executive actions to reduce the amount of regulatory burdens on small businesses and asked all of the agencies to look at those regulatory rules that were in place that were hampering the small businesses from being able to succeed. so, the agencies went back and looked at the rules on the books and found in many cases that they could either wave or they could tweak the rules to make it easier for businesses to engage in the work that they need to do in creating products and providing services and not having to get hampered in the red tape. so that's just one of many different things we have been doing to help small businesses. ..

a day else a portion of the sheriff shared lending to small and microbusinesses. because of that 4 billion-dollar investment in 332 institutions across the country community banks or cdfi loan funds, we have seen positive returns for taxpayers so this is no cost to the taxpayer and we are also seeing that lending has increased by more than

$10 billion so we take that $4 billion investment. as a result the institutions have loaned more than $10 million above and beyond the lending that they were doing beforehand. what that actually turns into is around 41,000 new loans to small businesses. it also means that of those loans, i think we are somewhere around 65 or 70% of those loans were below $100,000, so these are actually loans that are going to the smallest of small businesses, not midsize businesses that getting the businesses that are going to be the job creators and are the job creators. we also invested through another program called the state small-business credit initiative $1.5 billion went to states to support their innovative lending and investigated -- investment programs.

that will lead to $15 billion worth of new lending across the country. to date, it has supported around 5000 new loans and 80% of those loans through the ssbci program went to businesses with zero to 10 employees so again these are affecting the smallest businesses in the country. the program supports a range -- this program supports a range of state programs. i think there are 142 different programs the cubs -- across the country but its most innovative and successful program that has supported capital access problems loan participation programs, a range of microenterprise programs. in fact is maureen mentioned i spent a lot of time in detroit. two weeks ago the state of michigan using this ssdi funding launched a microenterprise company, a microin the prize

program focused on detroit so we are excited these funds are actually getting to support my grinder prices. in addition to that we have this great part of treasury. i think of it is the retail part of treasury the community development financial fund or cdfi fun. this program supports low and very low-income communities across the country. many of you have probably heard of the new markets tax credit program the work it's done over the last decade and a half. $33 billion worth of tax cuts going to the lowest income communities in the country. in addition to that we are providing hundreds of millions of dollars in grants to local cdfi's that are the ones working closely with microenterprises. so i'm not going to spend more time touting all the things that we have done. no doubt many of you know these

programs yourselves. i will say that what i am most excited about is some of the things we have been working on recently. start up america, something the president help to launch a few years ago which is mobilizing billions of dollars of business resources to help launch hundreds of thousands of startups across the country. now we know that there are local startups, local start-up collaboratives that are part of start america partnerships all across the country. i think it was just a year and a half ago the president signed into law something he had been promoting for a while which is the jobs act or jumpstart our business startups act. one provision of that we think is a game-changer in the democratization of capital for small asness. that's crowd funding. many of you know about crowdsourcing and you have

likely heard about crowd funding. two weeks ago, three weeks ago they put out its proposed rules on crowd funding. if you have not taken the time to look i encourage you to do so and give your fcc the comments. i've believe that period period closes in the middle part of february. crowd funding has the ability to get support from a crowd, from friends, neighbors and folks in the community to help my grinder prices take their great idea and hire an additional person to get the type of investment that day i think that once believed was only eligible for folks who lived and worked on wall street in boston for silicon valley. now we can go to the heart of the country and find ways to help support small enterprises with folks who live in their community, folks who believe in those small businesses but prior

to this didn't have the way of investing in those businesses. so all of that is to say that we are very focused on what we can do to support microenterprise in this country. we think it is critically important as i said to help grow more businesses, helped to employ more people so we can get the country to a place where we are all realizing that place in each of us have so again i want to thank aspen for hosting this event. i think the panel is going to be really interesting and i look forward to hearing from you and working with you and meeting you all at some point. thank you so much. [applause] >> thank you done so much and i think i was right. he is a busy guy. i really want to thank don again for his leadership and his energy and all he is doing to really promote microenterprise and build opportunities for

americans to create jobs so let's thank don again. [applause] now it's my pleasure to quickly introduce our panel. we have a terrific panel for you. we have materials for use so i'm just going to try to quickly help you match names and faces in case you don't know everybody. next to me is my colleague joyce klein who is the director of our field program at the aspen institute and she will be moderating our panel today. to her right, you're left if i'm getting this correct is elaine edgcomb who was the leader of the field for many years and is now our strategic advisor and we are happy to have her back with us today. next we have ida rademacher and we are also happy to have her back with us today. she is chief officer for corporation of economic development. next elizabeth kregor.

director of institute for justice clinic on entrepreneurship and lecturer on law at the university of chicago. next we have connie evans the ceo for enterprise opportunity and last but certainly not least christiana mcfarland director of city solutions are applied research at the national league of cities so thank you all so much for being with us here today. i'm going to turn it over to joyce to get the conversation started. >> thank you maureen and i would like to welcome everyone. i work in the economic opportunities problem -- program and i run the field program so i'm really excited to be here for our conversation today. and to be speaking with our panelists who bring a really deep and rich set of information inexperienced as to the conversation we are going to have today. i also want to acknowledge that we time does really well because saturday november 30 a small business saturday.

you can think less about black friday, go out and spend your money but remember you can's -- remember to spend your money on small businesses saturday also. we are going to touch on issues. [inaudible] so the first thing they want to talk about is why so if the united states were concerned about creating jobs and creating jobs for low-income individuals and communities that have the greatest challenges connected to our economy why is it that we want to focus on microenterprise development as a key source of those jobs. secondly want to talk about what it is we can do to better support microenterprise development and maureen mentioned we are building off of three papers were offering for a job series created by the casey foundation. but they really wanted due was as we looked at job creation challenge facing our country was to look at policy ideas that

were feasible and scalable. that is what we are about today. what are the feasible and scalable ideas that might be ways to support enterprise development and funny the how. we also want to get into not what were those policy ideas but how can we move forward in terms of advancing those ideas. some of these policy ideas are not that new. they have been around for a while but the question is how do we get them in wider play and scale them up here in united states? those are the three things we want to talk about. it's a lot to cover. we have a big panel because we wanted to have the others that papers would also folks who could engage in a conversation with us. i'm going to do something as opposed to making several remarks. i thought it would be useful to start with the definition of microenterprise development for those of you who aren't that familiar with it. i think this is a definition in

united states. we define it as businesses with five or fewer employees including the owner and typically businesses that require $50,000 or less in financing. so if you think about how we define small businesses in the u.s. senate you look at the usda web site you realize we define the different ways. generally it encompasses businesses that have as many as 500 or even 1000 employees and for many small business can involve a businesses as 35 to $50 million in revenue. it's really the smallest set of businesses with fewer than five employees. for those of you who may be familiar with microenterprising in the emerging markets context often what folks are targeting our small informal businesses that may require a few hundred dollars in financing and while some of those businesses are like that in the u.s. that we are focusing on as well we just want to paint the picture that

we are talking about businesses that employ several people. in terms of logistics, our format is going to be i'm going to poses that if questions to our panelists panel is to get the ideas on the table. i'm going to ask them to be pretty crisp so hopefully we will keep the conversation rolling and then we want to save time to have questions for the audience. for those of you who are on social media, our twitter handle is at aspirin microand we have a hashtag for this event which is discussed microjobs. i know we have some folks joining us by livestream and also c-span is here so folks watching virtually the want to tweet questions you will be able to queue us in the q&a. i will ask those of you who are with us today in person feel free to tweet it please turn your phones to silent. with that we are going to jump

into the conversation. i'm going to start with elaine. we have been doing research on the microenterprise for several decades and focusing on the network of community-based organizations that work to support low to moderate income entrepreneurs in united states. can you start by painting a picture for us of what these microbusinesses look like based on your research and what the organizations that work with them are like. >> sure, joyce. thanks for asking that question. i think the definition that joyce put out was a helpful one to think about quantitatively. when you think about what these businesses are i like to think of them as businesses that make our communities livable and in many ways delightful. without those businesses we don't have livable communities are delightful communities. they are street vendors and shopkeepers. they are tailors and bookkeepers. they are the people who clean our houses. they are daycare providers. they are the people who make

