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deal. dash dot com and see how much you can save. >> she put her entire career at stake. >> ellen's coming out episode says to the world it's okay to be gay. >> i don't think i realize how much it meant till i saw the reaction. >> tv on the edge moments that shaped our culture sunday at nine on cnn cbs news vice presidential debate it is now time for the closing statements. >> senator vance won the virtual coin toss and elected to go last. so, governor walz, you are first. you have two minutes. well, thank you, senator vance. thank you to cbs news. and most importantly, thank you to all of you. if you're still up and the folks who missed dancing with the stars, i appreciate it. but look, the support of the democracy matters. it matters that you're here. and i'm as

surprised as anybody of this coalition that kamala harris has built from bernie sanders to dick cheney to taylor swift and a whole bunch of folks in between there, and they don't all agree on everything, but they are truly optimistic people. they believe in a positive future of this country, and one where our politics can be better than it is. and i have to tell you that that better than it is is the sense of optimism that there can be an opportunity that works for everyone, not just to get by, but to get ahead. and the idea that freedom really means something, not the freedom of government to be in your bedroom or your exam room, but the freedom for you to make choices about yourself. now look, we all know who donald trump is. he's told us. and as maya angelou said believe him when he told you that his first inaugural address talked about american carnage. and then he spent four years trying to maybe do that senator vance tonight made it clear he will stand with donald trump's agenda. he will

continue to push down that road excuse me, kamala us a different option. now i have to tell you, i'm going to be careful about the quotes, but there's one that senator vance said that does resonate with me. >> he said, donald trump makes the people i care about afraid. a lot of america feels that way. we don't need to be afraid. franklin roosevelt was right all we have to fear is fear itself kamala harris is bringing us a new way forward. she's bringing us a politics of joy. she's bringing real solutions for the middle class, and she's centering you at the heart of that all the while asking everyone, join this movement. make your voices heard let's look for a new day where everybody gets that opportunity and everybody gets a chance to thrive i humbly ask for your vote on november fifth for kamala harris governor walz. >> thank you senator vance, your closing statement. >> well, i want to thank governor walz. you you folks at cbs, and, of course, the american people for tuning in this evening. and one of the issues we didn't talk about was

energy. and i remember when i was being raised by my grandmother, when she didn't have enough money to turn on the heat. some nights because ohio gets pretty cold at night, and because money was often very tight. and i believe as a person who wants to be your next vice president, that we are a rich and prosperous enough country where every american, whether they're rich or poor ought to be able to turn on their heat in the middle of a cold winter night that's gotten more difficult thanks to kamala harris's energy policies. i believe that whether you're rich or poor, you ought to be able to afford a nice meal for your family. that's gotten harder because of kamala harris's believe that whether you're rich or poor, you ought to be able to afford to buy a house. you ought to be able to live in safe neighborhoods. you ought to not have your communities flooded with fentanyl. and that, too, has gotten harder with kamala because of kamala harris's policies. now, i've been in politics long enough to do what kamala harris does when she stands before the american people and says that on day one, she's going to work on all these challenges. i just listed she's been the vice

president for three and a half years. day one was 1400 days ago, and her policies have made these problems worse. now, i believe that we have the most beautiful country in the world. i meet people on the campaign trail who can't afford food, but have the grace and generosity to ask me how i'm doing and to tell me they're praying for my family. what that has taught me is that we have the greatest country, the most beautiful country, the most incredible people anywhere in the world. but they're not going to be able to achieve their full dreams with the broken leadership that we have in washington, they're not going to be able to live their american dream if we do the same thing that we've been doing for the last three and a half years, we need change. we need a new direction. we need a president who has already done this once before and did it well. please vote for donald trump. and whether you vote for me or vote for tim walz, i just want to say i'm so proud to be doing this, and i'm rooting for you. god bless you and good night. >> senator vance thank you and thank you both for

participating in the only vice presidential debate of this election cycle. i'm margaret brennan and i'm norah o'donnell and a reminder, there are just 35 days until election day please get out and vote. and for all of us here at cbs news thank you, cbs news. thank you and good night all right a substantive civil debate. >> despite months of rather vicious and nasty attacks between senator vance and governor walz, they tonight were largely kind and agreeable with each other. they often talked about finding common ground. they obviously held their toughest criticisms for the folks at the top of the ticket. vance, clearly, i think it needs to be said clearly. the more experienced debater the slicker speaker walz is strongest moment perhaps, came at the end. they're talking about democracy. that was also, i would think, vance's

moment all night when he claimed that donald trump handed over power peacefully. obviously not accurate, but generally dana and abby, my overall impression is that both men came to seem likable and i think it's quite possible that both men achieve that task. >> yeah, i mean, i think this was kind of the rehab debate rehab in terms of image. certainly that was the case of jd vance that was his goal of trying to rehab his image and more importantly the image of the guy at the ticket but i'm not sure at the end of the day, the day it's really going to matter. i just want to say, right before, uh, you came on, we did see something that kind of speaks to what i'm saying the candidates chatting their wives came up chatting. that was not something we to in the presidential. >> i think we shouldn't lose track. i think even in the

civility of the fact that jd vance came to this debate to land a bunch of punches, and he did he landed a lot of punches in between all the niceties and all of that. and the thing that that's really stood out to me was that tim walz did not seem prepared for it he didn't respond to a lot of the criticisms and attacks that vance put on the table. he allowed some clear falsehoods to just go completely unanswered he allowed jd vance essentially to dodge on a whole host of issues on climate change, on on the issue of his flip flopping on donald trump, he, he allowed vance initially to claim that trump salvaged the affordable care act. it took him several sentences to get to the part of his answer walz' answer, where he where he actually responded to that. i mean, i think there was a clear lack of preparation and execution here on the he. i think actually it's the opposite. i think he had too much preparation. maybe he had so many lines that he was

clearly trying to say that he didn't listen. and when when jd vance said one of the many, many things he really hit kamala harris on, not tim walz but kamala harris, he didn't respond because he clearly had things in his mind. i think the lack of interviews that he has done with national media, with local media, it showed he needed more reps. >> yeah, no i agree. i mean jd vance is a much more experienced at this, at public speaking, at defending himself, at pivoting. you talked about the many times that walz let vance get away with saying things that weren't true and you talked about the obamacare one, as if donald trump actually had tried to save obamacare. >> just to be clear, he eventually did address that part of it. he did after it took a little winding up. and i think that an experienced debater immediately jumps on something like that, because that's a really critical point for a democrat to make. >> so one of the things that i

wonder about when it comes to this debate is who is what were they told? what were vance and walz told in terms of what was their goal for the night? probably they were told that this is about supporting your running mate and going after the running mate. on the other side, the presidential ticket the not the vice president and also trying to appeal to undecided voters. and there might only be 2 or 3% of those left, but that's still a significant group when you have an election that's razor thin, the margins are so tight. so one of the things i thought is it sounded based on how you listen to the vance and walz talk, that they there are certain assumptions that they're making about those undecided voters. >> sure. >> one of them that those undecided voters support abortion rights because jd vance is fairly clear and on the record and has been for years that he supports banning abortion nationally. it was on his senate issues page before

he was picked as donald trump's running mate to hear jd vance talk about that issue tonight, he he expressed consternation with the republican party for not reaching out more, not talking to more people wanting to provide more options for women and yes, absolutely. did tim walz did not go after him on that? >> that's part of the point is that you're actually explaining exactly what i think was missing on the debate stage jd vance has a record on abortion and you didn't really hear about that from tim walz. it doesn't have to be lengthy, but you just didn't hear it. and and secondly, jd vance job tonight was to launder trumpism for middle america, for those undecided voters. and i think that that in large part, he was able to do that without getting a whole lot of pushback from tim walz on the stage. and maybe they're talking to

different segments of that undecided pool. but i don't think vance. vance was able to just do what he came to do, which is to take trumpism and just package it up in a different what i said, rehab. i don't i don't necessarily think at the end of the day, though that what we saw is going to make a big difference at the top of the ticket. sure. >> well, i mean, when you listen to jd trump years low inflation the world was not on fire. peaceful transfer of power. i mean, it sounds great. i don't know that that's necessarily exactly what the world experienced, especially if you leave the public with that impression. that's what they're going to, especially when it comes to those who are watching. that's what power there was. not just just for the record, there wasn't. there was not a peaceful transfer of power. we all saw it. john king what were your thoughts? >> well, my thoughts are based on incoming from democrats and republicans throughout the debate, and they saw this as a debate in two parts. essentially, the first 40 minutes where a lot of democrats were getting a little nervous and republicans were

quite elated thinking that jd vance was prosecuting the case. they want to prosecute going after the biden-harris record on the economy, going after the biden-harris record on the border, repeatedly talking about inflation was lower, prices were lower, things were better in your life when donald trump was president. things are worse now. the same group even the republicans conceded and democrats were much more happy with that second hour where they believe on health care on gun rights, on abortion rights, on democracy, on january 6th, on issues that the democrats believe play more in their favor, their governor walz got his footing and was a much better debater. and drawing much sharper contrast. the question, jake, is, number one, does it matter at all where the vice presidential candidates in the past, it hasn't mattered much. we'll see, because this campaign is very different but at the beginning, the two issues driving the campaign right now deficit on the economy. harris has a big deficit on immigration. and republicans were happy tonight. and democrats a little bit nervous that on those two issues, vance carried it

out how voters themselves are responding to the debate. >> we have a focus group of undecided voters in michigan. big, important battleground state. we're going to check in with them. we're also going to get the first results of cnn's exclusive instant poll. this is a poll of people who watched the debate anderson, what's the view of the table in terms of the debate what are your folks think? >> well i'm about to pull them right now, but i do think it was fascinating how nervous it seemed that governor walz was when he first came out. and to the point was made earlier perhaps. i think it was dana's point not doing a lot of television interviews local, national made a difference. >> yes, i think that is one that is absolutely true. and i thought his first answer on the situation in the middle east was probably one of his weakest answers he closed strong without a question, and on those on those questions of abortion, the affordable care

