playing by the rules, never giving up. those are the lessons in values my family of five generations through northern michigan history. i was one of the first in my family to graduate from college. in 2005, i went to iraq a civilian. came home in 2006, married my wife, and worked to endorse -- worked to grow manufacturing companies. we need to protect what you worked a lifetime to earn, your social security v.a. benefits. and second, we need to create a future where our families can stay and succeed. we are losing too many of our kids and grandkids. to do that, we need to invest in and protect our greatest assets, our people, our land, and our great lakes, and i look forward to having that debate tonight. thank you. bergman: good evening, i'm jack bergman. for our grandkids now

is different from the one left by our grandparents, who persevered through world war i, but great depression, and world war ii. we need to make sure that the freedoms and opportunities for future generations are equal to or better than what we received from our parents and grandparents. we all need to step up to make the tough decisions for the future generations. say when youd to sense a problem, look in the mirror. i looked in the mirror, and i am ready to go to washington and .elp solve some problems i hope that other politicians look in american and move forward -- look in the mirror and move forward. through experience of the business and military, i have experience and i am accountable. military service taught us it is service before self. i have lived a life of service and sacrifice just like all our veterans. in the marine corps, we are taught to fight for the marine

on our left and the marine on our right, because then we all fight together. we must keep our country safe and secure. we must provide an environment where the -- moderator: your time has expired. mr. bergman: thank you very much. moderator: first question of the evening. >> both candidates have claimed strong candidates -- strong ties to michigan's first congressional district. been raised by each campaign to the other. how do you respond to that accusations? i moved here inson: 2006. there were two men significant periods where i moved away, one to be with my wife and her job opportunities, and once when i was chairman of the democratic party. i would respond by saying it is not about where jack or i lived in the past, it is about where our children and grandchildren live, and how to create a better place to stay in northern michigan. migrant parents immigrated to

the upper peninsula in the 1880's. my dad was born there. in the mid-1920's, he could not find work. a smallrn and raised in town in minnesota, where he met my mom. in the 1980's, i made a decision to come to my ancestral home, found property, bought it, designed and built the house, and became a voting member and part-time resident because i was deployed in the military for the next 14 years. anybody who claims that someone in the military is not a citizen i think really needs to rethink how we qualify as far as residency. all over the world at the call of the united states government, and we need to make sure that we understand the difference between living somewhere and serving somewhere. that is the key difference between someone who is a general, someone who is in operative. thank you.

moderator: next question. some ofgan roads are the worst in the nation. make road commission must decisions on what does and does not get funded. what should be done on the federal level to address michigan's rambling infrastructure? general bergman: the federal level by and large has overstepped its bounds for so many years, whether it is federal regulation, underperformance. the area under the federal government does not understand the difference between roads in chicken and roads and assisted the. -- roads in michigan and roads in mississippi. dollars.e tax turn them back around and send them to michigan. -- i'm not saying to take federal tax dollars and send them to michigan, but the role of the federal government needs to be reduced.

regulations are masquerading as laws, and we don't need that. .hat's what bureaucracies do as an outsider, i am going there to make sure the federal government decreases its role in those types of situations. moderator: mr. johnson? mr. johnson: ask somebody who drives north between atomic and roleygan, i do respect the the department of transportation plays in bringing dollars to north michigan. as a member of congress, i will do that. we had that for 18 years in congress. it's precisely the kind of member of congress i would be. for the next question, we start with mr. johnson. create us how you would jobs in both urban and rural areas of our communities. gen. bergman: we need to -- mr. johnson: we need to invest

in ourselves. often times, you hear about us sending tax dollars to wall street. last time i checked, wall street is doing just fine. we need to bring mobile cell service to every community. we need to expand passenger rail service. and we need to think 5, 10, and 15 years ahead to make sure that our children are getting the education and funding that they need, and their local schools and colleges. general bergman, same question. gen. bergman: most of the first district is not urban or even suburban. it is rural. the bottom line, when you have 24,000 square miles, 32 counties, 700-8000 people, you have challenges when you are that spread out. we in michigan are blessed with resources. we need to create an environment

conserveresponsibly and utilize our resources so that we bring jobs and create an environment where a young 18-year-old with a good high school education and maybe a couple years of tech school can stay here, or they can leave for a while, go to the military, see what life is about. the when they come back, they know why they are coming back. we have an opportunity to use what god gave us to create the environment we want. moderator: mr. johnson, a rebuttal? mr. johnson: yes. in northern michigan, we have always led the world. he led the world in to trade in the 1700s. we lead the world in lumber. we helped build the american west. we did that because our forefathers looked at what we have. we have great land, the great lakes, smart people, and they invested in those assets, and that's kind of member of

congress i would be. gen. bergman: may i rebut that? moderator: yes. gen. bergman: what you mentioned was low hanging fruit. why it was not done, i have no idea. but it will be done during my time, because not only was it an economic -- an issue of economic security, but also of national security. not only do you rebuild the locks, you expand the locks to be ready to take the large freighters. for the next question, we will start with general bergman. >> one of the biggest challenges for local employers is keeping young talent. many young people tend to leave the area of school and never return. what should be done to change this? in the words of a native of newberry who left for 20 years, came back and was a successful business owner, he

said, i don't think we need to create an environment where everybody stays. we need to create an environment where everybody can come back to. some people at 18 will stay. jobs, a place to raise a family. of for most folks at the age 18, they need to see more of the world, so i would suggest we build the future of the first congressional district so that people, when they go away, those who choose to, can't wait to come back here, raise their families, and retire. that's more long-term thinking in the growth of young men and women who are citizens, great citizens of our country. we owe them that to show them how good we have it. moderator: mr. johnson? mr. johnson: we need to address housing. when you are paying more than 50% of your income towards housing, that is a problem. it is not only a problem for the individual, but towards our economic growth.

you see for sale signs throughout northern michigan, but it is tough to afford the housing. we also need to address our transportation system. people are having a live further away from our employment and having to pay more for gas. it is a problem for them to get to work and spend three dollars a gallon for gas. we have to address working from home. we need to bring high-speed internet and mobile cell phone service everywhere. we are moving toward an economy where people can live and work wherever they choose, but in deed of many communities, we have very little access to high-speed internet. in recent years, michigan has made deep spending cuts in order to balance the budget. what action should be taken in washington to balance the budget? a numberon: there are of things. we have a $19.5 trillion debt. if we don't get our hands around

that, it will involve us. dober two, we need to pay-as-you-go. if you introduce something to the budget, we need to take something off. next, the tax code. it is rate for the wealthy and well-connected. and third, i believe we need to break tong tax corporations shipping jobs overseas. moderator: general, same question? spending in: the washington is so upside down that we would not know a budget if we saw it, in some cases. we need a balanced budget amendment. we need to hold congress accountable to say, if you have a balanced budget amendment, give us a balanced budget. congress has to the rest of government accountable to ensure the balanced budget occurs. we need to make sure that when , you sendthis process

a signal. we have to cut the bureaucracies in washington, d.c. that are spending money that do not add value to our country. if we don't do that, we are going to be fiscally insolvent sooner than we would like to be. congress has to stand up to ensure that the bureaucracies who are responsible do what they need to do with less money and less intrusion into our lives. moderator: mr. johnson, your rebuttal? mr. johnson: i would add that the first thing we do is stop taking. also talked has about privatizing social security. if we were to privatize, we would at anywhere from $1 trillion to $2 trillion to our federal deficit. moderator: a rebuttal? gen. bergman: just a minute. we've got a nice example of how political operatives spin, twist , turn your words or part of

your citizens -- sentences to deceive the voters. the reality is, by 2032, social security will be broken. 300 used to pay in for one. now we are down to three to one. what do we have to do? we have to reformat so our grandchildren have something to spend. benefits willour stay exactly -- moderator: your time has expired. >> some are calling to scale thatthe air service subsidizes commercial air service to rural areas that might not otherwise have commercial flights. question.two-part should the service maintain its level of federal funding, and secondly, when cutting funds for the air service arm northern michigan -- would cutting funds for the air service harm northern michigan? gen. bergman: the program needs to be looked at, because we have airports in the first district,

some benefit, some suffer. when i get to washington, d.c., we are going to look into that, because right now there is a which airports we support, which we don't, but the key is to bring tourists and businesses into our airports, so that is what they come here to .o, business and tour we have work to do on that one. i would work with -- work withn: i would the department of transportation to bring back every nickel we can get. these are extremely important not only for their travel, for their family and so forth, but also we are becoming a more connected world. people are having the ability to work from home, and they do from time to time have to travel. we need to make sure that we bring back the transportation dollars that can keep our airports open and running. kristen, you will start with mr. johnson. >> do you support resending

nafta regulations that may be harmful to the domestic auto industry? free trade is important for our country. however, we are not getting fair trade. with this ttp trade agreement coming down the height, it was negotiated in secret and is not addressed some of the policies overseas,ed our jobs especially currency manipulation. i would be for reopening nafta and opposing tbp in its current form. i believe these are shifting our jobs overseas, and we have to do everything to keep our jobs here . we have 40,000 jobs, 25,000 in the manufacturing sector and 20,000 in the agricultural sector that are reliant on fair trade, and that is not what we are getting out of washington. gen. bergman: i believe resending may be one word, but if you look at regulations in someal, we need to put

sense on most of these so we can revisit them when the time is appropriate. into law,something policy, or program, if you don't have a sunset on it but people assume it is there forever. that is one of the major things wrong with our government, the federal government, and the bureaucracy. i think as president reagan said, the closest name to eternal life is a government program. we need to start putting sunset on some of those pieces of legislation and regulation. moderator: mark, your question to the general? you have a rebuttal? mr. johnson: this is an area where we disagree. my opponent has indicated that .e supports tpp in fact, he said there are some jobs that should be done overseas. i don't agree with that. i think we should be opposing trade agreement, and that

is a major area of difference between jack and i. gen. bergman: may irobot that? moderator: please. examplegman: this is number two of political operatives twisting my words so that you don't understand what it is that i said. i don't support tp, fair and simplep. it was done in the middle of the night. it needs to be redone whenever it comes up. moderator: mark? 5.5 is a divisive topic. supporters say it defies -- des our economy, opponents say it is unnecessary. willbergman: i think you hear straight talk between a marine corps general and a political operative. number one.ent is it is critical.

we are not going to do anything to harm our environment. water, clean water. we need jobs for tourism. we need to maximize god's national beauty. we need to make sure that pipeline number five, if it is safe, it is safe. if it is not safe, no problem, shut it down. understand need to that propane heat most of our houses. propanears ago, when went to five dollars a gallon, some people cannot afford it, and cannot even get it because of the fact that it was not available. we need to ensure that we are smart and take care of our citizens. mr. johnson: once again, this is a major area where jack and i disagree. he has shed -- he has said that autting down line five is business decision. protecting the great lakes is not a business decision. when it comes to line five, we

have a pipeline in the strait of mackinac that has not been inspected. we need to do three things. one, shut it down. two, have an independent inspection. thee, we need to work with government's task force to make sure that it is safe, so we can discover ways to move this oil through another pipeline if we can. i am not opposed to oil, i am not opposed to pipelines. toelines are the safest way move oil. however, a 63 euro -- 63-year-old type line in the strait of mackinac is not a good idea. this is the same type of attitude that got us into the flood disaster. -- flint disaster area of [applause] -- flint disaster. [applause] lon and i agree on the fact that government is not a business. the bottom-line is, because it is not a business, we can see what the results of it are in

the last eight years when you don't understand balance of power. need tongton dc, we have some level of business mentality and acumen that allows us as a country to make the tough decisions we need going forward. logicians don't have that background -- politicians don't have that background. jack was in michigan last year, he would note that the flint water was caused by a is this decision over the rights of people -- by a business decision being made over the lives of people. safe byeing told it is the same people who told us the flint water was safe. when it comes to our freshwater, i will be vigilant, and i do not trust the businesses for the protection of our freshwater. to askor: i would like the audience to refrain from

clapping or other noise so we don't take time away from our candidates. nick? >> in june, the city of waukesha was granted permission to draw water from lake michigan, yet the city lies outside of lake michigan's watershed. do you agree with this decision? mr. johnson: no, i don't. this decision moves our great lakes water outside of the great lakes water basin. i believe it sets a dangerous legal precedent. water. to protect that means we have to protect it against the gators, against --er fraction -- and it against endangered species, fracking. we need to show the world how to use fresh water. if we do that, we can create a better economy and protect our

freshwater. gen. bergman: the great lakes contract was created 10 years or so ago, and it was the issue of what we do with the water of the great lakes -- where does it go, or does it stay? the fact of the matter is, 8% of that water is in lake superior, and lake superior is a border state between canada and the united states. we have to be wise about how we maintain our water in the great lakes, and the reality is that across thewill, and aisle, bipartisan, multi-country decision that has to ensure that remain under our control. but we have to negotiate. moderator: a rebuttal? mr. johnson: jack, i don't know he is are aware, but member of the great lake compact, and i believe we set a dangerous precedent by allowing

our water to move outside the contract. in 20 to 30 years time, when california and nevada come looking for our water, they will have more members of congress and great lakes members of congress, and we have to start setting the legal change in place to protect our freshwater. moderator: rebuttal? gen. bergman: i did not realize i said canada was outside it. moderator: before we moved to the next question, both -- kristen, please direct it to general bergman. >> michigan is a state rich in natural resources. what role does the federal government had in protecting our l resources, keeping in mind any positive impact on businesses and people? gen. bergman: we know in the state of michigan how to live our lives, how to use our ral resources, how to keep it in such a way where we provide jobs.

