>> i'm bill hemmer in for chris wallace. house democrats hit a turning point in their investigations of president trump. ♪ bill: first, threats to the use subpoena mauer and move to -- power and move to is seize the president's tax returns. as the president himself shifts the focus back to his signature campaign issue, border ask security.

>> by the way, he ghei me permission to touch him. >> what's the hold-up? putting everything together, man. bill: all right now on "fox news sunday. hello again from fox news in washington. good to have you with us today on this sunday morning. there is a new political front in the fight over bob mueller's russia investigation. house democrats are demanding access to the entire 400-page report. also this week investigators are seeking mr. trump's tax returns as the president pushes his policies over immigration. in a moment we'll speak exly

white house d exclusively with white house chief of staff mick mulvaney. a day after the house judiciary committee voted to authorize subpoenas for mueller's full report, chairman jerry nadler called for transparency citing reports that some on mueller's team were concerned barr's principal conclusions went too easy on trump. >> that gives us additional reason to say release the report. bill: the president's attorney, rudy giuliani, blasted those reports. >> they're a bunch of sneaky, unethical leakers. they hate the president of the united states. bill: the justice department pushed back against criticism saying every page of the confidential report was marked may contain material protected under a federal law that protects confidential grand jury information. and, therefore, could not be publicly released. house speaker pelosi warning democrats will not give up. >> show us the mueller report, show us the tax returns.

bill: house ways and means committee chair richard neal sent a formal request to the irs citing a rarely-used law giving the agency until wednesday to hand over six years of the president's tax returns. >> it's unlikely we're going to receive a response immediately, but we've prepared for the long game here. >> they'll speak to my lawyers, they'll speak to the attorney general. bill:ment granting the request would set a dangerous precedent, and and the president visited the border with mexico after backing off a threat to shut it down. and a day after unexpectedly pulling the nomination of ron visit yell la to lead i.c.e. where he had been the acting director. >> ron's a good man, but we're going in a tougher direction. bill: now the president says he can stop the flow of illegal immigrants with tariffs on mexican cars. >> i don't think we'll ever have to close the border because the penalty of tariffs to op on cars coming into the united states

from mexico at 25% will be massive. bill: joining me now here in washington, white house chief of staff mick mulvaney. welcome back to "fox news sunday." >> good morning, bill. it's good to see you. bill: i want to go into the issues in a moment, but broadly speaking, do you believe the die incomic between the trump -- dynamic between the trump white house and democrats went into a new phase this past week? >> i think it went into a new phase right after the mueller report came out, because the democrats really were caught flat-footed. they really did believe that mueller would find collusion and obstruction. in fact, they had invested heavily in that, and to find out there's no obstruction, no collusion, i really think they were never expecting -- bill: now you're on the tax issue too. >> and after that we'll be on something else. they are, face it, the democrat party's infested with what we call trump derangement syndrome.

they still cannot accept the fact that he won the election, and they'll do anything they can to prevent that from happening again. go back to the president's state of the union speech. he said, look, there's a choice here. you can choose to work with me or fight against me, and it's clear the democrats have no interest in working with this president on the border, on health care, on anything. they want to fight with the president. bill: let's go to the issues now, the president gave mexico a one-year warning, he also calls it a crisis. why wait a year? >> keep in mind, i think that word about waiting a year dealt with drugs. we need help right away on the migrant crisis, on illegal immigration, folks coming across the mexican border. we also have another longer term issue with mexico on drugs. i think if you look at his statement the, he said we need help within the next year on drugs. the good nudes there is in the last week there mexico has stepped it up. they're preventing people from

coming in on their own southern border down towards guatemala and honduras, and they're accepting more of the folks who cross into the united states back into mexico. in fact, and i know it's hard to imagine -- but, again, nancy pelosi runs the democrats in congress -- mexico has done more in the last week to help our illegal immigration crisis than nancy pelosi and democrats in the house. bill: the president said this about that on thursday. >> for the last four days, and you actually have covered it to a minor exp tent -- extent, mexico has been capturing people and bringing them back to their countries. bill: that's the argument you're making here. what changed? >> i think they took him seriously. when the president comes out and says, look, we're serious, we will look at closing the border, tariffing your automobiles, they recognize that's not an empty threat from the president of the united states. the situation on the border is a crisis. we have been talking about that now for, i guess, almost three or four months. very few people believed us at

