that was a, that's a pretty detailed story because -- and i can tell you that story because she was arrested by the east germans and was subjected to some pretty harsh interrogation in 1960-'61 with her husband. any to these crimes, and i, you know, have since corroborated her confession with other testimony and gone to the site and matched up what she said with the actual layout of the place and talked to local witnesses there. her husband was guillotined, he was given the death penalty, and she was given a life sentence. so when these women went back to these different places during now the context of the cold war, their faith varied quite a bit. i mean, erna petri got a life sentence. this is not what happened in another case of a secretary who with her boss was indicted for the murder of 9,000 jews, and

they were both acquitted in the '70s. or the case of the austrian perpetrators who go back to vienna and don't even, i mean, their cases are heard in a kind of closed court, but they're treated with the utmost kind of respect as being these ladies and told to go home. >> host: so most of these women who worked with the nazis kind of faded back into normal, so-called normal life, correct? >> guest: yes, yes. and this is really another astounding piece of the story, is how much contact, how much this brought out the horrific behavior, and after the war they slipped back into society. you could say they got away murder. they did. scholars refer to, psychologists that i refer to in my book, the chameleon effect which is this ability for these perpetrators to, you know, just slip back in. they don't go on, they're not

psychopaths, you know, who continue to kill after the war. they become normal, upstanding -- they're no longer threats to society. it's a different system. the system that kind of nurtured that, incited that kind of horrific behavior has been defeated. so they kind of move into these earlier roles, they slip back into the house frau, the mother, the secretary, the nurse. >> host: wendy lower is chair of the history department at claremont college, that correct? >> guest: i'm the chair of history. not the chair of the department. >> host: there we go. >> guest: and this is her new book coming out in september, "hitler's furies: german women in the nazi killing fields." this is booktv on c-span2. >> visit booktv.org to watch any of the programs you see here online. type the author or book title in the search bar on the upper left side of the page and click

search. you can also share anything you see on booktv.org easily by clicking share on the upper left side of the page and selecting the format. booktv streams live online for 48 hours every weekend with top nonfiction books and authors. booktv.org. >> booktv continues with paul gregory. mr. gregory profiles five women who lived in the soviet gulag during the 1930s and '40s. it's a little over an hour. >> good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. i'm not paul gregory. i'm mark harrison, i'm a hoover fellow, hoover research fellow. welcome to the concluding session of this year's hoover institution workshop on totalitarian regimes. every year the workshop gathers some of the most promising and best historians from around the world for two weeks to work in the rich holdings of the

archives, and the workshop is led by mr. gregory who's this afternoon's speaker. for some of you, paul will need no introduction. for others, he's a leading economist and historian of russia under communist rule. among economists, he's a rarity. all economists work with theoretical models and statistical data. paul is one of the few who understands the power of the story. and among paul's most celebrated publications are books that tell stories. his book, "lenin's brain," is a collection of stories from the hoover archives that range from the grim to the comic and curious. his book "politics, murder and love in stalin's kremlin" is a poignant story of nikolai and anna -- [inaudible] today paul will talk to you about his new book called "women of the gulag." "women of the gulag" was inspired by need and an opportunity. the opportunity is represented by the hoover archives' rich

holdings on coercion and repression in the soviet union. there are millions of pages of documents from the gulag, stalin's agency for forced labor camps. mock other hold -- among other holdings that tell the story of the power and cruelty under the bolsheviks are the meetings of the central committee and the personal archives of one of stalin's georgian comrades in arms and dmitri -- [inaudible] gorbachev's biographer of stalin. and these holdings illustrate the opportunity for scholars to work here at hoover on the history of soviet rule. i said there was a need and an opportunity. the need for paul's book is illustrated by simple statistical comparison. in russia women die on average in their 70s, men die in their early 60s. while most all men who experienced and survived stalin's mass suppressions are now dead. only a few women are still alive, and they, too, are soon

