ego and your own interests and your own disappointments. my advice to president trump is if you want at this late stage in the game to be remembered as somebody who put country first, it's time for you to do the same thing. >> we'll see you tomorrow. thanks for your time today. brianna keilar starts now. hi there, i am brianna keilar. welcome to our viewers here in the united states and around the world. we begin with one of the best developments of the u.s. pandemic coming during its darkest time so far. moderna's vaccine candidate is nearly 95% effective according to initial trial data. the second major vaccine break through this month, the other from phizer. these companies still need to submit detailed data to the fda in coming weeks, but results of these trials are extremely welcome for government scientists and health officials

like dr. anthony fauci. >> the data are striking, savannah, quite impressive. now we have two vaccines that are quite effective, so i think this is a really strong step forward to where we want to be about getting control of this outbreak. >> developments on these vaccines are good news. we don't expect to see them widely available until the spring. right now, coronavirus is spreading at an unprecedented rate and is going to get worse before it gets better. for the 13th day in a row, the u.s. is reporting more than 100,000 new infections in a day. there are nearly 70,000 people in the hospital with covid in the u.s. right now. testing lines once again, they're hours long. this is a scene of cars cueing up in illinois. and the nation's surgeon general describing the state of the crisis this way. we are truly at war with the

virus. front line trooms are weary and the enemy has us surrounded. in hospitals, they're battling conspiracy theories along with the virus, an emergency room nurse telling cnn patients dying from covid are denying they have it. she's in south dakota, a state where 58% of tests are coming back positive. >> i think the hardest thing to watch is that people are still looking for something else and they want a magic answer and they don't want to believe that covid is real. the reason i tweeted what i did is it wasn't one particular patient, it is just a culmination of so many people, and their last dying words of this can't be happening, it's not real. and when they should be spending time facetiming families, they're filled with anger and hatred. it made me really sad the other night. >> let's discuss this and this incredible news of early moderna

results. dr. dean on baylor's team developing a coronavirus vaccine, and joined by senior medical correspondent elizabeth cohen. talk about the vaccine. big benefit, elizabeth, the vaccine, the storage of it, not as demanding as phizer's candidate vaccine. explain to us. >> that's right. so phizer and moderna have similar efficacy, over 90%, both appearing to be safe with early data, no serious side effects. the way they're stored, distributed, shipped, will be different. it will make a difference. look at the differences. phizer's has to be kept minus 75 degrees, way colder than any other vaccine currently in use in the u.s. that means doctors and pharmacists don't have the freezers that go that low. after it comes out of that temperature, can stay five days in the refrigerator.

moderna needs to stay minus 20, so they have freezers that go that low. that one when you take it out can last 30 days in the refrigerator. those are tactical differences that could make a big difference in which one of these does well in the real world. brianna? >> you can see that when you look at the side by side. dr. hoi want to talk about no significant safety issues from independent review, you say there are more details in the moderna regarding efficacy in older people. tell us about that. >> again, all coming from a company press release. hard to know for certain. according to that, it is protecting people with serious infection, it is like reading tea leaves with press releases,

seems to protect older individuals as well. good news. the bottom line, we are going to have some excellent vaccines coming out in the spring. operation warp speed, others besides these, we have other vi vaccines, slowly we'll have enough to do the u.s. population. in coming months, things are going to get better. the hard part is getting through the next few weeks and months, especially when you have defined populations inch of the heartland, to try to prevent needless deaths. the numbers coming out are awful. it indicates 150,000 more americans will die between now and say first couple of weeks of february. a couple weeks after the inauguration. none of the 150,000 deaths have to happen.