the outset. i think more and more people accepting the fact that it is a real crisis. i think even "the washington post" and "the new york times" acknowledges that for the first time this week. and when he sets out and says, look, mexico, if you don't help us, we will have no choice but to do these things, i think mexico paid attention. bill: he also threatened to cut off aid to foreign countries, is that the same today? >> it absolutely is. dealing with health care and the economy is nice, the president's first respondent is to defend -- responsibility is to defend the safety of and nation. bill: the issue is this, families arrive here with children. they are willing to turn themselves in. the facilities that house them are overloaded, and then they're released into the country. have the smugglers, mick, have they beat us at our own policy? >> they certainly gamed the system. they're not stupid.

keep in mind, these are mexican cartels that can raise hundreds if not tens of hundreds of millions of dollars moving people. it's not just about families. if an unaccompanied child crosses the border, dhs can only hold that child -- this is a child that's already separated from its parents by the choice of the family -- can only ask to send them to hhs, but if hhs doesn't have room, dhs cannot keep them, there's legally nothing that d health care s can do -- dhs can do with the children. bill: but the smugglers know that the weather's going to get warmer. i want to get to a lot of other things here. just to cut through on this issue, what is the plan to get out of this current issue? >> number one, mexico has to continue to do what they're doing by preventing people from coming into mexico and accepting people that we send them. number two, the northern triangle countries have to prevent their own people from leaving, and number three, this is the one we don't get a chance

to talk about enough, congress must act. the laws are what is a acting as this giant magnet, and congress has to change those laws. again, i think for the fist time even democrats are starting to recognize that. bill: on the issue of taxes, the president's lawyer put out a forceful four-page statement this past week. it was almost in unison with what the democrats asked for about wednesday, about midweek. given that statement, if you read through it, were you expecting this? >> you always expect something from the democrats if they don't get what they want. it doesn't surprise anybody. keep in mind, they knew they were not going to get these taxes. they know what the law is, they know one of the fundamental principles of the irs is to protect the confidentiality the of you and me and everybody else who files taxes. they know that. they know the terms under law by which the urs -- irs can give them the documents, but a political hit job is not one of

those reasons -- bill: to be clear, you believe democrats will never see the president's tax returns. >> oh, no, never. nor should they. keep in mind, that's an issue that was already litigated during the election. voters knew that he didn't give them, and they elected him anyway. but they know they're not going to get this. they just want the attention on the issue because they don't want to talk to us -- be. bill: he's argued he's under audit, but even under audit, you could allow -- >> you could always allow people to see it. the democrats are demanding that the irs turn over the documents, and that is not going to happen. and they know it. this is a political stunt by my former colleagues. bill: bill barr, maybe his summary comes out this week or the week following. this past march 29th, i should say, he wrote the following: there are no plans to submit the report to the white house for a privileged review. has that changed? >> we've said from the very beginning that mr. barr will

make these decisions. there are laws in place that govern how this special investigation is conducted. keep in mind got a lot of attention in the press about two weeks ago when all 420-odd members of congress who voted voted to release the mueller report, but it says voted to release the mueller report pursuant to law. that is the same thing the white house has been saying. we want bill barr to follow the law, period, end of story. bill: here's the tweet from the president yesterday, i've not read the mueller report yet. only know the conclusions that on the big one, no collusion. likewise, recommendations made to our great a.g. who found no obstruction. has anyone at the white house made a request to see this report? >> no. mr. barr is going to make those decisions. bill: that change? >> anything could change, but that's the way the law is, and we're interested in following the law. bill: do you want to see it?