act, and of course, the end on democracy. i think he did very, very well. i, you know people are shooting me numbers from dial groups across the way and pretty surprisingly to me, they basically ruled said it was more of a draw. one thing should be noted and that is the degree to which we discussed before the debate. there are two jd vance's. there's the jd vance that you saw tonight, and then there's the jd vance, who is a right wing social media troll the guy who really attracted the right to him. he definitely went through door a tonight, and he had a mission. and that mission was to to be what donald trump isn't which is to be to sound reasonable, to be cautious, courteous to the opponent, to acknowledge that there may have be some reasonableness in the opponent's argument. but i have some other differences. i mean, it was it was really governor walz almost played along with and rather than sort of pointing out, wow, this is a completely different guy, he

sort of said, oh, and we agree on. >> well, and i think it comes naturally to walz. i think someone, someone texted me and said, i wonder how many people in the country said, gee, i wish these could be the two candidates because there were people who seemed to be having a reasonable discussion. bottom line on this, i don't think it changes the race at all. it was an interesting night i don't think it changes the race at all. i was struck by the fact that jd vance is a significantly more eloquent donald trump watching that. i don't agree with jd vance on quite a bit, but he speaks to maga in a way that he comes off as an incredibly effective communicator. i honestly would be surprised that donald trump doesn't want to debate again, because jd vance did so well and he's going to want the final kind of, you know, the closing argument. but listen, the a different jd vance is a chameleon. there's there's multiple sides to him. it's one of his greatest political strengths he showed up with a command of facts there were some untrue things that he said. but he seemed he tried to show the side of empathy with him, that i found myself believing it. and then i

remember his lies about haitian kids, his comments about childless cat ladies and his general record online is a mean spirited internet troll. so long and short. i don't know that this moves the needle, but i do think it solidifies his place as the maga heir apparent. after >> look, i think what you saw tonight was the kitchen table versus the ivy league. i went to the same law school as jd vance, and that's how they teach us to do it slick, slick, slick. the problem is jd vance changes personalities like most people change suits and his job was to come out tonight and try to stain, wash the crazy stain, wash all the crazy stuff, he said against women, against haitians hussein, wash donald trump. and he would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for the pesky facts he lied. the entire night. he lied about american energy production, which is up. he said it's down. he lied about health care. he said donald trump saved obamacare. you'd have to be literally on capitol hill. >> he didn't talk about that when you're done. >> he lied about the insurrection that you said. we had a peaceful transfer of

power. he lied. he said he never supported a national abortion ban. he is donald trump is a gaslighter in chief. and this is his loyal lieutenant who came out here to try to polish up the crazy. and i think americans need to be very, very careful. this is a very very deceptive guy we are trained to do what he did and don't fall for it. >> can i just say go ahead, david? no, no no, no. say i was going to say, look, i think from this perspective, the republican side of the world, ten, ten out of ten for jd vance. ten strike. as abby noted, he landed a lot of good punches, but he did so with iron fist in a velvet glove. he was very smooth, very slick. he was likable he looked presidential. he had a command of the facts. he wasn't flustered. he was a guy you'd want to have a beer with. okay tim walz coach walz your boy fumbled bigly on tiananmen square. i mean, he was talking about

i'm human. instead, he looked yeah, he lied about that. and maybe people reminded him of his lies about his time in uniform. and so that was bad. not bad. i was i was i then the other thing i was struck by no question on ukraine. one of the biggest issues facing our country and the globe, no question on ukraine. and then my final thought was, what would josh shapiro have done up there tonight? well, my friend governor josh shapiro up on that stage with jd vance. it would have been world heavyweight slugfest between two really intellectual great candidates. and i just wonder if the harris people are thinking maybe we should have picked josh shapiro. >> when you say ten out of ten and velvet fist and so on, by the end of the debate, he was like the guy with like fleet gym shoes on, running away from the question. he wouldn't answer the question about the election. couldn't, because donald trump would not allow him to say that the election was legitimate but on the health care issue, because i was there, i just want to tell you the affordable care act has meant so much to so many

people. donald trump tried 60 times to kill it. only john mccain saved it when he couldn't kill it. he cut the budget for marketing of the aca. he cut subsidies for the aca. there were many ways in which he tried to strangle the aca because he couldn't outright kill it and he said in this campaign that he wanted to eliminate it still still. so to to hold him up as a champion, the guy who saved the affordable care act was perhaps the most disingenuous thing. >> but again. but again he did a good job. you expect. did you listen? did you expect walz to sort of prosecute a case against jd vance more? >> yes, and he did. and i think the biggest flub of the night was tiananmen square. but i also thought that walz could have gone on on the offensive more. >> i mean, this issue with haitian migrants was horrible. the republican governor, as we mentioned denounced the lies that were spread there wasn't a lot of hits landed. it was more just playing defense or sticking to the issues that he was trying to push forward on and there were things he could

have fact checked him on. i was kind of stunned by the obamacare that he let him get as far as he did. on suggesting that trump was the savior of it. i think that to be honest, tim walz was a little in over his head tonight. i think his performance got better by the end of the night. the best moment. and unfortunately, it's probably what the fewest voters are going to have seen was the january 6th answer. that felt like the moment that he had kind of taken the bait on jd vance being the nice guy and trying to be friendly with him. and in that moment he's like, wait this is somebody i don't trust. this is somebody who has lied about things. and he kind of found his bearings there. that was a moment that i think actually will play with undecided voters, because he called him out pretty directly, but otherwise. >> but i said before i said before he should avoid the trap of not being who he is. okay, he came and he was who he is. and my guess is that when voters are asked about this they are going to say this was more of a draw than than we're depicting it as here. >> more from here. but i want to go to kaitlan collins in the spin room. kaitlan thank you sir. yeah. anderson. thank you. i am here in the spin room. it

is very crowded in here as you can tell, understandably. and for those who don't know, the spin room is where surrogates come after a debate has finished to spin their respective candidate's performance. we saw a slew of them come in the door, both on the van's side and the wall side, but right now, something notable is happening which is that senator vance himself is inside the spin room. this is not a last minute decision like it was for donald trump to come into the spin room after that last debate that he had with vice president harris. jd vance had already planned to come into the spin room. regardless of how this debate went. but i've been talking to a few allies of the former presidents and of jd vance is saying that they believe he had a strong performance in this debate tonight, that they achieved what he actually came here to do. of course, there's a big question of whether or not it actually moves the electorate any. we didn't really see that after the harris trump debate. so that's a big question here. i will tell you that we heard some democrats coming in as well. the governor of colorado, jared polis, is in here. amy klobuchar of minnesota. one

answer that amy klobuchar was focusing on when she first came in the room was not on tim walz said before in this debate was focusing on how that debate ended. that question there at the end about january 6th and how governor walz was talking about that in comparison to how senator vance was framing that. so that seems to be the initial reaction so far here in the spin room that democrats are going to focus on that last exchange there, where vance did not acknowledge that donald trump lost the 2020 election. meanwhile the trump surrogates came in here quite happy several senators also several campaign advisers praising jd vance's performance. there is a question, anderson, tonight an open one of whether or not what happened on that debate stage changes donald trump's view of the debates. and if it encourages him to potentially meet harris on the debate stage. again. some people have been trying to convince him to do so. so far, it has not been successful. anderson. >> caitlin. it looks kind of crowded in that spin room we'll check back in with mostly reporters and as i said, i'm not i'm not calling it a spin room i'm calling it a spin

closet because it is quite constrained. >> typically they've been pretty open areas and remember, donald trump came into the spin room. it was quite large. it's about mainly secret service officers, which are the ones standing behind me doing their jobs and of course, a lot of surrogates in here. we're going to get all of their perspectives. >> all right. we'll check back in in with you then. you were wanting to say something. >> well, i do just want to say that there are a lot of people who i know who are independents, who actually appreciated that the debate was civil. i'm getting a lot of that, that people are like, listen, this is the american voters won tonight because you did have a civil debate. it was substantive and there wasn't a lot of name calling. and so i do just want to acknowledge that, that that part that part was positive. i also think people have been kind of tough on koch tonight i don't think he had a great night, but substantively, since that's what people are happy about, i thought he explained his home policy. home building policy really well. vance was just blaming immigrants for everything we talked about standing up businesses. i think for a lot of african-american voters and black male voters,

this idea of entrepreneurship is important. he hit that very well, much better on gun policy when he talked about abortion, he says, pro-women pro-freedom. i thought that worked really really well. and what i loved on the immigration answer, he made a biblical reference, you know, you know, my favorite part of the bible, jesus says you're going to be judged by how you treat the least of these. the addicted, the convicted, the afflicted, the evicted. and he held that up and i thought that was a to use jd vance. favorite word, a beautiful part of the night look, i again, i think they both comported themselves very well. >> who can you see is vice president and who can you see as president of those two gentlemen up there? i think if you if you only knew the jd vance memes which most of america, that's what they've kind of gotten their, their, their opinion of him i think jd vance, you know again, ten out of ten, he comes out of here. looks like like you said a well trained, well educated, thoughtful individual, not mean spirited, somebody who would be your neighbor living in your

neighborhood. he's got kids to change his personality i don't know, i don't think he changed his personality. i think that's again, and i think that's who he is. i think he came across genuinely. you may think differently but i think a lot of americans see things differently because there are times when vance says things in front of crowds like that. dogs and cats are being eaten in springfield. >> that is exactly okay. so that's not who showed up tonight. this was an intentional strategy. >> no, he said he acknowledged that. he acknowledged the fact that he said those things and he said, hey, look, we both he said, listen, we both have said things that we disagree. we wish we didn't say. he said that when, when, when wallace said it, he goes, we both we both have those instances in washington crazy was a great line. let's go back to jake. jake all right. thank you so much. we're here in the spin room. spin closet. whatever you want to call it. it is rather cramped in here. and we're here joined by a minnesotan. right. is that how you say minnesota? >> so that is pretty much that senator amy klobuchar, who knows? >> governor tim walz, very well. you've known him for

quite some time so he really they were very nice to each other. >> minnesota. nice. and they would grant each other. oh, i'm sure you want to solve this problem, but it's donald trump or i'm sure you want to solve this problem, but it's kamala harris right approach? >> do you think? >> i think that the american people got to see two different visions very different visions. and the fact that they weren't interrupting each other as much or yelling at each other. okay we'll give it that very civil. but to me, few things really jumped out one tim's north star. he's blunt. he's plainspoken, and while jd vance kept saying, my heart goes out to you i kept thinking, but your policies are heartless because donald trump's policies are heartless. no matter how much your heart goes out, your heart may go out to a woman bleeding out in the parking lot that can't go in and get her health care that she needs. but your policies are heartless. when you overturn roe v. wade. so i thought that governor walz made the case strongly on women's

