for today's forgotten communities. discuss policies to help underserved communities throughout the nation. then derek muller joins us for conversation on the supreme court role in the electoral process. its rejection of a theory that would have allowed states to regulate federal elections. the support of a weeklong series looking at key 2022 2023 supreme court cases. we will cover the morning's biggest headlines and take your calls live. "washington journal" begins now. ♪ host: this is a photograph of former president donald trump, a mug shot taken by fulton county sheriffs at the county jail in georgia yesterday. a first ever of a former

president. it has become a common but remarkable scene, a former president of the u.s. arriving in courthouse for a gel be indicted in criminal charges. yesterday at the jail, former president was indicted on 13 counts of election interference in 2020 presidential election in georgia. liz spent the first hour on "washington journal" -- we will spend the first hour on "washington journal" hearing comments and direction from you on this friday, august 25. here's how to jointly the conversation this morning. -- to join the conversation this morning. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. if you are a georgia resident you can use 202-748-8003. you can also use that line 48 text -- for a text and tell us your name and where you are

texting from. we welcome your comments on facebook and on x and instagram @cspanwj. we will hear from the former president momentarily. this is how the -- one local publications, atlanta georgia constitution -- journal-constitution, trump makes history by surrendering the jail. thousands gathered to watch the unprecedented event unfold. the former president in the jail house for what seemed to be less than half an hour in the intake process of fingerprinting, mugshot. after that returning to new jersey. in returned -- as he returned to peace briefly spoke with reporters. [video clip] >> i believe this is a sad day to america.

if you childish and -- if you challenge an election, you should be able to challenge an election. i should have every right to do that. you have many people you have watched over the years do the same think whether it is hillary clinton or stacey abrams or many others. when you have that great freedom to challenge, you have to be able to or you have this on the selections. what has taken place is a travesty of justice. we did nothing wrong. i did nothing wrong. everybody knows it. i've never had such a board. but they are doing is trying to interfere with an election. it is never been anything like it in our country before. this is their way of campaigning. this is one instance but you have three others in distance. it is election interference. i want to thank you for being here. we did nothing wrong at all and we have every single right to challenge an election we think

is dishonest. we think it is very dishonest. thank you all very much and i will see you very soon. thank you. host: former president donald trump leaving atlanta yesterday after the intake at the fulton county courthouse. we'll get to the charges, the fourth indictment of the president, the first on state charges related to the election. this is in fulton, georgia, atlanta. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. for georgia residents, 202-748-8003. the former president is back on what was formerly twitter. his first tweet in 2.5 years. after the return to new jersey last night, he tweeted donald j. trump.com, mugshot august 24,

2023. election interference. never surrender. his last tweet was on -- just before the inauguration of jill biden in 2021. let's hear from the first calder, dave on the line. caller: good morning america. this is what i was say. i think there's a lot going on here. we all know the d.a. in georgia is a democrat. we have to look at that. i think the american people see what is happening in washington dc. we are not stupid. this is election interference. everybody knows it. this case will go to the supreme court like all the other cases will go to the supreme court.

we note what is going to happening there. they will throw it all out. get ready for that because it is going to happen because everything is going to be an appeal. host: bob on the democrats line. your reaction to the indictment yesterday of the former president. caller: yes, sir. [indiscernible] host: your phone is breaking up a bit. can you give us a call back. curtis in maryland. on the independent line. caller: good morning. i've been trying to express this thought of mine for a while now. happy to get through this morning.

it amazes me that people are supporting donald trump. after he is broken so many laws when it comes to the election, when it comes to other things he has been in court for. i understand why they support him the way they do. any time you support an individual who says that if he was to get back in office, he is going to repeal the constitution, demolish the court system or the justice system, and any other institution dealing with the government. these people who are supporting him they want something other than the agenda donald trump.

donald trump has a dictator agenda. the people that is behind him -- and i hate to say this and i know people do not want to hear this, a lot of people there are supporting him on the republican side are the people, excuse me if i offend anybody this morning, are the people that aren't racist people in this country -- are racist people in this country and they think the country belongs to them and not with the see anybody in this country progress in this country. it amazes me that you will support a man that has violated the rules in the constitution, has no type of integrity, and do not stand for this government whatsoever. host: lacey in tennessee on the democrat line. go ahead. caller: yes. i am wondering if there is but

one side because what i do not understand is the protests and things i hear are from the republican side. i am wondering if there's only one side. he is the anointed one because he is getting away with anything he wants to do and if you try to do anything about it, it is a catch-22. i do not understand but i tell you what i do understand, he can call his troops out and people barely be aware in case there is another side company better gun up -- if there is another side, you better gun up. host: we have a line for georgia residents. on that line, najim, republican caller. your thoughts on what took place and what is ahead for your community. caller: yes. good morning.

the whole think yesterday was overstated for thisrico case they put together. this going to implode. the whole idea is to jam it self up because they know there is an election. this is peer unadulterated election interference. what is in the future? another victory and they are trying to make it so you cannot question an election. i do not by jill biden quote -- joe biden one the election. you will see is this thing goes on, is going to magnify and then what are we going to do? joe biden's policies has failed.

look at the situation in hawaii. look at the condition of the country. we are on the verge of a third world war because of the insane militarization of what we have done in ukraine. jill you will see -- you will see, down will win in 2024 because of this interference going on right now. host: the georgia official at point person for investigating charges of interference in the election in georgia was to secretary of state brad raffensperger who's testify before the grand jury and may be called to testify in the case against donald trump and the other codefendants. he was on this program in 2021 and he talked about that moment that president trump called seeking additional votes in georgia. [video clip] >> i stood on the truth. i stood on the law.

sitting constitution and some people had a problem with that. i'm grateful for republicans that support me. it was a difficult and hard loss for us but understand you always believe in the rule of law and you fight hard to protect the constitution. when i talk to some people these days, i get -- people so aligned with president trump and they want me to somehow fudge the numbers, put my hand on the skill, and i did not do that. host: some reaction on social media via text from the arraignment yesterday. the indictment intake process of the former president from steven says that trump is going to try and use election interference is a different strategy, you will be found guilty quickly. the case is not about election difference. it is about trump trying to still an election. pamela says i think it is a disgrace for our country we have

to be here because trump could not accept a loss. he conspired to overturn the election. he always been a criminal. anthony said i think the indictments are having the opposite of the intended effect. stephen in arizona, i would caution all sides to consider the court of balance, factual evidence is what matters, not opinions, not emotions. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. for those of you in georgia, the line is 202-748-8003. we go to florida. llatricia, democratic caller. caller: good morning. i want to speak about president trump and never surrender tweet he posted but he did some at yesterday. it is like everything else he does. he can tell you one thing but

show you something else. i am more appalled at other republicans who support trump and not our constitution. we cannot be a supporter of trump and support the constitution. it is not patriotic. i want to remind people about when al gore ran against george bush. al gore loss. which cost him the presidency. not once did anybody write it. not once did anybody attack our capital. not once did anyone try to go against the government. he lost. president bush was sworn in. 62 courts have denied president trump the ability to fight this fraudulent election because it and he lost in all 62 course. this should be tried in court. he has laws. this is no other way to say it.

people do not wake up, i do not understand what our country is coming to. thank you for taking my call. host: james in arkansas on the independent line. caller: good morning, america, my fellow veterans and americans. i want to say something. trump says he has the right to reject election. he had the right and went to court 62 times and was denied. it is a good think al capone is not running for president. there was say the justice department is weaponizing against al capone. wake up. he is a showman. thank you. host: we go to our line for georgians. barry in valdosta. caller: you have an independent called a few minutes ago. he said trump was trying to be a

dictator. if you sit and think about it, a dictator tells what you're going to do and where you want to die and live. that sounds about what biden is doing trying to be added to crack -- a ditocrat. donald trump did not really lose the election because it was a bunch of fraudulent ballots. host: where is valdosta? what part of the state? caller: probably about 8 miles from the florida georgia line in the middle of georgia. host: do you feel the most of your community members and neighbors, the people you know, more in line with your views or the views of say fulton county district attorney? fani willis? host: -- caller: more light in with my

views because they look at this as i am, election interference. and it is -- host: next up jimmy on the republican line. caller: i wish america would get past this garbage. that was three years ago. we have so many problems in u.s. open borders, fentanyl. we are going to go broke in this country. this is what the administration wants. they want communism. let them have it. look at the cities. look at what is going on in america. we were energy independent. now all we have is fentanyl, crime, biden does not have a clue. u.s. is going to fail if there is not change. i'm not saying it is trump. i do not care who it is. you know this country is on a downward spiral. china try to do everything.

we do nothing. we do not protect the borders. let's forget about trump. you want to put him in jail? fine. but what about biden? nobody goes after him. doj it would not do anything. the laptop has been there five years. if this is what you want in america, fine. remember what goes around comes around. thank you very much for your time. host: some of the latest polling we are seeing on the charges against former president. the headline from "politico" lock him up? a new poll has bad news for trump. a look at deeper into that story. they link to a "politico" poll, three out of five americans say trump should stand trial before the republican primaries or between 24 general election -- or before the 2024 general election. abe is on the line, left on the.

democratic caller. caller: yes, good morning. this is abe. i just want to remind everybody donald trump he mentioned that he was a snake. host: make sure you listen to the phone and not your television so you do not get confused. turn down the television and go on with the comments. caller: my television is on mute but i am still getting feedback for some reason. anyway, i talked to a lot of my friends and i remember when barack obama ran for president. they said they do not want a muslim.

i kept trying to explain to them he is not a muslim. the point is they just did not want a black man in the white house. because it was new. now this is what we got. they tried everything. i guess to keep this country white but the think is they have not tried working with both, with all americans. why don't we work with all americans so that we -- they want this country to be right so we need all the americans. host: looking deeper into the pole we mentioned, three out of five americans say trump should stand trial before the public in primaries or 2024 general election. the polling finds former

president donald trump should stand trial on the 2020 election case before the republican primaries in early 2024 or before the general election in november. something that held steady between sensitive documents case and election observation case. however, compared to "politico" june polling, slightly fewer americans say they understand the charges against trump, even as a majority say they understand the various cases. we will show you some of the timeline of the cases pending against trump and how it stacks up, it up against the timeline -- lines up against other key dates. host: ken in south dakota. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i'm getting some sort of feedback. i hope you can hear me. host: we can.

we hear you just fine. caller: somebody should remind the former president there's a difference between teaching and challenging. when i go to my teacher and i think he or she has made a mistake on my paper, my grade, i challenge. i say this is what it is. this is how i have answered the question and why did i not get the grade. teaching means --cheating means you use a cell phone or harm or something and i cheat. that is i think what is going on here. in the minds of some of our friends in the republican party, they do not understand the difference between cheating and challenging. that is it. host: david on the republican line in riverside, california. caller: good morning, bill.

good morning, america. as another dark day in america with the cap president with a mugshot. in countries where they not have good democracies, -- in russia recently they killed the opposition leader by shooting down his airplane it appears. in america, we do not do this. we do not interfere with elections and after someone who is president -- the way they are prosecuting trump is unlike anything i have seen. i think it may have started because at trump rallies they will have the chance to lock her up about clinton which was unusual for america and always made me feel sick. trump said during a debate he was going to put her in prison but once he was president he did not do that. the charges against trump by the government should be drop. the very least the trial should be postponed after the election. i want desantis. not trump but i think what is happening is un-american.

