i even got white hair. learning the german language and now with this new me and they tell me to entrap the flame you want to know their story reminds her of fighting and reliable information for margaret. nato leaders have this week been meeting in london to mark the 70th anniversary of an organization that styles itself as the most successful military alliance in history however provocative claims from french president emanuel not crawl the plato is as he put it breaking into edge triggered an angry reaction from others not least from u.s. president donald trump who described the comment as nasty insulting and disrespectful for her part angle americal as usual work to seek some sort of compromise and consensus concluding that it had been

a very successful meeting so our question here on to the point is nato at 70 brain dead or fighting for it. much for joining us here on the phone to the point here in the studio in berlin and i'm joined by 3 excellent journalists beginning with my daughter bella colleague in showers who's a french born political correspondent and in a money well says gloves off macros braindead comments on nato diplomacy at risk also with us flooded here and she fall from the russian desk here on c d w e believes that it's nato is the perfect enemy for russia and nato didn't exist and for domestic purposes the kremlin would have to think. and very warm welcome to to most are leaving he's an author and senior at. tour of the berlin based daily to

target. and he argues that nato is still the strongest military alliance in the world the infighting at the london summit shows just how complex many security challenges have become the. matter i would like to begin with you head of the london gathering one u.k. newspaper the guardian newspaper said the meeting had the potential to be and i'm quoting the birthday party from hell there were certainly fears that things could get very ugly so now that the dust has settled is nato more united or less united than before. i think it is more united than before because we saw some surprises strong commitment from the u.s. president on the trump to nato strongly rejecting all brain dead comments by the french president no putting out from no obstruction from from the other participant that was feared about so their wealth in fights and struggles yes

but i think the unity in the airlines has been strict unison so it's interesting that most of the german headlines and some of that i was looking out to said to the summer clothes there had been no parole no disaster no but stop it all sounds pretty paltry for an organization that as we say sees itself as the as the greatest military alliance in history you're right it is a defensive position saying there was no i mean split up of all these but but giving but giving the. different kind of threats before using something from russia to china cyber war and all these things you name it it was not supposed to be in meeting it's not even called a summit it's called a meeting with no clear cut gender anyway so it was not supposed to solve these problems or get a unanimous position about new threats and things like this even though they found

a final. topic they agreed upon going to you are not doing vigorously. i am well i'm sure i think there was some sort of an agenda dreamed up to meeting there was a set of decisions that people had agreed upon before even the meeting that defense and foreign minister had to grade upon such and things that come with that london they can ration that was made at the summit i think that was important for them to meet does occasion of the 70th anniversary to reiterate and reassess. this alliance while old i was going on there was very interested what you might call role reversal between presidents trump mccrone with mccrone lashing out senator of nato and donald trump saying that nato that he's a fan of the nato alliance and the nato has come a long way in the last 3 years what do you make of all that well that's a bit so rich coming from trying to actually blast someone over very sensitive

comments i would say but as so. it's none of that a french fry because i also don't necessarily agree with the way a man or a micro actually addressed nato i think i get the point that he wants things to be shifting within the alliance and that's that's fair enough i think it needs some shifting but calling it a brand a target such a sensitive time where we having so many geopolitics issues i think that it's not necessary to right away to go and also it also goes on to show that he's a resorting to strategic is that our president comes to k.g.b. he says that he has achieved a lot using this blog to language he's adopting terms try to strategic and actually when donald trump actually shook shook up nato last year to result in countries to actually put more money into their defense politics so maybe he needs some kind of shaken up i'm just not sure dots not using the not using diplomacy to

achieve so is a very wise given the current political situation globally. and supporter what are people in russia likely to have thought sorts of sorts of things what would their emotional reaction be to seeing nato celebrating its 70000 adverse very it was march talk about so the british and the russians the media if you look or worked russian media covering from what from london it's a very cynical comments about martha being busy itself about some of the chief of staff presidents and prime min to. source of course of being involved each other so voice what i do i didn't to get all this involved that there was the 1st topic and the 2nd one was not the linking money to compete with the beautiful russian iraq it systems amid the new beautiful russian veep and systems so basically it's quite cynical views in russia was the opening through interest frightened of nato in the

way that people in europe are frightened of russia not at all i mean russia is so problem is on its military you know right today if this is new or russian film it brings in the russians soon you must involve another one by the law of the 2nd world war in russia which is a huge production which is supporting the russian national pride and the military history of getting a base north of strengths is the russian being frightened and i think the russians know that nato is not a annexing and conquering an imperialistic power. so they know the difference between the on the no wonder the keris if you talk that the normal average people are most koreans and 1st broke i mean no one really cares not though this danger from out there is the instrument the instrument that is that what it is devoted to goals for a consolidation of society for domestic issues but it's not such fear in the broth population like in europe there but it was interesting nevertheless to hear