they all could be prevented if we could just get populations, especially in the heartland, midwest, and texas, where numbers are rising so much, accelerating so much, putting surges on the icus and mortality goes up. hang on, convince these individuals that we don't have to -- in the past, when we have these discussions, we always said it was always indefinite period. i would plead for people to social distance, wear masks. now we can say look, vaccines are coming. you have the opportunity to save lives of your father, your mother, your brother and sister if you hang on the next few weeks. >> good point. we are in a critical phase with the holidays. you always bring up a great point, these are press releases. we are awaiting, look, i had the chief investigator for phizer on last week to talk about the strides they made, and there are a lot of questions that can't be

answered right now with what information they have publicly available. this is detailed data needs to go to the fda, and only then can we have a lot of questions answered about vaccines that are critical. when can people that are not high risk expect vaccinations. a lot of people wonder, i am not a front line worker, health care provider, i am youngish. when am i going to be able to get the vaccine, people say. >> i actually asked dr. anthony fauci that question last night, brianna. he said he thinks those vaccinations for people that are not high risk will start at the end of april, and they'll go into may and june and july. he said it will take awhile. i got the feeling he was trying to press the point that we need to be patient, not until end of april, will take several months. i will note, though, that a lot of people fall into the high

risk category, even supermarket clerks may be in high risk category, they're considered essential workers. anyone over 65, that's a lot of people. people with underlying conditions, that hasn't been defined. again, that's a lot of people, policemen, firemen. it is not as if it is this sort of small minority, people should keep that in mind. >> dr. hotez, before i let you go, i want to ask you about, you heard what the nurse said about people dying and still refusing that they have coronavirus. and you know, this is someone who spent a lot of time i am sure over the course of her career where she's seen people in their final moments, and seemed particularly distressing to her, the frame of mind some people were in, even as they died, because of the misinformation around the vaccine. i just wonder how her comments struck you. >> her comments are awful, of

course, and let's remember where this comes from. this did not happen by accident, starting in may and june, this is when i really tried to stage a counter offensive against it, the white house launched deliberate disinformation campaign, claimed covid was a hoax, down played severity of the epidemic, tried to attribute covid deaths to other causes or co-morbidities, fake concepts of herd immunity, dismissed masks, and brought on scott atlas to be lead spokesperson for the disinformation campaign. this didn't arise in a vacuum, this is the product of what anti-science information looks like. i have been going up against them for years. i was shocked to see how the white house had so organized this and really put it out there, and then many of the governors, especially in red states saw that they had to

adopt this as a form of political allegiance, and this is the consequence. this is why i'm saying this is a time now we can prevent 150,000 deaths if we can find a way to bring in the governors together, especially in the red states which are predominantly in the midwest, cultivate some republican champions to help us because for me the priority is saving lives now. >> and these folks can't be robbing people of the chance to fight this disease and in worst cases robbing them of dignity in final moments which clearly we are seeing as the nurse attested to. peter, thank you so much. elizabeth, thank you so much to both of you. president trump is largely checked out when it comes to coronavirus, states are pushing forward with new restrictions to try to stop the spread heading into the holidays. some states like washington, michigan, new york are restricting restaurants again and others like utah are issuing new mask mandates. but at the federal level,

president trump hasn't been to one of the meetings of his own coronavirus task force for months. here are dr. fauci and admiral bret gerard, testing czar on the task force. >> you know, it was months ago but when we have our task force meeting, it is run by vice president pence, and the vice president translates that to the president himself. but the last time the president was physically at a task force meeting was several months ago. >> "the washington post" is reporting this morning that the president has not attended a coronavirus task force meeting in at least five months. is that accurate? >> that's true. >> now, we should note, the president didn't give up on fighting coronavirus when he lost the election, he lost the election in part because he gave up on fighting coronavirus and he continues to stand by while

americans are dying. vice president pence has a call coming up with governors around the country, but hasn't had one of those calls since late september. michigan waging war on coronavirus, pausing indoor dining in restaurants, stopping in person learning for the time at high schools and universities. michigan is seeing major spike in daily cases, governor whitmer is sounding the alarm. >> we are in the worst moment of the pandemic to date. the situation has never been more dire. we are at the precipice, we need to take some action. >> on the precipice, dire, worst moment so far, yet the president's preferred coronavirus task force doctor, dr. scott atlas tweeted the only way this stops is if people wise up, you get what you accept. atlas later tried to clear it up, as he usually does when he says something stupid or anti-science in desperate efforts to curry favor with the president. he tried to explain he wasn't