how can we be sure future elections will be free and fair if you are one and i'm of putting your political opponent in jail? -- one indictment of weight and putting your political opponent in jail? host: you think postponing the trials, let us say the former president won the election, how would that play out at the trials were held after he had won the election? caller: i am glad you asked. but i'm have been thinking about that. i think the president to get a root canal and claimed to be under anesthesia and the right president could pardon him. host: front page of the wall street journal. this mugshot, you have seen it and make sure -- i am sure. trump booked. i want to pull up the front page.

the wall street journal look at the four cases facing former president trump. they have a timeline of how the cases line up. first of all, mar-a-lago, classified documents case he's facing. 40 federal charges. that trial scheduled for may 20, 2024. alleged payments to stormy daniels is a new york case, 34 charges they are scheduled to go to trial march 25, 2024. the first of the four trials. the efforts to overturn the 2020 election, jack smith charges in the wake of january 6, there are four federal charges here. a hearing for that is scheduled -- not scheduled until august of next year, august 28. the georgia election interference, charges he was booked on yesterday, 13 charges.

they will arraign it sometime in early september. there is a proposed trial date of october 23 of this year for the georgia case. going up a bit to show you the timeline of where things line up for the cases. you got the georgia interference. here are the iowa caucuses, early january. super tuesday, i believe march 5 and then the gop convention in july in milwaukee. georgia interference case proposed trial october 23. january 6 case still no trial date. scheduled date for mar-a-lago date may 20. the scheduled trial date for the stormy daniels case is scheduled for march 25th. a collision of important dates in the political world for the former president and for the trials.

to our georgia line and hear from michael in georgia. democrats line. caller: hello, america. i love my country. i love my state. you can say those things but please prove them. if you cannot prove -- stop saying it. this country was built on the foundation that when you lost the race, you bow down and become humble. you say i loss. i'm not going to be president anymore. you be at the inauguration to turn the country over to the next president. something is wrong.

this man cannot be a president again. he is already attacked our country. i'm a vietnam veteran. i will tell you if you could have saw what i saw on january 6, i saw the attack of my country. it hurts me that fellow americans would attack our country. host: this is deborah on twitter who simply says this in her tweet, he, donald trump had the right to take his claims the court and it should have ended there. from william, dj t latest indictment, it has been made clear over and over again if you have enough money, you do not have to take response ability for your actions. barb, republicans capable of

bringing any lawsuit against any chap adversary. where are the lawsuits? maybe they know what they do not have evidence to convict anyone. i a senator or representative and tell them to bring lawsuits against the democrats. from the ajc, they are tracking the continued booking of defendants in the trump case. five more trump defendants about at the fulton jail overnight for we also have a live camera outside the fulton county jail. there are a total of believe 18 to turn themselves in and be booked. it is really there but the ajc writing about folks turning themselves in as early as or late as 3:00 this morning. windsor, connecticut is up next on the independent line, kevin. caller: good morning, america.

there are no political pundits going after each other. it is democracy going after trump. all these republican supporters look out the window because deep state out there is a bunch of flack. democracy stood up yesterday and that is trump's problem and we need it for the future presidents, feature trump and and nixon's that come along to try to slow democracy. -- try to still democracy. host: larry from illinois on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. just a couple of things. i think trump is being politically prosecuted. i've never seen any defendants have their mugshot put on tv like it was last night. all over cnn for hours and msnbc

for hours. if they want to divide america, they should just keep it up and probably get their hands full with a lot of things that will not like. i just hope if they do find something with hunter biden or his father, they pose their mugshot's or pictures all over your channel, msnbc, cnn and leave it there for hours. i am just sick of it. i do not believe president trump did everything correct. but i do not believe he deserves what he is getting right now. host: you feel the four cases do not stand up against the president? he is being unfairly

charged in all four of the cases? caller: i do not know that much about it as far as the facts go. i just believe he's probably guilty of some things but he's not guilty of all of them. i think probably within six months some of these attorneys will be booked -- writing a book about how they prosecuted an ex-president for the first time in history. there have been millions of dollars by journalists -- made by jewelers who like to write books and articles for newspapers. i just think this is overkill. host: it appears the first case we will see is the case in fulton county. the heline from the back to ajc, fulton judge says october trial date for trump defendant

writing judge set in october 23 trial date for one of the 19 defendants in georgia sleeping election subversion case. fast-moving developments, district attorney fani willis propose the new aggressive start date with 41 count racketeering trial in response to kenneth chesebro's motion seeking a speedy trial. just got mcafee wait in setting the trial date but rolling it will only apply to chesebro, who was indicted for his work in helping assemble a slate of quote alternate republican electors in georgia. you can read all of that article at ajc.com. in maine on the democrats line it is roxanne. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am baffled by everything that is happening.

i grew up -- [indiscernible] they worked hard. they did not have a gold spoon, everything handed to them. [indiscernible] there is no reason for all this. he did not go to the debate because of the criticism.

[indiscernible] host: mary in north carolina. caller: hi. to me, this is not really about donald trump. it is about our judicial system. i am very disappointed in this country. i'm disappointed in our government. i am very disappointed about what president biden has done . i feel he is getting money from someone to keep the border open. it could be from china. it could be from someone in mexico. someone is paying him to keep the border open. host: mary, go back to your comment you said you were disappointed in the judicial

system, in relation to the trump charges, where you disappointed about? -- what are you disappointed about? caller: the way they are handling this. the attorney general and the fbi is stopping any investigation the republicans are doing against biden. they cannot get it past the attorney general. that is one thing. it starts at the top. they are turning this country into a jungle. our judicial system is so rotten. i am tired of it. that is all. i'm more disappointed in democrats because at heart i am a democrat. host: this conversation this morning about the indictment,

arrival of former president trump and intake at the fulton county jail in georgia. trump facing 13 counts of election interference there in georgia as a result of the 2020 presidential election. taking your phone calls and comments. republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents and others, 202-748-8002. welcome georgia residents on 202-748-8003. i'm prior caller mentioned the tucker carlson interview that was debuted on x while the first presidential gop debate was happening. headline here from "wall street journal" about that interview. the program strained on eggs to -- streamed on x to 236

million impressions. the interview was is that them attempt to upstage eight republican rivals who were debating on fox news, the wall street journal writes it was a glaring display of the fissures in right-wing media and opening salvo in fighter that will test whether social media platforms can mount a serious challenge to tv news. during that debate, the candidates were asked if they would support the former president if you were convicted. of any charges he faces. [video clip] >> president trump has been indicted in four different states on 19 one counts. he will be processed tomorrow in georgia for charges relating to the 2020 election laws. >> you all find a place to support the eventual republican nominee. -- signed a pledge to support the eventual replicant nominee. if convicted, would you still support him as your party's

choice? please raise your hand if you would. host: from the fox debate the other night in milwaukee, wisconsin. the first gop president of debate. to our georgia line in savannah, it is richard on the republican line. caller: good morning. i remember not long ago stacey abrams and daley saying brian kemp cheated, stole the election of governor. for several years she said that and she said that she still says that. i remember hillary clinton calling trump illegitimate. he stole the election. i remember her paying for the dossier to illegally do things against trump.

i know for a fact, i grew up in atlanta not far from the courthouse, i had to move out because it is a war zone. atlanta is become a disgrace for the state of georgia. i remember democrats arrested dr. king 29 times for freedom of speech. my problem is atlanta, washington, dc, and new york city 100% democrat, campaigned on getting trump. what kind of justice system do we have when our people, district attorneys, campaigned on getting a man and finally doing it? you want him or you or

me going to that court system. this is totally wrong. it is election interference. i am from georgia. georgia is a great estate. -- a great state. but you cannot go down to atlanta without the fear of getting shot. democrats run philadelphia, chicago, new york city. host: the district attorney in georgia, fani willis will face scrutiny from house republicans. this they have line in cleveland.com reporting jim jordan analysis probe of georgia da who indicted trump -- analysis probe of da who indicted trump. he announced his launching an agreement to whether the district attorney who indicted x president trump on conspiracy charges coordinated her work with federal law enforcement. jordan, a republican sent a letter demanding fulton county da fani willis provide his

committee with information on her offices communications with the u.s. department of justice and executive branch officials and information on federal funding at the -- the office receives. to our georgia line, jabaris calling from athens. caller: john carrollton, just the statement, chump supporters read the indictment. the host, did you read the indictment? how much do i love c-span? i love c-span immensely. those are my thoughts about the covers you provided last night. it was incredible. a quick side note. mitchell on cnn last night.

i get a little jealous when the host of "washington journal" show up anywhere else. self-awareness, i do not know everything. i'm constantly in the fact that i do not know everything. the callers last night, the colors this morning --callers this morning are emotionally charged and want to see donald trump strong -- shrunk up and crucify because the media has integrated their outlook and they want to charge somebody. the bottom line this is election interference. you are seeing the election of 2020.

they are about to roll all election interference to lock you down for mail in ballot so they can repeat what happened. c-span thank you so much. wonderful coverage. have a great day. host: thank you for that. former president flying down from new jersey late yesterday for the processing at the fulton county courthouse. took under an hour and then returning to new jersey from atlanta. he had comments to reporters before he left. [video clip] >> thank you very much for being here. i believe this is a sad day for america. if you challenge an election, you should be able to challenge an election. adult the election was rigged, stolen -- i thought the election was a rigged election, stolen election. yet many people over the years do the same thing whether it is hillary clinton or stacey abrams or others.

when you have that greater freedom to challenge, you have to or you will have dishonest elections. what has taken place is a travesty of justice. we did nothing wrong. i did nothing wrong. everybody knows it. what they are doing is election interference and trying to interfere with an election is never been anything like it before. this is their way of campaigning . this is one instance where you have the other assistance, election interference. -- this is one instance. you have three other instances. this is election interference. we have every single right to challenge an election we think is dishonest. thank you all very much. i will see you soon. >> if elected, would you pardon yourself? host: as we saw from that article in the atlanta journal-constitution, the face of the trial set to get underway

october 23 in fulton county. comments on social media. we are entering a new -- of elections. this can happen under one-party to keep someone from running, do not be surprised by the opposite party does it. governors and mayors are next. this type of election indifference will bring on dictatorship. buddha says what i loved is when he was headed back to the jet, he had his window down and the warmhearted people telling him goodbye. michael, all the indictment against president trump will be dismissed due to racist attorney generals in georgia, new york. that both campaigned on indicting president trump. the siegel grounds for dismissal. pamela says i think it is a disgrace for our country we have to be here because trump could not accept the laws. he conspired to overturn the election. he is always been a criminal. lester on the republican line. caller: hi.

i do not understand. we have the biden family that has done wrong. we have a son that does drugs but yet you point trump as as a guilty party. we have had killing here in oregon every day and i mean a lot of killing. our governor is a democrat and she has tried to turn us americans against each other here.