crafts and artisan products that we like to buy. there are people who like to take food and transform it into wonderful specialty foods. all those kinds of people that make our communities livable and delightful are entrepreneurs. in the u.s. there are over 800 nonprofit institutions providing services to entrepreneurs like that to help them start and run their businesses. those institutions very informed. some do michael enterprise development is the sole thing they do and others do it as part of the other services they offer the community development financial institutions, there educational institutions and they'll provide services that entrepreneurs need. about 45% of them provide loans and capital access and the other 55 or so% lead with training assistance services for those entrepreneurs. they will serve a wide variety of those entrepreneurs that i

just described but in particular they focus on those that are disadvantaged that have fewer mechanisms for accessing capital or dismiss services so they reach out to those who are largely women. the last u.s. microenterprise census indicated that 58% were women. they are largely minority. they are low income. i think about 70% were low to moderate income and over 45% of them were actually working poor, folks whose household incomes were at 50% or below the federal poverty guidelines. those are the kinds of people we are talking about today. >> thank you. that is the research picture. what we will do now is turn to beth and you work in a lot clinic that works with low income entrepreneurs so we will get to your policy recommendations in a minute. i want to just have the start by

describing for us one of the entrepreneurs you have worked with in your clinic and give us a flavor of some of the challenges you are working on. >> absolutely. as joyce mentioned i'm the director of a legal clinic that provides legal assistance and advocacy for lying, entrepreneurs and as was mentioned some of these big ideas are not new and our big idea is as old as the country. each american has the fundamental right to dream a big dream and start a small business one of the many entrepreneurs i have met over the years i have been working in the clinic is manny fernandez. he is someone who worked in some of the best in town but as the economy started to turn down he lost his job. instead of lamenting he took it as an opportunity to start his own business, create his own

jobs and for more people. chicago unfortunately it's illegal to start -- sell food from a food cart unless you are selling ice cream. the most affordable way for him to started asness, the most affordable way for him to test the market and get out into some of the local neighborhoods with his culinary creations was those close to him. he did start a food truck and he is us cofounders loved the mexican wrestler so they served tamales wearing wrestling masks. they certainly make the neighborhood delightful and he went from unemployed to be an employer of five. it just keeps them out of the definition of the microenterprise.

with himself there were six. he had created these jobs that or ginelli the city of chicago said the food truck cannot be within 200 feet of the restaurant and you can't be downtown or in any of the neighborhoods where there is a lot of foot traffic. if you are more than 200 feet from any restaurant. this was a serious challenge and burden for all the food trucks in the city. when efforts were made to explain to the city how important the opportunities to start a food truck was for these beginning entrepreneurs, the city did write some new laws but unfortunately they actually tightened the screws on the food trucks. the fees for parsing -- parking close to a restaurant went from $250 to $500 to 1000 to $2000, four times the fees for an actual health violation.

this anti-competitive law that was in place only protect the restaurants making life extremely difficult for the entrepreneurs like manny who are starting their businesses and hoping to grow those businesses into the next years or decades restaurants. >> that's a flavor for what we'll be talking about. i'm going to turn to connie now because one of the issues that come up for folks like you who are the voice of microenterprise programs when we talk to policymakers and whether these are microbusiness how valid a strategy this is. how big of a sector in our country and is it worth focusing on these businesses when one thinks about job enterprises. you just did research so can you give us some highlights from that work? >> yes, thank you joyce. the report is called vigor than you think.

the economic impact is within the u.s. and that study funded by the kellogg foundation points to the enormous impact that is made by microbusinesses. first, 92% of all businesses in this country are micro. 98% of all african-american owned businesses are microand nearly 96% of all hispanic businesses in this country are micro. we are talking about the majority of businesses in this country. overall into aggregate these businesses create or help to create more than 41 million jobs again that is directly, indirectly javafx from microbusinesses. 41 million jobs which is nearly

30% or 31% of all the job creation in this country. so we think it's very important to bring the data that the outside contribution made by microbusinesses really as your example shows can become an economic lifeline for communities. for women we found in the data that women who are using microbusiness as a strategy are able on average to generate a between age and $13,000 more income than those who are not in a microbusiness. we found also that it has particular satisfying and productive effect of wealth creation. for example microbusiness owners are 2.5 times, have 2.5 times more wealth than nonbusiness

owners. a latino man the difference is five times in for an african-american woman the difference of owning a microbusiness in particular is 10 times the wealth creation than otherwise. we think these fx really do become game changers for individuals and communities who are underserved. we talk about underserved because of the lack of starting starting -- but products and services that are needed to fit their titular unique set of circumstances and have their businesses to start and grow either are not available for they are not accessible. we think it's a great opportunity looking in the aggregate to really change privacies not only policies but to change the idea and

imagination of what we think about when we think of businesses in the community. they really are micro. >> thank you connie and i like the fact that you broadened it to include the wealth questions as well as the -- we have a jobs issue but we also have a long-term issue with growing inequality so understanding the wealth effects of these businesses is important as well so thank you for raising that. ilan i wanted to come back to you now. connie started to reference the role and you mentioned as well the role that microenterprise organizations play in supporting particularly the most disadvantaged in this faux sioux have the hardest time with resources. some of your most recent research is part of the big ideas for job series so give us some sense of what you learned in that research. sure. what we did was we worked with

23 development programs across the country and together collected survey data on close to 1200 entrepreneur clients of those programs who were randomly select it from all of the clients that they served in 2009 and be looked at their experience in 2010 and collected data into the house and 11. what we learned is that these disadvantaged entrepreneurs were indeed able to create jobs not only for themselves but others in the communities and the look of an array of data points. in under two years, about a year and seven months the number of jobs supported by these entrepreneurs increased 104%. we found that the owners, two-thirds of them are working full-time in their businesses.

the employees, a third of them are working full-time. the wages that they were being paid exceeded the federal minimum wage. it exceeded the federal minimum wage by 53% but workers by 38%. we also found that for owners who are below the poverty poverty line than the idget the program 80% of them were above the poverty line when they were surveyed due in part to the dash generated in those enterprises. even found that very poor people were able to create distances that employed other people. 36% of the people who came into programs below the poverty line not only creative business for themselves but generate employment for other people in their community. there were 1.4 jobs for other folks in business among the low-income folks in the study. the other thing we learned is a

cost between 52 and $5500 to support the creation of one of these jobs. a reasonable amount of money. he learns that for every dollar invested in programs, $3 was generated in wages paid either to workers or themselves and that was in the space of the year and half so when we project that out we can see that investment will multiply even further. those are the kinds of data we were able to find out from these quantitative surveys. we warned able to peer inside the employees household or look at how the employee considered the quality of the job, to what extent it provides a career ladder or opportunity for future development of coming soon we will be able to do that. the field is commencing a qualitative study interviewing a set of employees and business owner supported by eastern new york.