rights to make their own decisions about their health care. he made a strong case on the affordable care act that jd vance was sitting there talking about preexisting conditions and protections from losing your health care when it was, in fact, the affordable care act that have given the american people that protection. and it's donald trump trying to overturn it. so that was a major difference. and the third was, you don't think you're making the case better than governor walz did, just now. >> i, me and governor walz, governor walz, and he's going to be a great vice president. but the third part minute 90. yeah, 90. democracy, democracy and i actually thought jd vance would say well, of course, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah blah. he didn't. >> he doubled down on the donald trump. he donald trump would not admit that joe biden won that election, and jd vance didn't either. and the problem is, as the person chairing the inauguration, no matter who wins cheering january 6th, i am well aware of what's going to happen here we need people of both parties once the election

results are clear to embrace that. and no one, especially independents and moderate republicans want to put an autocrat in place that isn't even respecting the wishes of the democracy. >> well, the good news for you is that the vice president will be kamala harris. so i'm sure whatever whoever the winner is, she'll she'll honor the results. but but here's a question for you. >> um, look in, uh debate club in college, right? you grade things very specifically. that's not how vice presidential or presidential debates are vice presidential and presidential debates have a lot more to do with the feeling about the candidate whether or not you trust the candidate, whether you like the candidate, whether you agree with him on the issues that you that you're paying attention for. et cetera if one were just going by traditional debate scoring and again that's not what this is jd vance would have won the night. >> he just was more polished. he was more clean. he pivoted more effectively. et cetera again that that is that that's my opinion. just knowing something about debate teams. but that is not what this is.

do you think that jd vance is better prepared for this sort of thing because he's out there doing interviews. so much more than governor wallace i think that tim walz, that you have seen from the very beginning of this presidential campaign, when he burst on the national stage as the tim walz that you're going to get, it's someone that you can trust it's someone that's plainspoken. >> he doesn't use a lot of fancy words. he's not messing around playing games up there in the debate stage and pretending i'm all with you, with my heart. and then supports policies that have nothing to do with what you just said. he is what he is, and i think that's what's going to come across to the american people. that's what came across today. so i'm not surprised that a bunch of independents and maybe people that aren't that involved in politics, so they watch it, they think, ma, i like the guy he may not have used the exact right word here or didn't say the right thing here, but i like him and i believe in him and that's how tim walz has actually been

throughout his time. when he teacher running for congress, you know congressman in a rural district running for governor and now a governor running for the vice presidency. >> well, we're going to hear from a focus group of undecided voters in a second, and we'll hear what they have to say. >> well, what i was thinking as you were talking is that in some ways, tim walz wasn't debating to be the best. tim walz, meaning like his whole goal was about trying to promote kamala harris. and there were so many times where jd vance did what trump and vance have been doing on the campaign trail and paid ads and so forth, which is trying to define kamala harris. >> get at her on issue after issue and he didn't push back well, no, i thought i believe that he saw his job as making the case for how they could make things better for the people of america. no, he did defend her a number of times. i was looking at the numbers of who did what, and he actually

went after trump more than vance went after harris. so it was just how they were interacting. i can't really you know, judge the moments. but i can say that his job out there was to be himself, to have his north star and to show that there they have a very different vision for america. you can probably judge this moment. check that out okay. the walz's are looking at some new york pizza there. >> there they are. they're going to go get a slice. >> invite me to join them. >> they're going to get a slice. >> they know they know not to eat it with a fork and a knife. right they will not do that that's an insult. so we're watching this. >> they have pizza in minnesota, right? >> yeah. we have a lot of pizza. but you heard a lot about minnesota today. so i'm trying to, you know, turn to another. >> if you were if you were playing a drinking game and you exactly every time he said minnesota people have already, that's because that's where he's a governor. that's what he had a lot of great examples of things he got done. >> i want you you mentioned abortion and i want you to listen to what senator vance said specifically about a

friend. he told a story about a friend who needed an abortion um, listen to what he said. and i want to get your reaction. >> i grew up in a working class family in a neighborhood where i knew a lot of young women who had unplanned pregnancies and decided to terminate those pregnancies because they feel like they didn't have any other options. and, you know i one of them is actually very dear to me and i know she's watching tonight and i love you. and she told me something a couple years ago that she felt like if she hadn't had that abortion, that it would have destroyed her life because she was in an abusive relationship. you've got to do so much better of a job at earning the american people's trust back on this issue, where they frankly just don't trust us. and i think that's one of the things that donald trump and i are endeavoring to do. i want us as a republican party to be pro-family in the fullest sense of the word you have said if you were sitting on that debate stage with him and he told that story? >> well okay. so i believe that women should have the right to

make their own decisions. and certainly if they are a victim of some kind of crime, the thought that they have to carry the baby, if that's not what they want to do, is just wrong and one of the things that bothered me is he said we need to reach out to people they their policy is really clear and people just don't agree with them. and either the people are going to vote them down or their policies are going to be in place and that means either a national abortion ban or this crazy situation that we have where a third of the women are living in states that don't even have the right to have an abortion. >> so why didn't governor walz say that? exactly? you're once again you're making the case in a way that governor walz did not. >> he made those points in different ways but i think the point is, is that this idea of jd vance trying to be so empathetic to these women when in fact we know women have died and tim walz did use those examples. >> he did they have died. >> they have bled out in parking lots they have feared

doctors are fear of being criminally prosecuted. he made that point. >> well sure. patchwork of laws them going across state lines to try to get their health care. kids that are victims of incest. he made that point too maybe he just made it in a different way. and it wasn't your typical debate back and forth away. it's just not him. he was just making the points in his dad and plaid way, and i think people are listening. they thought and i saw some numbers on this when they heard the debate on abortion. they agreed with tim walz and he just says it in a different way. but did that make me mad when jd vance said that i was furious because i thought, don't act like you're so empathetic to these people when you're not putting in place policies, let them make their own decisions about their lives can i just quickly go back to that? you said minute 90, which is when they were talking about democracy, you know, whether or not the senator would support the idea of accepting the

results no matter what and whether donald trump should what jd vance said in his first answer was well, it was a peaceful transition of power on january 20th. >> so and i know but but and so i understand that governor walz was prepared for the democracy answer but not turning to him and saying i'm sorry, what about january 6th? >> okay again, he said it in a different way. i think we all remember he talked about all the police officers that had been beaten up, that were injured he talked about what an assault it was on our democracy. i may be visceral about it because i was there at 330 in the morning. jake and i followed that path. we took um, later we went back over it with mike pence. i was there with mike pence. i was there with roy blunt. the three of us were the ones at 330 in the morning with those young women holding those mahogany boxes with the rest of america's electoral ballots that walk past that broken glass and spray painted

pillars. so it's something i will never forget. we said democracy will prevail and what jd vance said in this debate debate tonight was, no, it won't in minute 90 he's like, well, it was fine. it eventually was fine. it was only fine because people stood up and it wasn't donald trump. he's the one that encouraged the insurrectionists to come to stage that assault on the capitol. the senior senator from the land of 10,000 lakes, senator amy klobuchar thanks so much, anderson. thanks, jake. thanks very much. i actually want to play some of that exchange about january 6th. let's watch. >> i would just ask that did he lose the 2020 election? >> tim, i'm focused on the future. did kamala harris censor americans from speaking their mind in the wake of the 2020 covid situation that is. that is a non-answer has she? it's a non-answer for you to not talk about censorship. obviously, donald trump and i think that there were problems in 2020. we've talked about it i'm happy to talk about it further. i'm pretty shocked by this. he lost the election this

is not a debate. where is the firewall with donald trump? >> where is the firewall? if he knows he could do anything, including taking an election and his vice president is not going to stand to it. i think you've got a really clear choice on this election of who's going to honor that democracy and who's going to honor donald trump. >> that was, again, that happened really among the last of the questions. do you think that was probably one of his most powerful moments? >> oh, there's no question about it. and it was made more powerful when he turned to vance and said, did he did did he lose the election? and vance wouldn't answer the question. i thought that was so that was, you know, i mean, look, i agree with you. there were the tiananmen square answer. would have been best delivered in chinese for as understandable as it wasn't the first answer was on on the middle east was he was nervous and it showed

but on on this on health care, on abortion rights. you know, i mean, we can all, all of us old debaters can pick apart his, you know his technique. but i think he got the message across and people heard it. so you know, i think that this i think vance was by far the more polished performer but in some ways maybe being too polished is a problem as well. i think wallace came across as very genuine and on that issue, i think there are a lot of people who feel strongly and clearly clearly, clearly jd vance did not want to answer the question so if there's one and it didn't get pushed, he didn't press him on it. >> i mean, he asked him one more time. he didn't keep pressing him on it. i think, um, you know, jd vance gave a great debate answer, right? and said, hey, listen, you know, i'm talking about the future here. we're talking what about the biden-harris

administration's censoring of facebook and, you know, the search engines and all these things? >> and he got spanked. no, no, he said, well, he goes, i don't work for facebook, right but he vance could have said, but you know, but you're but your boss, you know, your future boss was one of the people who was doing the censoring right. so i agree with ax in that it was the it was the least strong moment for jd vance the entire night. and so it was it's the one place he did stumble where i think he should have given an answer. america deserves an answer. do you believe that he did it or not? >> moderator should have pressed him on it, too. >> if there's a moment from tonight that turns into an ad that's effective, i think it's that january 6th moment. and i think if we take we know that listen, democracy is not one usually one of the top five issues. it's the border, it's the economy, it's inflation. but we do know from the 2022 midterms that people are sick and tired of people lying about elections and engaging in this election denialism. it is just not popular with the public. they see it as dishonest. that's something that i actually think is a moment that's very definitive another thing is uh, amber thurman's name is is trending there's

something going on, i think, with women in this debate and the, the answers on abortion, the lie about the abortion ban. >> jd vance has been in favor of an abortion ban, a jd vance pants on fire is so. so there are things that are happening out there. i think people are glad there was a civil debate. but for the for the movable voters, the people who you're trying to figure out where the suburban women are going to go, i think the gun answer that i think that coach gave and and the answer on abortion, i think helped him. >> but if you're looking for if you're looking for a republican with horns on tonight, if you tuned in to see jd vance with the horns on that was not that was not the guy you saw tonight. so he changed personalities, change personality. let's go to daniel dale, fact checker. daniel, what stood out to you? >> i think what most struck me anderson, was significant revision revision. excuse me. revisionist history from senator vance on the subject of obamacare and january 6th. but i was also struck by the fact that we had a false claim from each candidate on the subject of reproductive rights. so first, let's listen to something that governor wall said about the conservative heritage foundation think tanks