i do not think everybody that runs for a political party that is innocent but people need to do each other a favor and look at what the democrats have done. because racism -- cause racism, and wars between us americans. we should love each other and instead of kill each other. host: mike in tennessee on the democrats line. what are your thoughts? caller: i am kind of sick of everybody saying the democrats are the problem. the border has been the same way for the last 40 years. democrats are going to be communism. it is amazing. host: any thoughts about the

case here in georgia or other cases facing trump? caller: i was born in georgia. i am kind of embarrassed i was even born there. what is going on there politically, i cannot believe it. host: to detroit, independent line, ramsey. welcome to the show. caller: yes. here is a party that is being corrupt since the mccartney days, nixon, reagan. look at the track record. trump has been to court 60 times. he had his time in court. but because of his personal belief, what he believes in does not mean a damn think. he has been to court and he is still acting ignorant. they are racist.

they do not pay taxes. it is pathetic. host: in the national review looking at a political aspects of this, the most recent national review, the headline, indictments, indictments of democrats. the photo of fani willis, the district attorney and he writes, the case is weak. it is not frivolous as indictment of trump by manhattan district attorney alvin bragg for allegedly falsifying company records in connection with hush-money payments's cover up an affair with a porn star. willis has a case but not the case she's hyping is a multifaceted racketeering enterprise in which trump is pretrade as -- 19 member criminal organization. says the overreach those yet another feature that distinguishes the state legal

system from his federal counterparts, electoral politics. money is not just a law enforcement official -- fani willis is not just a law enforcement official, she is an elected democrat. paula on the line in georgia. caller: good morning. i read the indictment. on page 57 you have trump and pence in a room discussing where all of them know it is illegal. people are coming in saying this is political. they do not read the indictment. they are ignorant create read the indictment. they have for collectors. -- take collectors -- they fake collectors. it's why there's so many people.

i think it is a rico case. i am proud of georgia. for prosecuting him because i think she did the same thing with other states. i know michigan is prosecuting their fake electors. they try to get the fake electors to take my vote and the vote of all the democrats. read the indictments. quit saying it is political. trump is a criminal. that is all i have. host: george sheskey passively on the republican line. go ahead. caller: thanks. i've heard the previous speakers and some of them make sense, some of them do not. i'm somewhat of a trump supporter. i did not like nafta, nato, ppp,

w.h.o. every one of those organizations were ripping us off. i did not like isis. they were chopping off people's head and recording it. obama and bush, together in 16 years could put a dent in those peoples. i do not like the border. our property in southern california. i do not like the way people are coming across the border. with the wall, it is a deterrent. all the professional said it is a deterrent . for some reason, china is bringing the fentanyl and we do not know who is coming in. came in during covid. it is ridiculous. as far as the election, election night i was in florida. pennsylvania was up 800,000 was at midnight. i wake up 6:00 in the morning and he is down.

who collects votes from midnight to six in the morning? i watch 2000 meals and i see these ballot boxes that come in the middle of the night with barrels for ballots. there is a concern about stolen election. it is absurd what is going on here. we have such a divide in this country. everybody against trump. what don't you like about him? host: it sounds like you do not like the processes that have going there including in pennsylvania. legal process to contest the election that found no evidence of interference and fraud in the election. it sounds like you probably do not believe it. caller: it was never adjudicated. noble went to court on this to show proof. -- no one went to court on this to show the proof. we are such a cook society with politicians -- crooked society

with politicians. if it would ever get to court, all the proof i see should be in court looking at this. but nobody made it to court to adjudicate it. how the hell can you say there's nothing wrong here? host: we showed you the moment from the debate the other night of the moderators of the program in the debate asking candidates if they would support the former president were he to be convicted. six of the eight raise their hands yes. let's go to in, asa hutchinson's and chris christie. [video clip] >> whether or not you believe the criminal charges are right or wrong, the conduct is beneath the office of president of the united states.

this is the great thing about this country. booing is allowed to buy does not change the truth -- but it does not change the truth. host: a couple of quick comments via text and social media. sydney, we should hold trump accountable for his actions. if we allow him to get away with this, others will think they can do this again. we must stop the corruption so that it never happens again. i think we should hold hunter biden and trump's family accountable for the corruptions they did with foreign money. and from gregg, democrats pulling out all stops to prevent trump for beating them again because they cannot do it in free and fair election. bernie sanders is not a fire which is why they did not need the justice department to take him out. arnold in new york on the democrats line. caller: good morning. i'm just amazed of people repeating the

same old lies and misconceptions. the d.a.'s and prosecutors would not put their professional careers on the line unless they had all the documents. remember they have tapes on this man. this man allowed himself to be taped. as these people start to flip because he is not paying their lawyer fees, -- they would not bring the cases unless they knew they could win. my mother used to have a saying. some people call so smart, you are so stupid. you repeat things that are not you and have not been proven. all those people that voted to say they would approve for donald trump to get back in the office, they should be disqualified. chris christie was the only one to have the nerve and the other person to say the things he has been charged with is beneath the

office of the presidency. half of the people who own businesses, someone came in applying for a job in their place of business, i am willing to bet my life they would not entertain giving them a job. why would you put this man back in the white house? host: back to savannah, georgia and hear from brad on the democrats line. caller: good morning, bill. happy friday. i've enjoyed to listen to my fellow georgians this morning. i have an odd twist on this. the case was brought by the d.a. in fulton county. it is one county. it is where the state capital is but there are other counties in georgia. budget those da's not pursue the same charges? fulton county has more money. it is incredible that fani willis had the time to prosecute this case or the resources to do so. we all saw the pictures of the

rice street facility there. knowing that joe is under investigation by the department of justice. -- knowing that jail is under investigation by the department of justice. how did this thing come to be to fruition in one county in georgia? i would like somebody to answer and explain that to me. host: one more call from georgia . john on the line, republican caller. caller: yes, thank you. you got several people call in to suggest and write in to suggest that trump should stop believing he won the election. isn't that a defense for january 6 charges against him and he goes and -- and the georgia charges? host: appreciate your input and all the calls from georgia and

elsewhere. there is more ahead on "washington journal". up next we will talk with former trump administration officials chris pilkerton and ja'ron smith with the new book out called underserved. that is next. later we finish our week long series examining key decisions of the most recent supreme court term. we dig in to moore v. harper decision regarding state's role in federal elections. the conversation with university of notre dame law professor derek muller. we will be right back. ♪ ♪ >> i have a dream. [laughter]

>> my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. announcer: watch c-span's live coverage of the 60th anniversary of the march on washington on saturday as reverend al sharpton, and more gather for a continuation of the dream dr. martin luther king outlined at the lincoln memorial in 1963. it begins at 11:00 a.m. eastern with speeches followed by the march on washington. watch live saturday, beginning at 11:00 am eastern on c-span, c-span now, or c-span.org.

announcer: american history tv, saturdays on c-span 2, exploring the people and events that tell the american story. august 28 marks the 60th anniversary of the 1963 what -- march on washington. take a look at the civil-rights movement beginning at 3:00 p.m. eastern with a commemoration of the birmingham children's march. then a discussion on the march on washington and martin luther king junior's i have a dream speech. also, we talk about the life and work of martin luther king jr. in the first comprehensive biography of the civil rights leader in over 30 years. watch american history tv, saturdays on c-span 2 and fi full program schedule online or watch online anytime at

c-span.org/history. announcer: book tv, every sunday on c-span 2 features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. at 70 p.m. eastern, former aclu presint and new york law school professor shares her book "hate, coworkers she argues we should combat hate speech with free speech instead of censorship. then, investigative journalists look at the rise of extremist groups in the u.s. and their impacts on democracy with his book "the age of insurrection." watch book tv every sunday and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at booktv.org. announcer: washington journal continues. host: we are joined by

co-authors ja'ron smith, former deputy assistant to the president under the trump administration, and chris pilkerton from the sba acting administration. they are co-authors of the new book "underserved: harnessing the vision of lincolns reconstruction." we want to dive into the book. since you both served in the trump administration, this has to be an interesting moment with the news last i of the arraignment of the former president. tell us what you did for the administration and your feeling of seeing the mugshot this morning. guest: i served as deputy assistant to the president for domestic policy and did work in the special system for

legislative affairs. my job was to advise the president on policy and policy agenda related to urban revitalization and underserved communities. i also spent time negotiating some laws, working on affairs and the hill. i think so far as what is going on, it has been tragic to watch what i perceived to be weaponize asian -- weaponization of the government on political foes. i believe everyone has their day in court and you are innocent until proven guilty. dd a has wrapped this almost like he is guilty before having a day in court. the whole time he was in office, he got impeached. there were different arguments

coming out and there was an entire thing around russia which turned out to be untrue. it is hard to believe what is going on. i am going to watch it play out but it is hard to see. i have been arrested before in my life and it is a hard thing to go through, the whole processing piece. but there are a lot of historic figures that have also gone through it. host: and chris pilkerton, what are your thoughts? guest 2: i served as the acting administrator in the general counsel of the small business administration. and i went to the white house for a thing called "opportunity now." i look at this from my perspective as a former prosecutor. i was really focusing on street crimes and helping the community.

you see local prosecutors stepping into federal prosecutors she's. it is a hard bar cross the board and policies of the administration are things we are going to talk about but are things that should be carried throughout the natural administration going forward. as far as the mugshot, it is everywhere and it is a sad day. but from a perspective, of policy, we want to push that forward. host: what brought you two together? obviously, you worked together in the white house but what brought you together for the book? guest: i am a person of faith. i believe jointly that our background and faith stories ultimately united us. in doing so, it is doing its work. we met each other working on former and karst -- helping

former incarcerated individuals get jobs and opportunities and ran a policy coordinating committee. since we started working with each other, we continue to do more work with each other and almost immediately after the administration, we continue to work together. host: so clearly some of the genesis you write about in the book. you write about the experience you had in the truck administration but the genesis happened during the administration. why did you write it? guest 2: one of the first significant policy interactions we had was around the first step act which was criminal justice reform. when i was at sba, the unemployment rate was very low and capital was flowing. and there was a concern from small businesses that they were not able to iron different folks

. we went around the country and figure out ways to get folks who had been disenfranchised and were not part of the labor process coming into small businesses. we -- brought formerly in cursory folks -- we brought formerly incarcerated folks to a program through the first step act. i was at the white house as the pandemic started to focus on opportunity now. and ja'ron smith and i were so focused on policy to help communities that it made sense to keep working together and after handing in the government id. host: help to what an underserved community is. guest: there are several communities throughout america that have had histories where they have not had asked as and have not been in a position to pursue the american dream.

whether it be access to jobs, access to a great education, or living in a community that has safety challenges or economic underdevelopment. these are communities that are economically dynamic. as a result, many individuals live in poverty and need to be served in a way where they get access to the opportunity. host: what was it about reconstruction that caught your attention? where you said, this was something left unfulfilled? guest 2: from my perspective, it was the vision of abraham lincoln. he grew up in the prairie, underserved in a rural community, and saw the opportunity for reconstruction to help make america not just from racial lines but also

economic opportunity for all. he talks about a concept of a city that was not a real city in one of his early campaigns that was a bustling marketplace where shipments came in and trading went on and labor was developing because of it. that is what he saw as the true ideal every construction. host: reconstruction failed african-americans. the policies of reconstruction and jim crow that followed. what did you see as a hope of reconstruction that you think can be applicable today? guest: i talk a lot in the book about a five-step methodology, being intentional, building trust, collaboration, focusing on outcomes, and data analytics. the number one piece is being

intentional. abraham lincoln was intentional about what the country would look like after the civil war, however he died before he got to see the vision play out. we had other presidents like grant that stepped in with a very intentional method. as a result, you had hbcus and a role movement -- a real movement like with frederick douglass to build on that. but then his vision eventually entered and took a step back. host: you pointed out that writers at the time, frederick douglass was one of them, that reconstruction was not only about rebuilding the south, restoring rights to african-american citizens, but about rebuilding the nation. guest: yes. we pitted poor whites against poor blacks with the start of jim crow.