to have passed on. their stories need to be told now before it's too late. through paul's book, the last survivors have now been able to tell their stories. they are "women of gulag." [applause] >> thank you, eric and mark, for such fine introduction. this is a multimedia presentation. we hope it will go without any snags. so i hope you can all see the screen. i'm very pleased to present to this audience my new book "women of the gulag: portraits of five remarkable lives." as is said about writing letters, it's more difficult to write a short one that a long

one. my book is short, and it attempts to capture sights, sounds and smells of the great terror of 1937-1938 through the eyes of five women caught up in extraordinary circumstances. i wish to thank collectively my friends and colleagues at the hoover institution, the hoover institution library and archives, the hoover press without which this book could not have been written. so there are too many here for me to thank them individually, so i'd like to thank you collectively. thousand to the book -- now to the book itself. i said this before, but it's a good way to introduce the topic. stalin is purported to have said the death of one person is a

tragedy, the death of a million is a statistic. those of us who study soviet russia fall into this trap. we think we can convince people of stalin's evil by citing the millions who died in its famines, the hundreds of thousands shot during the great terror, '37-'38, and the millions of men be, women and children who sat in his concentration camps and special settlements. stalin's many admirers in today's russia and even the west admit that stalin may have done some bad things, but if you look at it in its totality, maybe he's worth it. today stalin is among the most admired figures in contemporary

russia which may be hard for us to believe. my stories transport us from the statistic to the tragedy. they tell us that overwhelmingly his victims were ordinary people, confused why they had been singled out. they tell us the fine dividing line between perpetrator and victim. unlike hitler's germany, the executioners became the executed. their stories tell us that the wives and children of the repressed could contaminate others, and they had to be isolated from society also. each part of my book begins in stalin's office as he and his

henchmen finalize their decrees of repression. i then follow these decrees as they filter down to our five families. in this presentation i leave stalin out. that's for you to read about when you buy the book -- [laughter] i want, instead, to introduce you to four of my five women. you have to read the book to learn about the fifth. my women were not selected in any scientific fashion. rather, i read through hundreds -- probably more than hundreds -- of unpublished memoirs, primarily collected be by the -- [inaudible] foundation. until i found subjects who described in enough detail their lives during and after the gulag. i did not want to write a story

about women behind barbed wires. rather, i wanted to get to know each family and to share their tragedy with my readers. why women? i must admit, i did not intend to write a book about women of the few lag -- gulag, but it turns out that the women, not the men, survived. as mark said. moreover to, women are large hi overlooked -- largely overlooked in the gulag literature. and women, unlike men, in their memoirs give me the inti mitt mate information -- intimate information about family life that i need. men don't write about such things. as i wrote this book, i actually developed a bond with each of the characters. their accounts gave addresses,

names, dates. i knee that it was unlikely that any of them were alive. they'd be in their 80s or 90s. but curiosity drove me and my indispensable research assistant, neyal ya, who will stand up -- [applause] to try to locate them or close family membered. lo and behold, we found three of our primary characters still alive from age 86 to 96, still living, ornery, lucid, and typical of russia, still living where the action of their story takes place. in other cases we found their daughters, and the daughters were old enough to retell their family's stories.

after we actually located them and telephoned them, we immediately resolved with noted russian-american film maker to film them and thus was born a documentary which accompanies the book. and if you get the e-version of the book, after a short while you will get an e-book with clips in which the women and daughters tell their stories. and we will show you some of these clips here. also i recommend to you natalia's account of what i call finding one of our, my favorite characters. that's published in the latest hoover digest, and i believe there are copies outside if you would like to have one. i must relay to telling a sad point. as mark said, we have little

time for these last witnesses. to tell their stories before the camera. two of them died shortly after their interviews. one being olga, whose clip you'll see shortly. all this being said, let's turn to our stories. we begin with -- [inaudible] i'm not going to give you last names, they would only confuse you. she lived from 1903 to 1981. we have interviews with her daughter who experienced much of the adventure of agnessa's life. agnessa was born in 190be 3 in

a -- 1903 in a small town in southern russia. she and her sister were regarded as the most beautiful girls in town. during the civil war, the town was occupied by both white and red forces. the sister married a white officer, agnessa married a red secret police officer, and agnessa went on to marry a rising star in the nkvd. but first, i would like to read you just some fragments. and i have deliberately chose fragments from ordinary life. some of the fragments are quite hour -- horrific.