initiative, known as project 2025. >> their project 2025 is going to have a registry of pregnancies. it's going to make it more difficult, if not impossible, to get contraception and limit access. if not, eliminate access to infertility treatments this claim, which governor walz has made before, is false. >> project 2025 900 page policy document is online. you can read it. i've read it nothing in it proposes to make anyone register their pregnancy with the government. what project 2025 does propose is that the federal government takes steps to make sure it is getting from every state detailed after the fact anonymous data on abortion and miscarriage. the federal government already gets this data from almost every state on a voluntary basis. project 2025 wants to make it mandatory for all states, but there's no pregnancy registration involved in this data collection today. project 2025 doesn't propose to change that, and in fact, tim walz own state of minnesota already posts details after the

fact. anonymous abortion and miscarriage data online on the state health department website. there is no pregnancy registration in minnesota, of course, and i should also note that while the governor referred to their project 2025, it is not an initiative of the trump-vance campaign itself though it is of course, also true that trump and vance have extensive and close ties to it. now, i want to look at a claim that senator vance made on his past position on abortion why have you changed your position? well, norah, first of all, i never supported a national ban. i did when i was running for senate in 2022. talk about setting some minimum national standard this is false before senator vance joined the trump campaign and fell behind trump's professed desire for a state by state approach to abortion, vance did support a national abortion ban in 2022, when he ran for the u.s. >> senate, he said in an interview. and this is a direct quote i certainly would like abortion to be illegal nationally. no caveats there. he added that he was, quote sympathetic to the view that a national ban was necessary to

stop women from traveling across state lines to obtain abortions and he also said in his website during that senate campaign that he was, quote, 100% pro-life, end quote, and that he favored eliminating abortion these categorical words were on his website until trump chose him as his running mate. they certainly included no caveats about opposing a federal legislation. and then in the senate as recently as late last year, he explicitly pushed a national ban as early as 15 weeks gestation as a debate moderator said to him, he can try to spin that as just a standard, but it's not like a goal or a target. that was federal legislation or the idea of it at least, that would have banned abortion at 15 weeks. and again, he was even more categorical. anderson before he was elected daniel dale, thank you very much. >> we're about to get the first reaction from voters to the walz-vance debate, our focus group of undecided voters in michigan, which is going to weigh in. plus, we're awaiting results from our instant poll of debate watchers. that's all ahead. stay with us i've been saying publicly what

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from new york where senator jd vance and governor tim walz just wrapped up their presidential debate, a stark contrast from what we saw last month when kamala harris and donald trump faced off in a rather contentious exchange. both men tonight mostly focused their criticism on the top of the ticket rather than each other. they seemed agreeable and likable. they seem to be trying to be agreeable and likable. how did those strategies play with the undecided voters that they are trying to get? let's check in check in with our focus group in battleground michigan, where our phil mattingly is standing by. phil, what did your seven undecided voters think well, jake they definitely agreed there was a stark contrast in terms of tone. >> i'll get into that in a minute. but with our seven voters here undecided voters, at least that's what they tell us in the past, they voted for democrats and republicans. they were watching intently, taking copious notes throughout the course of the debate. and i actually want to start with overall impressions, guys

because all seven of you came in undecided. one of you said they've made up their mind. ryan, who do you who are you going to vote for and what kind of solidified that opinion? >> well, i'm going to be voting for kamala harris. you know, one of the stark sort of aspects of that debate that really stuck with me was when they were talking about january 6th and how mike pence certified the election, and they were wondering if jd vance would certify the election should trump lose. and, you know, jd vance didn't really give us a definitive answer and i am disappointed in that fact. and i don't think that i can trust someone, you know, with my vote, if they're not going to respect it. >> so six of you still remain undecided. about 35 days until the election. we're going to dig in on some issues in a moment. and your reactions to those issues. but first, i want to talk about what jake tapper was just talking about in terms of the tone. everybody seems to agree this was not a debate like we've seen much of over the course of the last eight years, at least. i think you said warm and fuzzy was what came to mind for you. what did

you see tonight? >> i haven't seen a debate like this in a very long time. i'm sorry i haven't seen a debate like time. they supported each other they were kind, and it was warm and fuzzy. i mean, you could watch it and not be offended by the words they were using towards each other. >> and i think to that point, one of the striking things when we were looking at the data in terms of your guys responses is your favorability for both candidates, regardless of how you viewed them coming into the night, went up significantly. janice why so mainly, i think just the way that they did a debate like like it just mainly that they did an actual debate in front of me there was not much fear. >> there was not much hesitancy. they showed their characters to each other in a way, um, and as was mentioned, they kind of supported each other as they're going within debate and not attacking each

other personally but more of the policies and then what they stand for. >> so let's talk about some of those policies. one of the things that we heard was a discussion about expertise and taxes in particular. this was from governor wallace. take a listen be president, you don't have all the answers donald trump believes he does. >> my pro tip of the day is this if you need heart surgery, listen to the people at the mayo clinic in rochester, minnesota, not donald trump. and the same thing goes with this. and i ask you out there, teachers nurses, truck drivers or whatever, how is it fair that you're paying your taxes every year? and donald trump hasn't paid any federal tax in the last 15 years. and the last year, as president. that's what's wrong with the system there's a way around it. and he's bragged about that. we're just asking for fairness in it. and that's all you want we've talked about how each of these undecided voters had dials throughout the course of the 90 minute debate. >> what you saw on the bottom of your screen there, those

lines, pink lines for the female undecided voters, blue lines for the male undecided voters. you saw the movement based on that response. i want to grab the mic from you real quick. >> richard, what did you see in terms of in that moment, what you were thinking, for which particular issue on the tim walz thought the governor walz sound on expertise, taxes kind of how he was presenting that case? >> well, it is very important that we have expertise when making these decisions in policy right. and so him bringing, bringing um, the specifics to say that we need the expertise, um making these decisions, i believe that was very important and that in that in turn made me you know, turn my favorability towards him. >> yeah having a positive reaction. there was another moment i think, for senator vance that got a very positive response. and that was on the issue of abortion. take a listen

republican party to be pro-family in the fullest sense of the word. >> i want us to support fertility treatments. i want us to make it easier for moms to afford to have babies. i want it to make it easier for young families to afford a home so they can afford a place to raise that family, and i think there's so much that we can do on the public policy front just to give women more options now, karen, this has obviously been a throughout the course of the last several months. >> you're expecting congratulations, by the way. that's >> what did you hear in that comment from senator vance personally, i believe that on the republican side, it sounded very progressive more so than i expected. >> tonight just saying that they should have a choice was a complete different response than i was expecting again. >> so hearing that coming from the vice president well potential um, was encouraging

all right. >> so that's where we are right now. we'll have a little bit more later on. jake, back to you all right phil mattingly, thanks so much. >> let's go over to kaitlan collins right now. caitlin thanks, jake. >> i'm here in the spin room with donald trump jr.. you picked urged your dad to pick jd vance as his running mate famously a few months ago. how do you think he did tonight? >> i thought it was a masterclass it was just an incredible performance, just real command of the facts. didn't let sort of the fake fact check, you know, try to steamroll him he came back with actual facts i think he literally won every issue across the board. i think he was actually very comfortable in so many of the issues that republicans tend to fail. he was probably more comfortable in those issues than most republicans are, even on our strong points. so i think it was an incredible debate. >> do you think he was more comfortable in those issues than your dad was in the last debate? >> well you know, i don't think it wasn't necessarily a three on one debate. it started that way. i think jd vance shut that down and there were rules and we said they should be enforced. those rules were not enforced. with my father. i think what what happened in his debate was absolutely

disgusting. and i think the american people witnessed that. i think they saw the bias that's out there in the media. i think they see that we are literally up against a trillion dollars of mainstream media. you're up against $1 trillion of big tech functioning as the marketing department for the other side. but the reality is caitlin, the world is watching what's going on right now. they see it when they go to the grocery stores on a daily basis they watch iran not through proxies but directly attacking israel. right now, we could be on the brink of world war three. you notice how those things didn't happen under donald trump. you may not like everything that he says. you may not always like his demeanor, but the dictators of the world understood strength. they understood the resolve that we saw after he got shot in the face. coming back to fight. and they didn't trifle with that we've been leading with incompetence and weakness for four years. the world has watched and they've capitalized on that. our enemies, iran wants kamala harris to be president. they've said that they've leaked documents to her, stolen from our campaign, that they hacked. russia has said they want kamala harris to be president because a weak

america is good for russia. a weak america is good for iran, and a weak america is great for china, all of whom are chomping at the bit for a harris-walz administration and the continuation of the biden policies that have failed america for the last three and a half years. >> and i should note, when you talk about iran, i mean, iran did hit american troops when your dad was in office. i covered that, and today he was asked about that. he likened the traumatic brain injuries to headaches. but but on the debate itself, it was very civil. i mean, they acknowledged when they when they agreed they gave each other the benefit of the doubt of the doubt. should we see more of that on the debate stage when your dad's up there? >> you know what? i'd love to see that across the board. sometimes the political climate isn't that much. we've all heard about trump derangement syndrome. we've seen what they've lied about. my family, you know, i was an agent of russia, but hunter biden's laptop was totally russian disinformation. turns out the opposite was true. you know, the media did that they created so much of that environment. the media has radicalized the people that are trying to kill my father. i've had to deal with that twice now. in the last two months, i've had to have that conversation with my

five young children twice in the last two months about someone trying to shoot their grandfather. you know that didn't just magically happen. that's not him that's a media created fake russia scenario. they ran with it for years even when it was disproven, they still ran with it. you know, that environment wasn't just created by donald trump. >> okay, but but can i say you can't blame and no one wants. everyone wants your dad to be safe. no one wants the threats against his life to happen. but you can't blame the media for for those threats. there's been no evidence. that's what drove those and allows people to have a platform to call someone literally hitler every day for nine years. it creates it whether you want to believe it or not. that's a fact. >> but as you know, jd vance, once likened your dad to hitler as well. he questioned if he was america's hitler. but i want to talk about the debate. do you want your dad to do another debate after seeing tonight? you know i don't think he can have a chance at getting a fair debate. i don't think there's moderators out there that would do that i think they're probably fox moderators that are so worried about even trying to appease the left that they'd actually maybe even your dad said cnn gave him a fair debate. well, he offered to do the fox debate. just so we're clear, my father weeks