not having access as a citizen. that is where we were at for almost a hundred years until the civil rights movement. then you had a switch from more of dependence on government programs. we are saying there is a very new wants approach between public sector and private sector and we think there should be as much of an investment in civil society. host: chris, you wrotinhe book that the simple question that stands out is, what is the plan for these disenfranchised communities? the question for the conservative movement is, how do we address it in a meaningful way that is consistent with conservative ideals? do you think abraham lincoln was a conservative? guest 2: i do. we go through in the book conservative philosophers who endorsed helping underserved

communities. what abraham lincoln was endorsing was helping the underserved the help them rise up to free markets. host: do you think today's republican party, members of the house in particular, since they control the house, will buy into some of the visions you are expressing in your book? guest: i think yes because what you see now on the hill is a lot of members in the wake of the truck policies are now rallying -- the donald trump policies are now rallying around underserved communities. you see them talk a lot about issues of rural areas. there is a law of support around things like opportunity and creating a robust economy. host: we are joined by ja'ron smith and chris pilkerton, co-authors of the book "underserved: harnessing the principles of lincoln's vision for reconstruction with today's

gone communities." we welcome your calls and comments. (202) 748-8001 is the republican line. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. for all others, (202) 748-8002. if you want to send a text, (202) 748-8003. you wrote in the forward putting forth a new plan that " re-examines civil society and rediscovers what it means to be american." what are the most critical points of society to be an american? guest 2: we have an acronym for society that helps underserved communities. the reason we feel that is not only an appropriate response to help underserved communities doing so in a conservative process means to take all the different programs siloed across

government, focused on underserved communities, and use data and collaboration and outcomes that will bring both sides together. you do this through a czar of sorts that is confirmed by the senate. similar to the way the head of the fbi is confirmed. this actually transcends because the issue is important. host: if you had a magic wand, the first thing you could address in terms of the country's social ills, what would you start with first? guest: behavior. when you look at civil society, there is a lot of trauma built up in all underserved communities. you have communities dealing with addiction, mental abuse, sexual abuse, and young people creating -- young people doing heinous crimes. this is with things the

government cannot do because it deals with issues of the heart. there needs to be a renaissance around bringing leaders of faith and nonprofit communities together to deal with the foundational issue. that is secret that will help people be resilient and then can take advantage of education and workforce opportunities. host: in your view, what is the role of the government in that? guest: scale. best practices and talking about what works. chris talked about helping underserved but that is really to do an audit of what is and is not working. we spend billions of dollars on different programs on top of each other. they don't talk to each other. it is hard for the private sector to get in because there are barriers from the government. host: you alluded to, when talking about the former president and the mugshot, having been arrested?

tell us briefly about your background. chris, what brought you to the work you did at the white house? guest: i have never been a perfect individual and i wrestled with my role in life. in making mistakes, i learned more about myself. i told myself i want to be in a position to help a community similar to the community i grew up in and create an opportunity. host: you moved from where? guest: i moved from washington and got the opportunity to work on the hill and thought republicans to do more to serve underserved communities. it'll did i know that years from then, i would work in a republican position and be in a place where i could advise the president. my story is just a story that anything can happen. even if you make mistakes, if you are resilient, can get back up and dust yourself off and

accomplish a lot of things. host: chris, you mentored your background at the manhattan d.a.. what else brought you here? guest 2: i went to a high school where service is one of the things there. that stayed true for most of my life. when i left the sba to come over to the white house, bullseye in the west wing said, what would you like to do? you have the opportunity to change peoples lives and help people's lives, there is no other choice. host: vivian, democrat's line. thank you for waiting. go ahead. caller: thank you. i was trying to get the line earlier but thank god that he let me get in. the one reason i am calling in is i am a 72-year-old black woman. i was in the hospital and

recently got out. i hope you can understand because my speech is a little impaired. this is for my young, black man up there and the white man too. you know in your heart and god's eyes that donald trump did all this. you know why? he said these words. all the democrats and anyone else has to do is play what this man said. he knows deep in his heart that the election was not stolen, but he still went and put lives out there. when he went to court, 60 republican judges said the election was fair. he called the man in alabama and try to get him to steal black votes, they all heard the call. why are you sitting there, especially the young black man, defending him? what has trump done for us? host: all right. guest: i will begin with your

last question. when i came into the administration, there were 30 hbcus feeling but it was because of the president's leadership that we were able to save those insecure funding. now you see a movement to invest in these institutions and levers to help empower black communities. we also formed the first step act legislation to reform our prison systems federally and allow for second chances. as a result, majority african-americans have been able to come home. we have one of the most robust economies with the lowest african-american unemployment rate. and also historic investment opportunities and almost 4000 different things across the country with $40 billion of funding. to me, that moved the needle. this shows because president trump, despite being polarizing,

as the highest african-american vote since richard nixon because many are seeing the fruits of investment he gave. host: do you think the former president in his campaign for 2024 would emphasize the things you just mentioned? guest: he did. the media did not cover it much. one thing he also campaigned on was the platinum plan. it would have invested half $1 trillion of capital for black-owned businesses. we also see the economic empowerment piece. from our investment, you are now seeing a huge investment in civil society. host: you right in the book an interesting phrase. "there is no marshall plan for urban economic development." is that part of what you are calling for you guest 2: that is

exactly what it was for. platinum plan was a half $1 trillion plan. we went through old grants that have been paid out and found the money. we actually found the very last dollar. we stepped off the white house cap is and where in the midst of all the destruction and graffiti and everything. the irony was there were folks inside the white house trying to put together this half a trillion dollar plan. host: republican line. good morning. caller: i don't have a life time. i am dying. it is one thing i share with a lot of folks in the lat community. i am going to die young and i am afraid my son will grow up fatherless. i know about being left behind

in communities. the more success i have had in and out of school, the less interest i have had with the powers that be. solutions happen on the block. this like when we have the bio attack with covid, we have no action report on how to serve our children that were kicked out of school. i built a 50 foot trailer with 30 stationary bikes and i have been pulling it around to public housing and many places in richmond and districtwide. we need to approach poverty with health and education, not with law and order. you all in america, there are solutions. if we turn small business loose on them, we are going to win again. host: thank you. guest 2: i am sorry to hear

about your circumstances. i agree that small business is the engine of our economy. i certainly agree activities during the pandemic -- our children will be facing those for years and years. while we were in the white house, in october 2020, the president signed an executive order focused on mental and draw health. to what you were saying before, there were a lot of programs around the government that focus on mental health that they are not necessarily working together in an impactful way. host: we talked a bit of the urban communities, but you are looking at not just urban but many rural community which faced loss of population and loss of health care facilities. guest: when it comes to underserved communities, one third are white, one third are black, and one third are hispanic. this issue spans across america.

these are nonpartisan issues where republicans and democrats should work together. in the book, if you see who endorsed the book, we have some people who are nonpartisan and work alongside us like van jones who works together with individuals like us. we worked with secretary carson and individuals like cory booker and senator scott. these are bipartisan solutions and we want to leverage the book to lead into this. host: i was going to ask how you got iced tea to do the forward for your book? guest: ice cube. [laughter] he worked with us on the platinum plan. he had reached out to the donald trump administration to look at what we were going to do for the african-american community. when we talk about the half a

trillion dollars, that comes from ice cube's leadership. even after that, chris and i worked with ice cube and the nfl to work on supply chain diversity. we were able to secure $150 billion in new contracts with african-americans. host: washington, d.c. democrat line. caller: hello. these two men are currently living or grew up in d.c. i want to say that i am glad you all helped on the first step act with cooperation from democrats and republicans and independents . i wish he could have gone further. there were some right wing members of congress that held it back from going further. but i am proud of the accomplishments you did do with that. i also want to say that i think abraham lincoln would be a

little bit disappointed, a lot disappointed, in the right wing republicans trying to overturn democracy when that was the one principle he tried to uphold when he resisted the rebellion by the southern states. i do not think he would be pleased with where donald trump is as far as our election system and the lies about elections and trying to overturn an election. i think abraham lincoln would be very much disappointed in the republican party supporting that. host: chris, if you want to respond? guest 2: i appreciate the shot out for a good sica. when you focus on the policies and go back to the idea that it was about economic opportunity. if you go back to the economy from 2017 to 2020, you look at

opportunity zones that have been impactful. if that was political and a problem, they would have gone away, but they are still maintained in the advent and will be two accordingly. a lot of folks have great idea around it. it is about economic opportunity. we were just getting underway to really do this and hopefully in a bipartisan way that will continue. host: briefly tell us what president trump did for the hbcus and how do you see this as a potential model for other institutions, particularly when college loans are expensive and they are a role problem. guest: there were a number of hbcus on the verge of failing. they have loan forgiveness programs they cannot afford to pay the debt ceiling on.

we reformed the program and gave a clean slate. we also formed a katrina loan forgiveness program from her kindred -- from hurricane katrina which spans back to bush. we also brought back something that allows low income students to go to college. this also helps with sustainability. ultimately, we negotiated permanent funding by allowing for a bucket of money to be allocated to hbcus over 10 years. all these things combined and also talking about historically black colleges and universities put a huge spotlight around the world and the country with the importance of these institutions. host: what does this mean for other institutions in this country potentially facing similar difficulties?

guest: in the wake of covid, what we end up seeing on the heels of the trump administration and into the biden administration is even more investment. i think the biden administration took the playbook and in an even bigger investment with care act dollars and not only hbcus but hispanic institutions and rural institutions. but that is not sustainable. one of the things we were advocating for around hbcus is creating private-public partnerships to create sustainable infrastructure around funding, and create better pathways for students after they leave college and go to the workforce. and even create jobs. host: mike in florida. go ahead. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: principles of abraham lincoln's vision for

reconstruction is good in theory but he was assassinated, and i think that stopped everything. because the president that was in charge allowed the south to intimidate people who were trying to regather their lives after slavery and it just went down to the plan and so on and so forth -- the klan and so on and so forth. if you look at what is going on today, jobs are up, unemployment is down, the deficit is down. the infrastructure bill. we are going in the right direction and they need to support the president we have now because he has the economy going in the right direction. i know there is a lots of partisan hatred when you look at the facts on the ground, the president is doing a good job for the economy. he needs support because he can hardly get any -- because he

hardly got any votes from the republican side on the infrastructure bill. it is just kicking in. i am glad donald trump and his cohorts are being held accountable for what they did. there is no excuse. if you dish stuff out, you have to be able to take it. host: chris, gore thoughts? guest: i agree. the president who took over after abraham lincoln was assassinated did not continue things. if it was not for the assassination, things would have been different. president grant took over but inherited something that was very difficult and did not have the lyrical skills of abraham lincoln. certainly focused on the kkk and other methods of voter suppression and death and violence occurring.