>> i wasn't involved with it. i was over at omb i don't really have much interest. i know what it says, no collusion, no obstruction. if we give the democrats all 400 pages unredacted, that's not going to be the end. then they're going to want another 1,000 pages that went into making that. then they're going to want to talk to the witness withs itself. this is a political show by the democrats because they just -- bill: one more point, and then we'll get to health care. >> it's been a busy week. bill: the president, will he change or do you know if he would like to see the report before it goes to congress? >> i think the president's been very consistent. mr. barr's going to make those decisions, and i'm comfortable -- bill: on obamacare, your challenge in the courts last month, was that a mistake? >> absolutely not. what we did last week, i guess last month now, goodness gracious, the time flies. decide not to agree with about 20 republican attorney generals

in the states that said obamacare is unconstitutional. it should not surprise anybody that donald trump decided that, yeah, he thinks all of obamacare is unconstitutional. we had to file a brief to that end. what was actually a surprise to us is that when jeff sessions was the attorney general, he took a different position and said only parts of the law were up constitutional. no -- unconstitutional. we did the exact right thing. again, keep in mind a u.s. district court has already found all of the law to be unconstitutional. we just think that was the right -- bill: you know what mitch mcconnell said this week, he said he's not going to keep up it up in the senate. >> even if they did, the democrats in the house have absolutely no interest in working with us on this. again, shouldn't surprise anybody we're not going to get to this before the 2020 election. that doesn't mean we shouldn't with talking about it, and we will. bill: will we see a plan before 2020? >> we had a great meeting this week, we brought all our health

services in, some to have best folks in the white house, is and we started talking about, number one, what we've already achieved. we don't get nearly enough attention for what we've done with drug prices. truck pricing is -- drug pricing is unmistakably part of health care, and drug prices in this country came down last year for the first time in 50 years. that's because donald trump is president. we spent the time this weekend saying, okay, what have we done, what can we talk about that's a success, what do woe need to work on going forward. we talked about how we're protecting medicare, getting drug prices down, and i do think you'll see a plan fairly shortly. bill: before the 2020 election? >> oh, yeah. we want to run on this. democrats have already admitted that obamacare doesn't work. that's why they're talking about sort of this amorphous medicare for all. they're not talking about how great obamacare is because they know it's broken. bill but as a campaign issue, many democrats are running on medicare for all, and some would a argue let them run on that,

you step out of the way and allow the american people to sort through it. >> we're firm believers you can't beat something with nothing. republicans have better ideas than democrats. we should not be afraid to talk about that. bill: all right, lightning round. >> let's go. bill: herman cain expressed concerns about going forward with the federal reserve. is that nomination still alive? >> yes. bill: dems, 2020, who concerns you? >> right now, none of them. bill: any discussions over the weekend? >> obviously, never came up. we're having fun watching them implode. bill: last question. how did joe biden do this past week? >> you know, i have nod. >>. i think, listen, the voters are going to decide. i laugh a little bit when i look at my democrat friends, it's almost like whoever can apologize the most for the most different things is going to win the democrat nomination. it's almost like they want to

make america apologize again, and it's a by bizarre thing to watch as a republican. bill: mick mulvaney, nice to see you. in a moment, a rising democratic star, congressman ben ray lujan joins us, and the future of his own party. that's next. every year, our analysts visit thousands of companies, in a multitude of countries, where we get to know the people that drive a company's growth and gain new perspectives. that's why we go beyond the numbers.

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voting for your favorite has never been easier. just say "vote for world of dance" into your xfinity v-mo. um jennifer, it's called a voice remote, not a v-mo. yeah, i just think v-mo has a nicer ring to it. so, just say "vote for world of dance" into your xfinity v-mo to choose your xfinity fan favorite to join the world of dance experience on my "it's my party" summer tour. cast your vote by saying "vote for world of dance" into your xfinity x1 voice remote. or as j-lo likes to call it, your v-mo. ♪ ♪ bill: our next guest today helped democrats regain the majority in the house in the 2018 midterms leading to the investigative assault we're now seeing against the president. joining us from santa fe, next, congressman ben ray lujan, the number four democrat of the house, and welcome back to "fox

news sunday." >> the president was suggesting there was an immediate national security crisis, and he sent troops to the border just to distract the american people with the gains we were going to see in the midterms. then we went into a shutdown, and the president took the same deal after 35 days that the he could have taken on day 1 and prevented that government shutdown, and here we go again with the president doubling down with threats to shut down the mexican border which would have devastated the u.s. economy, devastated the u.s. auto

manufacturers, concerns of many other areas including 27,000 workers in mexico as the mueller report was coming out. so again, i think the president continues to use immigration as a distraction as opposed to trying to work together on a bipartisan basis whether it's immigration reform or other important -- bill: okay. you're describing this as a political charade, but let's look at the numbers. in the past month alone, more than 100,000 illegals have been stopped at the border. how is that not a crisis? >> there are a number of people who have been turning themselves into border patrol agents as the law allows in the united states for asylum seekers. and when the department of homeland security is reporting these numbers, i don't believe that they are accurately describing the numbers with the number of people that are turning themselves in versus those that are being apprehended. bill: okay. here's the homeland security secretary for president obama.