once those interviews are done hopefully we will be able to speak just to have these new employees think about those jobs in what is the role they play in those households. the quantitative picture looks great and we are looking for forward to the qualitative pictures. >> hopefully that gives folks a picture of what we are talking about in terms of jobs created by microenterprises. now we will turn to the second question of life and i'm going to start with the idea. the big ideas project as i mentioned is about advancing policy ideas that are both feasible and scalable which is no small challenge in today's policy contacts. and what we did with your paper with your papers when he looked at trying to keep that issue feasible and scalable as to say what are some existing systems out there, policy mechanisms that we can leverage to better support entrepreneurs and the one he focused on was the tax system. talk with us about how you think the tax system could be changed

or modified to better support the startup and small microenterprises. is a great foundation. i think that the y entrepreneurship for job creation has been well stated. the fda put out research looking at 15 years of job, net new job creation and found 65 to 90% of net new job creation came from small businesses between 1995 and 2015. so thinking about that most businesses start sole proprietorships. they start at that zero and the row in some of them grow a lot and some of them grow not so much but at that point when you are sole proprietor you are still using the engine for -- individual tax code. you put it on your 1040 like you

would wage income and seldom plan income. such is the size of that market there were 23 million people that use the schedule c which is the filing mechanism with the 1040 forms or the schedule c -- schedule d. maxie. 13 million of those were low income folks so when you think about the united states is probably the largest leverageable moment to collect with low-income entrepreneurs and to put context on that the tax code is complex for all of us but it's incredibly complex and difficult to navigate when you are small business that didn't get into the job when your business or so you could be excited about the tax code. you want to see your dream fulfilled for yourself and your family so the counterintuitive sight of that is when you look at what happens attacks time for self-employed and sole proprietor business there is a

lot of existence and the environment is so -- the main oversight issues the tax gap that happens attacks time is a lot about small businesses and in formal businesses that are filing so the culture has to be one of looking at the problems of compliance and enforcement rather than trying to figure out if most started sole proprietorship. if before they can access credit what can we do at the very start to set them up for success in terms of financial stability in the tax code but also in terms of understanding setting themselves before they formalized a business. having said all that quickly i say that two things to keep in mind. there is currently no existing credits refundable or otherwise that exists in the individual income tax code that explicitly targets low income self-employed microbusiness owners.

the things that do exist the fact that you can amortize your business costs or if you make enough to itemize your tax deductions and to do it non1040 type of thing you could deduct half of your social security and medicaid. those exist as we see with most tax incentives. it's really not helpful until you are -- when you are a lower income person it's not a refundable credit it's not particularly helpful. talking about the disincentives and i would say when you think about what opportunities there are there are a couple of things. the first things we talked about that is probably one of the biggest breaches even those leveraging the taxes would be a new entrepreneur tax credit. we put this idea out and the freelancers union supported this idea as well. if this idea that there would be some ideal he refundable credit either limited by the age of the business for limiting the amount

nebraska has a model of this policy that we could build on. that would have the real opportunity to incentivize folks to do self-employment. the other thing is leveraging the current tax incentive refundable tax credits that do have a lot of small business owners. even though it's focused on low-wage workers the fact is your self-employment income counts for that. really i think in 2007, 6 million individuals who filed schedule c actually reported self-employment earnings and a pretty large portion of that most of their income from self-employment. there's a whole number of right at programs that come out of the irs to support income assistance, that supports helping individuals navigate this that -- tax system and file their taxes. right now there's a pilot were small number are able to help low-income entrepreneurs with their schedules e-filing.

it's limited in the sense that it's only a pilot and if you have more than $5000 worth of expenses they can't assist you. one thing would be to look more closely at how it can be supported. we are looking closely at the pilot and the tax coalition and others are looking at that. to make sure the credits are highly leveraged and we will talk about other things later. >> at -- issue is important from the growth question because what a lot of entrepreneurs will do is when they start filing taxes they will minimize their taxes but not realizing when they want to borrow money later they're not showing a lot of revenue that a lender would want to lend against. some way to help folks be able to build towards that ability to grow into the tax system can be important. you will bob also done more work looking at the work for system and how you might think about

microenterprise. >> this hasn't been published yet. the first job application report published by the author of up on line in the new one will be coming in january. we look closer at the tax code and the work for system. we talked a lot of experts think that they leverage the systems that art exists. workforce is the way looking at trying to up employment the one of the things we found with that the way the workforce investment act which is the funding vehicle for job training the performance numbers are pretty specific. they measure if you have been employed how long you have been employed in how much you make. if you are trying to assess something -- somebody with business start of what are the ways you would categorize that person's is to successfully avoid performance metrics that you rely on year in and year out. one of the first things to be

done would be the department of labor to figure out and support some alternative measures that count in the workforce investment system. there are really is guidance out there to support referring people to self-employment. if that's a self-identified ada and the qualifications are that there's a lot of guidance from the department of labor that would say you should refer people but it's really just and that's -- disincentivized so that's the most important thing. there's also the self-employment assistance program which is the way that if you are receiving employment insurance rather than having to look for that job if your state has authorized through the legislative process the self-employment assistance program you can be working on starting your business and receiving unemployment insurance. that has such relevance right now but the complexity and the red tape around leading a state be allowed to do that are leading people drawdown is

complicated so there's a lot more work to be done. again it's entirely profitable in the side of what happens inside the beltway in terms of making -- [inaudible] >> i should note elaine the self assistance program is another one. elaine i want you to speak to two policy ideas that you raised in your paper in these get more to the state level in the local level so we are moving down that spectrum. the first is the community development block grant program and how that can be used and is being used but possibly could be extended to support margarent apprise development and the second is our x. is program so could you speak to both of those? >> community development block grant funding is available to municipalities and two states to pass on to municipalities and can be used for a broad friday of purposes. the real value is their

flexibility. they can be used to support a friday of tools and mechanisms to support economic development. about 26 states have already decided to use some of their funding for microenterprise but overall i think maybe about 9% of all the funds available for development are applied to microenterprise. under 1% of all funds that are available for play play to margarent apprise development so there's really an opportunity to use those funds to support micrn demonstrated in a few places but a lot of states haven't taken advantage of doing that. as i said the idea is that those funds can be used by states and localities in a very flexible way so they can be used to support training dollars for technical assistance dollars to

deliver services directly to entrepreneurs. they can be applied to loan funds so more lending can be done to business owners. they can actually support the operating expenses of the programs themselves which is often the hardest money to fund and come by. if the state or city is interested in leveraging the power of microenterprise for job creation they can use that instrument very flexibly to fill in gaps within their local ecosystem in terms of what local programs need. it's really worth thinking about how that's possible to do. i just put that out there to think about how some of those resources can be shifted to support more for of the job creation at the micro level. capital access programs are programs that enable lenders to mitigate the risk of loans that they make to small businesses.

what happens is the state capitol access program creates a reserve fund to which the state, the lender and the artwork each contribute a portion of the reserve that is required to get a specific loan. then those monies are held in a reserve account and if there's a default those monies can be drawn upon to replace those lost funds. what is the value here? microenterprise programs people land to entrepreneurs who would not be lent to buy the financial system and so the more loans we can get out to entrepreneurs the more potential we have for job creation and actually our research shows that are worse are more likely to create jobs that nonborrowers. getting more money into the hands of microborrowers can kickstart more job creation. by creating these reserve funds

it mitigates the risk for all parties. it mitigates the rest of the borrower and to the lender and it reduces the application that the state as well in terms of what funding it might need to support this lending which allows a program than to amplify what it's doing. in fact it doubles her trip worse they are reserve fund thereby allowing them to expand more broadly into the market where there is a risk. right now colorado, north carolina, georgia and california i think are the only states that use their capital access funds for microenterprise. there are 26 or 27 states that have these programs but they have confined it mostly to the financial institution to banks lending to small businesses. the four states i mentioned have open it up to microlender switch revises powerful tool. in the state of california desmond opportunity funding in the bay area, foxy on in san

diego and a number of lenders in between have all had access to these funds under the x. this program. in 2011 i think 40,000 microloans were made across the whole system because of allowing access to that program. and the losses have been very limited and very modest. by diversifying the risk across all three parties and allowing lenders to expand the capacity can be a powerful tool. >> there was an opportunity because one of the programs that don mentioned the small business credit has gotten into state capitol access programs. we have got one more set of policy ideas and then we will bring in particular connie and christine who have a lot of experience with policy ideas working with them. i will ask you to speak a little

bit about your focus specifically on local licensing and how that affects microenterprising and tell us about the barrier sissy and some recommendations he made in the paper about how to deal with it. state and local governments far too often get in the way of these microbusinesses and in the way of job creation. rather than clearing a path for these entrepreneurs to be creative into brand-new things, the local licensing requirements of the state and city level create these small boxes that microentrepreneurs often have to fit into and they create all sorts of terriers for people. for examples of problems created by these kinds of licensing requirements are listed in my paper and they include unnecessary training requirements. in illinois for example, a male

technician has to go to school for hours and even take continuing legal education after. writers all over the country are required to go to hundreds of hours of schooling to learn all about hairstyling and hair coloring and curling, things that they don't ever use. another goblin, unnecessary facilities for requirements so these laws are written to codify a very specific notion of what a business should be like and importantly these laws which are heavily influenced by the businesses already in existence and make permanent the business model of the businesses that are in existence that don't want the competition. so these laws require certain kinds of facilities which are a waste of money. we want a entrepreneurs to spend

money and we are asking them to spend money on facilities. a classic example, funeral homes or anyone involved in the funeral business around the country are required to have full funeral home with embalming rooms and everything. we represented some monks at a monastery who sent lee wanted to build wooden caskets. they weren't allowed to because they didn't have a full on funeral home and a licensed funeral director. these laws create these very narrow categories that people have to fit into. john is a fantastic example of an brand-new business that is using technology to improve transportation but it's running into these problems. they are very rigid definitions of what a business could be.