we conserve our natural resources. the federal government's role should be minimalist so that we in the first district and state of michigan work together to make sure that we do the best job of controlling our resources. moderator: mr. johnson? mr. johnson: climate change is real. we have an obligation to protect on climate. our best assets are our people, our land, and our great lakes. we have an obligation to protect our great lakes and land. that means we need to continue sustainable logging practices, but we must keep an eye on our fresh water. we have the most fresh water in any district in america, which creates an obligation for the next member of congress to show the world how to use and protect freshwater. we can strike that balance. we have always struck a balance in northern michigan.

please startrk, with mr. johnson. >> where do you stand on the protection of the wolf, which is arguably eliminating much of the deer population in the northwest peninsula and impacting the economy? shouldnson: i think we allow science to dictate our wildlife policies. not politics, not emotion. science. moderator: general? lynn: any wildlife -- gen. bergman: any wildlife population needs to be managed. our deer population is way down. we walk in the woods with kids and dogs and everything else. major knows what nature does, and we need to make sure that the state manages our populations that need to be managed. moderator: nick, please direct your question to general bergman. is highert of energy for some people in northern michigan, compared to customers in lower michigan.

why is this, and what would you do to remedy the issue? our cost of energy is varied because we have the federal government dictating what kinds of energy we can use, whether it be shut down the coal plants, which increases the cost , whether it would be hydroelectric plants, which change the cost. we have the federal government in our hair that has made life .omplicated we need to make sure that affordable power across our grid is available to all our consumers, knowing some have a greater ability to pay than others. but it needs to be affordable energyked up with an all all the time type of mentality, because we utilize what we had in northern michigan. moderator: mr. johnson? mr. johnson: the upper peninsula pays the second highest rates in the country.

we are in this jam because our leaders have failed to think ahead. especially the upa. -- up. aheadd to start taking and create energy resources that provideable and can power, especially for seniors on a fixed income. governor snyder has been agreement -- has put an agreement in place to generate two new facilities in the western u.p. i am in support of that. but we also need to think about renewable energy. we can create renewable energy through the upper and lower peninsula and give us the reliability we need. moderator: kristen, please start with mr. johnson. >> several states are challenging the epa's so-called clean power plant rules.

they argue the epa overstepped its authority under the clean air act, when the agency issued rules to create commissions from coal-fired power plants. are you stand on this issue? mr. johnson: poking our energy grid up to coal is not a wise position. with marketaced rate fluctuations. we have natural gas in northern michigan. build natural gas power facilities. in addition, we need to think about renewable energy. regardless of where you are out on the government overstepping its bounds, we need to get off naturaland towards gas and renewable energy. gen. bergman: i would suggest that is much easier said than done, because there is a balance. there is a time. we do need to evaluate new technologies. we need to ensure our transmission lines and how we are looking forward to our generation in the future.

is in the middle of it, and all of a sudden, business cannot do what it needs to do, which is the r&d necessary to generate , andower, the energy utilizing our water resources as best we can. we need to keep the epa in its box, or maybe keep its box out of michigan, because they overregulated and we suffer for it. moderator: general, you have the next question from mark. >> a priority for congressman been a shack was veterans issues. how would you address the need for veterans of the local and national levels? gen. bergman: thank you. that is a passionate question, because veterans deserve every benefit they get, because they have earned it. our veterans health care system is broken, pure and simple.

it a good shot, but it is not one person who makes a huge difference. it is a group that makes sure the it a good v.a. provides aff, accessible care, because -- there are differences between what the provider provides and how long the veteran has to wait. the veterans, and i have said this in a larger form, the v.a. does not see -- need all the large hospitals it has. it needs specialized clinics for ptsd, brain injury, and prosthetics. moderator: your time has expired. mr. johnson. i was in iraq as a civilian, i saw firsthand the sacrifices made by our men and women in uniform.

i do not need to be reminded what we owe them. we need to increase our ptsd funding, number two, increase access and availability, serious reforms need to occur. third, we need to increase funds for women's veterans. where we disagree, i do not think we should be closing down v.a. facilities. this summer, he said he wanted to shut down these big v.a. hospitals, "they were a waste of money." he wants to privatize these. veteran organization is against privatization. needs to be reformed, but it does not need to be privatized. moderator: rebuttal. i know you felt secure in iraq because the marines were protecting it -- [applause] added,rgman: you also

that youbat tourism, asked to veterans what they want. they do not want v.a. hospitals a long way away, they want hospitals close to them so they can go with their families, with a veteran-oriented mission. moderator: your time expired. i risked my life, i did not live in an embassy or an army base. i was the -- i was there to create a civilian system so our troops could come back sooner. jack is trying to confuse you. he has said in the past come on record, that he wants to shut down these hospitals. he says they are a waste of money. he is in disagreement with every service organization in this company -- country. [applause] ladies and gentlemen,

please, no a plus. gentleman coming you have two rebuttals each. this question is directed to mr. johnson. >> where do you stand on rate coupling military spending because of a sequester? mr. johnson: we are in a sequester jam because our politicians cannot get along. our members of congress cannot get along. jack bergman has said he does not believe in compromise. that is precisely what has caused sequestration. we need to have members of congress go there and work on a bipartisan basis to get things done. not there representing a party. that, and aswe had far as sequestration, i do not think it should be applied to our military. we must keep our country and homeland safe. moderator: general? gen. bergman: there should not

be a cap on military spending during sequestration, but that does not mean the department of defense should not be held accountable for its spending. -- we need ammunition and weapons and gear that will keep our servicemen and women safe to they can win. as far as compromise, i do not compromise. it i will negotiate until the cows come home to make sure we come up with a solution that neither one of us going and could have envisioned, but it will lead to the greater good of our country because we negotiated in good faith across party lines, and that is what i plan to do when i get to washington, d.c., is reach across party lines to ensure that we come up with the best solutions for our country. moderator: please direct your first question to general bergman. >> where do you stand on refugee settlement, and you believe the u.s. is properly vetting refugees from syria? we have aan:

challenge in this country, not knowing who is in our country. there are entities out there that choose to infiltrate us by using our immigration process, possibly our refugee process. the bottom line is, we need to know who was in our country, and we need to have a plan. i would suggest that most of the people from other parts of the world are forced to leave their homes because of conflict. they really do not want to come to america. there is a better, safer, closer place for them to go and be ready to return to their homeland when the situation is right and safe for them. we need to make sure that we know who is in our country because of the fact that we are america, and we will fight for what we believe is right. but we need to secure our borders. moderator: mr. johnson. needohnson: i believe we to reform our immigration policies to keep us safe and keep our economy functioning. number one, we need to increase

order patrol funding and give , the agents, increased authority. number two, we need to oppose blanket amnesty by encouraging illegal act -- behavior, all we are doing is encouraging future illegal behavior. and number three, we need to address the visa overstays. hundreds of thousands of people come into our country and the department of homeland security has not kept entry and exit records. dhs was funded to do so and has not implement it. thank you. moderator: please start with mr. johnson. carecess to rural health is a question across the congressional district. many people must travel hours for their care. how can we improve health care access across the district? mr. johnson: we need to fund critical access hospitals. we have over a dozen critical access hospitals.

hospitals in rural areas that are important to the community. we need to make sure they continue to get federal funding. that is very important. we must not privatize medicare. my opponent jack bergman has said he would seek to privatize medicare. medicare works. you pay for, you aren't it, and it is very efficient. we choose not to privatize medicare. if we did, it would drive up the cost of health care for our seniors and make it more difficult for them. i believe we need to allow you, the customer, to go across state lines for health care insurance. not just be limited to what is available in michigan. moderator: general. gen. bergman: the affordable health care act has almost decimated rural health care. number one, it is not affordable. it is the first lie.

number two, politicians have made it worse by meddling. number three, the cost of .edicare has increased we have cut $716 billion from medicare to pay for the affordable health care. think of what we could do in rural health care with a that money. premiums have forced small businesses to take their employees out on the market, insurance companies are getting out of the exchanges. small businesses in the middle class cannot afford the unaffordable health care act. we need to repeal it and replace it with something that works, with a focus on rural health care so hospitals can provide the level of care in the rural area that the physicians and patients can both say, that is the best step going forward. moderator: rebuttal. a majorson: once again,

area where we disagree. jack bergman wants to move medicare into a voucher program. medicare is extremely efficient. it is a 1% overhead cost, versus a 6% in the private insurance arena. it works. we need to strengthen medicare and give it the ability to negotiate with drug companies. that would drive down prescription drug costs i about 20% to 30%. not again, hand over what you have earned over a lifetime to private companies so they can make a profit of what -- from what you have worked for. moderator: rebuttal. herebergman: my opponent has said in an interview, he is proud of obamacare and what it has accomplished. very recently, former president clinton said it is the craziest thing i have ever seen. it does not work. so it bill clinton said that, we know it has to be true. [laughter] next please start

with general bergman. >> gun violence is making a lot of headlines. northern michigan has a rich hunting and firearms tradition. how do you oppose addressing the issue of gun violence? number one, as a member of the united states military, i swore an oath to defend the constitution. i do that in an armed status. i understand what violence is when it comes to utilizing weapons. the bottom line is, we need to make sure that our second amendment maintains its strength. it is not up for negotiation. likee some of the folks nancy pelosi or hillary clinton, they would say we need to amend all this or that. but guess what, we need to support the fact that we have the right to keep and bear arms and do it responsibly. that is what our country is about. moderator: mr. johnson. you carry a whether

weapon and war or for sport or protection, you have a responsibility. we have that responsibility here in michigan. that is why i will work to protect the second amendment. in fact, i received an a rating, i was endorsed by the detroit news because they were comfortable i would protect our second amendment right inside congress. said, we have to go after some of the epidemics of gun violence. we need to increase our mental health funding and increase prosecution of those who break the law with guns. we have seen a 40% decrease in prosecutions of gun violence. rebuttal. saysbergman: my opponent one thing to the nra but said another thing in an interview in detroit a couple years ago about agreeing with president obama's

plans for gun control. i would suggest we have a contrast going here in terms of message. mr. johnson, you have one remaining. >> university of michigan football players recently made kneeling during the national anthem. where do you stand on this issue? mr. johnson: there are plenty of ways to protest the country without disrespecting the flag. moderator: general? gen. bergman: it is leadership, and it is respect. where there country is a responsibility of citizenship, and it needs to be shared with all. some might not understand what it means. it is up to us as a society to educate the folks that live within our borders, what it means and how positive it is to be an american citizen for --

citizen. for someone, and i will assume they did not know better, whether it is their teachers, coaches, parents, mentors, needs to make sure they understand that is one of the most disrespectful things that you can do in this country. shame on them. moderator: please start with general bergman. x michigan has a growing opioid problem. smalla problem for communities. they do not have the resources to combat the issue. what are your proposals? number one, good family environment, good decision-making, leads to young men and women who know the difference between a good decision and a bad decision. the family basis, the faith basis, the community basis that helps these youngsters understand that this is not the right way to go. we need to provide services to the extent where they can

understand that they need to live a cleaner life because they will not live a long life if they continue that way. i believe this is an area that should be handled at state and local levels. the federal government does not necessarily understand the differences between usage in one area as opposed to another area of the country. but i think were nation between state and local agencies goes a long way toward helping these youngsters get straight in my. it is a challenge and it is a problem. to any sheriff and prosecutor, it is not just youngsters. these are people from all walks of life. opioid addiction is a major problem. we have to address that and give it everything we have three the federal, state, and local need to work together to do that. in part, we have a drug problem because people work their entire hard jobs like construction and military,

physical jobs, and they blow out a knee or shoulder. and the drug companies push opiates on them. all of a sudden, they are addicted. we need to start working with our drug companies to get them to give us proper recovery problems. we have a massive opiate problem. talk to any judge, it will take all hands on deck, including specialists in the federal government, to act on this. moderator: please start with mr. johnson. college student graduates with nearly $30,000 in student loan debt. how do we change this? first off, we have to start funding universities. state and federal funds toward our universities have been continuously reduced, which is pushing the cost further on the students. number two, we have to allow our students to refinance their debt. do it with an enormous

amount of debt, and therefore, not able to participate fully in the economy. and cannot buy a house, get married. that is a real problem in terms of our local economy. protect theve to same way we did with our g.i. bill. you will hear from my opponent of the federal government has no role in education. but he was also paid to work for a pro--- for-profit organization that went belly up. the federalof the federal govero role in education. government lays a role in making sure college is affordable, and that we increase our funding for students in college. moderator: general? gen. bergman: folks, we do have a problem with college debt. i would suggest the student loan problem as it exists today is a mortgage problem waiting to blow up. college tuition has risen at the rate it does because the government is a source of easy money. why not?