this is what jeh johnson said this past week. >> by anyone's definition, by any measure right now we have a crisis at our southern border. according to the commissioner of cbp, there were 4,000 apprehensions in one day alone this past week. ing. bill: there it is again and the word again. is he wrong? >> well, again, i wouldn't say there is a humanitarian crisis at the border, but one that was created by president donald trump with his policy. whether it's his metering nickertives of -- initiatives or other policies put in place by secretary nielsen. separating children from their families at the border is not humane, and we continue to see this administration engage in those policies. all we're saying is, mr. president, we want to work together on immigration reform. just as you committed to do when you invited all the cameras in and said we could find common ground. i certainly hope the president was sincere and we can find a way to work together as democrats and republicans in the house and the senate -- bill: and they would fire back and say congress hasn't done

anything. last question on this. if you look at the current reality, aren't the smugglers beating us at our own game? they're beating our laws, and they're beating our system. >> well, the united states needs to be working, again, with mexico and with the northern triangle countries. i think the president threatening to shut down that southern border, cut off the money from the northern triangle which would only encourage violence in those countries and encourage more people to flee. think about why these moms are fleeing. with that being said now, the united states can continue to work when it comes to strong policies in the united states in the way democrats led the initiative with investments when it came to border security during the shutdown conversation. what democrats did was make investments when it came to our ports of entry and also provided more dollars associated for border officials whether it was customs officials at the southern border or the northern

border and also with the water ports. we should be talking about homeland security in a comprehensive way as it pertains to national security in the united states. bill: unfortunately, we're not going to settle this debate here today, but let me move to the congressional investigations. this past week politico framed it the following way, it wrote the following: in a single day, house democrats demanded president trump's tax returns for six years and prepared to issue a subpoena for the full mueller report from the justice department. the white house would argue that's harassment. is that what you're doing? >> absolutely not. this is not political, as our republican colleagues are making it out to be, including my friend mr. mulvaney, who was speaking before me. there are authorities under section 6103 with the ways and means committee to be able to get their hands and request if president's tax returns in this case. this is an authority that republicans used as recent a z 2014 and an authority that was used at times with president

nixon, president ford as well. so, again, no other president in modern times has had to have their tax returns requested under 610 3w because they've all voluntarily shared them. just as president trump promised as a candidate he would share his tax returns, after he was elected he promised he would share his tax returns with the american people, and he's refused to do so -- bill: if i could, just want to interject here, mick mulvaney says democrats are never going to see them, and you started your answer by saying this is all political -- >> no, no, no i did not -- bill: let me get to the question. >> bill, i said it was not political. let's be clear about that. bill: okay. correction noted then. however -- >> thank you. of. bill: in the request on behalf of democrats this week, they want four years of his tax returns before he was president. why is that relevant? >> again, the president said he would voluntarily share his tax returns, he's refused to do so,

and congress has uses this authority when republicans were in charge back in 2014, it was used under president nixon, president ford, and all we're saying is share your tax returns as you promised, and sure you're following the same rules and laws. again, this is congressional oversight as we're carrying it out. bill: let the record say, you did say not political. i want to make that fair. >> i appreciate that. bill: you must have a legitimate legislative reason. what is that reason, congressman? >> well, the laws are being followed under section 610 3w under the authorities that are bestowed upon the congress, in this case the chairman of the ways and means committee, also the same authorities that the chair of the senate finance committee would have. so i believe that chairman richard neal and his team have put together what i would say is an ironclad request that has been submitted and is going forward. and so, again, we just want to work under the laws that we have, you should the