what is a tax cap business and what is delivery or car business? his brand-new idea blurs the lines between those categories and therefore prohibited uber from operating altogether which is a great loss to those cities and a great demonstration of how the influence of the incumbent businesses on these laws. when overcome sin and challenges the laws that define what a taxicab is and what a black car is delivery companies who have long held sway with city councils fight lou burbach and make it impossible for them to bring something unique to the city's customers. the last categories of unnecessary inappropriate and damaging licensing regulations which are fairly anti-competitive, any kind of cap on the number businesses

that are allowed and a they cap on the number of taxicabs or like i mentioned food trucks that may be far away from their competitors. we are preventing entrepreneurs from doing what entrepreneurs do best which is innovating, bringing new ideas to the economy to challenge the folks that are already out there and bring new and exciting services to consumers but also new and exciting jobs for their neighbors. >> thank you bath. one is a point at which we didn't get to the macroquestion is the issue and is worth recognizing which is the whole issue of independent work and self-employment is a growing labor market trend. that is one reason to think about these policies. there are positives as well as negatives and the fact that that's a growing trend we could do a whole forum on that but it's worth taking it --

to some extent it's going to be a labor market. let's get into the really tricky question which is how we move these ideas forward. i have my two commenters on the end. we are going to cue you up right now. christie, i'm going to start with you. you have been working on issues of the national league of cities, the local ones and i want to start by asking the big pitcher question which is if you think about what's going on in cities right now, were on their list is the issue of job creation is an important issue and when they think about job creation do they think about microbusinesses? >> that's a great question and the answer is yes. job creation is still right up there. we have done a number of different types of surveys and interviews with officials from across the country, thinking about things like service provision finances and job creation by the big three we see for sure.

traditionally when we think about job creation and economic development in cities in terms of -- to get there we typically think about economic attraction which is how cities attract these bigger businesses and companies to the immunities. we know it's still important part in economic strategies. they're thinking about economic attraction in different ways which again people hold separate but in more strategic ways. they are also looking towards a much more balanced economic development approach which which include small business and microenterprise development. we know that looking to 2013 and 2014 cities across the country really are looking to the amount of investment they're making in those types of programs. specifically i think it's interesting when i think about my granite price development by

and large it's just regular business development and how do you make the community more business-friendly and the sense that we are not looking attacks policy specifically. we are not looking at how to attract larger businesses but how do you make the local government itself more friendly and compatible with the businesses that potentially can be in the community growing from within the community and really wanting to be in the community. potentially my granite price we talked about as being those businesses that create quality of life in the community but also the prices that have different growth enterprises towards the next larger business community. there are lots of reasons why local governments certainly are looking to a more balanced economic development approach. when they are thinking about small business development danes and what it means for the community it really is how do you increase communication with these businesses and

particularly with my granite prices that may -- that maybe and lower income neighborhoods or potentially within immigrant communities as well and how do you create those services and promote and communicate those services in a way that is linguistically and culturally relevant to these communities as well. >> one of the issues you have been working on at the national league of cities is the issue of how to business licensing regulations get in the way and how do they constrain microenterprises? can you talk about the work you have been doing and maybe give us ideas of cities where there's a lot of interesting work going on in your making progress and what some of the challenges have been? >> you raise a lot of interesting points and i agree with most of those. i think when we are thinking about licenses particularly

licenses and permits there's always a reason why a permit or license is there to begin with but over time as we said unless you take an inventory and take stock and think about why those licenses and permits were there to begin with it keeps getting layered on and layered on until the actual impact is dining job creation and job development in the community. there are lots of places experiencing growth in food trucks more recently so it's an emerging industry that is growing more quickly than city regulations and licenses permits can keep up with. it's also an area of the economy that when cities see as holding a lot of promise for entrepreneurship articulate for my enterprises. what we are seeing at the city level is that communities are dealing with issues related to public health, public safety and all those critical factors to

regulate public space but looking at licensing and permitting as the key impediment to how we support as this is. so how do cities take inventory of what licenses and permits they have in place and what are the impacts of those and what we found by and large is that even those that are proactive in terms of the inventory of those licenses and permits are there is that three to five permits that are required and this is on a positive scale. three to five permits in three to five departments that need to be visited by business themselves. although some of that may not be decreased beyond that three to five departments that need to be visited we know they are also looking at costs of the permits as well.

take a place like boston for example which is known to many as supporting the food truck industry, they have a very comprehensive web site for example that really specifies all the information that anyone who's interested in starting a food truck really needs to know. principle forms, easy access to information and again in cincinnati for example public health is always going to be the key when it comes to food trucks in terms of regulations and permits they will be most concerned with. they have created a one-stop shop for food trucks through their public health department. these are various ways the cities really are looking to support the food trucks in their community. >> sound good, beth? [laughter] i'm going to jump to connie now and come back and talk with

christiana. one of the things that you have worked on in the past is the issue of the workforce investment act and trying to deal with the issue so talk to us about what you did and how that went and what you see is the continuing issues there. >> certainly. i think part of what we try to do working with our state associations across the country is to really get the state level workforce investment boards to understand the value of microbusiness and its role in job creation. as we have already heard the barriers are in the actual policy and terms of how organizations are allowed to certify what they call a placement so that they can be funded.

we have run -- some of our members have created these pilot sites throughout the country that use workforce investment funds. we have actually been able to give a formula and provide alternatives on what could be used. i think the problem has calm that the department of labor oftentimes just doesn't recognize entrepreneurship as job creation. business development, they have said that's not the same as creating a job when he created business. you have a real disconnect in terms of what job creation really is. how it's formulated and when you start a business yes you have created a job. so we are continuing to work to try to get changes but new

changes, if we ever get reauthorized because it still has them some ben, we have the legislators who are ready to add new language towards that bill so it could change automatically any regulations. in 2010, we were instrumental in getting the administrator for the entrepreneurship training component at the department of labor to issue a guidance letter to all the state organizations, all the workforce investment boards around the country, actually telling them in writing that it was okay to use entrepreneurship training. but they actually should encourage the local level to do so. it still didn't happen. we believe that not only do we

need to mobilize more individuals, more institutions, mobilize in terms of making a stronger case to make this change happen and we need to necessarily get regulation change. we think there are all kinds of opportunities through pilots. many want scalable permanent change. we really have to focus on the federal legislation and urge reauthorization and passage of some of the amendments that have been actually offered. >> we are getting a little bit caught up with this problem we have in washington which is not much is new although we are starting to demonstrate some. >> the other day we had -- participate and come on board. we have the other broader issues

in terms of actually getting that reauthorization. but it is gaining more acceptance. i think there is more work to do. i think legislation will happen when we get labor department to address 21st century kinds of moves that really support what they look like now. we don't have necessarily the world we need. we don't have the rules and the laws to support, protect or even count jobs in this country because some of the work created by microbusiness owners isn't even counted as a job. there is a whole trajectory of activity that needs to take place in terms of the department of labor but it needs to modernize and create more rational frameworks for today's 21st century worker including those who are self-employed.