money,ent prints the schools raise tuition, students end up in debt. what happens, it collapses under its own weight. the reality of it is that we need an education system in this affordable, that gets the government out of printing free money to inflate the prices because the student ends up shouldering the majority. when they cannot shoulder it, you shoulder the loan because they default. mr. johnson: speaking of default, jack bergman here worked when he lived in company that is now penniless. a for-profit university system. have an obligation to invest in people, not to spend our dollars to corporate wall street and to see it wasted there. 174 million dollars

going to college students in the first congressional district. this notion that the federal government cannot invest in college kids is wrong. it is good enough for the g.i. bill and we need to do it again. thank you. moderator: candidates you have used all your rebuttals. please start with general bergman. >> michigan is number two in the nation in terms of human trafficking. what should be done to combat human trafficking? i know i do not have rebuttals left, but the bottom line is, he had information wrong on the first butwith my role in edmc, that is ok, that is what political operatives do, they twist, turn, and deceit to read the point is, human trafficking is related and code joined with how we handle immigration policies and law enforcement policies. how we handle all those issues that allow us to understand who

is in our country and for what reason. if you do not have law enforcement or immigration agencies talking across the board to understand where people are coming from, how they are overstaying their visas, how they are here, then you do not have a program to ensure that human trafficking is minimized. here as long as we allow it to be here. we have to step on it. moderator: mr. johnson. mr. johnson: we need to work with the department of justice, homeland security, immigration services to go after this in a coordinated fashion. we have individuals bringing young women into this country under false pretenses. and essentially, enslaving them. it is a massive problem across the country and i believe it takes a federal response as well as state and local police forces . they need to recognize it when they see it.

police forces do not understand that the young woman or male arrested was part of a link to read we need to give them the training and funds to address this. please address your question to mr. johnson. >> you both indirectly mentioned number of, a rising retirees will be relying on social security and many are uncertain about its future. what should be done about social security for this and future generations? social security is a promise that was made to you. you deserve for that promise to be kept. thatl security has been through wars, recessions, stock market crashes. we have to make sure that promises kept. the answer is not moving social security off to wall street. the answer is not privatizing. my opponent said straight to camera when asked reform are

privatized, gave his answer of privatized. i do not believe that. that is wrong. we do need to make sure that it is kept solvent and every person pays into social security who receives it. offe can left of the cap 118,000, when you pay into it you are no longer taxed at $118,000 500. general?: gen. bergman: seniors out there and audience and television land , your benefits will not be changed. paid in your entire working career, you deserve it, you earned it, you will get it. but when you think about the long-term of how we are trying to shape this world for our kids and grandkids, how do we ensure that social security is there for them?

we do not have the opportunity to continue that program as it exists today. because under the current rules, inwill be dead, unfunded, 2032. we need to make sure that whatever it is in the future, it , ads to look like contribution plan where you as the individual control the risk of your investments so you get the return on your money that you want. moderator: please direct your question to general bergman. >> congress has a low public approval rating, why is this? you are sending the wrong type of person to be your congressman. autumn wind, if all you have ever done in life is be a political insider, and worked through the system, does not matter which party, the bottom line, that is all you know.

a highuld you have approval rating, you are not doing anything? of congress who actually have experience in various forms of leadership roles, so they can learn to work together like a good business leaders do. they are held accountable and responsible for their actions, and when you cast your vote, you need to make sure that the person you are electing is not doing it just to get another promotion on their political career ladder. but for someone who really wants to go there to do the job for you, the constituent. that is what will make the ratings go up. moderator: mr. johnson. mr. johnson: we need to bring compromise and disability back. that takes a leading by example. for 18 years. he rolled up his sleeves, and went to washington and worked on a bipartisan basis to get things done. you cannot work with other members of congress without questioning their motives. we have got to work with both

sides to get things done in the country. i have the experience of doing that. i thought in my own party on tpp . i did -- disagree with most of my party on the second amendment. i worked with both sunni and shiites. -- haveud to have the multiple endorsements. it is about setting aside by partisan differences in getting the job done for the american people. moderator: that concludes the question portion. gentlemen, you have 60 seconds each for concluding remarks. it general, your first. gen. bergman: thank you for being here tonight. i am a proud united states marine and i love our country deeply. that is why i decided to step up. november 8 you have a choice. the good news is, the choice is clear. priornt leaders without experience, or do you want more

lyrical operatives to represent you? a straight talking marine corps general, or a political operative? someone with experience and accountability, a general officer commanding thousands of troops, and outline commander who took responsibility for lives on a daily basis am a and still a small business owner. my opponent was chairman of the democratic party, that is his resume. we need to repeal obamacare, we need to secure our borders, protect the middle class. i humbly ask for your vote. voting honors the sacrifice of the men and women who served. thank you, god bless you, and god bless america. moderator: mr. johnson. mr. johnson: thank you mark, and thank you to the audience. we heard a very clear difference between jack and me. jack, on all fronts, wants to take what you have earned, a lifetime working for, your medicare, baty,

benefits, and allow a corporation to come in and profit from it. that is wrong. -- jack want to take our tax money and ship it off to wall street. i do not agree with that. we need to invest in us, our people, our land, our great lakes so our families can stay here and succeed. we need to bring high-speed internet across the district, return passenger rail services. whoeed a member of congress will look 5, 10, 15 years ahead. that is the type of congress member i will be for you. i appreciate consideration for your vote on november 8. moderator: we would like to thank the candidates for your purse -- participation. we would like to thank northwestern michigan congress for hosting this evening. and i would like to thank my for the wonderful

work they have done this evening. thank you it home for joining us. make sure you watch our late news for reaction to the debate and all the days breaking news. continue the conversation for tl work they have done this evening. and tell us to you think won the debate, login and vote on facebook. military, law-enforcement, firefighters, emts and other personal, we thank for services to our communities and our nation. good night. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> tomorrow, an in-depth look at the 2016 presidential election. first, a conversation with managing editors a bloomberg politics, mark halperin and john hilum and come of that is live at 8:20 eastern on c-span two. and economic advisers from the

clinton and trump campaigns live at 2:00 eastern here on c-span. our campaign 2016 coverage continues on c-span with live debates from u.s. house, senate, and government races. republican senator mike lee and debate forsty snow the u.s. senate. and the eighth congressional debate between republican ryan fitzjohn -- fitzpatrick and steve -- night at 8:00 eastern, the wisconsin u.s. senate debate between ron johnson and russ feingold. and, debating for the nevada u.s. senate. watch our complete 2016 campaign coverage online and on the

radio. debate between the candidates of vermont governor. phil scott faces former and bill to minter, lee, former boston red sox richer. this is a 90 minute debate. >> live from the studios of vermont pbs in colchester, the vermont votes 2016 debate. the candidates for governor debate the top issues in this important election season. here is the moderator. moderator: good evening, everyone, and welcome to tonight's debate for governor. i will be moderating tonight debate for the three candidates on the vermont ballot who are vying to become vermont's newest governor. let me introduce them to you now.

first, bill lee, an independent party candidate. democrats sue minter is from waterbury. republican phil scott is from vermont. i would also like to introduce the bureau chief of the vermont press bureau. the format tonight is relatively straightforward. questions will come from myself, in aneil, and later on portion of the program, from the studio audience. questions will be introduced to all candidates, each having one minutes answer. there may be a follow-up and rebuttal time devoted to each topic. at the end, there will be closing remarks with a one minute piece. the timekeeper will keep everyone on time. welcome, candidates to you all. first question -- if you are elected on november 8, you are going to have less than two months before you are sworn in. two months to assemble a team, set your agenda, and you will

have a new legislature and new legislative leadership as well. how are you going to hit the ground running? what is your top priority and how are you going to get to it, mr. lee? he drove me in for the winning run of the vermont state championship. i have a lot of friends in this say that i take advice from, and i believe they will all help me out. i did not come here seeking this job. it was pressed upon me by the liberty union party. they came to me and said you have to run. this is an open seat. we need change in the state and you are the change. i'm the guy that will lead you out of the woods because i am a gun hunting, right-wing, but i'm -- i also have a liberal heart. i do the memory cafe in montpelier. all i do in the state is answer the phone and help people out. i believe i am the best candidate for that because i am

neither a democrat nor a republican, and i am not your problem, i am your solution. moderator: next up? ms. minter: i am going to begin by pulling together a strong team of leaders because that is what i do well, bring together teams, set up our challenges, face our challenges, establish goals, and achieve those goals. what i know is i am going to bring a team together to focus on the budget and on our mission, which is to create jobs and economic opportunity for vermonters to support middle-class families and their kids and give them the opportunity to live, work, and stay right here in vermont. this is a critical time in our state. too many vermonters are struggling, just to make ends meet, because wages are not keeping up with the cost of living. women in this economy work -- 43% of women who work full-time still cannot meet their basic needs.

we need to change this story. i am going to be a governor with a great team, leading us forward for a better future. moderator: mr. scott, how are you going to hit the ground running? gov. scott: by doing just that. the first day is not a day for vacation. it is a day for getting to work. i've been working my whole adult life. i have spent 35 years in business. during that time, i bring people together. i look for talent. i look for team chemistry. that is something i have done with my race team, bringing people together, consensusbuilding, facilitating a team that will work together in order to rise to the challenge, the challenge we face, of course, our economy. this crisis of affordability we face in vermont is real. it is going to take a lot of us pulling in the same direction in in order to accomplish what we need to accomplish. that is really focusing on the budget, trying to develop that, in a short period of time, and i

will be bringing together a lot of talented individuals. they have already shown interest in trying to bring vermont forward. moderator: let's slow down a little. the two of you have mentioned the budget already. by all accounts, the budget you will have to be facing is a $40 million deficit for an fy 18 budget. so let's get some specifics. if we have to raise taxes or fees, to cover this deficit, what are they going to be? if we have to cut something, what is it going to be? question for the three of you, a $40 million budget deficit, mr. scott. gov. scott: i have already said we do not have to guess at this. i will not propose or sign a budget that grows faster than the economy did in the previous year. or wages grew in the previous year. this is been something that has been a problem over the last seven years. the legislature has adopted a method of being overoptimistic in their growth expectations, and during that time, they have

raised taxes and fees and raised the spending limits to about $700 million over the last seven years. i propose that we look back to last year. we do not have to guess at this. we look back at last year, see what wages grew, and what the economy grew, and if it grew 1%, then we cap the growth of the budget to 1%. it is as simple as that. we'll find efficiencies. we will modernize state government. we will find the will to get through this without raising taxes and fees. moderator: no specifics at the time? mr. scott: i have all kinds of specifics. you can go to philscott.org and see all those with my economic plan and my budget and monetization. moderator: $40 million budget deficit. ms. minter: i have managed a $600 million budget, balanced that budget every year, as i ran the transportation agency first as deputy, then as secretary, and i know what it takes. we had every year changes in

whether the federal dollars were going to come or not, and i know it takes scenario planning, i know it takes choices between what we spend and what we don't, and how we prioritize, but i want to say one thing that is important because phil has not mentioned what he is planning to cut. we know last year, when the budget was presented and the republicans in the house presented how they were going to balance the budget, they proposed cuts to childcare subsidies. cuts to affordable housing. cuts to college tuition payments. cuts to our state colleges. they even cut the commission on women. those are not the way that i think are going to support middle-class families and grow our economy. moderator: mr. lee. mr. lee: i think our biggest problem is the fact that the whole paradigm is wrong. we have got to many big farms, bst, all of these pollutants being sprayed on our field, more

cancer, more disease in this state, and i believe we have got to go small. i believe we have got to get out there and be more multidimensional. take our large farms, make them small. we are the bread basket of new england. with global warming, we are able to raise grapes on every southern exposure. you put your solar panels with your grapes and everything else, and you look at the northeast kingdom, we are doing well up there. why are we doing that? we got out of the box. we are starting to get breweries up there. we have the best cheese. we have pizza greens. -- pete's greens. they conserve 1000 families. if you get 100 farms like that every year in six years, you can feed everybody in vermont for a reasonable price and you're going to be able to feed them the right way. you are not going to have additives in your food. how you get it, you get taxes. you tax the bad stuff and you make people eat better so they are not in the hospital, not in the doctor's office and they are strong. moderator: let us stay with the

budget. >> you mentioned the republican proposals a year or two ago. you were going to be entering office if you win with at least a $40 million budget gap. if you do not cut anything, excuse me, you will have to raise revenue. if you're not planning to cut, what revenue will you raise and how will you raise it? ms. minter: we know that our revenues are not keeping up with the projections, but we are, we have a long way to go between now and january. we have to see how the next quarter revenues come in. i have seen extraordinary fluctuations, having watched how the transportation fund has gone up and down. i'm not going to put anything on the table until i know exactly what we are coming up with. as you know it changes with , every quarter. i think it is important to be saying, "what is going to happen at that time?" what i do know is, what i will not raise, is new sales or service taxes that are going to hurt the middle class.