a lot of new putin talking from sochi from the black sea resort talking about nato has continued expansion as he put it and then nevertheless saying that he hoped that a shared interest in common security would prevail is that must have a 1st step perhaps in a new direction some people are hoping that it is a dialogue a different kind of dialogue a different kind of conversation i think it's very very difficult i mean. cold rice the topic of new relationships with russia but i'm afraid it won't happen very soon there are just too many developments and still the annexation of crimea in the. the war is still going on in east of ukraine we will have the normandy meeting on monday coming up in paris we will see if that leads to something but we have news being you disallow must test a possible new relations and you know i mean you have you know. kind of one but given the reasons what we get progress on ukraine i whole showed me that given the recent scandal in berlin with the with the likelihood that the russians are

involved explain in the receipt of a candle for all of us. a man who was killed in berlin and tear garton supposedly and many indices point to that with the involvement of the russian secret service the. perpetrator was called but he silent about it and to diplomats very spelt. in germany so there are huge huge tensions right now so how is not likely to impact the ukraine beating on monday that this coming monday it will impact the meeting in terms of is this the right time to make a new kind of policy towards that to be approved and i think no german politician right now can say yes it is the right ok. i'm going to merkel going to burst the myth why they are which and when all's of the think they will go it will move and i

hope and i hope there will be some concrete steps the words collations in the eastern ukraine and i hope in the russian i kind of i don't know what's happened in paris next to the present. yes. things like that. i mean strategic partnership. agreement. there will be concrete steps in this direction. the debate about. the very beginning in fact but so far nobody has described. nato force to be reckoned with. the north atlantic treaty organization.

russia. summit french president. and the confrontation with. a common topic question deserves clarification you see very strategic question sometimes i hear is russia our enemy is it china is it the mission of the transatlantic alliance to. i don't believe so our common enemy within the alliance is the terrorism that has hit every one of our countries stricken. with president mccrone had set the direction of the nato summit and tweet that off tonight his partners especially in eastern europe. in addition he criticize more severely than any other say fun unilateral american withdrawal from syria and the actions of nature partner turkey in the region has micron's nato.

interesting question about a president in the future vision of nato at stake at risk he certainly you know he's arguing that it's all very good spending a lot of money on the military it's all very good having boots on the ground and being efficient militarily but you need to have strategic goals and the central strategic goals we just saw was that is the question who is the enemy what's the. we're here we saw a very diplomatic. saying that we don't have enemies we need to actually negotiate with them and do not. consider them as enemies it's all very good that those so. 29 countries for nato and they all have diverging interests in terms of defense most of them don't spend enough according to nato. regulations on defense budgets so yes there needs to be a new strategy there also needs to be identifying the actual threats we have new

zones of conflicts that are to be identified the current threats of the threat to the moment the threat is not necessarily one country or another the threat is a much more global desir for. nato acknowledged china was posing new opportunities but also new challenges with its rise and of course the situation was russia at the moment poses a threat when it comes to dealing with. actions by the way will probably be able to say more about this than me and i am back on just outlines the fact that we need a new strategy for nato and that's what i was saying earlier by just saying that the organisation is brain dead is not going to bring things much further like the man who is the enemy what is if the enemy is not the country what is if the any music climate change or globalization on global power to not mention to think in

the ring in london as far as i can tell climate change what is if the enemy cannot be find it it's what if the enemy is operating on the level of a must media or fake news of manipulation of the public opinion because the not this i was rather a whole like russian who. has the not the right answers that is dangerous coming from not from the country not on the on the convenient of a myth bence or with it thanks it thanks old style isn't convenient deepens let's go back back in history a little bit i mean we had the bipolar world the cold war there was a clear cut enemy in the soviet union and it's gone after the wall came down there was a term coined in the cold war called flexible response it was how to react in kind of war 2 words soviet union troops if you have a flexible response you need a flexible response today about new threats there is no single biggest threats but

that doesn't mean that they are not multi polar threats. as for example russia or china or cyber war or terrorism over threats from boise and that nato members don't necessarily all share the same values as they did for so long they don't necessarily share the values that a map sounds in the preamble of the nato treaty. yes but do they have to share the same values to confront the variety of threats maybe not maybe they can confront a variety of threats with different kind of balance i mean clear cut example is. the president of turkey who clearly has a different kind of values than the rest of nato before we continue i'd like to come back she wants to know mr atta and let's just go to a clip that we have of the way the. president. addressed the meeting in london the agenda the very robust agenda he brought within

that some people have dismissed as blackmail let's listen. our friends at nato do not recognize as a terrorist organization those against whom we are carrying out our fight against terrorism then excuse me we will oppose any step that nato seeks to undertake. so we were talking about shared values or values this and don't necessarily share your newspaper the target people writes to regularly behaves as if it couldn't care less about the shared values and interests that underpin the alliance yes but it still might be valued member of the alliance. even though we have the disputes about the $400.00 defense system. the russian defense system we have disputes about syria about about the cooperation with russia in that region

about supporting islamists in syria and so on and so on and not to not to talk about everything that is inside so churchy which gives reason for for a lot of wars so still is a very valuable member of the alliance in the south like every member of the of nato is valuable because they all have an equal say in the matter so there's no country that is left on the other and i think that's one of the things that make it to make nato valuable. people are worried about turkey because it's now and some are saying turkey should not be a member of nato. yes but it is and. i think you have to be one of the yes it is fair and this this meeting in london i think there was much to say about conflicts of interests and come face of post not had to present it to clashing with so in my own micro in talking with her son justin