advocating violence, just peaceful protests and for people to vote. here is what dr. fauci said about the atlas tweet. >> i mean, i don't want to say anything against dr. atlas as a person, but i totally disagree with the stand he takes, i just do, period. >> joining me, michigan's attorney general, dana nestle. thank you so much for joining us. the fbi which you are well aware of, you were the face of it, you thwarted a plot to kidnap and possibly kill governor whitmer just wheeeeks ago and target ot state officials. do you worry people may take what dr. atlas said and that they could act on it? >> yeah, absolutely. it is a grave concern to us. as governor whitmer indicated, we are at a crisis tipping point in this state, so much so that there are projections that if we don't take these measures, that the state government has put

into place, we're looking at a thousand people in our state that will die of covid each and every week. there's no plan, no assistance from the federal government, states have been left to their own devices, whether run by democrats or republicans. and public health orders are absolutely necessary to preserve human life, but once again, you have members of the trump administration that are so much more hurtful than helpful, so if we look back and see, rewatch the movie, because we have seen it before, the governor in order to address these serious issues puts these policies into place which work. but at the same time, you have the federal government saying things like rise up, liberate michigan, try to negotiate with people known domestic terrorists. what it does, it encourages people to commit crimes, whether the crime is violating the public health orders which is a

crime or whether it is actually acts of domestic terrorism. it is so harmful in our state and it doesn't help save people from covid but it does put people in jeopardy. it is so tragic. >> what happens if you mention it might inspire someone to violate the public health order, what happens if they violate public health orders announced in michigan? >> technically like other public health orders, these are misdemeanor offenses. we're not looking to prosecute anyone for this. we're looking for compliance because people should understand no matter where you are in the state, this is a tremendous problem. we're simply trying to save people's lives. that's the purpose behind these relatively simple orders that by now we should understand how

impactful it is, whether you limit indoor gatherings, limiting the number of people that can be together in any particular area, wearing a face covering over your face, a mask. these are simple policies but abundantly necessary. what it does is breeds noncompliance with these orders because what we've seen time and again, you hear statements made from the federal government of pro-trump or one of his appointees, and you have members of state legislature then call out. had a number of them call to impeach the governor over this today instead of asking constituents to comply, and instead of covid rates going down, they go up. the only way the orders work is if people actually comply with them. >> i want to ask you, you have been keeping your eye on the election and some things that happened in the wake of it. in one of these instances, you charged a man for allegedly filling out his daughter's

absentee ballot, forging signature on it. have you seen indications of widespread voter fraud? >> absolutely not. we do see minor incidences here and there, but there are so many levels of review in the system that whenever anyone tries to commit election fraud or voter fraud, they're caught and we prosecute them. we take those cases very seriously. when you talk about cases brought by the trump campaign, the fact is they're flailing, they're losing in court each and every time. had one just withdrawn this morning that had been filed last week. and we don't expect any of them to be successful in stopping the certification process. >> they're definitely struggling on their legal battles. thank you so much for joining us, michigan attorney general. appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. the president is growing increasingly erratic, refusing to concede and start transition of power. now he is claiming he won the

election that he clearly lost. plus, the president has a pattern of pretending he didn't lose and failing to take responsibility for it, all the way back to school years. we'll roll the tape. and as the president is losing fights in court, he is putting rudy giuliani in charge. america's mayor turned conspiracy theorist. >> start doing ballots like this. ♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan.

(combative yelling) he used to have bad breath. now, he uses a capful of therabreath fresh breath oral rinse to keep his breath smelling great, all day long. (combative yelling) therabreath, it's a better mouthwash. at walmart, target and other fine stores. right now, protesters are gathered in front of general services administration headquarters demanding the biden transition officially begin. gsa must sign off on funds for the transition team to move forward. so far, the gsa administrator has refused.

cnn's pete munteen. what are you hearing? >> reporter: the gsa can release funds, if i can start for the biden administration but is dragging its feet. i want to show you a group. they have these boxes set up they say signify 250,000 signatures that they've gathered in the last five days, to send a message to the gsa administrator to release $6.3 million to the biden administration which would lead to a smooth transition of power. they say it is not just the 250,000 signatures which they say they gathered from people all over the country in all walks of life, but 79 million votes for president-elect joe biden. here is what one of the organizers told me. >> 250,000 now. five days has gone from zero to

