, man? >> the way i do it is by having

a tv show where i get to go and talk to interesting people and have those hard conversations. >> not everybody gets to do that. >> i get that. i'm living a privileged lifestyle. this week i'm talking to multiple ministers. as i got older and had more kids i'm like, maybe i need to show back up in church again. >> you don't have to go back to a building. you just need to find people to have these kinds of conversations with. >> everything you're saying is i think everything people want to hear. i think people think churches aren't doing anymore. >> we want to have everybody come here, not on sundays, but just like this. >> i love the feeling of standing on this land imagining what is to come next. >> well, it's exciting. >> can you pray for me right now? can you do that? >> is this okay? >> it's fine with me. i feel like you're talking about it and i want to -- >> let's do it. can i put my hand on you. >> please do. please do. >> i don't want you to feel weird. >> i don't feel weird. >> lord, we love you. i thank you for kamau. this is just unbelievable that you have from where he was raised, where he was born you

have him on this platform where he gets to speak to the whole world. he gets to talk about things that no one wants to talk about and he can change the world and change it for the good. so we ask those things for your name, in jesus' name. amen. >> amen. can i give you a hug. >> i'm a hugger. >> if you're going to touch me, i'm going to hug you. >> thank you, man. i appreciate it. >> thank you. thank you. i want to come back and see it be the place you want it to be. mostly act like you don't know me and got sunglasses on and a cessna lands right there and you get out and you're wearing like a linen white suit. >> linen? >> oh, man, you go to the wrong church, bro. your boots will be bedazzled. >> keep checking in on us. >> today the face of christianity is the megachurch, and if you want to megachurch, how you megachurch is up to you. if you want to do good deeds in your community, great. if you want to confront the political system we live in, absolutely. and if you're okay with your

pastor getting rich in the process, i guess it's up to you. like pastor mike said, not what would jesus do? what did jesus do? we need to get the message consistent with the dude. these messages will shape the world we live in. >> $3,750 for seven years of food all in these beautiful buckets. a jewish community in california is devastated after a gunman targets their synagogue. we are hearing the horrifying accounts of what happened. plus, sri lanka cracks down as authorities ban the burqa while they such for everyone responsible for the deadly easter bombings. and fans are saying good-bye to their favorite superheroes. the ultimate "avengers" movie is finally in theaters, and it's already shattered major box office records. hello and welcome to our viewers joining us here in the united states and of course, all a