>> thank you. i'm going to go back to the state and local. we talk about cbd g. which is a federally authorized employment program but that assistance and choices about how to allocate that money happened at the state and local level. this is a program that is near and dear to the hearts of local elected officials so can you talk a little bit about what you see as the opportunities and baby the issues in terms of mobilizing more? elaine talked about how it's a relatively small amount of resources that go through the enterprise development can -- that can you talk about what the opportunities and challenges might be? ..

so thinking about a challenges there's a threat to funding to local communities. it's particularly in the environment of increasing the amount of competitive grants to cities versus these flexible funding through formula. so all cities above 50,000 in population receive the funding regardless of need. i think that in of itself puts a challenge on local governments to make the case for why the funding is critical to their communities.

so all of the flexibility is fantastic in getting the funding directly to local communities is really what we want. and community as cro the country are looking for the flexibility in of itself there's a lot of in term of thinking about the type of programs are extremely broad. again, ranging from economic development to neighbor development various type of programs that are allowable under the program name difficult to collect a data that is necessary to measure the performance and the impact of the funding and the programs in the community. so again, i think that is a particular challenge for justifying the continuation of cdpg funding to local communities. you know, on the flip side of that, i think there are ways that cities can think about cdbg

funding and be able to measure the performance and impact of the funds. i think that's going a critical component going forward and this linked directly to a program through the aspen institute the microtracker. just one example is the city of seattle is partnering with state partners and community-based organizations to offer microenterprise training. specifically to immigrants. immigrant microenterprises in the community. they've had a lot of success through their six week business development programs and training. and what they're finding is that these programs actually are having success. they are making an impact. the survival rate of the businesses that go through the program are higher than the national average. the only way they are able to justify that and understand that is through the use of the specific program that is partnering with the aspen institute to implement.

collect the data and performance and have the contact with the microenterprises to be able to assess the impact of the program and the funding itself is making in the community. part understanding what it costs to create the jobses. that's a clear guideline one of the ways they get measured on there. >> absolutely. and the program in seattle, it was started in 2010 with a one time $150,000 dollar program and continuing $75,000 in 2011 and 2012. you got twenty years of the funding that was really a core excuse me supported your work. >> it was very important. again, we weren't the only organization to have it. but it really did go to support microbusiness development and the organization kept it for twenty years. so the importance of that flexibility mentioned and something you can rely on the

local level. so connie, i wanted to come back to you and talk about -- a lot offed advocacy at the federal level. you support the state microenterprise. when you think about trying leverage these different policy systems and idea. the specific around the policy and how much of the problem is greater lack of understanding and lack of thinking about what the role of microbusiness is. we invested time, talent, and resources to the research. the research that aspen does is important because it digs in to what the organizations are doing. what we need to understand on a larger scale, again, 92% of these businesses are microin the country. we need to increase the countries of microbusiness. and so what we found talking to

states in particular is that once they understand these businesses and who you're talking about and recognize that, oh, that's that's my brother has a microbusiness. they never thought of that before. they begin to pay attention. they begin to understand that one size does not fit all. because they believe right now they really are -- as you talked about are, they really are providing policies and programs to support small business. the problem is are barriers to microbusinesses because of there particular side. we found, for example, in oregon, when we are working with our states. microbusiness association and the governor's first lady of

oregon has the program she's actually incorporated micro-- as a part of their prosperity programs. it's a program focused on property alleviation only because of the understanding that she gave by looking at cuba. and so once an government or individual in government develops a better understanding once they have data, they found there is a more willingness to actually start working and thinking about the type of program. we see in chicago, for example, there is a city program that begun to put more emphasis on microbusiness and trying to expand microbusiness and microlending. we have been asked by other cities to help them understand new ways of thinking about what they can do around

microbusiness. we have to bring the data so we get a better understanding and the characteristic of thesess businesses. in the report i mentioned earlier bigger than you think. we've been able to create a typology that describes five dpircht business owners. we think based on there type of self-employment, the characteristic of income and residues and others. we are beginning to understand a lot more about these businesses and their unique challenges and need. what it takes for them to

succeed. the second part will talk about, as said 8,000 bank loans are declined every day in this country to small business owners. and so if we want to change that, we really do have to look at capital access programs, and the kinds of challenges to use those programs whether they're banks or cdfi in term of capacity issues. a number much issues that are presenting these things from being useful. but we have to create better understanding across the board of the businesses and the herd les related to them being able to be successful. great, thank you do. you mind if i open up for questions? one more question but we had a great conversation. i want to take a bit of time to open up for see if we have questions in the room and if not i'll come back and ask the question. if folks have a question, if you can raise your hand, we'll bring

you a microphone and ask you identify yourself and organization and also we have a few minutes for question. if you can be brief with your comments and questions. i said 8,000 loans are decline decade. we think the real reason is the high cost of lending. and whether it's a bank or cdfi. the costs are unnecessarily too high. and a lot of that is bringing down those costs whether it's using technology. looking at different kinds of underwriting that --

using social media and demographic data. a lot of things around big data and technology that can begin to change the business model and the underwriting model used by banks and cdfi to lower the costs. most banks will not make a loan u now days under $250,000. and so one of the things they are doing is -- we form a microcapital task force actually out of the work that -- and secretary have created. they created that bringing in tech companies to a technology company. looking at policy changes needed and changes that can be implemented to a real financial market for $150,000 loans.

>> did you want to add to that? >> a couple of things. a number of years ago, we at the aspen institute did a study trying to understand the market for microloans. and that the point, we found banks were gown downstream, downstream, downstream. reaching smaller and smaller business owners all the time. this is pre 2008, of course, right. and they were using tools of the credit card and enhancement of credit scoring to do that. then 2008 happened. all of a sudden, aware of the risk banks pulled way back up the market. so what has changed a lot in the last five years is that banks have pulled out of a market they were entering at one point. part of that is because they must be more conservative in the underwriting they're doing. leaving that market open and available and underserved. that's where microlenders come in to play. the other thing, and just to follow on connie's comment.

the average loan of a microloan that we track within microenterprise programs as cro the country last year was about $15 ,000. every day. there's also we know many people who never walk in to a bank in the first place because they -- they know they're not getting a bank loan. the question who serves that market. and other organize -- organizations are looking to. do we have other questions? do we have one here? >> hi, there. you can tell us who you are and your organization. >> [inaudible] so we've been talking about different organizations and programs through the government

just different things that try to help microenterprises grow. has there been any work to organize wealthy individuals that invest this in their own. connie? >> go ahead. there are a number of programs you heard -- and some other programs like that. then you have someone like the foundation that has notes that dot individual. i think there's a limit to them. but individuals can invest at the foundation, example. for example. and the funds would go to a bees invested in a cdfi.

those are the two kinds of examples. one is individuals organizations that has strategies where they're doing that and the other is that an investor under a type of strategy that tries to mobilize the funds. >> one thick i add on really talk about here. there's one sort of asset building program in the country one that is a federally funded asset for independence. one of the things you can do is business start-up. then without that federal funding can also raise -- >> there are also groups groups who look at the wide range of applicants and, you know, i've even heard there are rich folks who hang out on kick starter and make generous amount of donations to start off.