you know, i looked at phil's economic development plan, and what i saw were tax breaks primarily for corporations and the wealthy. i do not see any way he has to pay for them. moderator: we will get back to taxes shortly. governor scott, you proposed a plan to save one penny for every dollar spent in state government. as you know, there are contractual obligations that the state has for salaries, for health care, things that you will not be able to save a penny on, of which focuses the burden on other areas. knowing you cannot cut a penny from every dollar, which dollars will you be looking at and which programs will you be looking at? gov. scott: that is a goal. we look at it in our own daily lives. we can save a penny for every dollar spent. i'm sure we can find savings in state government as well. we are just not looking hard enough. we cannot tax our way out of the situation we are in. that is what has been happening for the last seven years.

sue has proposed a tax on services. sue has proposed a carbon tax. sue has proposed a way of this cap and trade scheme. that is not the way to get ourselves out of the situation we find ourselves in. we are in a hole right now and we should stop digging. we should tighten our belts, and find some savings and efficiencies within government, and we are going to work our way out of this, but we cannot tax our way out of this. that is not the way to grow our economy. moderator: secretary minter, you did embrace the idea of at least looking at the sales tax and extending it to services. it was based on the blue-ribbon tax commission report that came out a number of years ago. since you mentioned that you were interested in looking at that report, you have put out more specifics, saying you would not tax any service that is used by the middle class or largely by the middle class. you have mentioned things like limousine rides, airplanes, things like that.

there are not a lot of airplanes registered in vermont. what kind of savings could you see from expanding the tax base to some services? what is the realistic goal here? ms. minter: what i've explained is that we do need to think about our future and what are the taxes that hurt middle-class vermonters and how can we actually build our economies to support the programs we need? i have made it very clear and i will say it again, i will not add new sales or service taxes that hurt middle-class vermonters. what i will do is look for those loopholes that are benefiting wealthy people, such as exemptions for lobbyists. exemptions for limousine rides. the interest payment for second homes. are those things that are going to help middle-class vermonters? what i also want to point out is that phil and his friends in the republican party have been claiming falsely that i have proposed a carbon tax.

it is sounding more like national republican talking points. i want to make it clear that i have a strategy to look at climate change, to address our carbon emissions, to build on a very successful program called the regional greenhouse gas initiative. moderator: we are going to move right to transportation. mr. lee, on the budget and taxes, if you would like to have a closing comment. mr. lee: raise the minimum for people working. if you go by mcdonald's, they say they're going to jump them to $10. they are not going to survive on $10. tax the trash that mcdonald's throws on the side of the road, and bud light, if you want five cents or one cent, raise the tax on the cans to $.10 because every trail that i go skiing on, when that snow melts, there's nothing but bud light cans all around america. drink locally and think globally. and if you raise the minimum wage up high, people will make

more money and there will be taxes all around. pay people what they are worth. that is a problem on this planet. we have not done that and we have got to start doing that. you do not expect trickle down from reagan. reagan did not work. none of that work. trickle down does not work. that is a prostate disease or something like that because i am telling you, you have got to tax the 2%. bernie was right. bernie has always been right. i knew him when they were throwing cans at him down on the street. moderator: let us talk about transportation. i do not think anyone would argue that vermont's bridges, roads infrastructure , never seems to get the maintenance and the maintenance dollars needed for repair and upkeep. furthermore, pollution climate , change concerns, relatively carbon emissions is always an issue. with the gasoline tax, and uncertain and unpredictable sources of income, how do we pay for our transportation needs going forward? mr. lee? mr. lee: use the militia. use all these guys that have got

the tanks and everything and you take them out. do not send them to iraq or iran like rumsfeld said with weapons of mass destruction. rumsfeld had the receipts for them. we gave them to him in you do 1983. not send vermonters out of this state to fight wars. i had to bury two of them up there, and every time damn religious rights groups came up there with the american flag, fighting for our lives. you take the people in the state. you join the militia, keep your guns, and you go out there and fix the roads. everybody fixes the roads because they are falling apart. go back to the old way we fix roads, with granite. you can go back, make the roads they used to be. let us make vermont the way it used to look a long time ago. moderator: senator, transportation. ms. minter: i have been working on balancing our transportation budget for the last six years, a $600 million budget. i will tell you we have been

, having to work on improving maintenance. when i was in the legislature in 2009, we had to find out that bridges were closing in emergency all around the state. we actually did a study and analyzed that we had 20% of our bridges were structurally deficient. we worked bipartisan to come up with a plan. we passed the transportation and infrastructure bond fund. i had the opportunity to manage the agency and focus on innovation and efficiency. we created a new accelerated bridge program. we were building bridges faster, cheaper, and smarter. we have gone from having 20% of our bridges structurally deficient to now just 7%. i know how to manage, innovate, make efficiencies and make government work because we have to make sure that we do not let our bridges fall down ever again. moderator: mr. scott, the topic is paying for transportation. gov. scott: this is part of what drove me into politics to begin with. there was the raid of the transportation fund of about 20

years ago to the tune of about 50 something million dollars every single year that was used for other purposes. that is when i decided to step up to run because i thought that we should do better. our roads and infrastructure was failing. during that time, i'm pleased to say during my years in the senate, we were able to reduce that from $50 million down to a more manageable $15-20 million. i think that was a step in the right direction. if you think about it, that was done, that rate of transportation fund was done over a 10 to 20 year period. if we had invested in the infrastructure at that time, we would not have that problem today. but i do not believe we should be taxing our way out of this. we do not need to raise the taxes on already burdened vermonters. at this time, we cannot afford to and they cannot afford to. we are going to have to look for a federal initiative to solve this issue.

moderator: the future is different, is looking very different with less gasoline used, electric cars, etc. is it time for a mileage tax? is it time for some alternative tax to help transportation needs? gov. scott: on the national level, they need to start talking about something different. i agree. but not here in vermont. we cannot be doing something different from the rest of the country. i am very focused and have been for six years on this very matter. it is critically important, not just to fix our roads and bridges, but to help vermonters get out of their cars by focusing on public transit, ridesharing, eating people to walk, by having sidewalks and bike lanes. that is what i have been working on, increasing the use of public transit. we will need to change peoples driving behavior and get more people into electric cars. this'll make an enormous change in how we reduce carbon emissions.

transportation is 46% of our carbon footprint here in vermont. that is why i propose the plan to build on the successful regional greenhouse gas initiative started under governor douglas to build transportation initiatives. so that we can work together as a region to reduce carbon emissions and reduce the amount we have to rely on our cars and really move forward to address climate change. mr. merone: mr. lee? mr. lee: in venezuela we have a system where everyone who needs a ride puts their finger down and for money you jump in the car and you go as far as he goes on that same road. when you have to get out and change cars, you put your finger down for the minimal amount and you get a ride. people helping other people. i pick up hitchhikers all the time. some of them jump over the snow bank because they see my long hair and beard, but then they know it is bill lee, they will

not hurt us. we have to get more friendly. we have got to get out of this gas glut we are in. it's down now. it's as low as we are going to be. it is cheaper than water. gas is amazingly cheap, but it ain't going to last forever. we are the 49th dog in his nation. we are that big. only wyoming is smaller than us. go out and get a bigger dog. mr. merone: if gas is as cheap as it's been, do we have the capacity to adjust the tax on it, a penny or two or five? mr. lee: yeah, it's not going to be low forever. they are just waiting for their moment. after thethey did hurricane, they jumped it up don't go to florida. $.40. if you retire, don't go there. i know a farmer who went there in three months later was dead. stay here, go to the farm, go

for a break or something like that, but we have got to get off the gas glut. i was a hitchhiker, you know? people picked me up. i'm not jack reacher, but i wish i was. >> a follow-up on transportation? mr. scott: vermont has been discussing the return of the passenger rail. if elected governor would you commit your administration to pursuing rail and completing the western corridor project? mr. scott: we have been working on this for a number of years and we have been working on this with the federal delegation. congressman welch was on senate transportation with me when we started talking about the, trying to bring montrealer back. some of the border concerns are what prevents us from going further.

we are going to solve that problem as well. i think it is imperative that we continue to fix the western corridor so we cannot passenger rails from new york city right to burlington and then hopefully beyond into montreal. that will help in all kinds of different ways from tourism to , trade and freight as well. that would be something i would focus on and it is something we have been focusing on for a number of years. ms. minter: absolutely, for the last six years we have been working hard and our team has aggressively pursued grants. we have increased to grants, we are now 12 miles away from getting rutland, from rutland to the queens city. this is going to make a huge difference and it is going to build from there. on the eastern side i'm so excited about the progress we have made.

we have been negotiated for the last three years with the province of quebec. believe it or not, we have to negotiate with the province, the state of new york, the state of massachusetts and connecticut, because we are all in an agreement with amtrak. we have made huge progress and i am so ready to be the governor to actually get it done. i have been in these negotiations. we have made huge progress on getting facilities in downtown montreal so that people can go straight from the border across. very difficult, very important, and i am ready to do it. mr. merone: mr. lee, train transportation. mr. lee: i cross the border all the time. i have a radio show in montreal. there, iy, i played up have great rapport with the mayor. we have to do it on the federal level, we've got to have a pact that we can go up there anytime we want and come back anytime we want. that hassle that you have to come back, it's just embarrassing.

i feel so bad about it. with the red sox going up there, they have to pass through there. the yankees have to pass through the western side of the state. all of this money has the potential to come through our state and head over to montreal. i've always been a train guy. i ride trains all the time. i rode them down to spring training. there is nothing more romantic than taking the train across canada and seeing the end of your train come by twice on a curve. it's like -- go there, take a train, get rid of your car, shoot your car, shoot your television. thank you. mr. merone: you have yet to clarify your position on the carbon tax. ms. minter: i do not support a carbon tax for vermont. i am looking forward to building on the work i have been working on for the last three years in the transportation agency,

working with other states throughout the northeast region. i was the president of the national association of state transportation officials. we had initiatives to actually work as a region. and it takes strong leadership to actually build successful policy, regionwide. that's why i want to continue the work i have been doing on expanding the regional greenhouse gas initiative. the program that was started under governor douglas reduced carbon emissions throughout the new -- northeast by 24% and brought $10 million to vermont to invest in energy efficiency and renewable efficiencies. this is what we can do when we build the transportation sector into the greenhouse gas initiative. i'm excited to be the leader that it takes to work collaboratively across the region. mr. merone: mr. scott? carbon tax, are we going to go there? gov. scott: it sounds like she supports carbon tax.

whether it is regionally or for the state, it sure sounds that way. i am not in favor. if the carbon tax came to my desk as governor, i would veto it. ms. minter: i'm so sorry you don't understand policies that relate to reducing emissions. the greenhouse gas initiative is actually a cap and trade program where in a state like vermont that reduce emissions receives benefits in terms of investments. just like we received on the electric side, we have received over $10 million in investments. we will be able to receive investments, not taxes, for alternatives to the single occupant vehicle. helping us get the rail back, our transit. this is what we can do when we work together to reduce emissions in vermont. the states that go above will actually have to invest in what we need. transferring our energy economy to a non-carbon-based economy. mr. merone: final word.

gov. scott: in california it costs them $.11 per gallon. sounds like another tax increase. so we have the carbon tax and the cap and trade it sounds , expensive to me. we are already overburdened by taxes as it is. we don't need anymore. ms. minter: phil is being supported in this election, $1.2 million funded by the national republican governors association and the oil billionaire koch brothers. do you know why they have been opposing cap and trade in california for the last decade? do you know why this is such an issue? let's talk about what's happening. we cannot let out-of-state oil tycoons buy this election. i am surprised to find phil g the national republican line to talk about climate change as if it is not a problem.