but it's important that you understand my purpose is to tell who these people were before this happened. and this is how she meets ivan. agnessa and her sister took their laces on a park bench, and lo and behold, three officers dressed in uniform approached. the middle one, tall and upright, caught agnessa's eye. if i marry, i want only him. sudden gust of wind carried off agnessa's blue silk head scarf, and she ran to fetch it. and her sister whispered in reproach, why did you do that? they were all running to rescue your scarf. ivan would become her husband. so agnessa and ivan married,

they moved. ivan, unfortunately, didn't appear to be very ambitious. he wasn't moving up. he was putting on weight. in the meantime, at a lecture for party wives she met sergei, the love of her life. sergei was a rising star in the secret police, and he eventually rose to be number three or four in the nkvd during the great purges. they carried on a secret love affair for three years while ivan pretended not to know what was going on. and they went for long walks, had long conversations.

agnessa was somewhat shocked that sergei was a true believer. she learned this in a conversation. not in jest, sergei told the astonished agnessa that he would not hesitate to execute her if he found her to be an enemy. he suited her tears -- soothed her tears by adding, after i shot you, i would shoot myself. there came a time where, when sergei was elevated to become the number two man in kazahkstan, and at this point

agnessa had to decide: go with him who's a rising star, or stay with ivan who's going nowhere. and here is the account of her making this decision. at the train station in ross to have on the dawn. so they go to the train station, agnessa as usual is dressed to the teeth. and as agnessa waited for departure in mirosha's compartment, he insisted that agnessa come with him to moscow only for a little while. agnessa wore only a light dress with a jacket, carried a small handbag. how can i go without anything, she objected. don't worry, mirosha assured her, we'll buy you what you need in moscow.

as the warning whistle sounded, mirosha held her hand in an iron grip, i'll not let you go. the train started. so began agnessa's life together with mirosha. so we now go to agnessa with mirosha in kazahkstan. they're holding their daughter, from whom you will hear in a minute, who's actually agnessa's niece, but she and mirosha adopted her. here's the story -- it gets a little more gruesome -- of agnessa accompanying mirosha on a camp inspection of kazahkstan camps in 1931. it turns out agnessa accompanies

him because mirosha's boss is making advances towards her. they call him pot belly. so in order to escape pot belly's advances, she goes with mirosha on this train trip around kazahkstan. and here's her story. as mirosha disembarked at the station, he rejected the bored agnessa's request to tag along. upon his return, they lay in the sleeping car without a word. the other inspectors told agnessa of miserable families freezing in crude shelters. they said that the female manager of the supply depot be had pointed out her window. take a look at that hovel over there. the mother and father died leafing be-- leaving behind

three young children. the 2-year-old died short will have after them. the older boy took out a knife, cut his brother into pieces, sharing them with his sister. that night agnessa told mirosha what she had heard. they can't be all enemies, mirosha, she said. mirosha had no answer. mirosha keeps advancing, and in 1937, if i remember rightly, he becomes the head of the nkvd of all of western siberia. so here's agnessa.