250,000. >> what does that say about the ground swell of interest? >> i would say there are also 79 million that signed a petition november 4th, right? the election results with the petition shows there's a ground swell of people saying can we get past enough of the trump administration, like you lost. >> brianna, this is more than behind the scenes of gsa, this is about real people from real life trying to make their voices and votes heard. back to you. >> pete, thank you so much. president trump's own national security adviser saying something the president refused to say. at a global security forum, robert o'brien all but declaring joe biden clear winner of the presidential election. >> the biden/harris ticket is determined to be the winner, you know, obviously things look that way now, we'll have a very professional transition from there. no question about it.

>> his boss, president trump, remains largely out of the public eye, but coming through loud and clear on twitter. lame duck president, hold up in the white house, rehashing false claims the election was stolen from him. he book ended a night of sleep tweeting a sad lie. i won the election, but tweeting it twice, once in all caps, doesn't make it real. hours earlier, the president seemingly, grudgingly acknowledging defeat tweeted joe biden won because the election was rigged. half correct. joe biden did win, perhaps revealing the president can't fully escape reality, but no, the election was not rigged. the president continues with baseless claims of election fraud. let's get the facts from cnn's daniel dale. let's take it methodical as often works here, daniel. the president insists that vote watchers and observers were not

allowed in rooms where votes were being counted. what about that. >> that's false. president trump previously made this claim specifically about philadelphia where his lawyer subsequently went in court, told the judge it was not true, the lawyer admitted trump observers were allowed in. he made this accusation about detroit where tcnn had them watching the watchers. anywhere biden observers were allowed, trump had people as well. >> watchers watching watchers watching count. what about the president's claim that millions of ballots were altered by democrats for democrats. >> this again is completely made up. we have no evidence that millions of ballots were altered, we don't have any evidence any ballot was improperly altered. people may be watching thinking the president must be basing this on something, must be a stretch. no, this is con juried out of thin air. the president made a false claim

of millions of illegal votes in the race he won. trump is inventing millions of altered votes, illegal votes, it is completely imaginary. >> what about the president's claim that votes were cast after the election was over? >> that didn't happen on any large scale, ballot or two may have slipped through the cracks, can't be sure. in general here is what happened. more than 20 states accepted ballots that were received after election day, including military ballots. those votes had to be cast, mailed on or before election day, so voting happened by the normal deadline. it is simply that mail arrived afterward. that's a fact. >> those had to be counted by law, it would have been illegal not to count them. these are people exercising their rights, in many cases serving around the country. the president has been raging

against dmo minimum yum voting machines. what are the facts on that? >> a bonkers conspiracy theory. there's no evidence there was any issue with dominion, no evidence there was deliberate, nefarious behavior by the company, this is software and hardware widely used in red states, blue states. there were a couple issues in michigan, those were caused by human error, by people using the software. there was one issue in georgia that related in delay in reporting of results, not in counting itself. and i need to point out, the trump administration department of homeland security issued a statement, there's no evidence any voting system altered or lost any votes. this is again, completely imaginary. >> completely imaginary. daniel dale, thank you so much for that. appreciate it. with each day, the

president's refusal to concede leaves americans less safe. on the national security front and in the battle against coronavirus. president trump's history as a sore looser is well documented, even from the time he was young. he shouted fraud and rigged election in every contest since 2012. in the obama romney election, went on a tweet storm, pushing baseless claims and conspiracies about black panthers, voting machines, stolen votes, switching votes. once the election was called, said it was a total sham and travesty. in the 2016 primaries, he baselessly accused ted cruz of stealing iowa caucuses, even though he blew off the republican debate. iowa caucus goers didn't like. he demanded results be nullified. this was before trump said

senator cruz's wife was ugly, his dad was involved in jfk's assassination. now ted cruz is riding a float in the fraud parade. >> i think it is way premature. we do not know who prevailed in the election. the media is desperately trying to get everyone to coronate joe biden as next president, but that's not how it works. >> it would be out of trump didn't claim fraud. >> the system, folks, is rigged. it is a rigged system. you have to understand, i'm not complaining about the states i won, those are okay. >> the republican system is totally crooked, totally rigged. hard for somebody like me to win, even though i am winning very substantially. >> the system is also rigged