[inaudible] interesting and important. one of the questions we have is which entrepreneurs are going to get funded. there may be mechanisms to allow as opposed some of the lower-income entrepreneurs. >> if you care about the issue you should weigh in. because it could really go against what we've been trying to work on. >> was there a question? yes. >> hi, my name is teresa. my question is, what efforts are there that exist or should be made to include the disability community and the disabilities in to the microenterprise development as well as entrepreneurial skills and other assets that may not be given directly to them or assessable for them. anyone i don't know which one would be more -- >> it's a great question. one of the target populations of the field. do you want to talk about that? maybe some others. >> i think historically about 5%

are supported by programs are people with disabilities. at least i've seen that across the years in different data sets we have have had. there is an organization called the ability's funds that has worked closely with microenterprise programs at different locations around the u.s. to try to help those programs understand what barriers they may be unintentionally putting in the way of working with people with disabilities. and helping them revisit their policies, procedures, seability standards, et. cetera, et. cetera. i know, different programs across have been more sensitive than others. but there are models and mechanisms to make that happen. and it's certainly a target population that the field has been interested in. kony, i know over the past years they did education around how to open the doors and reduce barriers to people with disabilities in different ways

through a variety of technical assistance offerings. there has been some efforts to could be many more initiatives of that type. but i think the field has understood that's an important constituency. >> i would just agree there's a huge opportunity for more. i think one issue we face is a lack of awareness of the program. aeo had gave an award -- and so i think trying to get more recognition and opportunities through increase rep indication of working moldses is huge and as well as the things we're try dog to promote that particular model but raise the disability of the programs overall.

with. >> we are at 1:30. i want to draw to a close. i want to thank my panelists today. thank you for being here and your contributions today and most importantly for the work that provides the basis for -- i want to thank don again for being with us and setting the teenage so nicely. one is that the paper and not the microenterprise one. there's a website for big ideas for jobs.org. we are going to do a second event focusing on a couple of papers on the series. they are going to focus on the opportunities that and policies that can support the work that social enterprises do that anchor institutions like hospitals and educational institutions and others can do to create jobs, again, specifically focused on individuals and communities that

have a largest challenge and attaching to our economy. so we don't have a date for that. we're working on it. and so we'll send in the date to all of you, again, since you've been with us today. look for it in the next couple of weeks. thank you, again, for joining us today. have a happy thanks give. shop small business on saturday. [laughter] [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] this evening we bring you a symposium about question genetic. a look at the public policy and

privacy issue surrounding genome testing. it's part of the tenth circuit bar conference. it's tonight on c-span2. 50 years ago today lbj reflected on kennedy's legacy. it was five days after his assassination. you can see it tonight starting at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. and tonight on c-span 3. the clinton prcial library release of more than 300 newly classified documents on intelligence gathering during the 1992 to 1995 boss knee bos knee began war. it's at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span 3. new jersey governor recently sat down for a conversation with "the wall street journal" editor in chief. the newly elected republican governor talked about his record

and view on policy. [inaudible conversations] >> sure. >> sure. thank you. governor, thank you very much, indeed, for being with us. congratulations, you week squeaked home in new jersey. a close election. you weren't quite going get the 60% threshold. >> i'm a republican new jersey i'm worried about getting over the finish line. it was a gratifying evening. >> what was striking to look at the detail at the exit polls. you won 50 percent of the latino vote. you won over 20% of the black vote. you won 58% of women. all in a state where president obama won 58% of the votes a year ago. a lot of questions about the future of the republican party. how did you do it? >> well, i think the first thing is you do your job.

you know, i often think that folks make political leadership too complicated. what people expect you to do is do your job. first and foremost. i think the folks in new jersey republican -- you can't go six months before the election. we started working with those groups giving them a serious seat at the table. knowing that they weren't always going agree with our policies but listened to. i think that was a very

important part of the victory as well. the last piece i would say that campaigns still do matter. and so i was fortunate to have an outstanding campaign team that worked with me for the last five years. it they knew me. these are not folks who parachuted in from washington or someplace else or ideas about me. they knew me, my voice, what i would be willing to do and not willing to do. >> you have become a national figure in the last four years. tell us what you think you did that was most effective. i don't necessarily mean in terms of getting re-elected but in changing the political trajectory that new jersey was on. you did a number of things on taxes. what did you think was the most important thing you have achieved so far? >> you know, i think we reform the pension and benefit system

to save 120 billion over the next 30 years. all in the face of stiff public sector union opposition. but i think the most important thing we did was change the conversation. i mean, you know, so many of these things were considered give fhfa new jersey that cannot be changed. and our position was i'm a republican in new jersey. i'm playing with house money. i'm not supposed to be there. i'm not supposed to be arrive. so, you know, the fact is if you get elected in the context, then you have two choices. you can either try to figure out, you know, how to try to play everything perfectly from the conventional wisdom perspective, or you just say the hell with it. i'm doing it my way and work or done. it it works i might have a chance if it doesn't i'm going to lose. i'm going change the conversation we took on most importantly in changing the conversation very early on in the beginning. we took on the teachers union. it's the most powerful union in

our state. private or public sector. they have 200,000 members in new jersey. and they get annual dues of $140 million. and from those dues they do in the pay anything of teachers salary, pension, or health care. essentially $140 million slush found reward their friend and punish their enemies. we took them on frontally early. and i think they never expected any politician in new jersey to do that. and the public reacted extraordinarily well. it showed we were willing to take on the biggest bully in the schoolyard. >> is there a national lesson for that? who are the national equivalent of the new jersey's teachers union? >> national teachers' union. [laughter]

it's not hard. i mean, you know, because really, that's hard for a president, isn't it? i'm jumping ahead of myself, governor. that's hard to do at the national level, isn't it? because teachers are organized on a local basis and, you know, paid by a local authority. >> but you're talking about setting a tone. and you have to point out to people as rupert mentioned in his remarks. the education system in our country while there are successes is in the main failing many, many millions of families in our country and any one of these ceos knows that the only way that american companies or international companies that work in america are going to be able to thrive on such an educate work force. it doesn't start when you get to college. and so, you know, i think it is the defining issue of our time. what we're going do with the

education system in america. you said define us as the best. it's now the defining us as mediocre. >> is it producing results already? are you getting better satisfaction among parents? >> in certain places we are. in other place it's too soon to tell. because, for instance, you look at the city of newark. our largest city. we pay $24 ,000 per pupil per year for the public education in newark. two years the graduation rate was 23%. now, i don't know how you define failure, i think it's pretty good. where i held my election night celebration, we pay $30,000 per pupil per year. and two years ago, less than 50% of the young people who graduated from the high school could read at the eighth grade level. so, you know, somehow with the teachers union, this is at

debate about whether that's failure or not. my opponent, who was endorsed by the teachers union said when was it pointed out we have 200 failing schools in new jersey. her response was that's not a bad percentage. and they asked me for my response it sounds like someone who never sent their children to one of those school finance you send your school to that's the difference between in my view, at this point, the republican view of what needs to be done with education in america, and the democrat/teachers union view. which is the status quo is fine and eventually get to fixing those place finance your kid is in that classroom eventually is not enough. >> your opponent might say you change the conversation. new jersey's unemployment elevate somewhere over 8%. one of the highest in the nation. you haven't had a particularly strong recovery. other states have done better.

what do you say? what is why haven't -- why didn't new jersey produce more jobs? >> all the critics that come to new jersey and attempt to turn around the queen mary in the delaware river. the fact is we are the highest tax state in america when i took over as governor. we were the rated the state with the least business friendliness in america. we had raised taxes and fees 115 times in eight years at the state level. you're not going turn it around in four years completely. we have cut taxes $2.3 billion. cut and created private sector jobs in the last year from august 12 to august 13 new jersey ranked in the top 15 private sector job creation. it's going take us longer. if we were in the deepest of deep holes in a state that

followed a liberal democrat doctrine far decade. there's no tax you can't raise or create. and you can't raise it high enough to drive people out of your state. boston college did a study between you're and '08 in our state in the heart of the time a democratic govern mans. $70 billion in wealth left our state. you don't recover from that, jerry, like that. it's going to take awhile. i think look at my number and year five, six, seven they continue, i think, in the trajectory they are going in now. >> you expect to see real economic dividends? >> i do. and also, you can't everything is relative in comparison between the states. i expect us to continue to be more competitive. for instance a state like new york is moving in the wrong direction. you see taxes being increased there and you have a new mayor in new york aggressively talking about increasings taxes in new york city.

