calling. -- coin. and as the army flight in the navy flag and all of the service members. thank you very much. [applause] . .

[applause] >> next, "q&a" with authors al

list and ronald radosh. and at 7:00 a.m., your calls on washington journal. coming this fall, tour the home to america's highest court, the supreme court on c-span.

>> allis, tell me how you met your husband. jo well, that's a long story. i met my husband at one of the last demonstrations at the war at column beaa university jochlt what were you doing there? >> i was protesting the war. i had met him maybe a year before. we had both gone to the university of wisconsin. we met atz÷)us' poea university in 1972. >> why was he legend dari at the

university of wisconsin? >> well, i was a history major and he had already made his place as an historian and in the left wing circle. >> why were you left wing? >> i began and got caught up in that. it was really, my peers all around me felt the same way in wisconsin. it seemed natural to adapt those views. although i really didn't have those views in high school. >> what's your version of the story. facts are the same. i went to a different kind of high school. i wrote about that. i went to a high school

affiliated with the little red school house. the alumni of that school was like a whos who of the old left and new left. they all went there. peter paul and mary. it was a who's who of the left. i went very much on the left and in the begins of the new left. i was well-known on campus. i was a leader of the wisconsin socialist club.

>> this book, co mfrp mi was writ especially in what year? >> i don't remember anymore. maybe 2001. >> you kind of let it all hang out here? why? >> i wanted to write a political memoir with a light touch and not took yourself too seriously and have a lot of fun, which i does. >> if i figure right, you've been married 34 years. how much politics was your relationship based on? >> i would say in the early years after we met at the anti-war movement demonstration that for many years, we both considered ourselves on the

left. we pretty2f much shifted away together. >> allis was so left when i met her. what changed sn you >> i consider myself a moderate conservative on the sercenter. fiscally conservative and foreign policy generally hawk ish and i'm a tough nashville security stance. we'll talk about say safe haven in a moment. i want to ask you how many of these books your husband has

writt written. >> with did red star over hollywood together. >> we more or less did the research together. i did a little more reorganizing the terms the out loins for each chapter. ron took it and wroelt the first draft and passed it back and forth about five times. >> what book is this for you? >> 14 or 15. >> we feel we accomplished a

great narrative of history telling a story fairly unknown or untold. this is allis' idea. >> this book is about what? >> truman when he identified israel as a state making america the first koirpt to do sob=í we

tried integrate the story from different views. you see at the time what the people who were involved. whether they were involved in the unn participation vote or whether they went through the participation of palestinian. all the narratives are commissioners. we both have ph.ds in history.

many historians don't know how to write. it intrigued us to begin with that there could possibly not be

an israel. roosevelt never would have done what true man did >> roosevelt during the war was really playing both sides. he wouldn't have been able to keep this up. >> the very last people roosevelt saw before he had a stroke, the last two visitors in the white house were representatives of the american jewish committee, which at that time were a non-sdieonnist

group. he stated that the king of arabia scared him. jewish state. that was his position. that was the last interview. he had told the sdieonnist leader something different a few month earlier. >> you state in your book, that f.d. r. i doed in 1945.

truman passed this in 1948. >> it took three years. >> what is a zionist? >> a jewish person who believes in their right to their home. >> back in those years 1945-1948, how many people lived in the palestinian area? >> by 1945, there were 600,000 jews in palestinian. a lot had come during world war

ii. there was always a jewish presence in palestinian. the outline of palestinian is what? >> at the beginning palestinian embraced jordan. it was in 1972 that the british lopped off jordan and created a separate country. sdfrp ionist would argue that the rest of palestinian was supposed to be the state.

they comprimised and agreed to a much smaller area it maept a separate jewish state and arab  state. i'm looking over towards israel. what do i see? at the time jews in america were about the same, right?

>> yes. american policy should be friendly to the arab states. access to oil and they were blowing investments to oil and sendly military basis.

they were adamant about that. >> what did he see over in the defense department? >> a similar view point. his main concern was oil.

some people believe he did not like juz. they would make statement that's indicated that jews as well as a jewish state. they also had a few clever arguments. it was a well ex-tensive joint memo on this issue. io in terms of the writing and the style. it was signed by both he and henderson. he said one of the reasons you should not have a jewish state

is because it would create a backlash in the united states. jews would be seen as having a duel loyalty he argued, don't support a jewish state there. >> who runs palestinian in those years after he became president? >> well the british had the mandate over palestinian. >> where did they get it? >> from the league of nations after world war i. in what way, if i lived in palestinian, i answered to a british governor. >> yes. they were trying to keep the peace. there was a lot of conflict

there. when you were talking to the republicans then, they did not call themselves palestinians. they had their own administration and local government. they were run by a group of elected leaders called the jewish agency.