authorities, in this case section 6103 which give the chairmen of the committee the full authority to ask for these tax returns and for congress to see them. bill: okay. let me go to the barr summary here. maybe we get it this week or maybe in the first few days after that. there was a late friday court decision that came out that ruled grand jury information must remain private. now, if that's the case, democrats want to make that report public. and jerry nadler has said as much this past week. if that court case stands, the democrats just lose that fight? >> look, congress has taken action. not just democrats, bill, but republicans as well. you remember, as mick mull availableny talked about the vote that took place on the house floor, 420-0, democrats and republicans came together to say this report should be made available and revealed to the american people. that's all that we're saying here. so, no, i don't believe that the

court ruling hampers the ability for this report to be made if available not just to congress, but to the american people. and that's something that we've been asking for and, quite honestly, the president even said a few weeks ago that he would make the report available, that he supported that to the american people -- bill: okay, just -- >> i don't know why the president keeps flip-flopping. bill: i want to get to one more topic. is there a risk that democrats overplay the hand that we have watched over the past week, sir? >> well, look, on the tax returns alone over 50% of the american people believe that those, that information should be made available to the country. there's broad support as well for the special counsel's report to be made available to the american people as well. so, again, what we are talking about here is constitutional oversight that the congress has a responsibility to carry out, and that's all that we're doing here. we should work together in a bipartisan basis in the is same

way that republicans did under barack obama. bill: i've got about 30 seconds left, you're going to run for the senate there in new mexico, you helped lead democrats to a majority in 2018. it is also clear that there are fractures within that freshman body in the house. have you stopped to think about what you've created? >> oh, look, i am so encouraged by the work of our new members across america. i worked diligently to lead the effort with nancy pelosi to win back the majority in the u.s. house of representatives where we have policy experts in every area, national security experts down to those that have started successful companies and created jobs across the country. there's a lot of energy and passion, and i think we should unleash that energy as we work to deliver for the american people. and while i announced that i am running for the united states senate, there's a lot of work to do over the next two years including making sure we just

not continue to deliver as house democrats, but we flip the senate in the same way we delivered the house for the american people, and that's something we're working on doing. bill: president obama went public over the weekend, and he suggested that you run the risk of having a circular firing squad when you go against each member. what did you think about that comment. >> well, i didn't hear the president's town hall, but look, i think that as a caucus we have family disagreements. we're a big tent caucus. and so you're going to have some disagreements. but you have them as a family. in the end, our values and principles are the same when we want to talk about how we can deliver for the american people who are still having a hard time. even though the economy's doing better, there still are families across the country, who if they had a $500 emergency, they wouldn't be able to fit that into the budget for the month if. and as we've also heard or from senator bennett out of colorado recently, the concerns for wage

growth in the country has been stagnant. working families are still having a hard time across the country, and that's what democrats are committed to delivering, lowering health care costs, tossing h.r. 1, creating job opportunities across america, and we've already been able to do that, but mitch mcconnell has been standing in the way of progress in the senate, and that's another reason why i am running for the senate. bill: congressman lujan, thank you and flubbing to you. -- good luck to you. in a moment, we'll talk about the renewed battle over congress getting the full mueller report. ♪ ♪ i switched to liberty mutual, because they let me customize my insurance. and as a fitness junkie, i customize everything, like my bike, and my calves. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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then i found aleve pm. the only one to combine a safe sleep aid, plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. i'm back. aleve pm for a better am. >> i'll rely on the attorney genero make decisions, but i will tell you, anything that's given to them will never be good enough. you could give them more documents than they've ever seen, and it would never be good enough. bill: president trump blasting democrats for trying to obtain

special counsel bob mueller's report. charles hurt from the washington finals is here, juan williams, fox news political analyst, marie harf and katie pavlich, editor of townhall.com. good morning to all of you. how was the green room? >> great, always fun. bill: it is my sense that a new dynamic has been created in the relationship between this white house and house democrats. charlie, do you see it that way? >> i think, absolutely. and the sad part of that is the fact that you have a lot of very important issues that are on the table, and i think the reason that president trump won in 2016 and the reason i feel, i think he feels confident about winning re-election is that he's remaining focused on those issues. the people actually care about, viewers watching right now. but here in washington all we're talking about, we're talking about irs records, we're talking about the mueller report, russia, all of these things. they really don't amount to all