ago said i'll do a fox debate to kamala harris turned that down because she can only go in like she can only do an interview with a sidekick like tim walz on her side. she can only do it when she knows she's going to have that upper hand. so i don't think in this environment you can do it. the reality is this what's unique about this election is you had four years under trump. you had four years under harris. biden. we know the policies are going to be the same because she cut and paste them onto her web page and didn't even change the source code. so you can have more of the last four years, or we can go back to a time of peace and prosperity. it's a very simple choice. people can go into a grocery store today. are you better off now than you were four years ago? and the answer is no. >> on your argument about your dad doing another debate, obviously he has said right now that he thinks another debate would be too late, but but is he letting jd vance his running mate? it would be his vice president have the last word in that case? are you okay with that i'm fine with it. >> i mean, i think they get along great. i think again, jd's debate performance tonight totally speaks for itself. uh, the reality is

this. i mean, i commented on twitter, i'm watching tim walters, listening to jd. i think he's voting for us. i mean, he was nodding along in agreement on all of the things that jd was saying because he actually spoke with facts. he called out all of the nonsense and i think it was an absolute masterclass performance and vance said he agreed with governor walz on some things as well. >> donald trump jr., thank you for your time tonight jake. back to you eric. >> trump well, that was a lot coming up. >> the first results from cnn's instant poll of debate watchers who came out on top. do they think much more of our special coverage right after a quick break this election? >> stay with cnn with more reporters on the ground and the best political team in the business, follow the candidates. follow the voters. follow the facts. follow cnn the pope is dead. >> the throne is vacant. >> we're about to choose the most famous man in the world another cardinal

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easy. get started today at customink.com. >> have i got news for you? saturday at nine on cnn welcome back to our special coverage of the vice presidential debate between governor tim walz and senator jd vance, which just wrapped up a short time ago here in new york, new york, the city. >> so nice. they named it twice. we're getting reaction right now from both campaigns. after the mostly civil shutdown showdown. let's go to cnn's kristen home. she covers the trump-vance campaign. kristen, what kind of reaction are you picking up after the debate? >> well, jake, this is very different from the kind of reaction we heard after donald trump's debate against kamala harris. a lot of celebration. now, the former president himself watched the debate and the coverage on the way down to

texas. he's going down there for a fundraiser tomorrow. he was privately praising vance he was publicly slamming tim walz. and i've talked to a number of his advisers who were celebrating. they believe that vance came out on top. and again, as i said, this is very different from what we saw in the aftermath of the kamala harris and donald trump debate, in which his aides were largely silent. they were trying to placate donald trump and many of them were concerned that his performance was going to affect him in november. now overall, when you talk to allies and advisers from the former president, they don't really believe that this vance debate is going to move the needle at all when it comes to november, but they're pretty pleased that they don't feel like they're going to have to spend the next week playing cleanup around jd vance's performance jake kristen interesting little side note at 10:02 p.m. >> eastern time donald trump this is in the middle of the debate, tweeted about the death of baseball great pete rose. >> um i'm not really sure why

and i'm not really sure what that indicates about the debate. any thoughts look, i think that there was a lot of attention on jd vance and i think that donald trump always likes to seize the media narrative. >> who knows if that had anything to do with it? but he was by the end of it, praising jd vance but yes, it was a notable moment in which he completely went off script particularly given the fact that this was not something that happened during the debate. but sometime earlier. so there was really no reason for it. but obviously again, donald trump likes to be in control of the media narrative. there was a lot of praise going on, at least from republicans, when it came to jd vance his performance at that time yeah interesting. >> all right. kristen holmes, thanks. so much. let's go over to mj lee. mj how is the harris-walz camp viewing this debate tonight, the harris campaign was consistently lowering expectations, predicting that at least stylistically, jd vance could do quite well.

>> but after the debate, i think crusades are not denying that he did appear polished and practiced, but they do insist that on substance, governor wallace outperformed the senator on a number of issues. you know, they were particularly pleased that there was so much focus throughout the evening on donald trump and his record, his past statements his proposals on a number of different things, particularly on issues like immigration, reproductive rights and the 2020 election results and remember, heading into this evening, one of the most important goals for tim walz was really to paint a stark, a picture difference in the difference difference between the harris-walz vision and what donald trump and vance are proposing and the campaign does believe that that was on clear display. and you'll see that the governor moments ago was speaking to reporters and he said, quote, i think it was a good debate. and specifically, he said, we got to see a contrast. and i think the ending sums it up, that jake is

clearly a reference to when vance wouldn't answer the question of whether donald trump lost the 2020 election as one campaign aide put it to me they saw this as the moment of the night. >> jake well, i'm sure they hope that it's going to be the moment of the night. >> mj lee, thank you so much. appreciate it. let's talk more about the moment of the night. if the democrats get their druthers which senator klobuchar referred to as the moment in minute 90 when governor wallace had a great answer about the democracy. we have some reaction from one of the voters in the focus group in battleground michigan about that moment. let's take a look. >> well, i'm going to be voting for kamala harris. you know, one of the stark sort of aspects of that debate that really stuck with me was when they were talking about january 6th and how mike pence certified the election and they were wondering if jd vance would certify the election should trump lose and, you

know, jd vance didn't really give us a definitive answer and i i'm disappointed in that fact, and i don't think that i can trust someone. you know with my vote, if they're not going to respect it so these are undecided voters and who knows what's going to motivate them for that? >> one person. and we shouldn't over overstate the importance of one voter and one focus group. that was it. minute 90. even if even if theoretically, jd vance won the 89 previous minutes, that one minute meant a lot. yeah which could speak to the even though a lot of voters don't put democracy or issues around that at the top of the list, they certainly say economy and everything else is far behind. it's certainly on the on on the minds of voters i will say that listening to that as that was happening live on cnn, i was getting a text from a republican congressman

saying, first of all, i'm not sure that this guy was totally undecided before, but you know, we don't know that. he said he was i think i heard from him, too, but i think i know what you're talking about. anyway. keep going. >> but but that, you know, saying that that republicans are trying to keep their eye on the ball, which is the economy, the economy, the economy, and that perhaps, um from their perspective, governor walz didn't prosecute the case on the economy as well. >> oh, i heard from a different congressman different different guys trying to out herself. >> no, no no, no. >> well some people text us both because we're co-hosts on sunday. >> you know, i that moment i think was embarrassing, first of all, for jd vance and i, that went a long way minutes of vance. really trying to seem a lot more likable, seem a lot more straightforward a lot more relatable in that moment. he seemed like a politician, like a politician who wanted to do one thing, which is to please donald trump and that's why democrats liked

it so much. i was walking around the room while you all were talking to senator klobuchar talking to a lot of democrats that was their top moment in their doing dial testing to just like we are with our focus group. that was their top moment. one of the other ones was on immigration talking about donald trump. uh torpedoing that border bill. and of course, on abortion. so they're looking at the landscape of what tim walz was able to do. their high water marks. and i think those were it. and particularly this january 6th moment, really helped them undo a little bit of some of what jd vance had been trying to do for the previous hour. and a half, which is to rehab his own image. i mean, jd vance, as we talked about earlier, is not a very popular running mate for donald trump. and he had to fix that tonight. >> there was one other moment in the cnn focus group that i thought was absolutely stunning and telling, which is the woman that phil talked to who was

pregnant, which is not relevant to this answer, but i thought she said that's how you'll remember who i'm talking about. um, said that she was surprised to hear jd vance speak so compassionately on the issue of abortion, and that made her think differently about him and that's the point that senator klobuchar was making here. is that, yes, that is how he spoke that is not what the policies are. >> she was quite she was quite angry about it. >> and that went just it just went out there and it went out there unanswered and unremarkable, unremarked about and unrefuted. yeah. which led to an undecided voter going oh, and maybe, maybe that's not. maybe the positions aren't what i thought they were on abortion. >> she seemed to think that maybe there was some wiggle room in terms of how much that jd vance opposes abortion. >> let's be clear. there's not. >> support has supported donald trump has a different position, but jd vance in the past has

supported a national even though donald even though donald trump has a different position. um, donald trump is very much i mean, if you look at what he's saying right now, the states will decide well, a lot of states are deciding that there is absolutely no room for any abortion, even if somebody is in trouble medically. >> so if democrats have their way. uh, jd vance's answer on january 6th is refusal to acknowledge that joe biden won in 2020. >> his refusal to believe in the peaceful transfer of power and his refusal to be honest about what happened on january sixth. um, that will be the moment of the debate that was probably vance's worst moment in the debate. i would say here is governor wallace, perhaps one of perhaps his worst moment in the debate. he was being asked about some embellishments, aka lies, that he has told about where he was during the incident in tiananmen square. he's i think he said he was in hong kong

when that incident happened and he was not. he said that he's been to china 30 times. it's probably more like 15. we know this about governor wallace now. he has a history of embellishing he was asked about it by the oh, we're not going to toss to the town okay. anyway. and he kind of fumbled around about it. what did you think? >> well, first of all, that was cave. that was our cave reporting. i believe that that first reported this what i think isn't as relevant as what i was hearing from democrats who were who were kind of doing whatever you do to cringe over a text. they were not thrilled to answer. >> it was very cringey. i mean, and he should have known that it was coming. >> all right. stay with us. as we are about to get the first results from our instant poll of debate watchers, their views on who won, who lost that's next