>> you get this from all the state department. they would send back the memo. there is really a jewish state that exists. when we recognize it, if we recognize it, they would say. we are just recognizing reality. >> in your research, did you find any idea of what the american people thought back g

then. a poll showed that of the americans that knew about the possibility of there being a state there was widespread support for such a state. >> we had one staiment from he had win johnson of colorado. a report that johnson had given a speech.

there was a large portion of christian zionists who supported the creation of a jewish state. wagoner was an american of the american-christian community. jo i am again looking at the un. what am i seeing there? jo the un had just been created. it was a question of whether

truman was going to follow through. this was roosevelt's dream and he died before the first meeting. the un had no choice. it was tloern in their lap. you get a sense that larry truman was all alone. >> that's not true. there were a lot of people in the white house stavp staff who were prozions.

there were two, patterson andéb snieder who were more sim pathetic to that view. >> henry wall as was also. very jochlt when you march up to the point harry truman had to make a decision, who was the secretary of the state? >> there were three. he told them, i support your zion goals but i am very concerned about the option.

trueman was very much caught in the middle. it was touch and go. it gave him a little extra day. >> the un would then have to come out for a revised former trusteeship rather than

partition. >> if any of your listeners were list especiallying today. in the american media, the american and chief, a woman was 100% zion. committed to the cause of the state. including personal lobbies about the reason there has to be a jewish state.

a leader of the palestinian era andn( organized arab troops to join in the area during the war. she exposed the ties of the pollers who were lobbying to run and control the arab areas. they wondered how did she get this. did you go back and look at the

press coverage. >> was it a big story? >> that would always be mainlior stories. the press was filled with reports about that. >> with trips especially to the ex-did yous. one thing i found that was interesting was what actually happened at the un. they created a commission and went to europe and went to look at the refugee camps and palestinian. we have a lot of great stories

about that. the british sent their gun ships and tried send them back to germany. >> you also mention the st. louis. j it was september to cuba. roosevelt did not let them land. he's been krit sdiezed for not allowing the boat to come here. the cubans wouldn't let it land. roosevelt put more has been krit sdiezed that he didn't res cuba

harder to let them in. when these commissions went to skam inwhat they wanted, they talked to the arabs and jewish leaders. the d. p. stance in europe. >> d. p. meaning? jo displaced persons. we have a foet toe there. we all want to go to mrip.

some of them did go to poland. they couldn't go back and did not woopt to go back and for very good reasons. >> back in those early days, would you have been zionists? >>ia, probably. >> you came from jewish families? >> yes. >> sam you'll j. rosenman said when i started out working for f.d. r., i was an anti-zionist

>> my family was from eastern europe. i didn't have any relatives in europe. >> do you know when you first had a consciousness about the jewist state? >> there were always people i knew who were involved. it was always there. ird friends who went to kabutzs during the summer. >> my parents were part of the old american bhñleft.

>> can you remember when you first thought about the issue? >> yes. we had cousins who ended up in mexico. some of these cousins, my second cousin, came through to the united states and stayed at our apartment on their way to israel. they were going to settle in israel with probably the left

wing zionist group. they came through. i knew we had relative that's were going to settle there. >> what was the vote in the un? jo it was very close. i don't remember the exact number. >> do you remember who was on what kied sdieon had a lot of supporters. the big surprise was that the rush your honors supported partitionian. nobody expected that. they was a really big surprise at the united nations.

>> one week before the famous speech at the unite the nations in favor of a jewish state. dean russ presented a long memo saying the soviets were adamantly against the state. the text and the words of his speech, it was a plea for justice as the american people. >> the policy was not there in

the speech. the speech sounds like a tough zion speech that took everyone by complete surprise. if you look at world population of jews. there's 6 million year, five or six in israel. >> i think there was a lost sympathy, especially in western europe about what had happens to the jews. the french were big supporters. countries in dispute. particularly latin america. >> this was a huge effort to get the philippines at the last

minute, through a big decision and confusion. he timely gave the word we want to go all out. we don't want to high pressure these states. let them decide what they want. that thanksgiving break came and it looked like that partition went loose. go out there and get them to change their votes. >> i eddie jacob son played an important role. opening the doors to the white house who was very inflewen shal. together they exerted a positive pressure twroerds favoring.

eddie jacobson was a very old friend of truman from biz they had met then. during world war i, they ended up in the same bat alian. jacob son did so. it was very successful. it helped truman get promoelted in the army. during the war, they were both kind of at loose ends and they decided to go into business together. it only lasted one or two years. then there was the depression. the two men always maintained their friendship with each other. >> this was a close friend. jacob son passed away. he was the only friend like a

brother who considered him like family. he said he could not imagine him without. he was a reformed jew who quickly began reading the newspapers. he 9/11ly said this is the fate of my people, my ñbretheran in europe. on his own expense.