and the fragment i'm about to read shows the thin line between executioner and victim. agness a&m irosha began a heatedly-contested game of billiards in the side office. agnessa usually won these games. in the midst of the game, mirosha stopped short, the cue stick in his hand. he turned pale. agnessa followed his gaze through the large window. she saw three military men approaching in nkvd uniforms. agnessa burst out, what's the matter, mirosha? then she understood. for an instant, he thought they were coming for him. final fragment before we hear

from their daughter, this is mirosha's arrest. after western siberia, mirosha becomes ambassador to mongolia. they then return to moscow where they live in the government house for the elite. the government house is famed for the number of famous victims of terror who live there. so here is the story of mirosha's arrest. at a friend's apartment, mirosha got an unexpected call to come to the office. as he approached agnessa, he whispered, maybe this is my arrest. she answered, what are you talking about? go, try not to be late to the circus. they'd promised their daughter they'd go to the circus. agnessa saw him off at the staircase, she gave him her woolen scarf. he carefully wound it around his neck. agnessa understood.

this might be the only thing from her he would have. agnessa returned home to find nkvd officers ransacking her apartment. the daughter complained, what about the circus? agnessa, we have a circus here at home. so mirosha is arrested, i'll not go into the story of that. they removed agnessa and her daughter from the government house. they were evacuated as the war began. in 1942 agnessa herself was arrested for anti-soviet gossip. they then took her to moscow and figured out who she was, and then she was sent to one of the

worst camps in kazahkstan. let's listen to their daughter talking about the arrest. [speaking russian] >> we now turn to our second woman of the gulag, maria. here's a collage that

illustrates maria's life. she is born in 1904 in an isolated village in eastern siberia when a -- as a simple peasant girl. her father was a simple farmer. when a rail spur was built, maria met her future husband, alexander, who was the engineer in charge of the work. they married and raised three children in a hard-working, well-educated family. alexander proved to be an outstanding engineer. he and maria lived in various locales along the transsiberian railroad, and he finally rose to the elevated position of chief

engineer of the division of the trans-siberian. that's a very important job. they had enormous military significance, mining significance connected to the east. although maria had only an elementary education, she loved good books, and she imparted this fashion to her three children. they especially loved pushkin. they accumulated a small family library, and her children -- nadia, olga and yuri -- were all outstanding students at school. you can see she's rather fashionably dressed. she was rather far my dressed because -- fashionably dressed because she was supposed to be an example for alexander's many

subordinates. she volunteered, she improved the quarters of alexander's workers. they were one of the most respected families in town. at the end of 1936, she was even elected to be a delegate to a very important convention of women's activists in moscow end of 1936. this was quite an honor, she was looking forward to it. this is the last family portrait alexander, yuri, nadia, olga and maria on the right. last family portrait. in this portrait alexander, as you can see, is in a military

uniform be that the railroaders wore. he was head of the entire section of the trans-siberian. he ran afoul of the local nkvd who had their eyes on apartments that belonged to the railroad. he thwarted this. they vowed that they would take revenge on him, which they did after a rail accident. they accused him of wrecking and sentenced him to nine years in a nearby camp. maria was very happy, if you could imagine that, because he was only 15 minutes away from the camp, so they figured they could, they could make it through. that didn't happen.

i'll not go into the day tails. details. but let's let olga tell of the last meeting with her father. mugs mugs. [speaking russian]

>> as the slide tells you, their father did not survive. it was practice to take photographs of all prisoners before execution. we were able to find his last picture as, if you compare him in the family portrait with that, you can see what he had gone through. so alexander was executeed, and even before the word of the execution came out, they arrested maria. and i'd like to read you more than a fragment of the arrest.

on october 7, 1937, 11-year-old yuri -- yuri's teacher told him, they need you at home urgently. yourly dashed home, hoping papa had returned. as he burst through the door, he saw his weeping mother embracing nadia and olga. she rushed to him. thank god we're all together. the officer in charge paced back and forth, curious neighbors peered in and hurried away. olga, innocently asked, look, that uncle put papa's watch in his pocket. the three children clung so tightly to maria that the arresting officer could not disentangle them. the officer telephoned headquarters, send a car. they got in the car. the car veered from one street through the arch of nkvd headquarters. get out of the car and sign the protocol, as maria exited -- the

driver revved the motor, the children screamed, their mother lurched towards the car, and before their horrified eyes, the men beat her to the ground. the driver took them to the nkvd orphanage. maria herself was sentenced to the famousal jeer camp for women in kazahkstan shortly thereafter. and i believe we have daughter olga talking about this. [speaking russian]