that much importance -- bill: if he's right, juan, the issues get petrified and we stick on matters like this. >> well, i think you're exactly right, something has changed. i think in the aftermath of the release of the barr letter and the mueller report transition to justice from the special counsel, the thought was, wow, president trump, he says he's totally exonerated. and and you can see that people who are trump supporters were anticipating, oh, there's going to be a bump in his approval numbers. there hasn't been. or there's going to be a victory lap in which a lot of of the acrimony, the bullying, that would decrease. but, in fact, he's had a very rough week here in washington on just the points you're describing, taxes, health care, immigration -- bill: just to advance the conversation, here's jerry nadler on the mueller matter from this past wednesday. >> the committee is entitled and must see all the material and make judgments as to what can be redacted for the public release

by ourselves. bill: so just to be clear, the committee wants to see everything, and then they will decide what to make public. >> based on the political dynamics of washington, d.c., democrats certainly cannot be trusted with seeing all the underlying material. democrats don't want to see everything because they're interested in transparency, they want to then leak information about certain people in trump's circle who are looked at as part of the mueller investigation but did not have evidence or not indicted as a result of the information. so, no, jerry nadler is not entitled to all the information. they want to use it politically while democrats are fighting in a primary against each other, democrats in washington, d.c. are trying to get as much political ammunition as possible to give to the ultimate nominee. they're doing that through the mueller report. and when it comes to them accusing the white house of not being transparent on the issue of the mueller report, president trump has said he is not going to assert any kind of executive

privilege even though he has the right to do so, and the special counsel is actually working with barr right now on the redactions. they're working together to redact information that the public should not see in order to preserve due process and protecting people's privacy in this cup. bill: speaking of bill barr, marie, a rare public statement from him on thursday. every page of the confidential report, he put in his statement, provided to attorney barr on march 22nd was marked may contain material protected under a federal law that protects confidential grand jury information, therefore, cannot be publicly release released. but the law allows the a.g. broad authority on a lot of these matters. >> that's true, but i i think what we've seen from the other statement barr made after the letter when he came out and said, hey, this wasn't intended to be a summary, it sort of seemed like he was doing clean-up because his four-page letter came out, and the president and his supporters started claiming full exoneration, saying he was

totally cleared on everything including obstruction. so i get the sense that william barr was getting nervous about how it was being used politically. and the more time that goes between that letter and the full mueller report coming out, it will appear political and partisan, even if it's not. even if william barr is crossing every t and dotting every i, i know shar eye's --ly's laughing here, but if shoe were on the other foot and it was a democratic attorney general summarizing in four pages a 4006 page report, you would not accept that, and we need to see the full mueller report not for political reasons, but because as an american, i actually want to see what happened. call me crazy. >> i'm not accepting anything. the full report is going to come out. >> when? >> it's going to come out. the reason the whole system, the whole process seems so politicized is for two years democrats made up this complete lie about collusion, and you had people like adam schiff running around saying, oh, i have secret

evidence that shows -- and none of it happened. and, obviously -- >> well, we don't know. we haven't seen it. >> okay. maybe william barr's completely lying, and he made everything up, but i'm kind of thinking that's doubtful. at the end of the day, all that stuff is going to come out. the courts are going to determine p what parts of the grand jury stuff can come out, what can't, all these votes are all political posturing, and that's -- bill: trey gowdy told me we've only seen 50 president of what russia did in -- i think that's the point. may if i, quickly, that russia interfered in the election -- [inaudible conversations] willwell we need to find out what department of homeland security -- i want to talk about these taxes, okay? the president's lawyer came out with a forceful letter friday afternoon reading, in part, the following: it would be a gross abuse of power for the majority party to attack, harass and intimidate their political

opponents. the enshoing fit for -- ensuing tit for tat will do lasting damage. is, katie, where does this end? >> well, look, when you ask people if president should release his tax returns, they will say yes. when it comes to voting, it's another question. president trump was elected in 2016 without releasing his tack returns. bernie sanders is now is saying he's not sure when he will release his tax return. his wife has had an fbi investigation for bank fraud, maybe why he doesn't want to release his tax returns. the bottom line is should he? sure. would it be more taps parent if he did in absolutely. but whether democrats are asking for tax returns in good faith is the bigger question -- bill: well, the founding fathers -- >> they're asking them because they want to use it as a political weapon -- >> i think you're maligning people who are, in fact, pursuing the founding fathers' -- >> i'm not maligning anyone, i said he should release them. >> how about democrats are