we have to come together around this problem. climate change is real, it's happening right here in vermont. it is affecting jobs. think about last winter. what happened when the snow machines didn't come to the general stores? what happened to the snowplow drivers that couldn't actually get work? what happens when we lose our winters? this is serious. this is why we have to come together. we need leaders who will address this critical issue of our time. mr. merone: mr. lee? mr. lee: those of us who lived in the kingdom kind of liked it. i had to shovel my driveway four times and i go -- wow, that's unbelievable. what have they done for us? they have wrecked the ridge line, sent the credit down to connecticut because of the koch brothers, you are right about that, but you have got to get out of it with the gas dependency and the fracking and stuff. you are ruining your water. you have to realize these are , all symptoms of problems. the problem is the fact that we are ruining our environment.

we are just killing it. you never see a dear eating by a river anymore running through , the pasture. they go through there because they are on fire. because they are on fire. they only eat up in the high pastors these days because that's the only food that hasn't been sprayed or anything else. we have ruined our rivers, our dairies, shot our cows in the ass from monsanto and you are drinking that stuff and it's killing you. you wonder why we don't live too long? that's the problem. mr. merone: thank you very much. it's 8:00, this is the vermont pbs gubernatorial debate. candidates phil scott, sue minter, and mr. lee are here. we have another hour to go in this debate. next week i would like to invite you to come back at the same time for the lieutenant governor's debate right here on vermont pbs. as mentioned in your opening, folks, college, i heard it once or twice. vermont has a high rate of

student high school graduation but a low number of students who actually go on to college. one of the lowest in the country. a poll shows that 84% of respondents don't think that education beyond high school is affordable. a lot is being said this year on the national level about free tuition this year. is this something that can be addressed on the state level? is this something we can actually do or is it campaign , talk? gov. scott: we certainly want to have affordable education for our youth, and that could come in all kinds of different ways. i think it is something we should really take a look at. i'm a product of the vocational program at spaulding high school. i did my afternoons in vocational training and my mornings in college prep before going on to uvm, and that i wanted to be a tech ed teacher. i don't believe that we focus enough on the trades and that in

our school systems we should reinstitute industrial arts, space,ch ed, more maker to tap into the creative minds of youth. i think the trades are going to be the future. the service technicians of the two years would be enough. we should also make it affordable. by cutting down the cost of borrowing more than anything else. went to school in rhode island. she came out with dad to and the sallie maes -- shelle of the world came in. ade affordability as center bees of my campaign. requireds of the jobs

education and training be on high school and here in vermont while we do a great job of getting hits your high school we do a very weak job of getting them beyond. four out of 10 from a high school graduates are not continuing. that is why oppose a vermont promise, two years of tuition free community or technical college. to give the next generation the opportunity for qualifying for livable wage jobs and economic security. it is critical because when i am traveling and talking to the businesses of the state, they cannot find qualified workers. it is their biggest challenge. we need to invest in students to make the workforce to grow our economy. this is my vermont promise. i am committed to this and we can. offer free college tuition? >> it is a race to the top. bywas no child left behind

the bush administration which was terrible. it was terrible and then all of a sudden, it was race to the top by the democrats. which is not right. you have to be diversified in your education. if you do not have jobs my what it is your education? all of our brain drain, all our kids are leaving the state. you have to have jobs at the end of it. you have to be more multidimensional. you have to be a generalist, not a specialist. that is what is wrong with our educational system. they are trying to make you specialize when you have to be a generalist. i am a bonded locksmith. pitching today. i'm still pretty healthy and i do a lot of different things. my -- i dig my potatoes by has -- hand. weight whackers and things that blow leaves around. you need a healthier body and we are worried about -- we will worry about education. a price tag that we

just heard? we will be raising over $750 with million of deposits. we can't afford not to do this. right now with four out of 10 kids not going beyond, we see growth of generational poverty. kids used to be -- it used to be enough to have a high school diploma but it is not anymore. that is why we have to think about the future. we have 40% of kids coming to kindergarten unready to learn in vermont and four out of 10 not going beyond. what does that mean for the future of our vermont am a what does it mean for the future of our economy question mark we must invest in the students and when you get an associates degree, you earn on average 12,000 more per year. earna bachelors degree you 32,000 more per year. that is what vermonters need, they need an education, they

need qualifications, and they need great paying jobs so they can live, work, and stay right here in vermont. planes any part of that interest you? summit he has to pay. she is going to raise taxes on someone, there is going to be a fee increase for the big banks and they do not have a magical bank account that that is going to come out of. they're going to charge us, we are going to pay for it in some way. whether it is in checking account fees or fees in your bank. somebody has to pay. nothing is free. having said that, we need to make college more affordable and attainable before -- for those who want to do it. having something free does not necessarily make it sell. give thei was able to a couple of address years ago and i was so inspired by what i saw as they walked

across the stage to receive their diplomas. grownf them having kids up at their side. you can see the sense of appreciation they had for the working -- that they earned and worked for. ms. minter: they have a commitment to reinvest and they also have had a flat line in terms of how much they have invested into the general fund. over the last decade they have paid 10.3 million in 2007 and looking at $10.5 million in the next year. has anyone else's property taxes been flat? i don't so. the banks can pay their fair share so that our students get a fair shake so we have a future with kids who have a job and economic security so the can be participants in our economy and

use the resources of the banks. it surprises me when i hear no plans for college about -- affordability. we have to take this on. we have to commit to the future generations because what else do we have for future if we are not supporting our kids? these are people that are not going to go on and it is not free. they will have to give community service and it will have volunteer mentors to help be there champions. >> they are the guys who keep it. they lend it out to us like it like that.something people can get money, they can get it because the banks. you look at the big short. it won the academy award. bernie sanders would be president.

but what happened? they went after the catholics. they're always going after the catholics. that is the difference. >> would any of you pursue ways to reduce student debt and vermont in exchange for students agreeing to stay and work in vermont? mr. lee: sorry, i was not paying attention. you should donate two years in your life to helping the state. said,eve in what kennedy it was his brother-in-law that started the service where we profess the u.s. was the best. now what do we do question wreck we do is throw drones at them and everything else. it is an embarrassment. i am so upset with the way this

country is headed in the last 20 after the freedom of information act and all that went down on us. i am upset. i will give you forgiveness, i will let everyone out of jail and let them work on the roads and fix the bridges. we put them in their because we created a society that made them criminals. ms. minter: if we are doing debt forgiveness we need a revenue source for that. i would prefer to not let our kids go into debt and let only those kids who can actually managed to get into the process. let's talk about it, kids decide after six grade after -- whether or not they will aspire beyond high school. we need to give them hope. we need them to have the volunteer mentors that my vermont promise program will have so they can go into college . it will cost the same but it will help those who have the capacity to get in them a two

fill out this form's and believe they can do it. kids is a generation of who are not going beyond high school. if we want to break the generational cycle authority poverty, if we want to grow economic opportunity and security for the next generation, we've got to give them a chance. that is my vermont promise. you're going to pay for it either way. giveld rather give them -- it to them upfront and give them a hope and a chance. have a population that is stagnant. we're losing from 25 to 45. we lost 30,000 people since the last census. buye of the folks that homes and utilize the services, and pay taxes. that is what we need to rebuild and we have fertile ground. we have 10,000 college students every single year here in the state that graduate. so they are the ones we should be asking, what is it going to

take to keep you here and what they will tell you is they want opportunity and affordable housing and they want to be able to live here and afford to live here. when you hear these schemes of raising more taxes and fees and sending more money, we are not focusing on the economy area and we are not focusing on the opportunity to have them be able to stay here and live here. the affordability crisis is the real problem. -- did the recent state merger go far enough? >> we will see. mergeas a good move to the two. i think we are going to have to look at other opportunities. if we can make for a better vermontthe two. i think we are going to have toe opportunity, we will have more economic opportunity for our higher it into -- higher ed institutions.

ms. minter: my plants help to keep young people here and putting more students into our state college system. ,e can just big for monitors to the students to stay. we need to create great communities. that is what my investor money is all about. great communities, livable wage jobs, affordable housing, just like we did in dairy where we put $19 million of public investment and we had leverage of private investment. that is what we can do around the state. that is what will bring young people to stay here. young entrepreneurs. i have the plans to do this. we are talking about cutting taxes. i do not see how that is anything but a republican talking point that will not solve our problems. this work.to make i want to bring people here and young people. i have a outdoors plan.

let's go -- built in our great recreational assets. people want to recreate and have new jobs and we can do that. >> time for health care. but switchover. 97% of our citizens are covered under act 48. one of the best percentages in the united states. has beenealth connect riddled with numerous problems. administration, where do we go from here? we have to pull the plug on health connect. we look at what has been happening over the last number of years, a number of failed promises to shore up this i pay structure that is dysfunctional, that never worked and we are still getting calls every single

day from people that are having problems accessing the system and getting changes in the system. after spending over $200 million on this failed initiative. you have to have the will and show the courage and the leadership to say enough is enough. and what we digging need to do is transition to something else whether it is the federal exchange are going in with another state, whether it is connecticut or hawaii or some of the else, there is other alternatives to what we are doing. we have a custom-made structure. is they can't afford it. >> you are going to tweak it and take a lot of buses and go up to montreal and it will get you an $18 x-ray.

i have had more operations of their, i get my implants after i get a line -- it with a line drive and get knocked out and i pay out of my pocket. i don't use my insurance. it is a quality job and anything else. i will drive to -- the bus. let's get whatever it is, all the stuff that you need, we will get them for $.10 on the dollar. the system down here is broken and we think we are going to fix it, this little state? no, you're not. we do not need borders. that is our problem on the planet. we have two many borders and we have to get rid of them. that is the thing. you make this -- harvest the energy from the tides going up and down, i tell you, we won't have any problems. get regional. moderator: health care in the future? ms. minter: it is the rising cost of health care that is really breaking the banks of our families, our school budgets and

rising property taxes and our state budget. what we need to do, first and foremost, is address that rising health care costs. that is why we need to reform, we need to continue on our health care reform agenda. moving away from the current system of incentivizing more fees, visits, pills and procedures. instead, focus on investing in health and outcome. that is the kind of reform that i am looking forward to moving. with respect to vermont health connect, this has failed many vermonters. i want to say that it is undermining our faith in government. i have overseen large i.t. projects in a $6 million budget. i know it is not simple to cut the plug. we have to have a plan if we cannot make dysfunctional.

i'm going to look at the independent assessment. we have to have a plan that doesn't take people off their health care. moderator: what do we do with health care beneficiaries if we scrap and? -- if we scrap it? >> we cannot scrap vermont health connect -- ms. minter: we cannot scrap vermont health connect. i understand that 17,000 people will lose their health care benefits. the issue is it is not simple to jump in the federal exchange because our programs in vermont support so many programs. the federal exchange will not cover. if i learn that we can't make this system work, i will come up with a plan that is thoughtful about not allowing people to lose their health care.

moderator: i directed that to you mr. scott. mr. scott: 30,000 people in vermont who are on vermont health connect can tell you that it is not working. we need to will the plug. 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 that we can fix it and it hasn't been done. it is time to say enough is enough. vermont -- there are other initiatives. i spoke to the connecticut, they said they could handle the medicaid portion within their i.t. structure. hawaii had the exact same contractor that we did, cgi to begin with. they moved to the federal system. they kept a portion of what was billed for medicaid. we could talk to them. they could give us the opportunity and ideas for transitioning to the federal exchange without losing any one off of medicaid. this is not going to happen overnight. it is something that we need to

transition to over the next year, have a plan. i am positive we can do it. moderator: if you are elected, would you support universal health care or the expansion of dr. dinosaur which has been proposed to allow kids up to 26 to stay on that program for children? if so, how would you pay for it? it seems to be an expensive endeavor. mr. lee. mr. lee: run your children more at a younger age. you get them out and you run them. you create your own endorphins, you have a healthier body. he quit eating the junk that we have here and we would have a much healthier environment. i tell you, i have seen -- david reed is on his deathbed in greensboro, he fought on mount -- on mount suribachi. he is 92. i shook hands with him. i bought a top 14 acres of his farm.

i am so embarrassed about baby boomers and what we have done on this planet with medicare and every thing else. i am ashamed to be taking any benefits from this federal government. these other guys that did it. when my father was on his deathbed and laying there, the psychiatrist says mr. lee, how are you feeling? he always had a great attitude. i look at the bill, for just $79 for saying ifo great. -- $479 for saying i feel great. ms. minter: reducing the cost of the system. let me tell you about what i saw yesterday, the senior housing development in burlington. they are using a program, something i worked on supporting. they are providing of care to seniors in their homes when they need it most. regular routine wellness care.