>> maria survived the camps. here's a picture of her probably in the 1950s with her granddaughter. as i said, olga died shortly after this interview.

we now turn to adele. adele was born in 1920. she was only 15 when she was literally swept away by a handsome older man who was a member of the leading family of the -- the leading political family, and we have here at hoover nester's personal collection including his photographs with stalin. into adile's new daughter-in-law was a close associate of stalin. stalin visited their home. adile visited stalin's -- [inaudible] adile's story is incredible. when she told it to some of the top prosecutors in moscow after the secret speech, they said why

read a novel? just listen to this woman. after the rival of her brother-in-law, mr. lakoba, was poisoned, arrests began all around her. all of her family, all of her in-laws were arrested, and adile fled to moscow to disappear. and in moscow she was sheltered by a very courageous woman by the name of -- [speaking russian] who happens to be one of russia's most famous actresses. so the story of adile hiding out in the actress' apartment is an incredible story. going back to happier moments in

adile's life, it was still the practice for men to kidnap their brides, and this is her husband, the brother-in-law of nester lakoba. this is adile. i think she's 15 or 16 at this time. 15. after meeting the 35-year-old emdi at a birthday party, 15-year-old adile knew that nester lakoba, his brother-in-law, ruled, and his sister was the queen of society.

other eligible girls were dismayed when emdi set sights on adile. he did not listen to her objections to marriage. within a year or two, someone will steal you. i don't intend to wait. so the kidnapping occurred on october 20th, 1935, at a party. adile was surprised by the buzz of excitement at the party. emdi's friends had her scribble that she wished to marry emdi of her free will. the coupe rant brightal party escorted adile into a separate room, covered her face with silk. each guest raised the veil, kissed the bride and handed over a presented. then the men carried adile back to the main hall to dance. in the lakoba household, adile at each party would be asked to dance before the bolshevik elite.

the wedding celebration ended at day daybreak as a choir of girls sang for the parting guests. emdi retired with his 15-year-old bride to the lakoba compound as a married couple. this was a happy time in adile's life. this happy time did not last very long. a rival -- at least according to family story -- poisoned lakoba, and thereafter the arrests began. all of the loakoba's were arrested, adile's father were arrested, her father, wife, son ralph and adile's father who was

a persian. so adile never had soviet citizenship. so everyone was being arrested, and ad can ile -- including her husband, emdi -- and adile who is now like 16 or 17 spent her days trying to find where emdi was imprisoned and to bring him provisions. and i'd like to read this excerpt about her standing in front of one of the prisons which is around 30 kilometers. adile's line moved slowly in front of the prison where emdi was held. the august heat stifled the waiting mothers and wives with small children. the absolute silence was disrupted only by small children who pleaded with their mothers

for something to eat, drink or sleep. adile recognized emdi's voice calling out her name. she searched the windows and saw emdi clinging to the prison bars and shouting, leave!" go as far away as possible!" i fear for you. they're probably going to send us away. do not believe that we have done anything wrong. the guards tore everything mdi from the prison bars, the women around adile began to cry. a guard grabbed a adile by the collar, dragged her to the gate and threw her outside to the ground. adile was quite a character. and let's hear from adile herself. [speaking russian]

>> adile was also sentenced to kazahkstan where she barely survived. she met her is second husband in kazahkstan. they had two children. her second husband was a greek and had no right to enter into

the soviet union, so they lived separately. here are her two children. the daughter on the left you see in the film with her. the son, unfortunately, died early. and she's now 96? huh? 93. 93. we go to the final character, my favorite. and this is the story that natalia wrote. here's a collage of fioqla. so fiokla was born in 1926 in the ural mountains. her father was one of the richest farmers in town.