he took all of his money to constantly travel back and forth to kansas city to washington, d.c. in this time critical meeting, truman was at times fed up from the pressure he is getting. he made a strict rule. no more zionists coming to see me. i just can't take it anymore. truman respected weisman. he was a scientist.

he helped support the first time a jewish homeland was discussed. world war i arm a meants with the british. >> truman respected him. the difference between the militant zionists. we mention the milt tant zion min of america. truman was red in the face and furious. he said never let that man again in here. i never want to see him. eddie jacobson said to him,

please, this is really important to me. you know of whitesman. you know what he's like. it's imperative that you see him. trueman thought about it and said all right you bald headed s. o. b., you win. i'm setting up a meeting. it was after partition. the state department was trying to undermine part tigs. they very much wanted him to get in to see truman marshal knew

europe. when it comes to palestinian, i deefr. i'll take their advice. he said that was sound. i'm going to go along with them. as we said, the state department was in the beginning. the state department consciously sout until the last day to reverse the policy and go back to having the u.s. support he

set, this is a big conspiracy he was correct about that. we saw how much so. they literally were conspireing to change the policy. you have this may 12 meeting. clark cliff order was of course or had been then become another christian zionist. a former advisor to the president. he had been working with him and

believed. >> he had said, what is clark cliff order doing in this room. he was loyal if marshal had gone public, the whole thing would have fallen apart.

still, no one knew. there was a press conference the day before. what are you goi to do if the jews declare a state. he had already decided and told only hiam whitesman. he then came out. doe claired the jewish state and signed the recognition it was all over. >> who was supporting and wasn't supporting? >> the "new york times" was skeptical. in the end, they stepped back and said, we'll have to see what

happens. >> if you were an american jew, why would you not be a zion? >> there were some american jews who felt that they would be accused of duel loyalty. they were perfectly happy in america. they didn't want their status to be acted in any way. they argued that juthey were a

religion. >> what do you think george har shal would say today? would he say i fold you so? >> he might. >> meeting with the leaders in israel. right before truman's announcement the state

department based on his own scombirns bloebed that the jews of republican could not win. they were0cx wrong about that t argued that then the osama would be committed. they won convinced that they could and would win. they were right about that. jo who were some of the early people and names we might know. david ben dpfrn orian, the first

prime minister of israel. he had gone there in the 19 tos or maybe even earlier from the soef yacht union. we were very shocked that marshal didn't know who it was. his name was mentioned. they said, who is he? we never heard of him. eliaser who went to the american university in beruit, spoke five languages. he first represented the jewish

agency in america. he became the first ambassador from israel to the united states. >> you've mentioned several people who changed their name. >> one of the things they did when they created a jewish state. they wanted to make hebrew the official language. they made a rule at first. yidish was forbidden. everybody had to learn hebrew. we are going to create a jewish state with hebrew as the language. all those -- the famous first long-time ambassador of the united states from israel, whitesman was his mentor.

he wept to london. he changed his name to abba. they all took hebrew names. >> when you talk about the religious state. the last time somebody told me that only 25% of the israels are synagogue going. >> the leaders and founders of israel weremo secular zionists. they had created the labor society. these were secular socialists. why then today are so many rules over there based on religion? >> they had to make a comprimise with the jews there that were

religson. part of the comprimise is that they would let them set some of the social rules. >> we were talking about when the two of you met and got married. writing a book together, does that help or hurt a marriage. >> we are great partners. we have this in common. where he can travel together and put together a story. >> we have different strengths. allis is a great organizer. >> i find it tedious to organize and put together material. she does that, has no problem with it. sme creates this outline and puts this stuff together and arranges it. then i do a first draft. we actually rewrote this book at least four times. >> we kept passing it back and

forth and rewriting it. >> that's the difference between the beginning and the end? >> the first version to the last. >> the process of kuling it down, making it readable, cutting out parts of it. how long did you work on the book? >> 2.5 years. one summer, we never left the air conditioned house. >> what do you want people to get out of it? >> we want them to know the full story and what part the various players had in it. we very purposely did it as a narrative history. you can see trueman sitting in

the white house and how he is pressured. >> you can see truman responding and deciding what to do. it's a great story of presidential power and how it plays out and how he made decisions and what lead him to take this dramatic step. >> the name radosh, why did that pronunciation come from? >> that's how my parents said it. rabbi in poland. they grew up and my father left the small town and went to warsaw and came to the united

states. it was a polish-jewish name shortened. >> thank you for coming. harry s. truman and the founding of israel. >> thank you very much. much. >> next, live, your calls and comments on washington journal. and live at 10:00 a.m., the senate confirmation hearing for supreme court justice judge sotomayor and at 12:30, the u.s. house of representative begins

their day with general speeches. . .