come to new jersey. come true -- come through the tunnel you decided not to build it or not. it never would have been built. >> this is what new jersey hates the most. you want to be a popular politician. cancel the tunnel. here is why, one it was the smart thing to do. but secondly, the deal that was negotiated by my predecessor, a wizard of business, apparently, was that -- well, it's true. you may not like it. but it's true. and his subsequent performance shows that as well. after he left the governorship. the fact is that -- among friends. >> of course. and, you know, hard truth needs to be told. the fact is the negotiation he made with the federal government was that new jersey would contribute about $3 billion to this project. and would be responsible for

every nickel of the cost overrun of the problem. new york city: zero. new york state: zero. for a tunnel, that is going it take people predominantly to new york. and was not going to go to pen station where people could get on subsequent mass transit to get other places in the city. it was going to have basement of macy's. six stories below it a $1 billion -- >> miracle on 34th street. >> the miracle would be if it happened. and folks say why did you cancel it? my answer is why the hell would i ever build it? we're going to be responsible for every nickel of cost overruns in a federal transportation project. nothing to worry about there; right? go talk to our friends in boston and ask if they want to be responsible. an this was the single largest

federal transportation project going to be done. i canceled it because it was a bad deal for the people of new jersey and there's nothing that new jersey hates more and more suspicious of than getting stuck to them by new york. [laughter] >> that's a good opportunity to talk about national issues. on your election night, and your election and victory speech you talked about how what you achieved in trenton. working across the aisle, achieving sort of political consensus that worked and there were lessons in washington. what other lessons for washington? what is wrong right now? washington? that is a long list. i don't go through all of it. tell me what you would change in washington right now. >> the people. predominantly. [laughter] >> just one? >> both parties have equal blame in what is going on here. listen, i have a completely democratic legislature in new jersey. 24/16 in the state senate. it's not like it's close,

everybody. this is strongly democrat. how do we get pension reform done? how do we cap property taxes, and cut business taxes and do all of these things that don't appear to be traditional democratic things with a democratic legislature? it's about human relationships. i mean, you know, the fact of the matter is nobody in the city talks to anybody each other. or don't speak to each other civilly. they don't develop relationships or any sense of trust between each other. then they expect when the kind of problems you talk about that video come up big, difficult, contentious problems, they're going to be able to get to a room and fix it. >> who do you blame for that? >> first and foremost. the president. if you're the executive you're the person in charge of making it happen. it it i wait for the leaders in the legislature to wait for them to come to me. they are elected not lead. [laughter] that's it.

members of congress, members of state legislature they don't have a responsibility to lead. and they always have an excuse. if you let them. the executive is the person that is held responsible. so first and foremost, the president has not -- this is no news flash to anybody here. he's not developed the relationships that have been necessary on a personal level with both sides of the aisle -- both sides of the aisle to be able to bring people to the white house and be a consensus builder to drive the force. i was watching one of these numerous specials on the last week or so on the assassination of president kennedy. there was one particular piece on the warren commission. and putting president johnson put together the warren commission. they played a tape of president on the phone with richard russell. he said i don't want to be on the commission. i don't like easterly earl warren.

johnson said i don't take no. and he said you're getting no and he said it's too bad it's been announced. what did he do? he served. because he knew johnson, johnson knew him. in the end when i go oned these lower house relationships with democratic legislature over time. you have comprise at time. you don't walk away with everything you want. if i walk away with 70% of my agenda. it's 70% better than otherwise. and what we have unfortunately in washington on both sides of the aisle at times are absolutists. when we -- >> a month or so ago we went through the government shut down. you know, you criticized the president but obviously you've been critical of your own party too. who was to blame for that? what are the lessons you think should be learned from that? >> both sides were to blame for that. it was a train wreck everybody saw coming for month. which was the president.

it's not like you forgot the calendar. everybody knew when it was happening. and i think that there were a number of people in congress on the republican side of the aisle who, you know, just did not have an end game to a strategy. >> are you talking about ted cruz. >> i'm not doing -- i get myself in enough trouble without your help. >> the strategy defunding obamacare as a condition for keeping the government open is a bad one, is that what you're saying? >> well, since obamacare is currently being funded and the government is reopened, i maybe i'm too simple but it appears to me that the strategy of defunding by closing the government failed. [laughter] and some people believe it's the right thing to do. that's fine. they can believe it was the right thing to to. you can rail against obamacare and opposed to it. i've been in new jersey, you can refuse to run a state-base exchange because you know the whole process is a train wreck

as i've done in new jersey. but not then subscribe to the notion that your job in running the golf -- government is to close it. your job is to run it and effectively and efficiency. all the people down here from the president to the leadership in congress who engaged in this stuff failed. by definition. and why are people more appreciative of what goes on at the states? we are actually doing our jobs. >> on obamacare, do you think obamacare can survive this mess that its in right now? or completely scrapped and start again? >> obamacare is a failure. it's always been a failure and not succeed. it just won't. and -- >> how would you replace it? >> well, by sitting here and going through a complex issue with 16: 26 to go. but the fact is -- >> you can have 14 of that. >> 14 i'm only scratching the surface. that's the problem.

with all due respect, that's part of the problem with the culture here. is that somebody thinks that i can solve obamacare in 14 minutes. and solve the health care crisis in 14 minute and i have 30 second on iran and 22 second on syria. and we'll solve the whole thing. let's carve it out. these are complex problems. and people are tired of these focus group tested blow dried answers that people give. that all sound the same. and someone asked me during the campaign, you know, why is that you get so much attention. i said because unlike most politicians. i don't sound like charlie browne's teacher. [laughter] well, -- it all sounds the same. so here is what i'm going tell you. obamacare is wrong. it's a failure. it's the most extraordinary overreach of government power in the history of our country.

and it's being run by people who have never run anything. so why are we surprised it's failing? it's failing because the people never run anything in their lives and even if they knew how to run things it would be hard to run because extraordinary overreach taking over the entire economy. so it's a failure. what do we need to replace? a robust debate among both sides unlike last time with the president jammed it down everybody's throat and got not one republican vote not willing to make one comprise including tort reform. this time we need a robust conversation between both sides. everybody brings skin to the table and everybody comprises and if we do that. then we can craft the solution. if we don't, we'll continue to have this failure. >> so you said it seems to be, you know, objectively obvious that the defund obamacare and shut down the government strategy failed.

how ask the g.o.p. get itself in the position where it was associated with the position for such a long time? how did it happen? >> bad decision making. you know, and a lack of courage. i mean, that's really it. we all saw it on display. and the sphact that the democrats were as guilty. because, you know, harry reid plays the same kind of games. we're not going to fund that. even though they believe in funding those things. he was going it? why. good public policy to close all the monumentses in town? good public policy not fund the military where it should be funded in the places it should be funded? of course knop not. if you ask if he was good public policy. he wouldn't answer. he would pivot to the republicans are the cause of this problem. well, come on. the fact is, he didn't do that because he saw political advantage in not doing that. i'm fine with the republican party taking their share of the blame.

but i'm not fine with the republican party taking all the blame. because harry reid and nancy pelosi played as many games as the folks on the republican side did. and so we need to, you know, drop down some of the partisan cloak here and say both sides failed here. and we had an enormous failure of executive leadership by a president who seemed unwilling or unable or uninterested in being engaged. >> you had a great platform coming up. this week taking over the chairmanship of the republican governor association. 30 republican governors across the country. how are you going use the platform. what is your agenda for them? >> republican governors. >> how do you that? >> tell with our 22 incumbent up for reelection in 2014 every one has a great story to tell about what they have done in their state, accomplished, and achieved. my job is make sure they have the resources they need to tell the story and hopefully to give

them some strategic advice on the west -- way to reach out and broaden the base of voters in the state. in the 14 other states whether either democratic incumbent or open seats. it's my job to try to identify talented challengers to come in and challenge in those states. to make sure they're funding and help them with strategy as welt. but my job is to be supportive of those 36 races. to make the strategic choices about where we should invest the most money. to yield the greatest success. and it's not a lot more complicated than that. >> does mean you'll be spending time in iowa, new hampshire. i think the incumbent republican. >> there's a republican incumbent republican governor terry branstad in iowa. he's the longest serving.