fiokla and her family -- the father is next to her, second from the top left. they were deported to a special settlement as they were called which was basically a lifetime sentence for the adults. the children could perhaps leave the special settlement if they behaved themselves when they grew up. fiokla lived as a prisoner in this special settlement until she was freed to become a schoolteacher. she went on to become a professor and devoted her life to helping her friends and neighbors obtain rehabilitation. her pleasant childhood ended in 1930 be when stalin ordered the --

[inaudible] of the soviet countryside. stripped of all belongings, the family was sent to where adults and children worked in mines and fields on starvation rations. so let's hear from fiokla. [speaking russian]

>> fiokla writes a lot about her love of going to school and a true believer in stalin and soviet power. here is fiokla on the right with two sisters and grandfather. she describes her childhood where the only bright spot of

her childhood was going to school, but here's how she described it. in the winter, the thinly-dressed children pulled their sleds to the camp's water pump. if it was broken, they walked a mile to the river. they returned frightfully frozen, red as a goose's webbed feet trying to warm their fingers by rubbing them in their armpits. children succumbed to work-related accidents. the children worked alongside the parents. a runaway cart crushed one who had come to the mine to share his parents' meager rations. an errant rope strangled misha, age 14, driving a horse-drawn wagon in mine number six. 13-year-old adea drowned while fetching water. despite work and meager rations,

fiokla still found time to be a child. in the desolate swamp, the children staged battles shouting hurrah as the reds drove white spoos the marsh grass. crying was simply not allowed, although the carnage often ended with bloody noses and other injuries. all the children were poor. they had little food, often no shoe, but the school required that the girls wear a dress. in fiokla's family the problem was that there was only one dress, and fiokla and her sister had to share the dress. katia often got into be trouble at school. they went many different shifts. and if katia was late, fiokla had to wait for the dress.

fiokla herself tells the story much better than i can. [speaking russian] >> fiokla's teachers did not tell her that her father was an enemy of the people and would always be an enemy of the people. as the great terror began, the arrests began. they would usually arrest the men at work in the fields or in the mines. fiokla's father knew what was coming. he would try to stay up longer so he could play with the

children. and one day fiokla's father did not return. as did most of the other men, they did not return. the next day all the families went boo town to see -- went into town to see what was going on. and fiokla tells of this day. [speaking russian]

>> here is fiokla today with her surviving sisters as we interviewed them. i have just some brief final comments, and then there'll be a final brief film segment. there is not one big monument in russia to commemorate the victims of stalin, there's no holocaust museum. there's never been a final reckoning, there's never been an apology.

these stories remain largely untold, and those who are able to tell them are disappearing. rather than my having the last word, i would like to let adile, fiokla and particularly the villagers summarize what this book is about. [speaking russian]

♪ ♪ [speaking russian] ♪ ♪

[applause] >> well, thank you, paul, for sharing with us your insight into the lives of these remarkable women. we have perhaps five, ten minutes now for questions and answers. so, ladies and gentlemen, the floor is yours. please. >> paul, to what extent are

things like this known in russia today, or are people interested? do they -- is it all so old that they're beyond it? what would you say to that? >> with i can't speak for the people of russia. i think many people really do not want to hear these stories. this is something that happened in the past, it's unpleasant. of course, there are very dedicated people like memorial societies, foundations, very brave people under attack right now from the putin regime. clearly, the stories are not well known, and the reason for writing this book is when you hear the personal stories, you are much more struck by the horror of this than when you

read about it in books and read the statistics. so clearly, not enough is known. >> thank you. so the gentleman here and then the lady here. >> thank you for the talk -- [inaudible] are you able to go there and get about freely? >> i was in russia about a month ago. i did have some concerns. we have been able to hold international conferences on the gulag and stalin's repression in moscow. the people, the russians who attend are willing to attend. putin himself is unclear how he should act. it is a justification for repression and the so of called strong hand that russia needs.