you talk about what is happening now, you have to look at where opportunities are coming from. i will use the example of the textile workers in the south. at a certain point, 20% were african-american. then we went through industrialization and a life the jobs left the country -- and a lot of the jobs left the country. now, in 2020, when i was at sba, we focus on how to get rural communities to work closely on coding and manufacturing. we need to focus on this as a country because there are national priorities and our folks have to be at the front of it. host: adrian, north carolina. she said, as we improve other -- underserved communities, how do we help?

do you fear litigation since these policies target minority communities? is this fair? guest: why don't we start with justification. that is a big issue. the bigger issue is local policy. there are a lots of zoning laws that penalize individuals with taxes. let's say property values go up and you are on a fixed income. some laws will increase property taxes. a person on a fixed income will get out of that community. one thing we did work on was trying to increase a scenario where we could increase the housing supply and put people on a position where he could have the mutually benefit. we advocate in the book for having a mutual approach. making sure it can benefit the

investor and the community. host: sometimes public-private partnerships especially at the local level gets a negative connotation. how do you prevent and overcome that? guest: it goes back to the methodology and being intentional about the piece i just described, but also building trust. you have to work from the ground up, not the top down. so many programs we have federally take a top-down approach. we realize there is a diversity of communities in america and we need to play to our strengths. host: jermaine in virginia. democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. . how are you doing? host: find. caller: i just want to speak to the young lady that called in earlier as she was asking why

are african-americans taking up with trump? remember, in my opinion as an african-american male, who ever is trying to be silenced and you see the oppression trying to see them down or sway what they are saying which is not authentic or real, you want to raise a red flag. that goes on on both sides of the spectrum. i was raised democratic but it has always been more down to black and white. i did research and went back to the white house and how the entire blue and red skew started by doing research. do not just stick to the side and think some of us are set in our ways. we need to look at -- we do not really look at the big issues. that being said, i would always

tell someone, if i am going to buy a car, not tell me the good stuff. i will see that. i want to know, out of transparency, what are the things in your party you find negative and think need to be done? those are what i want to know. in your shoes and on your side, what are the negative components of your party that you would like to get better? host: ok. with the things you are writing about in the book, that is interesting. guest 2: the first thing is folks in today's society are very polarized. what we are talking about is bipartisan or nonpartisan issues. reading folks together is hard. once you do, having the trust in the ability to collaborate are things that are able to demonstrate to like the first step act and a number of other things. one of the things we think about

as conservatives is this is the underserved communities which are typically seen as a democratic issue. the reason we focus on conservative economic philosophers is that no, this is part of what it means to be a conservative. when full essay, i am a conservative republican, we want to be able to demonstrate that if you are, there were many. help lead the way. host: do you want to comment? guest: no, i think what chris is saying is exactly right. that is part of why we wrote the book talking about free market solutions, a playbook for even presidential candidates on why they should take leadership for underserved communities. we have historically done this as a -- have not historically done this as a party which is why we talk about the trump

administration. he kind of change the calculus. renegotiating the fair trade agenda. he brought more fair trade. speaking of the american worker, that is kind of a huge policy. also being a leader on criminal justice reform with the first step act. these are all things traditionally republicans have led on. and we also mentioned the hbcu work. this is the march me and chris are trying to activate, or mission we are trying to activate, in that there is more work to be done. it is some of the most important work we can do as a country. we need to make sure all of our people have access to the american dream. host: ja'ron smith and chris pilkerton, author of the book "underserved." caller: hello.

i will certainly get your book. the best book i saw that came out after the civil war was "the souls of black folk," by w.e.b. dubois. what got me is all of these free blacks started working and these white men would not pay them. the judges of how white men. i am saying, half of the white community in the country does not realize this happened. they think, the slaves were freed. why don't they make it? i think that book should be prime in junior and senior year of high school in every school in the country. i will certainly read "underserved," because that will deal with what has happened in the 21st century. host: what to mean this in teaching about the aftermath of

the civil war and failure of reconstruction and beyond? guest: i think you need to tell the full history of what happens and what the impact was on community. that is what we have kind of hinted on. the book does not even begin to go into the deep history of all of it. we tried to talk about different segments of history briefly, but there is so much more. chris and i were doing research on this and we were like, there is so much to write. we thought it was more important to get the totality of the conversation. where we were at, where we are now, and where can we go? so we can really start pushing the vision that we cannot wait for opportunity to be created. we need to create opportunity right now. you see this playing out culturally. whether in a rural, white

community, or an hispanic community. everyone is trying to search for their own community and how they can be a part of the american fabric. it is up to us as leaders to use our collective vision and humanness, the fact we all want opportunity and the best for our families, and to be able to actualize ourselves. that is what we try to catalog in this book. this is just the first step in creating a spark. host: chris, do you want to comment? guest: the last caller put the finger on it. the point that the slaves were free and we just moved on, but there is so much fertile ground. we went really deep into research on black churches which were such a critical component and continue to for the african-american community, particularly during

reconstruction. that is where folks prayed and worsened but also learned and were educated. folks were talking about policy. folks walked 25 miles to have conversations about politics and what they can do. when ja'ron smith was missing best practices, these are what we in our current times the to think about. host: marcus, chicago, democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? host: we are good. caller: i wanted to touch back to the question asked about the gentrification issue. i am in chicago and that is a big issue for us. a lot of times, the problem is the heavy reliance on private developers in order to provide

nearly all the housing in chicago. i guess we can touch back to the book, since reconstruction on, there are a few times in our history where the working class actually was able to advance and build for themselves and that was during the early 1900s when we had labor movements and were able to build power for people. but here in chicago, my question is, the wealth gap generally has increased significantly for all people. most significantly for communities of color. a lot of this ties back into homeownership. a lot of wealth is built by just owning a home. closing a wealth gap, i do not think is going to be reliant upon public-private partnership

or relying on private developers to provide more housing for people. in chicago, we have more housing than there are people experiencing homelessness, yes gentrification still becomes an issue. do you believe it is time to end landlording, provide public housing, and allow individuals to own and control their own homes as a right? host: thank you for the call. guest: i will say, what we are advocating for is a whole of america approach. it is not an over dependent on the public sector or government. it is bringing in the federal, state, local governments, churches, and nonprofits to create opportunities for individuals. i look at that as the five

prompt partnership for revitalization -- five pronged partnership for revitalization. it is a number of issues at once. you mentioned treasure vacation but that goes into affordability -- you mentioned gentrification. he also looked at behavioral health, knowledge and well-being. all of this happens at the same time. what we are suggesting is to very intentional about creating a new infrastructure of opportunity that accounts for all these different dynamics happening at once in underserved communities. some things i'm doing now is financial education seminars in communities all around the country. i am working with public safety solutions for america as we are amplifying solutions toward public safety, is also paying

attention to behavioral health issues we have in our country. my answer to you is, i wish it was as simple as what you are addressing. i think we need to have a fuller vision and longer-term vision for power in these communities and think outside the box as it comes to gentrification and how we empower those communities. host: ja'ron smith, deputy assistant to president trump. his co-author chris pilkerton was acting administrator of the small business association and general counsel. for the book, "underserved: harnessing the principles of lincoln's vision reconstruction for today's forgotten communities." we have about 10 minutes left. for democrats, (202) 748-8001. for democrats --(202) 748-8000.

for republicans, (202) 748-8001. for all others (202) 748-8002. caller: i want to say thank you to the gentleman who wrote this book. i appreciate their efforts. this is what the country should be doing. these two guys are building communities and jobs and economics. this is what we should be focusing on. i really appreciate it. if we have more guys like these, we would not have the problems we have. unfortunately, even washington journal is responsible for the wokeness and garbage and hate. host: all right. appreciate that. rich in illinois. independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call. in this discussion where politics -- when politics

approaches finances as it relates to moral decisions, so we are talking about making these decisions to underserved communities. there comes a moral issue of when did we stop the spending. because it is not economically feasible. where morally, we should be helping these communities. host: all right. chris pilkerton? guest 2: i appreciate the comments and understand where you are coming from. the perfect example of a policy that works and continues to work was ours. in the administration, we would work directly with mayors and

council people and people at the local level to figure out, what is your plan for the local community? the plan that works best from our perspective is you bring in the acre company, the manufacturer or what have you, and small businesses like places to eat all grown up around it. then housing as well. when you think about economic development, you can look at it from a moral perspective, but it is that rising tide component. it has to be intentional and planned and you have to use best practices. host: you are not in the administration anymore, but where are the opportunities those working best in your experience? guest: in the communities that have decided to leverage the program. we have seen it in alabama where they were able to use it in birmingham to create workforce

housing. same in gaming and places like yeary prince of a young -- like erie, pennsylvania. they have to give tools to revitalize communities but you have to have a plan for it. i have been working with some local leaders to further the cause. i am looking at what works with the opportunities of program and how we can help improve it to make through it is truly been a show. host: what are you doing it -- now? guest: i do multiple things. i am a senior fellow at light on crime and do things about creating public safety and reforming our justice system and a number of campaigns focused on closing the wealth gap and empowering communities. host: chris, what are you up to

these days? guest 2: i am part of a leading community focused on small business lending. i am a resident at georgetown focusing on small business corporation with a private sector and a senior fellow at harvard. host: jason in topeka kansas has a text message. you support the return of child types credits which has done more for the underserved community than anything i have seen? guest 2: we have to look at these collectively. that is the idea behind putting this thing looking at all the properties. the most important thing is you need a handshake between the republicans and democrats. there has to be a combined commitment or else we go back to our different corners. host: i, historically, have supported the expansion to child credit.

the biggest thing is able-bodied individuals being able to access the program with fireman's. i support the state approach. we want to also encourage work if people can go. that is mutually beneficial for not only the families but also children. host: good morning to sydney from florida. democrat line. caller:. good morning. one of the things i noticed is there has always been programs in various areas of cities, rural areas, where they actually have small businesses ready to function and function well. you have individuals who see the various funding parsed out through banks or investment firms or however they do it that come in and corrupt the process and their greed is palpable.