you know what they have demonstrated? they discussed one of the outcomes and cost? they provided care for seniors and their home. it is reducing anybody's use of hospitals which is the most expensive care. they have demonstrated over $1500 of savings per patient per year. look what we can do when we think differently. that is what we need to be thinking. how do we provide more resources for prevention and community based health? and how we incentivize that? the health care we have now incentivizes people going to the hospital and treating them there. we need to invest in hospital that invest in health. mr. scott: i think everybody deserves access to affordable health care. i think that is a common goal. we have seen health care spending go up 20% in the last six years.

we spend a lot of time on experiments that did not pan out. transitioning from the vermont health connect to something else is a first step, at least take that structurally. dr. dinosaur, they are doing a study on that at this very moment. i am looking forward to the results, something the legislature had asked for. i'm concerned about taking that portion. when you look at the overall population of vermont, that is a part of our problem. we have an aging demographic. there is less people, less of our youth. when you have healthy youth, that is what drives -- they do not use them as much. we need more youth in the state in order to do that. take that portion out for dr. dinosaur, you are going to elevate the cost for everyone else from 26 the 65. moderator: thank you very much. we are going to take a very short break. when we return, the studio

audience will have questions. you're watching the gubernatorial debate on vermont pbs. >> we will return to the vermont to vote 2016 debate for the governor after this short break. moderator: welcome back. this is the gubernatorial debate on vermont pbs. bill lee, sue minter and phil scott are here. we have members of our studio audience who are going to question them. first up, richard smiles. >> for all of you, your positions on universal background checks for gun ownership in vermont? moderator: mr. lee? mr. scott: we had information, find out who's got them. guns don't kill people, bullets kill people. make bullets, reduce clip sized.

i believe everybody is entitled. if you read it right, a well armed militia. you have to join the militia. i will run it. i will not send you into a foreign war. you join us, we will fix roads and highways. we will lower the hunting rights. i'm a firm believer in allowing people to get out there and shoot. i will introduce pheasants. there is nothing that are in a richer jumping out from under your legs and your pointer being on him and you not -- and you knock him down and that dog goes and gets him and brings it back and drops it right at your feet. we're all hunters and gatherers. we have to continue that. i'm a firm believer. i would check everybody. half the people if you want a gun, you don't deserve a gun. ms. minter: i'm a strong supporter of the second amendment and vermonters rights who own guns.

i am going to honor the hunting heritage. i do believe it is time for common sense gun safety. i support background checks for all guns. why? because we have a national epidemic of gun violence. sadly, we are not immune here in vermont. i know what is really happening, because i have been told that we do not have a problem. i've seen the problem and it is often behind closed doors. i am talking about domestic violence. in vermont, the majority of our homicides are domestic violence related and the majority of those are with guns. in states that have background checks for all handguns, 46% fewer women are shot to death by their intimate partner. i say yes, i am going to stand up for gun safety. i'm going to take women behind closed doors. i will stand up to the gun

lobbyists. moderator: mr. scott. mr. scott: from on has one of the lowest crime rates in the nation. i am not advocating for any changes in the gun laws. we do it right in vermont. we should enforce laws that we have. i'm not advocating for any moderator: sufficient answers? >> yes. >> next up? >> what is your plan for the struggling farm economy? especially the dairy farmers where their only option for survival is to become organic. how could we help them transition into that? moderator: let's go from right to left. mr. scott: we have to recognize that the dairy industry is one of our most important industries. something we need to protect when people come here for

tourism. they rely on the farmers, the dairy farmers in particular to have those views and so forth. we have to work hand-in-hand with them. , we can't force them into paying, i know we talked about water quality in vermont and we need to clean up lake champlain but we can't put it -- on the backs of farmers. in this together. we have benefited from the farming community over the last couple of centuries. we need to protect them as well and recognize they are an important part of our economy. ms. mentor: farmers and our state are struggling. we have very low milk prices. there are additional requirements being placed upon them. i will support them as governor. our dairy farmers need technical assistance. i need support and best actress

-- best practices to support them. i agree there may be some, who if they can transition to organic for the prices are much higher, that might the eight sustainable option. i will have a secretary of agriculture who will help with the transition. i also have a program called innovate vermont. it looks to drive this in our key economies. our farm and forest economies. all of the exciting arms and food industries. we have cheese. we have incredible dairy products. this is the future of vermont. a renaissance of our great agriculture economy. moderator: mr. lee. mr. lee: organic. you have to go organic.

right from monsanto. quit killing all of our kids with high-tech foods eight close to the vast go back to the hexagonal double digging technique. like in indonesia. once you started opting this will be the bread basket. this will be the finest state to get our farms smaller. we will sell to new york, boston, montreal. we have to get on it first. lifting it out there, get the markets, and get 1000 chickens at the most. all organic. be diversified. have ducks. let's go back to the way it used to be. moderator: i would like to remind viewers, this is the first of four debates.

next week, the candidate for lieutenant governor. then the united states house on october 20. finally, all of the candidates on the alleged for the united states senate will be here on thursday, october 27 at 7:30. please join us. >> this is to all the candidates. what would you say to try to win over voters in this climate of polarization who feel disenfranchised a hand on trusting of government? ms. minter: i think our government is something we need to believe in, trust in, and feel confident about. that is why i have worked hard

to focus on being accountable to taxpayers. we have lost faith in government. i want to make sure we no government can function and is there when you need it. like we did in i read. we had 500 miles of roads damaged overnight. i was at the transportation agency. the emergency operations were flooded out. the state agency of transportation pulled together to innovate, to partner hand to do what nobody thought possible, reconnect the roads. rebuild bridges. in less land for months. that is what government can do if it tells great partnerships in that is what we are therefore. i will be a governor who make sure we're providing great service.

great accountability to taxpayers. moderator: mr. lee. mr. lee: you have to quit watching cbs and fox news, only watch this channel, only listen to this radio station. i am good friends, i go way back to common cause, fair share. the government is not the problem. the problem is the special interest groups, the coke others, the geithner propagandists -- the guys that are propagandizing. the sky is falling. i thought it was a beautiful day. moderator: mr. scott. mr. scott: it is an issue in this state. the lack of faith in in government across our nation. we see what is happening on the presidential scale it is alarming. what we can do is act appropriately.

20 years ago, i had no interest in politics but i started complaining about what is going on and stepped up. i had been in the minority my whole political light, 16 years. but i was always able to get something done because i have been able to reach across the aisle. to bring people together to look at what we should be doing. we should be public servants not politicians. that is what we need to do. act appropriately. so, i was put in a position of leadership and i was lieutenant by then senator welch. congressman welch. it was not because i agreed politically or philosophically. we trusted each other from a hand-two-hand basis, it was as simple as that. we need to rebuild faith and trust. moderator: frank is up next. question: thank you. i was glad to hear you speaking about a balanced budget earlier.

i listen to that every two years. i also heard that the deficit has been rising every year. and that it continues to grow and grow. i think i heard tonight it was 40 minute dollars. i thought i had read $120 million, i am not sure which is which. you've know i heard the budget was so bad, a deficit like that, the sky has not falling. when i see around vermont is wonderful. i had to make a reservation to get into a restaurant sometimes in burlington. is it such a bad thing that we have a deficit? moderator: ok. mr. scott: it is absolutely problematic. you need to travel around. get to bennington.

get to springfield. there are problems throughout the state and some of the deficits we're facing right now are the results of being overoptimistic in expectations in terms of the economy. they have been basing that on like 3% and been growing at another 2%, thinking it will grow by percent every year when it only grows about 1.5%-2%. there is always a rescission after. the year after, after the budget passed, it is a revenue downgrade. all of a sudden it is an emergency, they bring in the emergency ward. we need to be realistic up onto about what we can afford hands not have this overoptimistic expectation. ms. minter: i want to clarify

between a budget shortfall. it comes up short, we have to make it up. it is different from going into debt which we never do. we are one of the few states in the country that does not require a balanced budget. we need to talk about how we are going to grow our economy. too many are struggling. that is why i have invest vermont and innovate from want investing, creating opportunities, just like we did in derry, saint albans, my town of waterbury. pulling together, setting a plan in building economic opportunity and growth. we will innovate around 14 sectors of our economy. advanced manufacturing, high-tech, and green economy. forest economy. renewable energy. i have plans to grow our

economy. moderator: mr. lee. mr. lee: we do not have to worry about a thing. the thing is, i am leaving my doctor's office, they did not take my blood. they said there was no technician. i get on the road and wanted to eat something. i get on the road and i am following a truck. it has a quebec plate. it has 43 of the most uniform maple logs of the fall harvest. i had to follow that truck at 50 miles an hour all the way up from 14 as it passed my house and went into canada to be built. that is a problem. we have to do our stuff ourselves. we of the best for us, the best land. nothing is going to happen.

deficit? what deficit? we are not going to a deficit. we are the greatest eight on the planet. i picked this state. actually, it picked me. i've been here longer than i have been anywhere else. thank you. moderator: any follow-up? >> no, thank you. moderator: valerie is next. >> first of all, i want to hear what you are going to do for women's issues and i want to follow up. as i read with budget cuts, who would be our second female governor and it was insulting as a woman when you are nodding with everything that peter shumlin said. do you actually believe that?

>> it is not something we can coordinate. when we refused to coordinated with the rga and some others on ads, it was dismissed. we are careful. we cannot coordinate in any sense of the word. but i don't agree. we are about that. i have never run a negative campaign of my life. this is my ninth campaign, i have ever run a negative campaign. whether you are a man or a woman, i think it rubs you the wrong way. we cannot coordinate and any way with anybody. sue can't either. >> who is running that? >> that is a good question. who is running that? you don't know? >> it is by the rga or somebody. i don't know. >> oh, yeah. >> so, what would you do for

women in vermont? moderator: that is a question on the floor for all of you. we'll start with mr. lee. wage, a an equal full-time, equal pay, raise the minimum wage. for more money in the economy and the deficit goes down. my aunt is in the hall of fame, she taught me. hazel, her mother, broke her leg sliding into second at 47 years of age. i was raised with strong women. my great grandmother had all three husbands over for thanksgiving in the 1800s. that does not happen all the time. so, my grandmother said, billy, she gave me a strong cup of children's coffee with condensed milk and then give me a box of shotgun cells -- shells and say, go shoot dinner. that was my life. >> thank you for raising me question.

we know that 43% of women who work in vermont still need help. many issues affect women who are predominantly more often female heads of household, which are more and more falling into poverty. there are many things we can and will do. increase the minimum wage. one challenges women predominantly are in low-wage jobs. childcare providers, elder care providers. we need to help improve young girls and young women's educational opportunities. as part of my vermont promise to get more kids, including women, into those minimum wage jobs. we also need to promote them.

we need to have more childcare and i am one to be pushing for paid family leave so women can have children. i was a secretary of transportation. under my leadership, the number of women and maintenance positions double. we created new lactation facilities for new moms to be able to work and still be caregivers. >> as you may have heard on some of the ads, i am a vermonter who supports equal pay for equal work. i am a father of two daughters. very independent. very proud of my daughters. i want the best for them. i want opportunity for them. if we are one to grow this economy everyone has to pull in the same direction and an able bases. my mom and dad passed away when i was 11-your site and all. my mom raised three boys, she is the strongest person on the face of the air and she is the one that inspires me and we want to do better for women in vermont and it is something i will seek

to find equal opportunity for everyone. moderator: did that answer your question? >> what about domestic abusers? i need clarification on these things. thank you so much. >> the minimum wage was mentioned twice. it is supposed to be raised to $10.58 an hour by 2018. that is where it and, governor scott, governor minter, governor louis calmly what would you do? >> mi first again? you know, i was going to set it back almost 10 years ago when we had a debate on minimum wage. i remember the date of the debate quite well and it was sold to many of us to raise the minimum wage and tied it to the

index, the cost of living and that we would never have this discussion again. we will not have to raise the minimum wage itself. it will rise naturally with the cost of living. there was in initiative a couple of years ago that would raise the minimum wage up higher than the that are all standard. i am concerned about those small mom and aunt pop's who work multiple hours, trying to make ends meet. if you raise the minimum wage on some of them they are going to work more hours and cut jobs. i think we should allow this to work, there should be entry-level jobs, that teaches our youth something about structure. ms. minter: i will be supporting

in increase of the minimum wage to $12 $.50 an hour and more than that i want to make sure that we will get more vermonters qualified for jobs. this is the opportunity gap. we have too many people struggling to make ends meet his wages are not keeping up with the cost of living and to deal with this affordability challenge we need to get more vermonters into those jobs. we need to connect the dots between our businesses and our students with internships, apprenticeships, certifications. that is what my vermont prophetess is about. it is for a strategy. in one county, they came up with a terrific plan of institutions for higher learning. international training. her overall landmark and they are working in consortium with a group of businesses who want to know what kind of forces they need to have to get to those jobs.