fulfilling their constitutional job which is to hold the executive accountable, the emoluments clause put in place by the founding fathers specifically spoke to the idea you don't want foreign actors controlling or having leverage over -- >> you're making an accusation that he's been influenced -- >> i didn't make the accusation, i i just said why shouldn't we know? bill: mick mulvaney told the show today democrats will never see the tax returns. >> i don't think he's going to release them. but the point of congress is to oversee the irs. it doesn't have a right to oversight -- >> of the president? >> not a political agenda going after the president. the only reason they have a right to do this, according to this obscure law, is oversight of the irs. this is not -- bill: democrats would argue, i just want to play a quick clip

from nancy pelosi this past week. listen to her words here. >> it's a question of, to us, it is inevitable. to them, it is inconceivable. we've shortened the distance between inevitable and inconceivable. bill: you listen to her words, and they'll make the case about the mueller matter and the taxes on both issues. last comment on that. >> in 2018 voters said we want more transparency, is and that's why they gave democrats control of the house. look, as to katie's point, voters may not care, there are some things that are right to do even if voter don't care, and we can't lose sight of that in washington. bill: got to take a break. when we come back, joe biden tries to put his controversy behind him. are the accusations disqualifying? we'll talk about that. messy situations. and put irritation in its place. and if i can get comfortable keeping this tookus safe and protected...

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>> sometimes i think president trump is a tragedy in two acts. we better wake up. this country can't afford more years of a president looking to settle personal scores. >> i don't see him as a threat. i think he's only a threat to himself. bill belle a preview of the attacks to come between president trump and joe biden should the former vice president decide to announce a run in to 20 to 20. back with the panel now. nice to see you on a sunday. that comment from joe biden was on a friday. >> i'm not sorry for anything that i have ever done. i've never been disrespectful intentionally to a man or a woman. bill: marie, you start. how did he do? >> i think he handled this pretty well, because it was a tough situation when the story started coming out and people were frying to fit them --

trying to fit them in a me too context. quite frankly, i think he knew some of this would be coming. he knows there are other people particularly in the democratic party who think he's past his prime. he had to be prepared for this. but the bottom line, bill, is when you look at democratic voters or voters in general, there's still a lot of support for joe biden in the polls. democrats know that. there's still a lot of support for the obama/biden eight years that he is going to run. that's going to a key platform. i was part of this very successful eight years. so, look, i think he did the right thing by saying everyone should have their personal space respected, and i have learned that maybe some of my behavior isn't appropriate anymore. but there is no one, i think, who's ever worked with joe biden who don't think he's empathetic and don't think he is a decent perp. and that came through -- bill: there seemed to be, katie, this drip, drip, drip. >> and he admitted he thinks more women will probably come

out saying that i've met, you know, thousands of people and taken thousands of photos. but he accidentally or maybe purposefully admitted he was going to run for president. we have been waiting for him to announce. he was asked if this would change the way he campaigns. so he'sing con full-terming he's getting into the race. i -- confirming. these accusations came out, he did the video, which was fine. but by joking about it during his first public appearance in front of the crowd that he was giving, he kind of degraded the sincerity of not the apology, but of the explanation of invading people's space. and more orr, it was a huge distraction to what he was actually saying. if you listen to the speech joe biden gave, he talked about blue collar workers, making more money for the -- bill: so you're suggesting -- >> that he's going to be completing with donald trump for places like ohio, michigan and wisconsin, and all the headlines were about his joke about being

able to hug people -- bill: you're suggesting he minimized the allegations -- >> he did that -- [inaudible conversations] he also distracted -- bill: be it from me to get in between the ladies, but i've got something for the gentlemen. "the wall street journal" editorial page this past week, mr. biden hasn't even announced, yet he's already being hazed for his past as an unsufficiently woe pale male. if he can't win by running as the white guy he is, he ought to retire with his political dignity intact. charlie? >> yeah. that's sort of hard to top that. but, you know, i also have a hard time feeling sorry for biden because this is a democratic party he created. if he doesn't want to have his democratic party holding up crazy standards and having crazy scandals over what is basically sniffing people's hair and -- he's a space invader, which is -- i don't like that.