they just continue to do it. when it does not profit them in a way they planned, because a lot of the planning is them saying, this is where you want to be. but at some point, you have to go with the people of those communities and help them as they continue to build. a lot of them want investors that come in and rob the coffers out the coffers out-of-the-way so they can build -- rob the coffers out-of-the-way so they can build. now, you are talking about the need to work together. we only have one president at a time. when the president first came into office -- even when barack obama even came in, the first

thing mitch mcconnell and republicans set up to do was say, we need to make him a one term president. same thing with joe biden. we need to make him a one term president and let's find anything we can to this meditative and make him look bad so people will -- we can to make him look bad so people will vote a certain way. guest: whether it is republican or democrat, when it comes to these communities, we should figure out areas of common ground and worked to create opportunities for people. you can learn more about that in our book and on underserved book.com. that is what he wrote this because we think it could give a playbook for individuals creating a bipartisan approach

to underserved communities. host: florida, sean, independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. you call it the reconstruction period but i call it the instruction period -- the de construction period. i am from florida so i've talked about -- i talk about wildwood. you had the tulsa riots and everything. people call it racism but i think it nepotism -- it is nepotism. you have people controlling the power and it has gone on years. you have the same families and the same names. i am trying to be as brief as possible but you have to kitties, the romney's, -- the

kennedys, the romneys and more. i call it the boss hogg and he has his son or family members propped up and promoted. guest 2: it goes back to the idea it has to be a nonpartisan commitment. you have to work with different local organizations. i appreciate what the caller was saying. one thing that ja'ron smith and i saw during the pandemic and the opportunity now that the president developed was, when the pandemic started, we did dozens of calls with mayors and governors. some are ready for the pandemic and some were not. they were looking for answers. we try to provide the best advice we could. having a playbook of best practices will really move not just in pandemic times times of crisis. host: how radically did your

jobs change with the pandemic got underway? guest: it was a huge, radical change. you had plans to do opportunity now in multiple cities it only could do it in one which was charlotte. we also had to take work from the white house revitalization council and have that focus just on weathering the storm of pandemic. it drastically change what we thought would be a year where we could do the work on the ground of bringing communities together. host: one more call. carolyn in baltimore. democratic. caller: good morning. i want to commend you men for what you are doing. i especially appreciate you working on the mental aspect. i would ask if you could use your platform to work on imaging.

there are actually more depressed white areas them black areas. there are actually more peaceful protests then there were riots. but we see nothing but negativity when it is related to black people. there is a lot of anger in our neighborhood. there are people like me over 60 who lived through the 60's and lived through being thrown rocks at. there is a lot of anger and hurt and mental and emotional distraught in there. i would ask that you work on the imaging. black people are not all in jail. they are not all stupid. they do not all need the quotas they talk about. host: thank you. guest: i think the mental health component is so incredible. i lost a brother to suicide

during the pandemic and that makes me want to work with the west wing and get a bill on mental and behavioral health. i was proud of what we accomplished but i agree with the caller that this needs to continue to be a focus of any administration. guest: i was just having this conversation on the armstrong williams show yesterday. it's a huge piece and what me and chris are committed to is helping to rebuild society. we want to work on resiliency and the individual. the imaging thing is really hard. positive piece we are trying to push is not something that's always covered in the news and we are thankful that washington journal gave is the opportunity to talk about something positive in something that brings us all together. host: great to have you both here and the new book.

good luck with the book. guest: thank you so much. host: still ahead on "washington journal," later on, we will finish our week long series examining key decisions of the 2022 most recent supreme court term. at 9:15 a.m., we will dig into the decision regarding the state's role in federal elections and we are joined by the notre dame law professor. more of your phone calls because it's open forum and you can weigh in on any issues we talked about this morning or anything else in the news. (202) 748-8001 republicans, (202) 748-8000, democrats and all others, (202) 748-8002. we will be right back. ♪ >> sunday night on q end date --

q&a, the psychology professor talks about the differences between the six generations currently living in the united states, thbaby boomers, gen x, n y and the technological advances that shakes generations more than anything else and explores what impact it will have for the future. >> we can see real divisions showing up with more people identifying at the extremes of ideology or polarization between democrats and republicans on various issues, especially around race. i think it's good -- what does this look like over time? we can't tell what's agent generation at the moment but look at this across decades. >> her book generation sunday

night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on q&a. you can listen on our free c-span now app. >> c-span now is a free mobile app featuring your unfiltered view of what's happening in washington, live and on-demand. keep up with did -- the day's biggest events with live hearings, the courts, campaigns and more from the world politics at your fingertips. you can stay current with the latest episodes of "washington journal" and find scheduling information for our tv networks and c-span radio plus a variety of compelling podcasts. c-span that was available at the apple store and google place of downloaded for free today. your front row seat to washington anytime, anywhere.

>> this fall, what's he spends new series, books that shaped america. join us as we embark in a captivating journey in partnership the library of congress. we will explore key works of literature from american history. books that provoke thought, one awards and led to significant societal changes and are still talked about today. hear from renowned experts on these iconic works. also we will go to different locations around the country. common sense by thomas payne, a huckleberry finn by mark twain, their eyes were watching guard -- god and free to choose. watch our 10 part series, books that shaped america starting monday, september 18 at 9 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now or

online at c-span.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: it is open forum on "washington journal" for the next 15 minutes or so. it's an opportunity for you to weigh in on news items you are following or things we talked about on the program already this morning or other political and policy issues. (202) 748-8001 is the republican line and democrats, (202) 748-8000 an independent and others, (202) 748-8002. let's go first to the democratic line, david in new york. caller: hello? host: you are on the air, go ahead. caller: good morning. i wanted to address my issue to all the republicans and anyone who supports donald trump. i don't think you people are ignorant or unintelligent. i believe you are very smart people but what you have become

are victims of a con artist by the name of donald trump. a con artist is a person who lies and get you to believe and trust him and then he steals all of your stuff. this is what donald trump has done. he has stolen your trust, he stolen your vote and he's stealing your money and he's trying to steal your nation. pay close attention, people. a con artist is very slick. what he has done, they do good things to get your trust in order for them to do bad things. the gentleman you had on prior, the black guy, talked about the good things he did for black people. that's part of the con, to bring in your trust and he gets people from all avenues to trust him from the evangelicals all the

way to the proud boys and the ku klux klan. in order to achieve his agenda, this is what he does. i am going to pray for all of you that god will remove the scales from your eyes and you begin to see the truth. host: on to lancaster, pennsylvania, teresa on the republican line. caller: good morning and thank you for having me. i would like to thank geron and the other author of that book for putting such positive information out there and focus on bringing america together because that is truly what we are missing instead of these divisions. black people can be anything they want. thank you very much and have a great day. host: michael in bowie, maryland, independent line. caller: good morning, one

question on a statement. the other night on the debate, i was wondering what the questioners, why they didn't ask what the republican thought about the proud boys and that's it. host: to san diego, on the republican line in open forum. caller: some of the questions people ask don't make any sense to me. why would you think highly of the oath keepers? it's the dumbest question i've ever heard on c-span. when the statement was made about mr. obama what was said was i hope he succeeds. those words never get said and i don't know why it's so hard to tell the truth. he said i hope he succeeds. if he doesn't, we make him a one term president.

was that so hard to hear? host: thanks for pointing that out. this is from the hill this morning --

a look at the mugshot from the fulton county sheriff department of former president donald j trump. illinois, chris on the democrats line. go ahead. caller: how can we expect a fair trial from either party? we have already see grand jury witness intimidation after the indictment. there will be more witness intimidation and if they are found anything other than innocent, there is the potential these people being harassed for doing their civic duty and being jurors. host: we will hear from wilmington, north carolina, independent line. caller: good morning.

i'm calling to identify with those callers who were so encouraged by the last segment. i too was encouraged by seeing and hearing the discussion. i would like to salute c-span for what you do and encourage you to have more programs like that. to both the writers, i appreciated the way they presented the information. chris gave a good historical perspective to things as well as today and so did geron. we have to have more of that. it's an old story, divide and conquer which goes back for generations. i'm 81 years old and i was at the march in washington and he went to mississippi the year after that. we've seen it all. but we know we can do better but

we have to put aside the democrat and republican discussion, either/or. i do thank you, c-span for the times when it lines up along other lines rather than party lines. as much as you can do that, it would help. okey-dokey, the struggle is on. host: a good suggestion, thank you. we will go to kristin in arizona, republican line, go ahead. caller: thank you. i want to to my hat to geron smith. i was unaware that the total amount of money that trump was looking to inject into underserved communities, black communities and others, was over half $1 trillion. i didn't know that and that's

pretty ironic given the fact of what's going on now. i would also say that when people say did you read the indictment? i can almost reflect that question back to them, asking them if they read the indictment. i would say to the people who are cheering on the false charges against president trump, when your son, your male son or your male cousin or uncle or nephew is charged in the criminal justice system, falsely charged for something such as conspiring not to wear a mask were conspiring to protest against the government, will you cheer them on and say i can't wait to see those indictments roll out? it's interesting that you could be prosecuted for protesting an

election, you can be processed -- prosecuted by the department of justice for conspiring to stop a proceeding in the united states congress when the president of the united states is literally the article to power, the executive power vested in him. that makes no sense. then you have these other indictments in georgia talking about he is conspiring to overturn the election. the president of the united states has broad discretion to contact any person in any branch of government to ask them about what's going on with the signature verification or mail in ballots or duplicate ballots. then this idea of hush money, that's already been litigated and it was already determined for the outcome of that and the idea that the president of the united states doesn't have the

authority over his own documents when in fact, even when democrats were so bloodthirsty to get dirt on brett kavanaugh, george bush had to be contacted in order to get the documents on brett kavanaugh. that tells you that when your executive power follows you until the day you die. host: just to let you know about some of our corage on the c-span networks to day and this week and, later this morning, jay powell will give his economic outlook at the event in jackson hole, wyoming at 10:05 a.m. eastern this morning live on c-span and on c-span.org and streaming on c-span now. this afteron, the director of the office of management and budgetill be speaking at steny hoyer's annual women's equality

day luncheon live at 1 p.m. eastern live here on c-span, streaming on t mobile app c-span now and coming up tomorrow, it's a celebration of the 60th anniversary of the march on washington at the lincoln memorial in washington, rev. alharpton in the family of martin luther king jr. will be joined by activists a representatives from national organizations. our coverage start1:00 a.m. tomorrow and eastern. also on c-span.org and the freak c-span now mobile app. continuing and open forum for that couple of minutes, leo in minneapolis, democrats line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i want to comment on the segment with geron smith. i want to say that i am a graduate of the hbcu miller university in louisiana.

although i liked the segment, i did have some issues with it because it completely eliminated the voices of alumni from the hbcus who give their money and their time to make sure that these universities and schools stay afloat. when katrina happened, my school told us that we should shut down the gates. the alumni came together and we contributed a lot to the assistance of my school. we refused to let the school close because we were eight feet underwater. i would say to mr. smith that it's not only the government who supposedly gives this money to

hbcu's that allow them to exist also the power of the alumni who love their schools and who contributed to their schools and they want to see their schools succeed. host: how is your alma mater doing today? caller: it's doing great. i'm very proud of them and i will always be proud of the dillard family and the way it comes together to help our school so we are doing great. host: i appreciate your input and we will go to tina on the independent line in fort worth, texas. caller: good morning. i wanted to comment on that program. it was very enlightening. also, for me, for the

underserved, there are some places that don't even have running water in 2023. i don't understand how when things are not going their way, they tend to believe these people don't want to work and they just want free money when sometimes they don't even have opportunities that are available to most of us to be able to go to work. i don't know anyone who don't want to work for something especially to have a home and feed your children and some people still work three and four job to feed their children. i think there should be more programs like health care and what they need to be able to

live also. i would really like to see more of the younger people getting involved. those of us that are going into the 60's and 70's now, we need to pick those efforts up. host: thank you for that and one more in open forum in atlanta from terry on the democrat line. caller: good morning, how are you? host: fine, thank you. caller: thank you for taking my call. i've been watching and listening the last; was a couple of months ago. i do believe people need to educate themselves on what's going on with these charges on the 45th president. here in georgia, we had quite the excitement yesterday. a lot of the roads were shut

down so people were scrambling to get home during rush hour because of them trying to get him from the airport to the jail and back. i believe that the time he chose to turn himself in was not a good time because it did put some of our resources out of kilter, so to speak. thank you for presenting that on c-span last night. host: thanks for calling. thanks for your calls this segment. there is some more the program ahead. coming up, the final part of our weeklong series examining key decisions of the most recent supreme court term. we are joined by the university of notre dame law professor derek mueller and we will look at states involvement in elections and the independent

state legislature theory next. ♪ >> i have a dream -- my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of the skin but by the color of their character. i have a dream. >> watch live coverage of the 60th anniversary of the march on washington on saturday as rev. al sharpton, martin luther king iii and more gather for a continuation of the dream outlined at the lincoln memorial 1963. our live coverage begins at 11:00 a.m. eastern followed by the march through the streets of washington. what's the 60th anniversary of the march on washington life saturday beginning at :0a.m. eastern on c-span, c-span now,

or online at c-span.org. >> american history tv saturdays on c-span2 exploring the people and events that tell the american story. august 28 marks the 60th anniversary of the 1963 march on washington. on saturday, american history tv takes a look back at the civil rights movement beginning at 3 p.m. eastern with the commemoration of the 60th anniversary of the birmingham march. then the american enterprise institute jose discussion on the march on washington and martin luther king jr.'s i have a dream speech. author and journalist jonathan ike talks about the work of dr. martin luther king junior and his first biography in 30 years.