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>> welcome back. it is about midnight here in new york city. we're breaking down the substance and the surprises and the first and only vice presidential debate of 2024, it began with a traditional handshake between republican senator jd vance of ohio and democratic governor tim walz of minnesota the debate went on to be mostly civil, especially given the history of attacks in his campaigns that are vance and governor walz, very sharp contrasts on policy while repeatedly shifting the focus the candidates at the top of their tickets, donald trump and kamala harris. take a listen to it to walz and vance's. they saved their sharpest lines for the presidential nominee of the other party on issue after issue fundamental here is that steady leadership is going to matter. it's clear in the world sought on that debate stage a few weeks ago, a nearly 80-year-old donald trump talking about crowd sizes. >> when did i ran and hamas and their proxies attack israel? it was during the administration of kamala harris center, vance that's said that there's a climate problem in the past,

donald trump called it a hoax and we have a historic immigration crisis because kamala harris started and said that she wanted to undo all of donald trump's border policies. how is it fair that you're paying your taxes every year? and donald trump hasn't paid any federal tax. ten the last 15 years, kamala harris has already done on it because she's been the vice president for three-and-a-half years. she had the opportunity to enact all of these great policies. and what she's actually done instead is drive the cost of food higher by 25% when donald trump said i've got a concept of a plant, it cracked me up as a fourth-grade teacher because my kids would have never given me he that honestly, tim, i think he got a tough job here because you've got to play whack-a-mole. you've got to pretend that donald trump didn't deliver rising take-home pay, which of course he did. you've got to pretend that donald trump didn't deliver lower inflation, which of course he did. and then you simultaneously got to defend kamala harris is atrocious economic record well, this hour we're getting more reaction to this debate from our team of

political watchers as well as from voters right now we have the first results from our instant poll of debate watchers, in giant numbers. david yeah, note at the top, this is not a poll of registered voters are likely voters over for all this is a poll of registered voters who watched the debate. so i just want to make clear that it's about a third democrat, third republican, third independent in our sample overall, about five percentage points more democratic than a poll of registered voters nationwide would be. so keep that in mind as we look at these results of debate watchers, first foremost, who won the debate? it was basically an even split 51% of debate watchers say vance won 49% say walz one. >> what about expectations? >> versus reality? so who did you think was going to win the debate before the debate, 45% said vance would win 54% said

walz, and you see it ended up 51% to 49%. so vance bested expectations walz underperformed expectations of this group of debate watchers going into the debate. and i just want to show you how this scorecard stacks up to recent vice presidential debates. you see here it looks more in the realm of 2016 and 2012, this was not an outsized, lopsided victory. the way we saw in 2020 or 2008 roughly even here in how the debate watchers in this poll saw this debate tonight, anderson telling interesting to see back here with the team in new york, scott jennings, ashley allison, what do you think what stood out to you? we haven't heard from you tonight? >> yeah. >> i the thing that stood out to me the most and that i've been seeing and my twitter feed and my group chats is that jd vance says, hey, you weren't going to fact check me. you weren't going to call me out that i'm lying to the american people and i thought that was interesting because a lot of

what jd jd vance had a good performance tonight, but a lot of what he said is not actually what the american people really were thinking or what are his actual policies are and so i think that because he presented himself in such a compelling way, that's why he outperformed the expectations from our snap poll. the american people thought but he was going to come out and talk about cats and dogs like his running mate did, but he didn't do that. he presented himself like he has a reasonable position on abortion, and so he favored better, i think on the other side of the debate from our folks who watch his performance got, were you surprised by the polar sort of seems sort of evenly slightly democratic sample. i mean, it's pretty clear. vance outclass wall tonight. i mean, i was watching this and all i could think of was man walz's so in over his head i mean, can you imagine this guy sitting in the white house situation room with that facial expression. there's like 50% sheer terror and 50% extreme bafflement mean it was amazing the split-screen

difference between a competent vance and a totally in over his head, walz? the answer answer on why he lied about his trips to china and the tiananmen square thing it was probably the worst vp debate meltdown since stockdale and 92 who am i and why am i here? it was two-and-a-half minutes of absolute terrible for vance night of redemption all the political media has told us that vance was a terrible pick and walz was going to bring in all these voters that charade is now over. walz does not belong at this level of american politics. vance does final verdict tim walz wandered into the wrong bar tonight we missed you, scott you got it. >> has been on the bullpens. i think. >> i got to get warm say it's got you've had some time to know about several hours. there was screen effect. i agree with you, but it was the split-screen between the jd vance, who's out there on the stump? and the jd vance who's on the debate stage and he put

on a great performance tonight. i think he was a very, very good, he came out there. he wanted to be reasonable. he wanted to be cordial. he wanted all of the sort of acid lines that he delivers on the road. he didn't deliver and he probably profited from that. you said and i agree. if you were here earlier, i said if i were if i were walz, i would have delivered that line about tiananmen square, that answer in chinese and it would have been more understandable than the one he gave. but when you look at a dial group of this debate, the things that did the worst, scott were two things, his january 6 answer worse than anybody, and his abortion and saying he never supported a national abortion ban because people know that's not true. so that was one place where he couldn't do the split screen effectively because people knew too much. >> they listen do i think josh shapiro maybe would have been a

more formidable opponent up there were jd vance? absolutely. that's just simply a fact. it took walz a while to get his footing in this debate. but what i think actually both walton vance did incredibly effectively think that's why you see this basically split down the middle, is they talked about their personal stories, their humble beginnings, and then use that to say, we understand your struggles and we're going to have solutions to solve them. and it just brings us back to where we started here, which is this is a hyper close race by the hair, harris is going to be decided in this is not going to move the needle, don't you think? >> on these vp debates though there's two issues does this person look like they're capable of stepping into the job? walz totally failed on that. vance rose to the occasion. the other thing is, people are evaluating trump and harris on their choices. and up until now, we've been told what a terrible choice trump made and what a inspired choice harris made. and now the veil is off the charade is over and i think it calls into question i mean, she's got to staff the whole government. this was her first choice.

>> i mean, i hear you're talking point about he you're not attacking him and he's not a good governor. you're saying that he does airable government that looks it doesn't look the part look the vice president, it'll be like people have said it's a do-no-harm. tim walz did not do harm tonight, also, at the end of like when we started really talking about domestic policies abortion, jd vance's answers were empty. they're all we have to do better. we had he didn't tell actually what his policy was. he says that like our party is not doing well on this issue and rather than saying like we need a change our policy, you just went in circles and then tim walz came back and actually said what the overwhelming majority of people actually want the abortion policy to be is to restore roe. yes. that is why and jd vance and state my home state, jd vance's the overwhelming population of ohio, voted against dances he mentioned it, but then it didn't say what his position would be. he said they don't like what i believe, but i'm not going to tell you what i believe two things on abortion

was totally lied about the the post-abortion infant bill, a totally lied about that. number two, he totally sidestepped. it is true. he totally sidestepped the question about what restrictions do you prefer? just like here, i mean, he essentially ratified the position which is no restrictions. i thought vance talked about the issue with some compassion, any acknowledged the political reality in ohio? >> what you just brought up ai country, i couldn't believe it. >> he was a masterful pivot by vance. he i think he won the exchange on this abortion thing because i do not think that's what the minnesota lawsuits i wish that republicans would stop saying, oh, they're allowing babies to be killed once they're born. >> why not talk about the fact which is actually a valid point. babies are now being resuscitated 23 weeks, they've lived in the nicu at that point. that's where you could start the conversation if you want some restrictions on abortion, i feel like jd vance is actually right to say republicans are completely in the wrong space around the issue of reproductive rights. but he didn't offer the right solution or even identify what it showed solicitude for the for the victims of policies

that he supports that there's so give him credit for solicitude what the policies maybe now i just had this thig in minnesota. there were eight deaths among infants who survived abortion attempts during tim walz, his tenure as governor, it happened, they don't want to talk about the fact that it happened but there were children let me ask you a question since you've deeply researched this, what were the condition of these of these, of these of these babies when they were born. >> why can't what are, what, what was the participation of the morning? >> and they survived the abortion do you think that families casually tossed them aside? >> no. i tell me what they're conditioned was. could they have survived that there wasn't a case of families by not wanting children to suffer who were when they were told that they are doomed? >> yes. >> is that the reality that to me is what? i will say, keep talking about that because when you all talk about abortion

like this, it is when women and that gender gap come, continues to divide, not in your favor, because women, it is disrespectful to pretend like women are making choices about abortion that is the intent to just let a baby die at nine months. let me finish it here. it is dishonest for jd vance to go up there and try and push that narrative. and that's what i'm saying when he said he presented well, but his policies and what he was saying was not truthful. it just wasn't. and that is why the overwhelming american people since roe has been overturned. you guys are not winning you're not winning and if you run on this issue, you will not win in november, they're not running on this issue. >> they're running they're running on. it's up to the states and they're running on donald trump's moderate position of some reasonable restrictions. >> rape, incest, and life. >> here says idf say about this you are one of your frequent go-to points is kamala harris said this in 2019 that's her

position. donald trump said, women should be punished if they had an abortion. why should we hold him to that? you talk about his moderate position. his moderate position has been adopted over the course of this campaign for purposes of this campaign, after he put the justices on the supreme court who overturned roe, who've created a crisis for women who live in 20 states in this country. >> his position is moderate and it is in line with what i think most americans believe him when he said, when he said that women can i think harris and walz have proven they cannot discuss even a single restriction that they want. >> you you believe when he said women should be punished, did you do believe i don't believe and know once you believe you, but he said it, leave him when he said it and at the time it was roundly criticized by other republicans. did you believe him when he said, i can tell you what republicans believe, which is i'm just asking you what trump billy i'm telling you what he's running on right now. i know that he's running on right i know. you're not

running on it because i actually i wouldn't say it if i didn't if i couldn't articulate a single restriction, i would attack trump. >> what kamala harris and tim walz believes is that it's none of your business. what women do with their body and so stay off our doctors offices stay out of our bedroom, i guess i'll have to speak up for the babies are not here to speak for themselves. lord, have mercy. >> let's check back in with jake in dc. jake anderson, lord, have mercy we are going to talk a little bit more about the poll, the snap poll 51 to 49%, 51% vance won 49%, walz won. that's two points difference with a margin of error, five points. so basically a statistic it's a gold tie i'm still stuck on you quoting uncle jesse from full house. know, i was quoting quoting oh scott jennings a full house. but just ahead, more debate reaction. we are getting some additional results from our cnn incident, paul