we have andy i'll also be? states like south carolina and pennsylvania and ohio and florida, michigan, arc arc. we'll be all other the country raising money and try to help folks raise their identity level with the voters because i think if we get a chance to tell our story we'll do quite well. >> we have 30 republican governors now out of 50. we've been doing well. >> a lot of people were keen on you to run for president in 2012. you turned down the opportunity then. when do you make up your mind about 2016? >> when i have to. >> which is when? >> i don't know. it depends on what the politics of the world are like then. >> is there another candidate right now you can get behind? another republican candidate you say you can back them? >> there's a number of people who would make really good presidents. but, you know, whether i would

support them or not depends on, you know, the politics of the time as well and continue to develop. there's work done in the country. we minimize his ability to effectively executive. we shouldn't do that. so i'm not rushing. i have work to do. i got re-elected governor. i have an agenda i want to pursue in the next two years with the next legislature i have. and i'll make the decision when i have to. it was director with the people in my state. people confronted me a number of times. my opponent frequently during the campaign in the debates about serve a full term. i don't know. if i decide to run for president, you know, if i don't. i will. but, you know, i don't have to

make that decision now. i think people make decisions and i think the folks who run companies here know this. when you make decisions before it's the right time to make them, you increase geometricically the chance to screw that decision up. that's not something i want to screw up. >> you speak very directly. unusual for a politician. >> thank you. >> so you have spoken directly about some republican and hinted tonight. there are people in the republican party you think that maybe you have been too direct and critical of republicans and that doesn't play very well. they didn't like the fact many of them you seem to have a warm relationship with president obama a year ago just around the hurricane sandy anne the work you have done there. have you got some work to go with the republican base to assure them you a solid republican. >> how incredibly outrageous. your state has been hit by the worse storm and the federal government comes and you

actually say he did a cup of the things. t the most outrageous ever performed. it's ridiculous. the fact is, i speak candidly about everyone. and when the president does something worth praising. ly praise him. when he does something worth damming i'm damn him. i'm not making it based upon my party. i'm going make it based upon the facts. and so i think most republicans except for, you know, a few who like to see themselves on television. understand what you expect of an elected official first and foremost is honesty. the second thing is performance. and i think the people of new jersey just judge me based upon honesty and performance we got 61% of the vote. some say because i got 61 of the vote in new jersey must not be conservative. it's crazy to me. in other words among these

elements, the better you do, the more voters you attract, the more diverse voters you attract. the more suspect you are. well, there is a winning formula. let me tell you. there's a winning formula. [laughter] no, i don't feel like i have any fence mending do. i'm going me. and if i ever decide to run for anything again, if being me isn't good enough then fine. i'll go home. you know, this isn't my whole life. and so, you know, my mother used to say all the time. i said it on election night. to me and my brother and sister. be yourself. because then tomorrow you don't have to worry about remembering who you pretended to be yesterday. you never have to worry about that with me. i'm never remembering who i pretended to be. if that's good enough for folks in my party, independents, democrats. that's great. it was good enough in new jersey two weeks ago.

if it's not good enough in any other election i might pursue. i'll find some work. >> we have minutes for questions in the floor. very much. you have somewhat very outspoken governor speaking to you. it if anybody wants to ask any questions. anybody have think -- there will be some microphones around. let me ask you about the presidential campaign last year with mitt romney. according to some published reports recently they considered you very carefully for the vice president slot. i'm not sure how carefully you

considered being the running mate. and raised some questions about your background. you have seen it recently about some ethical questions about your time as u.s. attorney and questions remitted to your brother. you're going get a lot of scrutiny whether you run north. the press is, you know, is going to be examining you very carefully. have you, you know, the romney campaign according to the account published in the book published recently didn't get satisfactory answers. >> it's not true. all you have to do is thereon romney. he's the only guy who got to make the decision. and what governor romney said publicly since the book came out. let face it about the book. it's a book where these two authors troll at the lower level of campaigns to get gossip, which they then put in between two hard covers and because they put it between two hard covers it becomes authorityive. the fact is the authoritative

source on my bidding as a vice president candidate is the guy who did it. who said there was nothing in the vetting that gave him any pause. nothing already in the public realm before. and was not the reason that he didn't ask me to be vice president. so i'm pretty much content with that. it and listen, as far as scrutiny i'll get plenty of it. i'm not worried. some will be fair if not unfair. if you're abouted that in the business you don't belong in the business. >> new jersey like your directness. >> the people? >> no the press. >> the press in new jersey. yeah. well, so you to ask them. [laughter] i have a good relationship. listen, if they ask a good questions and i good answers and makes good copy for them. if they ask stupid questions i tell them it's stupid. it's a relationship they should have any candidate with a media. >> i think you make good --

>> over there, please. whaing we want to know what does it take for a republican candidate to beat hillary. can you do that? >> i have no idea if i can do it. but listen, i think the question should be broader. what does it take for a republican candidate to win? and we have to do better than the last two cycles. we have to reach out to other constituencies that have no voters in the past. we better be doing it now. the fact is our country is changing as it always does. as our country changes demographically and economically, you know, people who want to lead first have to understand who they're asking to lead. and they need to listen to those people. i think leadership is just as much about listening as about talking. for republican, you know, we can't get the percentages of the hispanic vote and the

african-american vote we have gotten nationally and continue to think we can be a successful national party. we have to do better. and this isn't just about policies. it's not. there's plenty of my policies i pursued in new jersey that folks within those communities disagree with. yet they voted for me anyway. triple the number of african-american voters we got in 2009. a majority 51% of hispanic voters. i think it's because they felt like they were included. their opinions mattered. that i listened. and that when i made decisions they didn't have to hear about it someplace else. they heard it from me. good or bad news they heard it from me. i think we have to stop as a party going back to all the old tried and true ways of run the campaigns. they're not working. and we need someone who is going to be clear, direct, authentic, and say what they think. and if that's good enough. it's good enough. if not t not. but changing things around changing positions trying to look in to somebody's eyes and

say what does he want to hear? try to figure out. that's sad and pray to god he remembers that you actually prompted -- promises to do that. that's not the way to win. in the long-term. i think and build movement. >> one more question. another question? yes. >> i'm richard of free port -- when you were talking about the affordable care act, you mentioned we had a government that had people who did not know how to do things. have you given thought to as president i know it's pretty mature. how would you put together a federal government of people who know how to do things? >> i don't know. because i've never been president. what i will tell you is, as governor, i have people in my cabinet of both parties. i have people in my cabinet who

i took out of private sector business and come out my commissioner of transportation. the guy who ran private sector business and running transportation department runs it like a business. i have other folks who have, you know, experience in human services. who, you know, are not business people but have been career social workers. who understand that world better than i do. my general rule is that i want most people in the room with me to be smarter than me. legitimately smarter than me. that's not my job to be the smartest guy in the room. my job is to make decisions. and the way i make decisions and the way i trust many of you do is listen you to the folks so you around you, the cabinet you build whether running a corporation or running a government. and you listen to those people and you reach out then think about it then you're the one in the room with the will to

decide. and that is the hardest thing to find, in my experience. it's harder to find that than find people who know more than me or smarter than me. that's not what i'm hired for. the way you put together a group you say i want people expert in area and practical experience. i want people who are honest, i want people who will speak truth to power. i want people who are willing to quit because they don't need this job. it isn't their whole life. you put that group of people together. you'll have a lot of heart burn over time but also, i think, have the best chance to have the kind of information you need to make really good decisions. and then so you have to be unafraid to decide. and i think that is the far mat for any successful enterprise. and i don't think government is any different.

i don't think it is any more imraicted. there are some complications because they don't want to be in public life because of the scrutiny. you have to try to be persuasive. t identifying talent. i tell people you can't teach smart and you can't teach loyal. you can teach everything else. when i became governor, i brought 27 assistant united states attorneys with me to government. 25 of them had no experience in state government. zero. and i had a bunch of people in trenton tell me it's going to be a disaster. they don't know how the town works. it and i said to all of them, you can't teach smart and you can't teach loyal. they are smarter than anybody in the room and throil me and know how i want things done. when there's no confusion about that, you've got smarts in the people around you and they have loyalty to you and the mission you're attempting to accomplish.

you can accomplish anything. the third piece of that for trenton, was i said they didn't understand. we didn't care how we didn't know things works. we intended to change things. they did and they have and still continue to. because of those people and their loyalty, their intelligent and willingness to stand with me to get the mission completed. so i think no matter what enterprise you're running whether it's a fortune 500 company or a state government or the federal government, those are the elements to put together a successful operation. ..

>> the 60s were different. [laughter] and there were