connecting the dots. mr. lee: if it is going to get up, you need more money to pay taxes to pay for these services everybody wants. i want the lower class and middle class to make more money. there is a law in albany. 30 feet long. off the ground. a spoon goes from $30 and i bet there are a million spoons and that will stop that is what you have to do do. you have natural resources, he use them. start being more diversified. the problem with our health care is, everybody is out there -- live hard, die quick, leave a

beautiful corpse and that goes along with working. get out there and do something. make things. we are diversified. let's go make more products. and we do not have to worry about a thing because this is the best place to live. >> when does your minimum wage go to $12.50 an hour. >> it will push for 2018. >> i don't think artificially inflating the minimum wage is going to do it. when you think about it, if you go to $15 an hour, there is nobody at the company i co-own that makes less than $12.50 an hour, so those that make $15 are going to want to make $18. those who make $18 are going to want to make $21. those who make $21 are going to want to make $24. it all comes on somebody's pocket.

state government has caused part of this problem by raising taxes to the degree it has been happening over the past seven years. let's focus on the economy. more opportunity for everyone. i think if you ask those who are graduating, the 10,000 students graduating every year, whether it is a $15 an hour minimum wage that is going to keep them here i would say no. they are looking for more opportunity. more affordable housing. more opportunity in jobs. that is what we should be focusing on. growing economy so we can attract more youth and rev up our economy. we are faltering, we are missing the mark and we have been missing the mark for the last seven or eight years because

we're not focusing on what we can do to help ourselves. we are artificially raising everything to take care of it. ms. minter: it can help it people off the services they want to be independent and self-sufficient. it can help get people off of the services they want to be able to be independent and self sufficient. i worked very hard a secretary of transportation to make sure the folks on the front line, the folks who are there are working hard and are dedicated to making sure your roads are safe in the winter and safe in the summer. i wanted to make sure they had a higher wage. we were able to increase their

wage without having to bump up every other part of the business so i think this misses can do like we have done in government. let's make sure we do not have such a huge disparity between people at the top and people who are giving their work daily. i have been so inspired by the folks that actually give of themselves stay after day, believing in keeping our roads safe and i am thrilled i was able to help them increase their wages and earnings. >> you have to be more creative. take 200, put them in a box. put the box around the side of your house. you paint it lack. you put in a small solar fan, it will heat up the whole side of the house. we don't think outside of the box and the has to do with jobs. use your head. .e more diversified put the vermont label on it. stamp it on there, get it out there, and sell it because the state is a gold mine.

you don't realize it. this is a state of mind, it is a place that people come. i will bring more people into the state, they will be crossing here and i just got to get the double raise in montreal, that is all i am hoping for. moderator: thank you all. it is time for closing statements. and number ones is mr. scott. mr. scott: thank you for having us. i made it a practice in my political and personal life to treat others the way i expect to be treated, with respect and civility. that is what i would like to and on, the importance of leadership. we have a deficit of faith and trust here and nationally. it is incumbent upon us to act appropriately in our own backyard and inspire others to do the same. it is about instilling that faith and trust that has been lost across the nation.

our ability to make firman and -- and even more inviting place to test for working families and our ability to grow the economy, make our state more affordable, give our kid's the best education possible, all these things are tied to one common element, that is leadership. it will take strong, courageous leadership, the ability to build consensus, to change the economics. it will be some difficult decisions regardless of who is elected. it is essential we all tell the truth. don't overpromise and always, always follow through. mr. lee: ios had a good follow through. he kept me loose, kept me going, and i tell you something, thank you, pbs because this is the only station ever watched because it is the only place you can gain knowledge. in nebraska, the end stands for knowledge.

i think everything is fine. i see everything is rosy. what i hear is people are upset with their government. you're looking at the only guys who has his hands in his own pockets to i have only taken $20 and that was from a 91-year-old in wisconsin. i told him, sir, i do not wait your money. i do not believe in money and -- in politics. we have to get rid of citizens united. we have to do that or none of what we say here today will be a help. you have to get rid of the big problems to save this little state. thank you. ms. minter: i am looking for solutions. vermont is a real choice in this election. there are differences between us.

i have plans to create livable wage jobs and affordable college. my plans give tax bracts -- some plans give tax breaks to corporations and leave the middle class behind. i support a woman's right to choose with that exception and filled is not. like 98 -- 89% of vermonters, i support background checks for all guns to keep vermonters safe , which fill opposes. our optimistic about future. i believe in vermont. i am asking for your vote to be governor so that we can move vermont forward and build an economy that works for all vermonters. moderator: thank you for a much. thank you all candidates. thank you audience for taking part. next week, the candidate for

lieutenant governor at 7:30 right here on vermont pbs. for everyone at vermont pbs, thank you for joining me. see you next week. ♪ republican commerce man michael fitzpatrick is retiring from congress and his brother is running for his seat in pennsylvania's eighth congressional district. meetsds -- representatives in a debate thursday. will cover it live at 12:15 p.m. eastern on c-span. north carolina republican richard hirst except a -- seeks a third term facing democrat deborah ross. that coverage at 7 p.m. eastern on c-span and the c-span radio app.

>> following the second presidential debate on sunday, both hillary clinton and donald trump campaigns released new videos online. here's a look. president obama: by so many measures, our country is strong and more proper -- prosperous than it was eight years ago. we know the progress we have made. despite the forces of opposition. despite the forces of discrimination. despite the politics of backlash. that does not stop with my presidency. we are just getting started. that is why i am still fired up. that is why i am still ready to go. theirear anybody saying vote does not matter, it doesn't matter who we elect, read up on history, it matters. .e've got to get people to vote if you want to give michele and me a good sendoff, get people registered to vote.

if you care about our legacy, realize everything we stand for is at stake, on the progress we stake in thist election. my name my -- may not be on the ballot but our progress is on the ballot. tolerance is on the ballot. democracy is on the ballot. justice is on the ballot. good schools are on the ballot. ending mass incarceration is on the ballot right now. one candidate will advance those things and there is another candidate whose defining principle, the central thing -- they must his candidacy is opposition to all we have done. there is now such thing as a vote that does not matter. it all matters. ther we have achieved

turnout in 2008 in 2008 and 2012, i will consider it a personal insult against -- an insult to my legacy of this community lets down its guard and failed to activate itself in this election. do you want to give me a good sendoff? go vote. ♪ >> he extracts the most from people because people want to measure up to his expectations. he finds the right person for the right jobs. the qualified person for that job, he puts them in that position and he gives you a tremendous amount of responsibility. -- micromanaged the process. >> he is a mentor to so many and he is kind and that is something that does not necessarily get out there as much as it should.

♪ >> donald trump reeling from criticism by his own party's leadership, he tweeted this, it is nice the shackles have been taken off me and i can now fight for america the way i want to. mr. trump: i have never been so ashamed of this country. >> donald trump appears to be in total meltdown. >> the shackles are often now i can really do what i want. are you going to be more outspoken? mr. trump: i do not think i am that outspoken. i was impressed to see him sign on with the devil. >> he threatened to jail his opponent. that is a new low in american democracy. are you going to target -- tore into house speaker

paul ryan. >> it would not want to be in a foxhole with a lot of these people. >> you attacked mccain. mr. trump: give me a break. he has not heard locker room talk before. >> i'd do not know what good it does to trash people. >> you released a ad that revisits the topic of hillary clinton's help -- health. >> he is out of control in a way we have not seen. this is a nuclear bomb, we are watching an unhinged candidate. my iq withompare anybody, ok? mr. trump, we are going to go on. we're going to move on.

>> allow a response, please. >> what do you think will happen if aleppo falls? aleppo is a disaster. how stupid is our country? >> there sometimes reasons the military dues that. -- does that. i cannot think of any. >> we have to move on. audiencet to give the a chance year. >> let alone after getting a subpoena from the united states congress. trump, mr. trump -- >> one thing -- everything is broken about it. >> please let her respond. >> no, it hasn't. and it hasn't been finished at all. nice, one on three.

announcer: coming up on washington journal, the latest developments in campaign 2016, including the risk between donald trump and many republican leaders nationwide. she will talk about women's attitudes towards mr. trump. jesse moore from rock the vote effortson to talk about to reach millennium voters. and then challenges facing the consumer financial protection bureau following this week's decision by a federal appeals court that the -- is unconstitutional. be sure to watch c-span's "washington journal," live at 7:00 a.m. eastern. join the discussion.

betweenr: now a debate pat macquarrie and state coopery general roy moderated by chuck todd. this is courtesy of the north carolina broadcasters association. a service to the citizens of the state by the north carolina association of podcasters educational foundation -- of broadcasters educational foundation. chuck todd: good evening, i am chuck todd. welcome to the north carolina association of broadcasters educational foundation gubernatorial candidates debate between governor pat mccrory, and democrat roy cooper. we should note that this debate is happening at a difficult time. hundreds of thousands of north carolinians are without power.

threading still remains a threat for so many desk flooding storm is a threat for so many. we want to thank both candidates and the viewers come and hope that things return to normal as soon as possible. we want to begin by covering the rules of the debate. it will last one hour, and will begin with one minute opening statements from each candidate. i will then post questions directly to the candidate. these questions have been determined by me and an association, and have not been reviewed by the candidates or their staff. each candidate will have a minute for response and a 32nd rebuttal. i do reserve the right to follow up as needed. secondill be 92nd -- 90 closing statements. we ask the candidates to adhere to these time limits so that we do not have to be time cops.

welcome the current governor pat mccrory come and the attorney general, democrat roy cooper. [applause] there is a live audience. , by virtue of the coin toss, you will go first with the one minute opening statement. gov. pat mccrory: first, welcome to north carolina. this is a difficult time for our state. sadly, i had to announce two hours ago at the emergency center that we have now lost 17 people in these recent floods. our hearts and prayers are with those families. i am also extremely proud of our team. our national guard, i am proud of the president for working with us, i am proud of our emergence the operations team come at all the state and local officials. i do want to make an announcement that if you are in work out the and live below would like to am -- woodlake

dam, you need to evacuate the area immediately. engineers have not certified the strength of that dam, and i need to make that point very strongly. if you're one of the 60 holdouts, leaves. do not put yourself or our emergency operations at risk. i have had to deal with many natural crises, but i've also had to deal with man-made crisis. those were crises that i came into just three and a half to four years ago. we dealt with those crises, and we solve them. we are going to continue that during the next four years. our hearts and our thoughts and our prayers go out to the victims of flooding tonight. over the next few weeks and months, we have to do everything we can to help them. tonight, we will be talking about our future. for the last four years, governor mccrory has taken our state backwards.

throughout this campaign, he has not been honest with you about his record. he has failed to make education a priority. we are 41st in teacher pay. he signed house bill two, writing discrimination into our law. with a stroke of a pen, he damaged north carolina's brand, costing us thousands of jobs and hundreds of millions of dollars. we have had twice as many layouts as last year. so many people in the middle class are asking when they are going to see the gains of the growing economy. we need good jobs, governor. good jobs and schools are my priority. i am going to work to make sure we spread the word across this country that north carolina is open for business for everyone. chuck todd: mr. mccrory, first question. has --know, since it businessesassage,

have all moved events from here, a majority of voters come even want to support it, believe it has hurt the state's reputation. how do you fix the state's reputation without repealing the law? gov. pat mccrory: the thing that is embarrassing is that a very liberal mayor of charlotte with support from our very liberal attorney general started this whole mess. it is one of the biggest bids in our mashed -- fibs in our natural press that the bathroom also made by republicans. we had not want this issue up. it was the mayor of charlotte with strong support from the attorney general, who decided to put a mandate on the entire private specter who had public facilities, and say we will find you, unless you recognize a brand-new concept of gender identity and gender expression, a major change in culture. not just in north carolina, but our cold -- but our country.