on the other hand, the number of victims was so large and the number of families that had victims so large, something like 15, 20% of all russian families were affected by this. there are others who attend these conferences that are much greater danger than i am. >> please. >> she needs -- >> yeah. microphone here. >> these all seem rather random in a way, and yet there seems to be a surprising thread of people, at least two or three of these, who were executed i don't really know why. i mean, i don't know why they were selected. i can't quite understand that. this is horrifying to hear.

but some of them i would have thought would have been quite safe because they were working in positions that seemed to be important to stalin. is there some common thread or some reason that you discovered that caused these people to be executed? >> well, you have to look at each particular case. the engineer was in charge of a whole division of the trans-siberian, and this meant if you're going to have a thousand trains, you're going to have a wreck. and the minute the wreck happened, he was already on the wrong side of the nkvd. they had orders that had already come down we need you to execute so many people, so he was -- it's obvious why he was chosen.

fiolka's father was a -- [inaudible] and when the orders came down for these quotas and executions, there was a discussion that a prime target would be culags. so her father had no chance. mirosha, agnessa's husband, was number three or number four in the nkvd. he almost survived. that's the remarkable story of him. but in the case of stalin, you had this remarkable phenomenon of the executioners becoming executed. and they all understood this. and this created a rather odd dynamic. adile got into trouble because she belonged to a family that had trouble with one of the worst murderers of the stalin regime. so each one is different.

but particularly for the very simple people, you really can't find a reason for it. and their reaction, why us? we've done can nothing wrong, we're good soviet citizens, many were true believers. so it doesn't make a lot of sense. somebody else? >> and so here in the middle, just to this side of the walkway. >> [inaudible] who were the culags? >> excuse me. a culag would be a farm family that was wealthier than others. usually it's measured by the fact that they had hired labor, they had a barn, they had livestock. so in 1929 stalin ordered what was called deculagiization which

is basically deportation to a remote area. so fiokla's family story is the story of a deported culag. so that may answer your question. ..

>> yes, two or three years. yes. >> the lady in the front. >> given your background in the kgb, is there any suggestion, any evidence of all that he is establishing the same kind of camps where the same kind of process? >> well, his political opponents are now residing in the same prisons and camps that the women in the story resided in much earlier. the three young musician women, two of them are still in the camp. the prison is occupied by some of the peaceful demonstrators

from the may 3 demonstration. there are stories that the psychiatric hospitals have open to them for political opposition this again. so very similar. >> i'm sure that there are many more questions. the reception out in the courtyard. i'm sure it will be happy to answer more questions there. a bit of energy left. and that would also like to mention that you will find a limited number of advanced copies of paul's book, complimentary copies of the table by the exit to my left, you're right. further copies are available for purchase on amazon and other bookstores. to conclude, sir elected join me in thanking ball for wonderful presentation. [applause]

[inaudible conversations] >> every weekend book tv offers 48 hours of programming focused on nonfiction authors and books. watch it here on c-span2. >> here are some of the latest headlines surrounding the publishing industry this past week. author and screenwriter of wall and information and manage -- measurement company has announced it will purchase publishing data vendor business intelligence and commerce solutions, acquiring these new

vendors will allow nielsen to measure e-book sales and track sales trends. in a statement, nilsson's book president said the company is committed to elevating their global book industry's understanding of print and digital book measurement and discovery within an evolving media landscape. the purchase deal is set to close next month. during the first quarter of the fiscal year barnes and noble as a reported loss of $87 million. the losses of 40 million over the same time frame in 2012. the company's e-readers saw a decline in sales of 20% in the first quarter as well. stay up-to-date on breaking news about authors, books, and publishing by letting us on facebook. or follow us on twitter. you can also visit our website, booktv.org, and click on news about books. >> you're watching c-span2 with

politics and public affairs weekdays featuring live coverage of the u.s. senate. on weeknights watched the public policy of and send every weekend ... nonfiction authors and books on book tv. you can see past programs and get our schedule letter website and join in the conversation on social media sites. >> you know that and the week after september 11th, congress passed a bill called the authorization for the use of military source. and basically what that did this give a blank check to the bush administration to wage a global borrow this war. send forces to any country that it deemed had a connection. they could hunt down any individuals who were even tangentially connected to a 911 attacks. that is still the law that president obama and his administration side when they are bombing people.