trudeau from canada and that gave a bit of the fading of a schoolyard and i'm not sure the world at the moment deserves that kind of latitude from us to be out there like to go back to the point you mentioned about the past of not there because the whole soap of the problems or the whole thing dangerous source of danger a shift that completely in the recent debates the case and there's not a historically became the member of the not the danger was completely different than no no it's the middle east as a whole sport of the world for ticks and so shortly place would be completely different role in the process and this is what we are talking about the whole world is changing so greek and so far so fast that the need to react or not the new story arc very brief the base of the christian is not able to react the critique you would interest us like i could remind you about the there is the 303030 initiative i think is very valuable and might be exploited the bit means we have nato has to

be able to study days to have 30 patel humans 30 ships. in every corner on the earth so if they if they work on this initiatives i think it's very well valuable and it might come from a lot of threats they're facing. but i think we're also facing new threats for example the cyberspace nature has to become performant in fighting that there's also new place of conflict that is actual space and ito so hostile develop tools in dr god i think the threats have diversified and if nato wants to survive it actually has to find a way to address those and luck to you frank. make state top to facebook groups from centers where a promise from prison throw fabric and through bush ideas via facebook to the american public and keep fighting through this facebook groups american public one part of the american public getting it against another part of american public but

can ship some tanks against this and so vigorously. but still just for a 2nd because i would like to end it once here was a man who has to say about one point we haven't touched so far there's a lot of tension in nato ranks about money a significant number of nato members according to donald trump a free loading including germany. we're looking for work we're 3 percent of the largest g.d.p. ever. gave us we have right now and nobody's come to us and other people what they want to preserve some people very less than one percent of a very small few not here. they get it there we are. not here. when you are with your french background do you understand germany's reluctance to spend big time well it has a history as well because of old wood to germany was reluctant for a long time to a low military spending at all and decide of history is very. very

present in every decision made in regarding to results of what you are saying is that there are french troops on the ground fighting all kind of fighting that was my 2nd saw the documentary is would be a good start was my 2nd that was my 2nd point actually so germany spends way less on friends in its defense and france is actually paying the price of blogs in africa in order to protect the rest of europe that is a fact and indeed problem i think it is also problematic in the partnership between france and germany because they agreed no later than you know cobra they did agree to spend less on a coordinating coordinated defense system but germany to german parliament is. waiting spending too much time discussing the budget rather than putting the money where it should be and that actually hinders the french german relationship as well

so i mean what's your response to this streak of pacifism that still is very central in politics military politics and life if i talk to morris in france is think visits because we're almost going to if i tell them what german media are writing covering about the condition of the boom the surveyor. no one believes me there is always a very dangerous book bundesrat troops to set all these evils of the field without for without weaponry or is a little service yes so little submarines basically nothing on a man's role for a people living in russia for a country like germany having this kind of army. i can hear you trying to get a. yes i say germany should spend more they should spend more of necessary on hard work even though i think the army has to be modernized very very much but they should spend more on cyber defense this is one of the huge topics you have nato countries have to face as a security threat and to develop and build up the need the needed skills for cyber

defense is something that is really really important and i think you might even get a majority of germans committed to that not necessary to defense spending the traditional way but the one more point $22.00 president u.s. president trumps claim i mean you still have to see the united states spends like 5 trillion dollars from $911.00 to now on the war on terror all over the world so the huge defense budget of the united states goes to many places in the world not just to european defense is that iran pouring rich no one in austria understands rob germany of its high speed internet connection if you talk about cyber attacks from cyber defense no one can imagine the country are going to carry her for such a birth quality of internet. but there will always be a discrepancy between the american army and the german or european army in the

making for example because we simply didn't don't share the same vision of. the well. i think you say it i mean germany because of history it will never be a country which you want to make fun which you want to in t.v. . with but at least it should have a functioning army and a fog that regularly america cannot fly somewhere because if the plane would take off something about that that goes on to show it's a crying shame. yes it is a crying shame and it is not just michael it's the president as well it's the foreign minister and many other because just plain. and i think this is for a country like i agree with quite a lot of this i think not just a lot about this but the rest of the world is doing that as well as pressure to the russians and the chinese who are developing. an ira. but if we come to the

chinese i mean china was mentioned at. a little time. and so they overlap in new threats in cyber war with. traditional threats and it's called who will buy the front that makes up the 5 g. system in the. region with the most successful military alliance in. the fact. thank you very very much for joining us here on to the point bring to. 17000 the question we did interesting.

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is d.w. news live from berlin france is paralyzed by one of the biggest nationwide strikes in decades public sector workers closed down transport hospitals and schools and a protest against proposed pension reforms strike isn't over yet so what will happen today we'll get the latest from paps also coming up germany's chancellor merkel visits the site of one of history's most shocking crime it's the 1st time she's been to the auschwitz death camp where the nazis murder.