it was not needed, it was not called for. it was the liberals who brought it up. as governor, i don't care if you're in the private sector and what your bathroom rules are. that is none of our business. , ifou are in our schools you are a man, you're going to go to the men's locker room, restroom or shower. if you are a woman, you go to their appropriate shower. no change whatsoever. roy cooper: house bill two has to be repealed. it writes dissemination into our law. it has been a does -- discrimination into our law. it has been a disaster for our economy. the acc, the ncaa, this legislation was passed in one day, and signed in the middle of the night. governor mccrory continues to go across the state, telling people that this is not hurting our economy. he attacks businesses who are opposed to it, and says that

everything is going fine. governor, what planet are you on? ishave to pull the this community together. we have to get this law repealed. we have to quit blaming it on ,ther people, blaming it on me blaming it on the president, blaming it on charlotte. what we have to do is repeal house bill two now. gov. pat mccrory: the attorney general does not refute the claim that they started this mess. it has been a swindle of things. it has embarrassed north carolina. if they just leave this new definition of gender expression and gender identity, which changes the whole definition of man and woman, boy and girl, and our privacy rights, if we're not going to have leaders stand up for the basic rights of either see in our nation, and our state, and our state, then we our -- then we are losing strong leadership. roy cooper: i'm glad he admits

this is an embarrassment to north carolina, because it is. we had investors come in to tell -- they controlled $2 trillion worth of assets, and they told us this is essentially state government inflicted recession. governor mccrory attacked them. three days later in wilmington come at a speech to the chamber of commerce, said we need to bring more investment and capital into north carolina. gov. pat mccrory: i got a standing ovation at that chamber of commerce event. chuck todd: i have follow-ups were both of you. -- each have 32nd responses 30 second responses. you're the chief law enforcement of the state. if you pick and choose lost to defend, aren't you setting an example setting -- telling the citizens to pick which lost to follow?

i took a nose to follow the constitution just like governor mccrory did. i told him not to sign the law. i told the legislature not to pass it, because it like -- because it right discrimination into the law. it costs us hundreds of thousands of dollars. the governor has spent so much time and money, and it has hurt our brand. it has to stop. has statedcrory: he that he is running a multimillion dollar commercial right now saying he will stop talking about social issues. that is all he talks about. he wants to cover up the incredible progress we have made in this economy. we have lowered on a point is to record amounts. we have created 300,000 new jobs. we have lowered taxes. all he was to talk about is a social issue. he is fooling the people of north carolina. let's get off the social issues. let's get out of bathroom politics and start creating jobs in north carolina as we have

done over the last three years. chuck todd: government curry, as a conservative -- governor mccrory, as a conservative, you said you did not want to get involved in city politics across the state. why is it ok for writing involved in charlotte's politics? >> i was mayor for 14 years. our line of responsibility is not to create new mandates for business. i don't think hillary clinton and barack obama should do it through the justice department, either, which is exactly what they are doing in changing the definition of vendor. in thell be resolved supreme court where it should be, not in a politicians hand. 21 other states in the country have joined the in that effort to stop government overreach into this very private issue. roy cooper: governor mccrory used to trust local government. now he does not. what you have here is legislation that is hurting our

state, and taking us backward. he is the one who has been all over national tv talking about house bill two, and talking about how important this legislation is to protect people , when we all know these are political scare tactics. ,his law was born in politics and unfortunately, now people are suffering because of it. it has to be repealed. gov. pat mccrory: we do agree that it was born in politics. you are looking at the individual who has raised millions of dollars on starting this initiative. chuck todd: let me ask this. perhaps the most famous transgender person is caitlyn jenner. what beth and can she legally use in charlotte -- what's bathroom can she legally use in charlotte? this is therory: problem -- roy cooper: this is the problem. we should not be getting involved in his issues. it gets us involved in these

issues, and we should not, because not only is it hurting our economy, but it is embarrassing our state. the governor just admitted earlier. they did not have to do this. they should not have done this. there are cities all over this country that have these kinds of ordinances. you should trust local governments to make these decisions. the mostmccrory: recent ncaa best club with noship was played kitchen by your barack obama are anywhere else. where she should go? in the private sector, wherever the private sector wants her to go. if she is going to a shower facility at unc chapel hill after running around the track, she is going to use the men's shower. chuck todd: i'm going to change the subject to the economy. mr. mccrory is running on a carolina comeback.

unemployment has been cut in half, in, summarize -- income is on the rise. why should vote is not reelect him? roy cooper: the governor wants to be carolina comeback governor. i want to be a come back to carolina governor. we need paypal to come back. we need the jobs to come back. we need the ncaa to come back. you go ask everyday working people whether they have seen a carolina comeback, and most of them will tell you they are working longer and harder and for less money than they did before the recession, and they would be right. wage growth is stagnant. the middle-class is not seeing the gains from the growing economy. the governor tells people that their taxes are down when many people have taxes in the middle class that are up because of him and legislative leadership, and

continues to say that house bill two is not hurting our economy. that is wrong. just did acrory: he commercial where he said no more social issues. he has brought it up or times already. no more social issues. let's talk about the economy. unemployment was a record 9.4% when i came into office. it was lot worse under easily and pretty you -- purdue. 12 years of extreme high taxes. we had the highest input -- highest income tax and the highest corporate tax. even south carolina was beating us. that was unacceptable. when i came to office, we lowered our income tax, we lowered our corporate and business tax. we got rid of a $2.6 billion debt that we owed to the federal government. $2.6 billion. if you had been governor, you had a barn another two ilion

dollars -- $2 billion. then he would've put another tax and drove on of women up even more. this is the philosophy that you followed as a state senator. this is the philosophy that you follow with your fellow leaders, it has got to end. roy cooper: the governor promised people a tax cut. he came through for the corporations, and for those at the top. everyday working people got tax increases. in 67 different ways, governor mccrorys -- governor has raised in cap -- raise taxes on middle income families. literally from birth to death. movie orou go from a get your car repaired or you buy , you look ates that receipt, and the taxes are courtesy of governor mccrory. he continues to tax the middle class. that is why the middle-class is

hurting. gov. pat mccrory: the income tax was as high as 7%. we have reduced it to 5%. business and corporate tax was 6%, now it is 3%. we are recruiting is this is again. mr. cooper, if you become governor, are you going to raise the income tax again? are you going to raise the corporate tax again? are you going to raise those taxes again because you were against our tax reform? are you going to be less competitive with tennessee and virginia and the rest of the nation? we do not have to raise taxes in order to fix what is wrong with our economy. the problem is the middle class is hurting. wage growth is stagnant governor, whether you like it or not. with your tax cuts, you have mostly benefited those at the top.

the statistics show that you are leaving out the middle class. this is why you are having trouble being honest with your record. we have seen it time and time again. is mr.t mccrory: it cooper that is raising half $1 million at goldman tax. -- $.5 million at goldman sachs. ofis raising millions dollars. the people in san francisco don't care about the middle last in north carolina. tell them where you're getting your money. it is not from people who care about north carolina and our economy. the average teacher's our next year will be over $50,000. according to the north carolina public school salary schedule, a teacher with a bachelors degree does not get to make $50,000 until the 25th year of teaching, or their 20th year if they have a masters degree. teacheryou raise

salaries early on so you do not risk seeing teachers moved to other state for higher-paying jobs? my firstmccrory: in year and second year as governor, i put together a group of the best teachers in the united dates of america. , theydemocrats leaders had not raised to japan five to seven years -- they had not raised teacher pay in five to seven years. before you get pay raises to anyone else, help those teachers with 127 years of experience. experience.ars of that is progress. i am the only one on the stage with a teaching degree, and understands what it is like to stand in front of a class and teach kids.

i know how hard it is, and i am proud of our teachers. respect andn them the pay raises they deserve. roy cooper: my mom was a public school teacher. i have seen how hard they work, and i understand the challenges that they face. just like his record, time and time again, the governor is not being honest about these years. and do notntrived reflect reality. the fact is, we are 41st in teacher pay, and 44th in person expenditure -- per student expenditure. we have teachers leaving north carolina for better pay and more respect. we have teacher assistance being fired. go listen to teachers and parents and ask if governor mccrory's changes have made it better difference in the classroom. just listen to them and see what they say. try to find the teacher who was making $50,000 a year. governor, you need to be

straight with people about public education. you need to get your facts straight, and to represent your record correctly. gov. pat mccrory: you are about as straight as another trial lawyer who became a politician north carolina, and that is john edwards. the facts, not the rhetoric, saying was the governor that help the teachers. not only did we help the teachers with pay, we also have a 15 to $16,000 a year for benefits. we tripled the rate of money for every school for supplies and books, something that was clearly missing under the previous administrations. roy cooper: when i was a summit democratic majority leader, we moved teacher pay from 42nd in the country to 21st in the country in four years. had fourmccrory has years. it is now 41st in teacher pay.

that is wrong for our state. what i will do is invest in education. i will not just talk about it and distort my record. i will invest in early childhood. i will make sure our classrooms have resources, and i will get our teacher pay to the national average. chuck todd: i have a 32nd follow-up. mr. mccrory, you have said it is not enough. where is it? to. pat mccrory: i had rebuild the economy, where we .inally have a surplus just three weeks ago, the attorney general just recommended that a rainy day fund was too high. we have had a lot of rain lately. you are just telling people we should have spent more of that money and not hold it over. that is fiscal responsibility. another thing you deceived the people on -- when i came into teacher office, teachers pay was 48.

we reduced it to 41. next year is teacher pay is going to be in the low 30's in north carolina. roy cooper: where'd you get the money? when you're talking about disaster relief, governor $500,000 directly out of the disaster relief fund. do note that is for best you know what that was for? house bill two. he wanted money for lawyers for house bill two and took 500,000 dollars out of this disaster relief fund. what we do is make education a priority. the governor's priority is continue corporate tax giveaways. what we have to do is put it at the top of the list of what we want to do to make sure our student desk our teachers get to the national average. gov. pat mccrory: i have not spent any money on hb two.

we have not spent one dollar of the disaster relief and we were approved to by the legislature, and i made a statement that we would not use that money. he knows that. he is being deceptive to the people of north carolina. you should know that. that is exactly what is wrong with politics today. the governor could have vetoed this legislation that took the 500,000 dollars after the disaster relief fund -- $500,000 after the disaster -- out of the disaster relief fund area -- fund. gov. pat mccrory: he said we have too much money in our reserves. what if i told you as families in north carolina don't save so much, go ahead and spend it. if he had been governor for the last year, we would not have reserves to deal with this hurricane. up in easterngrew

north carolina. as a state senator, i helped push through the disaster relief funds for hurricane floyd. we had to force that to make sure the surplus was there. i support a surplus. we made sure to help people who would been a victim of hurricane floyd. we will have to pull together and do the thing again. chuck todd: i'm going to move along here. mr. mccrory i will start with you. you signed to measures restricting abortion access in the state, even after pledging that you were not going to add any more restrictions to abortion. are you surprised four years later that your record is being defined as a social conservative? gov. pat mccrory: first of all, i need to correct you. a you consider having to have

doctor make sure that they don't do an abortion after 51 -- five months, that is not a restriction on the individual, that is a law. all it requires is a record that -- id not at all i make sure every law that is passed meets constitutional standards. texas did not do that. that is something the attorney general did not do. we had to abortion clinics that were treating women so poorly, they were not even cleaning the floor or cleaning utensils. not even cleaning them in between abortions. that is so cruel. we took care of it. i made sure that all rules regarding abortion protected the women's health, and also fits the spirit of the law. that is what we have done, and that is why there have been no challenges to our abortion laws. roy cooper: this is another

example of governor mccrory distorting his own record. chuck, you are right. on a debate stage like this one for012, when he was running governor, he promised he would put no more restrictions on a women's right to choose. yet he supports legislation that puts state government in the exam room between a woman and her doctor. you talk about a restriction, his legislation requires that a doctor send a woman's ultrasound to state government. ever you feel about the policy, we do not need state government bureaucrats reviewing women's ultrasounds. this is the kind of restriction that he promised he would not put in place, but he did. now he is coming around trying to say that is not a restriction.

i think people would say that it is, and you are distorting your record. gov. pat mccrory: why didn't you, over 14 years as attorney general, protect the women that were being abused in asheville and charlotte. it took a doctor in her america to say these women deserve a safe abortion, a constitutional abortion. you stood on the sideline while these women were basically being treated not like women should be treated. i am proudly took action. facilities,those because that is the law the constitution, and i respect that. roy cooper: this is another vehicle of government that governor mccrory putting social issues ahead of the safety of our citizens. you have house bill two, you have these abortion issues, you have refusal to expand medicaid.

what he continues to do is to put these right-wing social ahead of thees best interest of our citizens. that is where he and i differ. chuck todd: we're going to take a quick break here for a public service announcement. when we come back, we will have questions on policing democrat on justice ♪ >> so many call north carolina home. 300 miles ofoy pristine beaches and some of the countries most beautiful old growth hardwood forests as an mountain tops, from the coast to the mountains and everywhere in between, broadcasters and north carolina are prior to provide free over the air programming that educate, in forms, and