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ot for free and gets 6 million coy opponents make every day oh, winning. car winning is everything's stupid saturday at seven on cnn getting lots of reaction to the vice presidential debate after tim walz and jd vance squared off for the first and only time of the 2024 campaign. right now we want to get some more results from our instant poll of debate watchers, cnn political director david chalian is back with us. david, give us the latest numbers. >> well, one of the things that we talked about going into the debate is, were they going to try to enhance their favorable numbers? are they going to just try to bring up the negatives of their opponents, right? that

was one of the things we're watching for. take a look here. we ask people whether they have a favorable view of the cabinet are not before the debate. walz was at a plus 14. so if you take his favorable minus his unfavorable, he was at a positive 14 after the debate. he's at plus 37. and look at advance. he did a ton of progress on his favorable ratings. we know he's been one of the most unpopular vice presidential picks out of the gate. but look at them good. he did himself here. he went from a -22 favorable rating before the debate with this group of debate watchers to a minus three. we also ask for each one is this person qualified to serve as president if necessary? tim walz, the governor of minnesota, before the debate, six did you percent said yes. after the debate, 65% said yes. so a slight improvement on that sort of commander in chief score same question about vance, is he qualified to serve as president if necessary, look at the good

he did here only 50% of debate watchers said yes before the debate that went up to the 8% after the raid, not as high as the walls numbers. but again, this group of debate watchers is about five percentage points more democratic overall, then overall registered voter population would be what's so it's interesting. >> it's basically, it keeps with what we kind of thought they were doing after the but it was over which was they're trying to be likable, trying to be folksy. they're trying to be agreeable. they're not trying to really attack each other all that much. and it looks like they both succeeded advance had a lot more work that needed to be done, but they both succeeded. >> they both succeed he didn't then i would just add to that it seemed like they were making a play for the middle at this debate and not just trying to drive out and throw out red meat for their basis. and that probably contributed to this as well. >> probably make sense. we also want to hear directly from some of the voters who had not yet made up their minds before watching tonight let's debate cnn's phil mattingly, who was sent to michigan battleground

michigan joining us again right now alongside his panel of undecided voters. phil, you've had a little more time to speak with these lovely seven individuals. what else are they telling you? >> yeah, jake, we're on the campus of grande valley state university, critical battleground, state of michigan. we started this night with seven undecided voters. that number is now 61 of our individuals here has decided he's going to vote for vice president kamala harris. but one of the things you guys haven't been able to see is we've really been talking about what we saw over the course of the last several flowers. and one of the issues that has had a pretty inspired debate amongst this group is about health care or some that came up during the debate we heard from governor tim walz. this is what he said about the affordable care act. but first, keep in mind what you're seeing at the bottom of the screen is lines that will tell you how people are responding. this sound in particular had a significant positive response, the pink lines are for the female voters, the blue lines are for the male voters. listen he ran on the first thing he

was going to do on day one was to repeal obamacare. >> on day one, he tried to sign an executive order to repeal the aca. he signed on onto a lawsuit to repeal the aca, but lost at the supreme court and he would have repealed the aca had it not been for the courage of john mccain to save that bill it, watch it live in real time in the bottom of your screen where he saw the pop. honest, i want to go to you because we introduced the world to your wife who is expecting last segment congratulations as well. you also just became an american citizen a few months ago. this would be the first election you're voting, but you've taught talked a lot about health care given the moment you're in your life, what do you see two main things that i really value about my family and our baby daughter that is being borne soon one is health in two

is time with health like i want to be assured that my wife and daughter are gonna be healthy and safe time. >> i would love to spend time with my daughter maybe through a medical leave but for those two, it would be really unfortunate if i can't afford it in the first place. so any kind of assistant to that and to my family and to allow me to enjoy the health of my family, as well as to spend time with my family with definitely helped me decide with my vote i hope the family knows it's a girl congratulations. >> that's awesome. they didn't that's some breaking news. i do want to step back with this group again, we noted we had seven undecided voters coming in. we have six now for the six of you who have not decided 35 days left, alex, i want to start with you. what's the main issue that you're going to be looking for to make that decision? >> absolutely. thank you. so

the biggest thing that i'm still looking at is as foreign policy and international relations, watching the debate today, it was touched on for maybe six minutes total, only on the breaking news that was happening in iran today are in israel today with iran attacking them i think that there's still so many issues at hand with international politics and seeing how are precedent are possible. president and our vice president possibility would react to those situations is extremely crucial. looking at ukraine and russia looking at china and taiwan, not just focusing on the attacks today, but we're kind of looking at an international relations as a whole is still probably one of the heaviest part of my decision what's the one issue you're keying on his last 35 days? so coming into this debate, i was definitely focused on how trustworthy are the candidates. i think that still my main issue and i thought this was a great civil debate. and like how how trust

way i think the candidates are grew for both of them in my opinion, but the one thing that stuck out to me was vance's refusal to say whether or not trump lost the 2020 election. and then also how he kind of said that carbon may not cause climate change and kind of just his refusal to agree with those things that most people very clearly see makes me think he's not as trustworthy, but i did like a lot of his other policies. >> all right. what this. was a great group democracy also the deciding factor for ryan, who did make up his mind by hang out for a couple more hours, just talk things through jake back to you thanks, phil. >> appreciate it. so that's interesting. a second member of this, again, unscientific what's still seven-person focus group of undecided vote about voters in battleground michigan. a second person really not liking jd vance's answer in which he refused to acknowledge that joe biden won the election in which he gaslit and pretended that donald trump handed over power peacefully.

and that really bothered them democrats. we should note these people are not sitting there reading in twitter. there in this focus group with phil there and kind of like femina island chambers? yeah. >> exactly you know, they don't know what's going on. they don't know how how the political world, they're not getting texts from members of congress like that. >> and i will tell you this when we were talking about this earlier, i did get a message from harris campaign the person who said that there already cutting that january 6 answer for an ad. so they has resonated it resonated in the information that they were receiving from they're surveying undecided voters to to try to see how this is landing. that was by far, i think tim walz's best moment and the worst moment for jd vance. but i think it also speaks to another aspect of this, which is that jd vance was trying to rehabilitate his own image and did so to a great degree. but that really hurt him that january 6 answer really hurting. >> so we should note, they both did themselves favors when it

came to making a good impression on viewers. waltz's favorite we're ability rating among this group of hold people polled the snap poll from 14% net approval to 37%, a net approval and jd vance went from negative 22% to negative 3%. again, he had more of a hall, but still that is progress. it's interesting also, abby, what you say because so much of what the trump and the rnc and harris and the dnc, what they are doing right now and all their surrogates in the media and such are trying to win the post-debate, forgot the debate, trying to win the post debate, finding the clips finding the bad moments for the other guy, the good moments for theirs and mostly the bad moments for the other guy. and putting it out there on social media, on tiktok in facebook ads and all sorts of places though we won't even see and that is a

battle that is going on right now. >> yeah. now it's for the people who didn't sit and watch the entire debate, which is most of the american people, a lot of people, right? >> we know painfully so that a lot of people, these days, especially younger people, get their information from the quick clips that they see online. >> but i will go back to this instapoll, the david chalian just gave us. >> again all the caveats. >> it's not registered voters, it's not likely voters, people who watched the debate were five percentage points more likely to be democrats than republicans and even that caveat, especially the fact that both candidates both of these vice presidential wannabes did so much better with the likeability factor. >> and that's not nothing in today's politics. it really isn't and i know that, you know, what we're doing is saying, well, boston, answer this or vance sort of glossed

over that but in a time when people are disgusted by politics yes. >> it wasn't exactly totally factual because of the fact that they didn't correct each other all the time but the fact that they were cordial and by the end vance was calling him tim and they've never met was calling him. >> yeah, i was just calling him vance and they shook hands and the wives came up and maybe maybe it was it was cordial and maybe it was effectively do no harm for both candidates to a degree, but i do think that jd vance had to make up some ground and clearly in our poll which showed that he did, he's still a little bit underwater. but that was mainly what he had to do tonight and it looks like just ahead, we're going to give you more of our cnn instance whole of the vice presidential debate. did this face off, do anything to change voters minds about who they would support at the top of the

ticket, stay with us election, stay with cnn with more reporters on the ground. >> and the best political team in the business, follow the candidates follow the voters follow the facts, follow. >> cnn copies me but it michaels sleep can be different you're terrifying know your tariff, know exactly. you hear the most here of what we look the same there's the night football its own lot of buzz around this one thursday night football gets a parent nfc south phones, looking to make a statement it's great for makefile in the books against

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jackpot party, a party and every spirit close captioning he's brought to you by christian faith publishing, right? for a higher purpose published with us christian faith publishing is an author friendly publisher who understands it. your labor is more than just a book color scan for your free riders guide, 800, 4, 5, 518 to seven and welcome back. >> you are watching cnn's coverage to get more reactions. it's a nice vice presidents you're in new york between governor tim walz and vance during the debate, don't trump's busy sharing his thoughts on truth, social as he is, wants to do. let's get more on that from kristen holmes. so i have not looked myself, kristen what did he post on the what was going on? >> well, anderson, one of the things that was actually probably the most notable was the fact that he finally said that he would veto a national abortion ban if he was re-elected into office. now, this is what he posted during this debate. between jd vance and tim walz, you said,

everyone knows, i would not support a federal abortion ban under any circumstances and would in fact veto it because it is up to the states to decide based on the will of their own voters. now the real point here, anderson is that not everybody knew to that because during the last debate between donald trump, robin kamala harris, he was asked repeatedly, he was pressed on the issue. would you veto this bad if it came across your desk and he refused to answer that. in fact, jd vance had said in an interview that donald trump would veto a national abortion ban if he was re-elected and when asked about that in the debate, he said he had it talk. trump said he hadn't talked to vance about it, not only that is that i don't think he was speaking for me later. vance said that he learned a lesson about speaking out ahead of donald trump. but this really comes at a time. again, when donald trump has tried to walk this fine line when it comes to abortion, he knows it's not a political winner. he doesn't want to engage on the topic, but he also wants to take full credit for the overturning of roe v. wade. one of the reasons we suspected told by some of

trump's closest allies that he wouldn't fully brace this idea of a veto was because he wanted to appeal to the right. clearly here he has moved a step further. they're saying he would in fact veto a national abortion ban if it came across his desk, anderson kristen, thanks very much right now, let's take another look at some of the results for our brand new poll of debate watchers. chalian is digging in for the numbers david wouldn't you were talking about this with jake a short time ago, you showed some really interesting numbers that basically this debate improve the favorables for both candidates and they, both candidates kind of approval went up yeah, they definitely did some good work. >> both of them did on that. take a look at some more findings from our instapoll anderson. we asked who's more in touch with people like you? 48% of debate watchers say walz thrived percent, say jd vance who shares your vision for america. another walz win here, 48% say walz, 39% say vance

this is really intriguing to me, who did a better job of defending their running mate sort of bolstering the top of the ticket well, here vance scores best 37%. say he did a better job of that, 33% said walz and 27% said both of them did a good job at that only 3% said neither of them did did the debate affect your presidential choice, right? we've talked about this a vp debate matter. well, here's your answer. only 1% said that it changed their mind. 1% of harris supporters, 1% of trump's supporters say it changed your mind. so the answer there is overwhelmingly they minds were not changed by this debate. anderson. >> all david chalian, back with the team here in new york, it is interesting to see these numbers because for all of the concerns about, well, jd vance was or walt for democrats that walz was not up to the job of debating i mean they're favorabilities both went up.