because hillary clinton should have been precluded from running for presidency of the united states. folks. it is a rigged system. it's a rigged system. we're going to beat it. we're going to beat it. there are a lot of people, a lot of people, my opinion and based on proof that try and get in illegally and vote illegally. but in california, the governor said i hear we're sending millions of ballots all over the state, millions, to anybody. to anybody. when that starts happening, you don't have a fair, you have a rigged system. you have a rigged system. i don't want to see a crooked election. this election will be the most rigged in history if that happens. absentee is great, but -- the only way to take this election away from us is if this is a

rigged election. >> it is a fraud and it is a shame. >> this is a fraud on the american public. this is an embarrassment to our country. >> the fraud on the american public is president trump saying there's widespread voter fraud when there isn't. the embarrassment to the country is the president's refusal to concede, even as his campaign and its allies are losing case after case in court because there is no evidence. his own government is saying this election was the most secure in history. coincidentally or not, the president seems to agree with that in states he won, not claiming fraud in any of those. he is touting media projected wins there, and he isn't suing in states he won. it is not just elections that bring out his loser limp. anything will do. the courts, for example. when the supreme court ruth bader ginsburg and sotomayor ruled against him in illinois, he said this. >> i just don't know how they

cannot recuse themselves for anything having to do with trump or trump related. >> he also went on a racist attack against a judge overseeing the fraud case against trump university. >> but i have a judge who is a hater of donald trump, a hater. he's a hater. i have had horrible rulings, treated very unfairly by this judge. now, this judge is of mexican heritage, i am building a wall, okay? i am building a wall. >> the judge is american from indiana, it wasn't trump being a sore loser, that was racist. for trump, even award shows are stacked against him. >> there was even a time he didn't get an emmy for his tv program three years in a row, started tweeting the emmy's were rigged. >> should have gotten it. >> this is a mind-set. this is how donald thinks, it is funny but it is also really troubling. >> when trump loses, he doesn't accept defeat, he accuses others

of cheating. it is a way of life for him since he was young. trump revealed two "the washington post" reporters, for the first time he took pride in his grades, grew angry when study partner scored higher on a chemistry test, questioning whether he cheated. last week trump's behavior with the image of an ex that won't accept the breakup. and from the movie, standing outside a window, and compared to bruise willis, not realizing he is dead. trump is starting to resemble milton from "office space." fired from his job, refusing to acknowledge it. people around him just not telling him. milton complained ad nauseum about his missing stapler. trump talks about voter fraud that didn't happen. milton burned down the office on the way out. trump is doing it figuratively, firing key administration officials left and right. milton absconded with hundreds

of thousands in traveler checks, a pittance compared to what trump is taking, america's most valuable currency, faith in democracy. ahead, our nation is flooded with coronavirus, doctors, hospitals are overwhelmed. i speak live with a doctor on the frontlines. schools shutting down after students threw parties. why holiday plans may be next on the chopping block. moments from now, joe biden and kamala harris speak on the economy. we'll bring you that live. when i was in high school, this was the theater i came to quite often. the support we've had over the last few months has been amazing. it's not just a work environment. everyone here is family. if you are ready to open your heart and your home, check us out. we thought for sure that we were done. and this town said: not today. ♪

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the coronavirus surge in idaho is dire. health care centers there overwhelmed. the phones are ringing off the hook. the numbers nearly double what they were before the pandemic, and health care providers can't pick up every call. dr. david peterman, ceo of the primary health care group in idaho, thank you so much for being with us. >> brianna, thank you so much for the opportunity to talk with you and share with the national audience my concerns. >> tell us first off what you see as the cause of the increase in cases.