in some cases targeting individuals who were toddlers. a law was written to target the people responsible. howard -- responsible? a blank check. rear-ended to make it permanent. president obama said in his second inaugural address that he did not want the u.s. to live in a state of perpetual war. his policies indicate that he was the exact opposite. he wants the u.s. to be in a perpetual state of war. there was only one member of congress the voted against the a you ms. imagine what that must of been like. we all remember what it was like , the fear and hysteria gripping the country. it was this one member of congress. she stood up. i think ten people should, in particular, all of us.

even find it online. barbirolli was trembling when she gave that speech. imagine the courage. what she said in the speeches that we cannot use these attacks to engage in retaliation across the globe. engaged in actions that are going to undermine our democratic principle. we can now wage a war that does not have an end game. so prophetic innervation, the same way then those senators saw something that so many of their colleagues on capitol hill either were too blind to notice or willfully chose to embrace a massive rollback. the seat, to have that area or the courage to ask tough questions at a time when there are calls for mob violence takes real backbone, real courage. we're in one of those moments today where we have this popular democratic president to won the

nobel -- nobel peace prize. it's easy to oppose policies when you have cartoon his villains in control. you know, i do actually imagine him in his later plot and the destruction of the world. i'm only slightly kidding. but when you have the actual courage to stand up and say it the same principles that applied with those guys are in power apply when president obama was in power, that actually is very principles attested. and so we have an expansion of the draw strikes. we have the use of secret prisons not being run by the cia, but being run by other governments in they human-rights abusing forces and air shipping prisoners of to be tortured in secret prisons in countries like somalia, the basement of its national security service. as documented this when i travel to mogadishu. here is change and the president obama. a close the cia by site.

amelie start using somalia's gulag where we are interrogating prisoners. snatched out of the psalm, take into wilson airport, shackled and headed and then flown to somalia worry was put in this bag but it -- been bugged and tested underground prison with no access to light, the outside world, lawyers command could not tell his family very had been taken. that action happened and the president obama. when i called for, they said, yes, that sounds right. why would we do that? is natural that we will want to cooperate in the fight against terrorism. i think most americans are under the impression that obama issued the three executive orders that it a couple of days and his administration that he would be dismantling it, not read branding it every casting it as a more legitimate form of

running the same program. that is large and what happened. renditions continue under president obama. normalized as a central component, not as though we have not had that before, but it has been normalized by this president as a central component of what is called america's national security policy. >> your watching book tv on c-span2 pier readers are prime-time lineup for tonight. beginning at 7:00 p.m. eastern we hear from book tv recent trip to london. at 745, dissecting charles manson is life. 9:00 p.m., elizabeth greenspan joins book tv on afterwards. in an interview with ken feinberg, a former special master of the federal september 11th victim's compensation fund, greenspan talks about her book battle for ground zero. inside political struggles to rebuild the war trade center.

at 10:00 p.m. eastern brenda one apple presenter but ecstatic nation, confidence, crisis, and compromise, 1848-1877. we wrap up tonight primetime programming at 11:00 p.m. eastern with mac griswold, author of the manor, three centuries at a slave plantation on l.i. that all happened tonight on book tv. >> peter lance talks about gangster gregory scarpa next on book tv. a high-level member of the colombo crime family. and his role as an informant for the fbi going back to the early 1960's. mr. scarpa committed many of his crimes, including many murders, while working as an informant. this is an hour 45 minutes. [applause] >> okay. i feel like i know you people