>> look, i think they both sort of play to their strength, right jd vance is a professional public personality like he he's excellent on tv shows and comfortable in an, in an arena like this, waltzes a very genuine authentic guy. and he speaks in a language and an idiom that people here i was looking at numbers from a focus group and it reflects exactly what this this was a dial, exactly what was said here and walz made more progress than vance, neither presidential candidate gain much from there performance. so professional political commentators can se, what they will, but people judge through a different lens and they see in walz kind of authenticity and genuineness and identification with them. >> do you think this changes alyssa, given know what you know, but the foreign

president, the calculus about whether there'll be another debate, presidential debate i still think there's a chance that donald trump wants to do another presidential shelby debate, even though jd vance performed well, i think he likes to have the final word. >> i think he loves a camera and he sees the benefits of getting in front of one. so if this is still neck and neck, i could absolutely see him deciding to do one this i think what this underscores is that the public is so thirsty for a little bit of civility and decency on our politics and jd vance has never made that kind of a capstone of who he is an american life. but tonight he showed a different side of him. why he can't behave this way more often is beyond me, but i think people were just happy to see handshakes introducing spouses, acknowledging each other, showing empathy, things that we really did not see in the presidential debate. and by the way, if we have another presidential debate, i don't think we're going to yes, i see it again. enjoy it while it lasted do you think? i mean, does this change doesn't i'm just glad you don't you don't think this changes the game at all? i don't think it changes the outcome of the election i

don't think but i do think it can give you some opportunity. is it's like so tim walz go out and start communicating with people having more direct conversations. i even think he should do a few more interviews with different publications, more local than don't look at me like isn't the point of doing that to get better for the debate because because i don't think these debates are determinative of voters behavior, particularly vice presidential debate i think that voters will listen, read their local newspaper. >> so if tim walz goes and has a conversation, goes to ice cream shop or a pizza shop, or wherever, and has a conversation with a local newspaper. he can get his message out there what i will say though, is that i do wish he would have pushed back a little bit more on jd vance the way kamala harris showed up and push back and knocked out donald. >> it was actually me even during the harris debate, she clearly had fought them or their team had thought about the cutaway shots of her watching because these debates are just split-screen debate. it didn't seem like there was any thought given this one for

jd vance, it seemed like there were thought giving it to him because he had the same kind of expression of sort of a slight smile, sort of listening, not really gesticulating reacting walz was just sort of turned fully looking. it was not a good look at the moderator's every time he wanted to say something. >> like, when, when i was watching it on television, it was kinda like pick me kinda teacher moment. i felt like from him, which was a little weird, but i mean, he didn't like do the jazz hands or whatever which he does it a lot of the rally that was a step in the right direction from a theatrical perspective, walz, i mean i don't understand something. why is it that he's like a serial exaggerate? or, or fabricator of his own personal narrative. he's been asked about it twice, once by dana bash, once in this debate and in both cases, he sorted, defaulted to some like in diana's case, it was i don't have good grammar tonight. i think he said well, i'm just a knucklehead why can't you just own up to it? i don't understand. i know you said you people who is authentic and

that this is just who he is, but he has clearly gone way over the line on his own personal narrative, something that only he would know the facts of. and he's done it repeatedly. when asked about it effectively, he's just like, well, i'm there's no doubt that there are places where, for example, on the gun thing i don't know whether you were here when we're talking to earlier, whether we were on the air but was he there was video at one event in which he spoke, didn't put in literature, didn't put in an ad. there's no so far as we know another example of it, he misspoke. you can call that as part of syria real exaggeration. i agree with you though, be straightforward, own up to it. but if you're going to be concerned about serial exaggeration and misstatements and biographical rewriting and so on it's really hard to sit here as an advocate for donald trump. >> you're right. >> it's somebody in the press should absolutely we spend a

lot of time focusing on donald trump and all the things he said, look, of course, of course you're right. >> but walz why is he held to a different standard? >> why why is it okay for him to just slough it off when it's not really okay for it they asked about her look, they estimate i know what you're giving him. i mean, you've gotten no one seems to care you care deeply about every time donald trump does something like this. and i'm the first one to admit that he does it, but you don't seem to care as much when i harris i'll tell you what i cared about tonight. i cared about the way jd vance presented donald trump's role relative to january 6, that was more than a slight exaggeration. that was a complete rewriting of history on something that was a heck of a lot more serious than some of the things that waltzes said. >> well, still ahead. which vice presidential candidate viewer farther from the truth tonight, we'll get a debate fact-check now

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from a backed-up god we are lacks works naturally with the water in your body to help you go for your gut and your mood will follow for eight grams of fiber, trying mirror fiber gummies this is cnn, the world's news network manhattan. >> senator jd vance and governor tim walz just wrapped up their vice presidential debate effectively getting the last word in this race for the white house before an audience. >> this law arch, unless of course donald trump and kamala harris agree to debate again before election day, fingers crossed. we've made the invitation. harris has accepted. >> tonight's debate was civil. the question of how factual it was. another matter, let's find out from our fact checker, daniel dale, what he thinks daniel, its certainly wasn't a perfect debate from governor walz, from a fact-checkers perspective, i think there was more inaccuracy from senator

vance, and i think vance had the two biggest whoppers of the night, both of them actually in what he left out rather than what he said, listen to his claims about trump's post-election behavior in 2020 and early 2021 january the sixth, the protesters ought to protest peacefully. >> and on january the 20th, what happened? joe biden became the president. donald trump left the white house. he peacefully gave over power on january the 20th this is a pretty wild rewriting of history. >> trump peacefully gave over power on january the 20th. sure. trump did not like locked himself in the oval office, but he left office after trying extremely hard to not give overpower. we all know this. he tried to manipulate everyone from the american public to state elections officials to stay legislators to the justice department, to his very own vice president, he helped trigger a deadly riot and then events at trump called for peaceful protest on january 6? yes, trump did that once in that january 6 speech after calling supporters to washington with a promise, it would be wild spending weeps,

weeks, whipping them into a frenzy with lies about the election. vice president didn't pence is non-existent power to overturn the result. and then in that same january 6 speech, using combative language, far more often than that calming language, saying things like, if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore when you catch somebody in a fraud, you're allowed to go by very different rules. you'll never take back our country with weakness on and on. now, let's turn to another egregious distortion of history from senator vance. this one on obamacare when obamacare was crushing under the weight of its own regulatory burden and health care costs, donald trump could have destroyed the program. >> instead, he worked in a bipartisan way to ensure that americans had access to affordable care casting donald trump as the savior of obamacare, i think is bananas. donald trump tried very hard to repeal obamacare. the only reason it was not repealed in 2017 was because he barely couldn't find enough republican votes in congress. and then he tried to undermine obamacare in various ways. he

cut the open enrollment period in half. he slashed funding for advertising and for people who help other americans sign up, he ended a key set of subsidies for insurers. his administration refused to defend some critical provisions of the law in court, instead arguing that they shouldn't be invalidated. i could go on. so yes, trump did keep operating the obama exchanges. he didn't completely give up on it, but casting him as the savior of obamacare. i think jake is pretty dishonest all right, daniel, thanks so much. really appreciate it. those worst some fairly stark i mean, there in politics we get used to people fibbing, embellishing those were some pretty direct black as white. day is night gaslighting examples the idea that donald trump supported a peaceful transfer of power. these idea that donald trump it tried to save obamacare. >> yeah. >> i mean, it's it's too clever by half. >> it's just straight up, not true, but that is actually what jd vance is there to do. i mean, he's there to be the

person who can do who's sort of trumpism in a way that sounds nice to more people. and is more polished and in many ways, talking to many republicans are for the last several months there a lot of republicans who make the case for trump's candidacy way better than trump himself does. trump rarely executes these arguments in ways that are coherent. and vance has been really the only person out there doing it for him tonight. he did it. >> i look i think that they both ended up net positive at the end of this but there were some key moments there that i think walz sort of let slide and allowed vance to improve his reputation with voters just so our viewers. i just want to make sure that people understand triumph. triumph, want to come. we're live on cnn boy, trial, almost 1:00 a.m. mimo, this is triumph, the insult comic. >> roberts, my goals brainchild

and was floating around behind and i just wanted to make sure people understood so people aren't it's me, jd's mimo and so i don't know that you're mike drop he is my alright i miked and you're starting out. we're not we're not going to make front of duty. vance's grandmother, but we do appreciate the comedy, comedy artistry of robert smikle and triumph. thank her. how about the holster and the i'm here to spin jd vance, so good to see you. thank you backed the take back did the topic at hand he jd vance is doing what donald trump wants him to do, what the campaign wants him to do. >> and when you heard donald trump junior earlier in the night, say that was a masterclass that that is exactly what why they want to jd vance in that job in that role. >> right. but the jd vance on the debate stage tonight is not the jd vance. we have seen on the campaign trail at rallies doing the interviews that he he's been doing it's just not

i mean, he has been very much trying to defend and explained donald trump's positions tonight glossed over the controversial positions that donald trump has that when it, when it comes to abortion. >> number one, when it comes to obamacare, the issues that donald trump disagrees with kamala harris on that are very popular with a lot of swing voters. >> vance pretended like it wasn't a difference at all. cnn's kaitlan collins is going to pick up our debate coverage along with an update on the crisis in the middle east after this break thanks for watching

sunday well, no, whole story of former first lady and the first second gentleman kaitlan collins, takes a closer look at the potential for spouses americans have come to expect the position is one that you could make a difference, but history and possible future of this iconic office, regardless of the politics, the image of the two of them together yeah, there is something that will change the way americans think about how men support their wives. >> the whole story with anderson cooper, sunday at 8:00 on cnn feeling from a backed-up god we are lacks works

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