>> well, it's very obvious to us in health care that we defined what are straightforward measures to mitigate this disease and we offered, they're wearing masks, they're distancing, avoiding gatherings, and of course, washing our hands. here in idaho, that's just not happening. we are at the level of the primary care clinics, particularly our clinic, we are being overwhelmed just as you describe. we normally receive 1800 phone calls a day, we are now receiving over 3,000. 75% of the calls are for coronavirus related questions. the community spread is so high here, we have a positivity rate that's 25%. that has impact on our staff and our doctors. from the community spread, not from in clinics, our own staff

on a daily basis, 30 to 40 are out and 5 to 10 doctors. and the third thing is because of this, and the staff not being available, we have had to close six of the urgent care clinics. and my concern is in a sense we all need to see our doctors at some time, in the urgent care, you fall down, sprain your ankle. if i can, brianna, in your case if your son has an earache or are concerned he has strep throat, you need to go to your primary care or urgent care. if we are so overwhelmed, can't address those needs, then we are in very bad shape because the only default would be the emergency room. >> that's one of the things we talk about, how the er is under strain, hospitals are under strain. you're talking about what it is like when you go to a primary care physician.

yes, i don't know what i would do, i used it last week for my son, what would i do if i didn't get to the doctor, what do you do if you can't get to an urgent care which is certainly, if you have an issue, a better place to go than to the er. we know right now the next couple of months things are going to get worse, doctor, we have cold weather upon us, you're feeling that in idaho, flu season will health centers be able to handle the influx of patients? the picture you're describing is one you're already tapped out. >> you make a good point. all of us watched on tv, heard other experts talk about the strain on health care workers in hospitals and health care workers in intensive care units. i certainly feel for them having worked in hospitals myself. i wanted to make sure that the

public understand, particularly here in idaho, now we're seeing that strain in primary care. and you're absolutely right, at some point you say you can't see everyone or you can't answer every phone call. today, right now, no. we're doing everything we can to see every patient, answer every phone call that we can. and the answer is we need everyone to wear their masks, avoid gatherings, and wash their hands. that's what we need. it's very simple. >> thank you so much, doctor, for coming on and talking to us about the limitations it is posing on the medical facilities that so many of us just depend on. we really appreciate it. >> thank you very much, brianna. moments from now, president-elect joe biden will be speaking live as the president refuses to start the transition of power and the

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>> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. we do have some breaking news. cnn is learning that the u.s. military has been told to plan for a u.s. troop drawdown in iraq and afghanistan. bash ra starr, what do you know? >> reporter: they are anticipating a formal order will be given by president trump as soon as this week, perhaps in the next 48 to 72 hours, to begin that furse withdrawal of u.s. troops from afghanistan and iraq, and have them out by january 15th, just five days before he leaves office. what the order is expected to

call for it a drawdown to just 2500 troops even both in afghanistan and another 2500 in iraq. that will be a very significant drawdown in both countries. u.s. commanders had been very concerned about a further drawdown in afghanistan, believing it would be become much harder for them to do their mission. right now there's about 4500 u.s. troops in afghanistan, 3,000 in iraq, both those numbers to come down to about 2500 now, some five days before the president leaves office. there is still a chance that u.s. commanders could talk him out of it, but this is a political agenda that the president very much has wanted to pursue. president inside saying last week's purge, the fires of secretary mark esper, the putting in of trump loyalists at

the top of the pentagon was aimed at carrying this very decision out and making it happen. top military advice has been not to do it, especially in afghanistan, to draw it down to 2500 troops, commanders say, it's just not time yet. they want to bring the troops home, but it's just not time yet. there's significant violence by the taliban, and real concern that the government of afghanistan and afghanistan security forces might not be able to withstand that taliban violence if those higher numbers of u.s. troops are not there. brianna? >> let's talk about what this is doing here in the near term here, barbara. it seems to be very bizarre to do this as a new administration is coming in. this could have the effect of setting up a biden

administration for failure. if the peace process falters and the violence remains high, as you mentioned, with the taliban? >> reporter: that is exactly right. the u.s. signed an agreement known as it is doha agreement, but the u.s. is ensuring to hold the taliban's leadership feet to the fire, that they reduce attacks. by doing this, you have essential, many believe, forfeited the leverage of the u.s. military against the taliban. in the early day, president trump talked about don't signal the adversary when you're pulling out, you lose leverage, and here we are, that's what he 'decided to do, to carry out his political promise to end the war. it's not that these u.s. commanders don't want to end the