exploring the american story, watch american history tv saturdays on c-span2 and find a fu schedule on your program guide or watch online anytimet span.org/ history. >> book tv every sunday on c-span2 features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. at 7:30 p.m. eastern from freedom fest, theormer aclu president and new yo law school profeor shares her book where she argues we should combat hate speech with free speech instead of censorship. at 8:45 p.m., investigative journalist david nyworth looks at the rise in extremist groups and their impact on democracy. watch book tv every sunday on c-span2 and find a full schedule on your program guide or watch online anytime at book tv.org.

>> "washington journal" continues. host: we wrap up our discussion on the supreme court's recent term, taking a look at the decision in the case moore v harper and derek muller is with us. he teaches election law and civil procedure, welcome to "washington journal." guest: thanks for having me. host: tell us why the supreme court took up the case. what was that about? guest: moore versus harper came out of north carolina dealing with the redistricting case. allegations were that the north carolina legislature drew a gerrymandered map. the map was designed to favor republicans at the expense of democrats both the congressional

map in the legislative maps were drawn in a way that would advantage republicans in the state. that was challenged in state court and the north carolina supreme court said we look at this and we have a state constitution that provides a number of guarantees, equal protection, freedom of assembly, the right to vote and when we construe these provisions of the constitution, we conclude that the state legislature exceeded the bounds of the state constitution when it drew this map and engage in this partisan gerrymandering. that was challenged and appealed appeal to the united states supreme court and they were asked to examine the congressional map to say whether or not the state supreme court had appropriate place to step in here. the united states constitution says the legislature of each state provides the rules for the time, places and manner of

holding congressional elections in the argument was that the state supreme court could not step in under these circumstances and judge on the state legislature. that's part of what the supreme court was asked to decide. host: the electause in the constitution, the timeses and manner of holding elections r sen shall be prescribed ach ate by the legislature thereof. congress may at any time by law may or alter such regulations except in places of choosing senators. it wasn't just the map at stake here, it was the authority, if you will in this term was called the independent state legislature. . what was that about? guest: this question has cropped up in recent years. there is a lot of litigation and 2020 in a cropped up under parallel clauses of the constitution dealing with presidential elections like in

florida. if the constitution uses the word legislature and gives the role of the legislature to engage in the times, places and manner of holding the elections subject to congress, what other constraints can be placed on the legislature under state law, under the state constitution? on the one hand, legislature means legislature and you would think that means not the governor or the court or anybody else. on the other hand, the legislature is a body created by the state constitution. that indicates who the members of the legislature are and how they go about doing business and for the last hundred years, the supreme court has approved a handful of ways in which the legislature can be checked. the governor can veto bills by the legislature. the people by referendum can reject a law enacted by the

legislature relating to redistricting. the people by ballot initiative can move the power from the legislature to a ballot commission or to an independent redistricting commission. there have been some of these questions over the years but here was a question of the constitution using vague language. it talks about the freedom of assembly. when the state supreme court stepped into interpret those provisions of the constitution, is it checking the legislature for anything even absentee ballots or is it unable to track the legislature and they can only be checked by federal law or congress? host: the ruling by the supreme court was 6-3 upholding the north carolina supreme court decision, correct? guest: yes, it was. six justices joined the majority opinion which was by chief

justice roberts. we recognize that there are some ordinary background principles of law including state constitutions that constrain how state legislatures act. there is no question that the legislature has the prerogative under the elections clause of the constitution. that doesn't mean it can act independent of other sources of law in the state constitution. if the state constitution limits the legislature that's ok. if the state court interpreting the state constitution limits the legislature, that's ok. six justices agreed on that proposition. they dead -- they did leave one escape clause which we don't know what it means but it suggested there are potentially circumstances where courts aggrandize themselves, they take power away from the legislature in ways that are inappropriate.

that seems to be in extreme case where it looks like the state court is behaving lawless late and is not clear that would happen very often but it leaves the potential for some places were state courts can go too far. in north carolina, they said we are sending it back in the state courts can absolutely construe the state constitution to check the state legislature. host: what does that mean for north carolina and the map that was drawn? guest: the different issue that arose in the case was whether the case was moot. while the supreme court considered this case, there is parallel litigation happening in north carolina. the north carolina state supreme court had a midterm election and the justices on the state supreme court turned over in the state supreme court reversed itself on this decision and said we don't think we got it right that first time and we are not

sure the state constitution checks the state legislatures and were not sure the constitution prohibits excessive partisan gerrymandering. go back and you can draw the map you want to in the first place. even without the supreme court opinion, the state supreme court had already reversed this decision. this means the map the state legislature wanted to draw, that map, something like a 10-three republican/democratic split, is something that gets to remain in effect in the state legislature gets to do that. despite the fact the supreme court said yes you cannot check the state legislature, the state supreme court has already gone back to the state legislators a you can do the math if you want, we will not check you. a little bit confusing and convoluted but at the end of the day, status quo for the supreme court of north carolina.

host: we are talking about the decision on more v harper but also about the role of the federal election and the role of courts in federal elections. (202) 748-8001 is the line if you have a comment or question on the republican line. democratic line is (202) 748-8000 and for independents and all others, (202) 748-8002. you kind of alluded to this but the court is not yet done with this whole idea of the independent legislature theory? guest: it left the door open a crack. i think there is a lot of debate in the scholarly and legal community about what that crack means and what that open-door means. on the one hand, it's designed to be narrow. the notion that the supreme court of the federal court can step in and say state supreme court is asking flawlessly.

you justices are arrogating legislative power to yourself and that seems rare. it seems like an outlier situation. at the same time, we have seen cases in bush versus gore where there was an opinion and that case that resulted in two other justices saying in a related way that we think you are interpreting the ballot count and certification deadlines inappropriately. we think you've gone too far and strayed from what the legislature wants. you seen a couple of lower federal court judges at least in isolated cases say similar things. it's not clear going forward whether or not this will be that wide of an avenue for where this can succeed. they would say the state legislature did something wrong we think the state court has gone too far. i think there will be a lot of

litigation over that question the years ahead to figure out what that means but i also think the sense from the court is it's meant to be an extreme or outlier situation. host: one of the dissenting justices was justice clarence thomas and he wrote this in his dissent --

was it just an advisory opinion? guest: the majority didn't think so. there is this tension about what was happening in the case. while the supreme court took the case and granted jurisdiction and held onto it, the state of north carolina was proceeding in a related lawsuit in the state supreme court reversed it. it's a little awed to think that the state supreme court can take away a case from the united states supreme court. that they can somehow affect the jurisdiction of the united states supreme court. the supreme court is the majority and chief justice roberts said we hold onto this judgment that came from the previous case as a technical matter, we are still holding onto it and as a result, when we

affirm or reverse, it will affect that judgment in the case. the justice thomas dissent points out that the state supreme court has overturned his decision that was the basis for us hearing this case in the first place. on the one hand, you technically have a judgment but on the other hand, you have the reversal of the precedent that form the basis of the judgment. it's a fight between the majority and the dissent about whether to hear this case. i think there was a sense from the majority that they wanted to address the issue when we are not in the middle of a heat election. -- a heated election. we are deciding this well before any election is happening and well before these issues might come back to the surface in october and november of 2024. host: did the alignment of the decisions, did the justices, did their decision surprise you? guest: it was not the most

surprising after oral arguments. chief justice roberts was joined by justices sotomayor, kagan, kavanaugh and barrett and jackson. there was a lot of questions on that oral argument about how far the rules could go about whether or not the theory articulated by north carolina was consistent with the supreme court precedent. there was a lot of grappling with the boundaries of what this would look like. because there wasn't a lot of suggestions to overturn because the president goes back 100 years, i think there was more comfort from the majority to say this fits in with what we've been talking about for 100 years in terms of checking the state legislature. the defense said this was a dissension and there is a process of referendums and ballot initiatives and telling the legislature here's what you

can and can't do. that wasn't persuaded to the majority so it came out in oral argument and there was discussion about it but it wasn't terribly considered. host: we've got phone calls waiting but let's start with a tweet from steve -- guest: i did submit an amicus brief. it was on behalf of myself and nobody else. might amicus brief was not adopted by the court but it tried to take a different avenue than the courts approach. in this case, my amicus brief was to say that the other part of the elections clause you read earlier, not just the legislature gets a separate rule but congress gets to make or alter them. there is a federal statute that tells states how to go about redistricting. that federal statute includes the phrase "by law" that the

supreme court decades ago said this phrase by law includes state course that my not that -- that might need to be involved in the process.i try to avoid the harder questions about what legislature means and that congress has spoken and congress can indicate other rinses of government including the state courts to be involved. the court didn't adopt that but i was happy to file the amicus reef and be a part of that conversation. host: we will go first to albany, new york, bill on the republican line. caller: thank you, professor, i hope you can explain this to me. during the last election with biden and trump, it was my understanding that the states of georgia, pennsylvania, arizona and i believe one other states. the legislature was the body --

the only constitutional body that could change the election laws during covid. what happened in these states and i think that's what president trump was going after, the attorneys general or governors, they changed the election laws as to counting ballots after the election day and mail-in ballots and things of that nature. would that make the current president unconstitutionally likely? the legislatures did not make those changes to the laws. guest: there are lots of pieces to that. in states like arizona, some of the rules change because of federal court orders. once a federal court, and changing the registration deadlines under federal law, we are not dealing with these

issues but some states like pennsylvania ready change the absentee ballot deadline, that court decision was put on hold by the united states of dream cords or none of those ballots are put into place. then you had other situations north carolina where there was a consent decree with a lawsuit in individual election administrator to save we will resolve this dispute and solve it going forward. it also happened in georgia with absentee ballots but these are in response to lawsuits. there are lawsuits challenging election laws. there is an agreement approved often by a federal court and their opportunities now after some change in states like north carolina to allow legislature for other parties to intervene in those lawsuits. in most of these states, the rule as understood now played

out in ways consistent with the united states constitution. there are certainly challenges to that to say that in pennsylvania, these election administrators were given discretion to do things that they should not have been able to do. that they treated ballots different from state to state but sometimes those are questions about whether the legislature has actually spoken or whether or not it has actually left it open for different counties to run the election a little differently which was the challenge in pennsylvania and not indicate -- and not implicated in what happened here. there were lots of moving pieces as related covid and changes were made by legislatures and some were made by election officials or pursuant to state law or by courts. in those cases, there was opportunity to challenge it in court and we saw at the end of