i find it very unpleasant. but it's not like, you know, trying to liken this to some sort of sexual assault is insane. but it's his party, and this is what he's created. which goes to the very heart of the reason why i think he is vulnerable in a general election. he's been here for 45 years. he's been part of the washington problem for decades. and whether you love trump or you hate him, the one thing that i think was most appealing for people about trump was the fact that he's just not from here, and he's going to do everything very differently. biden will be going back to the old. bill: juan, can you top the insufficiently pale male? before you to do -- [laughter] this might have been the tweet of the month, i think. i think there's a new category for that when this went out from the president's tweet. >> i hug people. i grab men and move them by the shoulders and say you can do this. and whether they're women, men, young, old, it's the way i've

always been. bill: i leave it to you. >> i think joe biden responded to that by saying, oh, mr. president, i see you're being so presidential. and i think that's in part a response to what charlie was saying. yes, joe biden's been part of washington, but i think there are lots of people -- not only democrats, but independents, who want somebody who will be steady, not juvenile, not bullying, not up to tricks constantly and creating enemies, demonizing people. and so i think the there's a real appetite for normal at this moment in washington. bill: we shall see if you get that -- [laughter] get a break here this if a moment would-be democratic presidential hopefuls undauted by joe biden now getting in the race. the numbers are high, they're testing the waters. we'll discuss who is still making moves next. ♪ ♪ car insurance, so you only pay for what you need.

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: . : : that's tim ryan announcing he's running for president. he's joining one of the largest primary fields we have ever seen. back now with the panel. it's nice to see you. it's like triple dose here. tim ryan is making the case he could appeal to these trump voters in with johnson,

indiana, ohio. we will see if that's the case. in 2016, here are the republican candidates. we had 17. look at the names, look at the paces. so far in 2019 on the democratic side, we had 17. look the names and look at the faces on the screen. it's without howard schultz, to the panel, who do you believe based on that screen so far, who may not be on that screen, who has the staying power? >> i think joe biden has the staying power. i think bernie sanders has staying power because he has the energy of the left on his side and i think pete because he's an outsider and he has a different message and he is authentic. other candidates are trying much too hard to try to impress voters who they think need to vote for them.

>> i completely agree with katie. i think it's those three names. on my list i would put people who were survived through iowa and new hampshire and i would add beddoe. even though he doesn't have specific policies, he has that political magic you can't teach. he has star power, he's getting huge crowds and raising money. i think kamala harris, of that crew, she's raising the most money, she occupies -- >> your list is very long here. >> i gave you five. >> five at the moment. >> but look at that, we become a candidate should look like america, but as my five, i think they will be the top contenders. four of those are white men which is interesting. >> i think what's interesting to me at this point, looking at both lists you've put up is money because they used to be that money was definitive but

then after that trump wasn't the top and obviously he's our president. bernie sanders is doing very well with donors. joe biden is struggling but he will do well. beto is doing well, but i don't think it will do fine. i think they are searching. >> clearly, if you take people like tim ryan and joe biden or mayor pete, that's probably the smart route for democrats to take in terms of challenging president trump in taking back the voters he took from the democratic, the traditional democratic folks. the problem is the primary is focused on all these crazy issues like supporting open borders, the green new deal, were talking about reparations, this is insane stuff. it's not going to play well. >> i'll tell you what democrats are talking about, they're talking about

healthcare and demonizing immigrants unfairly and a spike in hate crime, anti- somatic action in this country under this president. no one is talking about a green new deal. >> were talking about how to give people healthcare. for most democratic voters, this is my hope, it's not medicare for all or the green new deal, it's who can beat donald trump. that has to be the focus. that's why the people i put in the top category. [inaudible] >> i've gotta leave it there. thank you. we will see you all very soon. great panel today. thank you. we will see you all next sunday. have a great weekend and a great week. chris wallace is back here sunday of next week. i will see you 9:00 o'clock back in new york city. we leave you now with some of the iconic cherry blossom trees that reached their peak bloom this week and it was stunning in our nations capital.

enjoy your sunday. bye-bye read