war. i think we need to keep emphasizing that. everyone wants to say u.s. troops home, but the question is, how do you do it? what do you leave behind? and you know better than anyone, brianna, are you opening the door for having to go back someday? are the taliban and al qaeda really under control in afghanistan? i don't anybody that would tell you reasonably that they are. in iraq, pulling those troops out of the iraq, you have iranian-backed militias in iraq that have considerable strength, power and influence, iran is increasing its influence in iraq. if you don't have the u.s. troops there, are you weakening the iraqi regime, the iraqi government that the u.s. fought so half to put in place. in both countries, it's a question of, is it right?

is it the time right? is the president taking the best military advice from the generals and commanders in charge? it does not appear that he is. is he making a decision based on some of his own political statements, that seems much more likely to be what he's doing, and much more likely this is the fundamental reason he cleared out the pentagon leadership last week. this now leaves him the ability to do as he chooses. >> yeah. >> the orders will be fold. as you say, what are the ramifications? >> the orders will be followed. i want to bring in our senior military analyst, retired general mark hertling, as well as vivian salama. i want your reaction on what is happening here, what we expect to happen, but certainly, look, we know the president with some of the things we have seen him say or that we know he is

considering behind the scenes, you know, that he's looking to be someone who drew down troops. he may have an eye on running for, again, in 2024. being the president who took troops out of these, quote/unquote, endless wars is part of what he wants to be about. this is a partial drawdown, it's not like this is going down to zero. you're talking about embassies still open, bases still open, you're talking about thousands of troops still operational in iraq and afghanistan, even as dropping down by, you know, 1500 here, 500 there, is going to create some challenges for how the military conducts itself in iraq and afghanistan. >> yeah, true, brianna. i would also point out the initial warning order stated it would be conducted before

january 18th. that seems to be in line with the president's incomprehensible order, which goes against condition-based operations. that's a phrase used in the military all the time. you know that. it's what is happening on the ground in order to allow you to withdraw or conduct other operations? conditions based. we have seen the taliban violate every single part of the doha agreement, as barbara just said. the conditions in iraqer tenuous with a new government recently put in place, and a lot of al qaeda actions. but we saw indicators of this when the new secretary of defense miller put out his welcoming her, where he says the fight goes on, but we can't stay in endless wars. it was somewhat contradictory, because the intelligence says that the violence is increasing

in scope and intensity. so in my view it's the wrong time to do this. when you talk about that limited number of troops, you not only have to weigh the combat capability, the counter-terrorism capability in afghanistan as an example, you also have to weigh the force protection capability. when more troops are drawn out, they sometimes can't even protect themselves on the bases. that becomes part of the equation. >> vivian, i wonder what you're hearing and what your impression is of this news. >> brianna, to remind you before i started covering it trump white house, i was the chief to the a.p. history has shown time and time again hasty withdrawals from places like iraq and afghanistan can backfire. we have seen this over and over again. when i was in iraq, we saw troops coming back, and then

ground troops because of the fact of the hasty withdrawal that took place in 2011. it was too short, too early, and al qaeda and isis later on were able to regroup, and grow into a force. so this is what we see over and over again. nobody wants to put troops in harm's way, nobody wants them on the frontlines, but for purposes of national security, it's extremely important. advisers have been telling the president this over and over again, he's been adamant, it's been a core promise since he took office, that he was going to withdraw from afghanistan and iraq, and he's pushed that forward despite the warnings from so many senior military officials. so you have to ask now, the biden administration will inherit this issue. what position is afghanistan going to put them in? will we be forced to go back in

the way we were in the obama administration later on we could be putting ourselves back into another conundrum. >> do you accept a certain but small level of risk now, or are you creating a situation where there's much more risk, and actually there are more lives at stake. to that point, general hertling, i wonder, is this the trump administration put ago potential disaster right into the lapse of an incoming administration, and playing with the lives of troops? >> it is my assessment that it is, brianna. it's not only playing with the lives of u.s. troops, but it's undercutting the early stage of a formation of an afghan government. they are not going to be able to hold against the tal