2020, parts of the pennsylvania ballot dispute. most of the cases were found not to have any basis in law. new york city, good morning on the democrat line. caller: u.s. constitutional provision does not say that state legislatures have jurisdiction over all aspects of elections, only with regard to three specific categories, time, place and manner. was there an argument made that the drawing of district boundaries is neither the time nor the place nor the manner of conducting an election and therefore the u.s. constitutional provision doesn't really apply to gerrymandering. guest: there were a couple of briefs in the case arguing things along these lines, particularly from secretary of state ashcroft in missouri, talking about how maybe this is something left to the 10th amendment.

it says the power is not given to the federal government and are left to the state so if the states have this authority, they can draw districts as they see fit. this argument has not been very popular over the last 200 years. you think about the way that elections are administered in the united states. it comes from a theory along time ago by the late, great justice story on the supreme court. he said before the union, states had no power over federal elections because there was no federal election. there were no federal election so how could they have power? whatever state power comes for federal elections, it must come from express grant of the united states constitution. the manner of conducting elections includes whether you want to hold an at-large election so if you get 10

representatives, you both for all 10 or you want to draw them into districts or you want to draw five districts with two representatives each. the long-standing argument has been that the manner includes redistricting and the power given to the states. there are some people who have pushed back against that and say it's not a part of this authority at all and is something the states hold apart from this provision of the constitution. host: robert calling from illinois on the independent line, go ahead. caller: an interesting thing connected to federal elections in the state of illinois. we are heavily a one-party state. there was a law passed that says let's say two candidates are running for president and the electoral college vote will go to whoever wins the election.

x wins the popular vote and he should get the electoral vote. the legislature in illinois -- let's say the popular vote in illinois goes with x and he should get the electoral votes but if it goes toy, should that go to y? can you see in federal court challenge on this? if anybody voted for x and y gets the electoral vote, it will disenfranchise people. guest: i will give it a step. this is something called the national popular vote that's been kicking around for about 20 years. illinois and many other states have passed similar laws saying if 270 electoral votes, the majority of the electoral college joins this compact, we

are all going to throw an error votes to the winner of the national popular vote. the argument is that we don't want to have state-by-state elections. we want to have a national popular vote. there are lots of reasons why think there will be litigation if you get to 270 electoral votes, right now it's at 195. many states have joined on. it has a little ways to go but i think there will be challenges of it takes effect to say what we do in illinois is for our electors and we are now allowed to look outside the state -- we are not allowed to look outside the state. it says registered voters in illinois get to vote for president and we treat our voters differently than other street -- than other states. we will see when that day comes. host: justice brett cabinet was part of the 6-3 majority in the decision. in his concurring n, help

us understand that he says t supreme court today says simpl the state courts do not have free reign and hol that only state courts may not transgress the ordinary bounds of judicial review3+. in other words, the suprem court has recognized and articulated a general principle r federal reviews in state court decisions. in federal en cases. in the future he says the courts should and will distort -- distill that general principle into a more specific standard such as when advanced by chief justice rehnquist. what is he talking about their on this principle advanced by justice rehnquist? guest: back in 2000 and bush versus gore, it was a contentious decision out of the florida supreme court and the united states supreme court. a majority of the court and a 5-4 decision and there was no formal author but we know from recent papers that it was

justice kennedy that took the lead in writing the opinion. that opinion relied on equal protection clauses of the constitution saying that votes were treated unequally. chief justice rehnquist wrote separately with scalia and thomas. he said we are worried about these circumstances where the state court goes too far. he said impermissibly distorted the legislatures scheme or transcends the appropriate limitations of statutory review which some of the justices even and dissenting opinions seemed to embrace. i think justice kavanaugh who was a lawyer involved in the bush versus gore litigation on behalf of republican clients is suggesting this is a good distillation of these principles. the majority by chief justice

roberts did not want to commit to anyone thought. they said we will not articulate that but if you arrogate yourself the power, you might go too far. that looks like we will not necessarily get there. justice kavanaugh would have said it looks something more like bush versus gore. i don't know if there are five votes for that. if the litigation continues, i don't know whether there would be agreement or consensus about that that's what he said just is that we look to that opinion in 2000 as a roadmap going forward preferred getting out -- for figuring out which way state courts go. host: republican line, good morning. caller: you talk about irrigating, democrats did that. they did everything they could to manipulate the last election and make sure biden one. you know it and i know it.

they talked about what was going on in georgia and they recounted the votes. they recounted the same phony votes three times instead of finding out if there was any phony ones. host: we are focusing on the moore v harper decision and they also took up a case regarding the election map in alabama. what was the outcome of that? guest: in allen versus milligan, there is a question about the voting rights act and whether or not alabama had an appropriate congressional map. you think about the federal elections in alabama drew a map that had one majority black district and a majority citizen age population and would translate into majority on election day. the voting rights act through an amendment passed by congress in 1982 as construed by the supreme

court essentially required a majority/minority district as they are called where there is racially polarized voting and where we can draw a reasonably compact district for minority voters who coalesced to elect and have the opportunity to elect a candidate of their choice. many said we should have one majority/minority district and you need to droid based on some of the demographics of the state. there was a technical question about what the statute requires. the supreme court bite majority decision said yes, the sort of standard articulated by the plaintiffs here and the lower court was correct. it's likely that alabama will need to draw a second majority/minority district or something close to it. there are questions about what reasonably close to it looks like. that's currently being litigated

through another district. it had about 40% majority/minority population and challenges the lower order about whether it is implied for what the united states supreme court said. that's to be determined. host: tim is going on the independent line from arkansas, go ahead. caller: good morning. my understanding is that the case for north carolina was settled and nobody brought it to the court, it was john roberts who decided to make a decision and got to have his underlings to go with it. there is only so many words in the sentence in that paragraph. the legislature shall -- i didn't get to file an amicus brief like your guess but you talk about the lower words, they did not exist when the constitution was written. all of the swing states change

the rules, they screwed up the elections and now we've got the supreme court furthering election interference. wisconsin with a left-leaning courtney choose to disqualify the number one gop candidate from the ballot. i find this election interference very dangerous and i don't think john roberts should be in charge of the court. host: your thoughts? guest: when we're are dealing with these cases where we had a state court, many state courts are elected. they sometimes run expressly as republicans or democrats. sandra day o'connor was disturbed by the way states administer these judicial elections. there are questions about the courts. state courts hear way more cases than federal courts. they are the ones principally

responsible for enforcing a lot of state rules leading to elections that affect the federal election. there is no question the state courts we are seeing now and the turnover and was constant and turmoil and states over the years and turnover in the port about what it means going forward in the enforcement of the law. do we prefer cases brought in federal court or that sometimes comes and goes depending what we think of the federal and state courts. host: we are seeing reports from columbus, ohio -- what are your thoughts about that? guest: ohio passed an anti-gerrymandering statute.

it didn't have the clearest remedial solution. how are we supposed to remedy this? this has caused a lot of difficulty in the ohio state supreme court. they also turned over some of the personnel that made those decisions previously so the effort is to say lots of states have these independent redistricting commissions. let's not only have something like that and ohio but let's correct some of the things that have caused some of the turmoil litigation. given what the supreme court has said in previous cases, there is no question the people by initiative can step in and provide that guidance if a majority of the people in the state of ohio say so. host: the case we are talking about, many other supreme court cases, the oral argument for these cases available on our website at c-span.org in the

supreme court area. moore v harper is the hello, thank you for taking my call i will be quick. your guest failed to mention the north carolina the supreme court changed hands a republican got in and that is why it was reversed. on the electoral college she mentioned no republican would ascend to office as president since 1988 only because they have the electoral college. that makes them dictators or strongmen not a president. bush got in losing the popular vote, trump got in by losing 2.8 one million votes and he claimed close to getting it by losing 7 million votes. host: he did mention that the

court changed after that decision. any further thoughts? guest: george bush won the popular vote but the electoral college and popular vote have been mismatched and recent election that has caused debate whether or not we want that kind of system and there is no question, it continues to resonate as a topic of conversation among your viewers. host: this is a law perverted server -- law professors sorry, that will do it for this washington journal. stay tuned shortly we will hear from the federal, jay powell.

>> a healthy democracy doesn't just look like this, it looks like this. where americans can see democracy at work where citizens are truly informed our republic thrives. get it from the source on c-span, unfiltered, unbiased, word for word from the nation's capital to wherever you are. the opinion that matters the most is your own. this is what democracy looks like. c-span powered by cable. we are waiting for federal reserve chairman to begin his remarks on the economic outlook. he is speaking at a symposium in jackson hole, wyoming.

here's a portion of today's washington journal. we are joined by co-authors ja'ron smith, former deputy assistant to the president under the trump administration, and chris pilkerton from the sba acting administration. they are co-authors of the new book "underserved: harnessing the vision of lincolns reconstruction." we want to dive into the book. since you both served in the trump administration, this has to be an interesting moment with the news last i of the arraignment of the former president. tell us what you did for the administration and your feeling of seeing the mugshot this morning. guest: i served as deputy assistant to the president for

domestic policy and did work in the special system for legislative affairs. my job was to advise the president on policy we take your life to chairman powell. chairman powell: my remarks this year will be a bit longer but the message is the same. it is the fed stopped to bring inflation down to our 2% goal and we will do so. we have tighten policy significantly over the past year although inflation has moved down from its peak, a welcome development, it remains too high. we are prepared to raise rates further if appropriate and intend to hold policy at a restrictive level until we are confident that inflation is moving sustainably down towards our objective.

today, i will review our progress so far and discuss the outlook and uncertainties we face as we pursue our a mandate goals. i will conclude with a summary of what this means for policy. given how far we have come at the upcoming meetings we are in a position to proceed carefully as we assess the incoming data and the evolving outlook and risks. the outgoing episode of high inflation initially emerged from a collision between very strong demand and pandemic constraints apply. by the time the foc race a policy rate it was clear that bringing down inflation would depend on both the unwinding of the unprecedented pandemic related demand and supply distortions and on our tightening of monetary policy which would slow the growth of aggregate demand allowing supply time to catch up. while these forces are working together to bring down

inflation, the process still has a long way to go. even with the more favorable recent readings. the u.s. total pce inflation peaked at 7% in june 2022 and declined to 3.3% as of july following introductory roughly in line with global trends. the effects of russia's war against ukraine have been a primary driver of the changes in headline inflation around the world since 2022. headline inflation is what households and businesses experience most directly so this decline is very good news. food and energy prices are influenced by global factors that remain volatile and can provide a misleading signal of where inflation is going and i will focus on core pca which omits the food and energy components.

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