. . . chris: i'm chris wallace. president trump pushes for the nation's students to return to the classroom. even as the coronavirus spikes. ♪ >> we have to get our schools open and stop this political nonsense. chris: parents, students an teachers debate the risk of prolonged virtual learning versus the risk from the virus itself while the trump administration threatens to cut funding for schools that stay closed. >> why should they receive funds for something they're not going to do? chris: we'll ask education secretary betsy devos about the challenging of starting the new school year in the midst of a pandemic. states dial back on reopening as coronavirus cases hit news

highs. we'll ask dr. tom inglesby director for the center of health security what's driving the latest surge. and president trump commutes the sentence of long-time ally roger stones days before he was set to go to prison. we'll ask our sunday panel about the president's latest intervention in the criminal justice systemming all right now, on fox news sunday. ♪ chris: and hello again from fox news in washington. in the face of falling poll numbers and rising coronavirus cases, president trump is doubling down on his push to reopen the country and that means increased pressure on schools to bring students back for in-person learning this fall. in a moment, we'll speak with education secretary betsy devos about the challenges ahead. but first, let's bring in mark

meredith at the white house with the latest on a move by the president to save a political ally from prison. mark. >> reporter: chris, on friday, president trump commuted the prison sentence of his long-time friend and political consultant roger stone. the move has democrats and a growing number of republicans on capitol hill outraged. >> roger stone was not treated properly. >> reporter: roger stone was supposed to go to prison this week after being convicted of witness tampering and lying to congress. >> we love you, roger. >> reporter: instead, he'll remain a free man after president trump commuted his 40 month sentence. >> he thought i had been treated unfairly. >> reporter: democrats say the commutation constitutes abuse of power. >> there are two standards of just is the in the country, one for the criminal pals of of the president and one for everyone else. >> reporter: mitt romney tweeted unpress denned, historic -- unprecedented, historic corruption. the president seemed unphased by

the criticism during a visit to walter reed medical center last night. cameras captured the president wearing a blue face mask, stamped with presidential seal. this as the white house continues to push for america's schools to reopen this fall. >> we're very much going to put pressure on governors and every else to open the schools. >> reporter: some fear reopening within weeks without a vaccine ready to expose more students, parents and staff to coronavirus. the president's campaign scrubbed a rally in ne new hampshire last night claiming bad weather, not the virus, forced the postponement. the weather was fine yesterday. it's unclear when that rally may be rescheduled. chris. chris: we'll have more on the roger stone case later in the program. mark meredith reporting from the white house. mark, thanks. joining us now, secretary of education, betsy devos. secretary, you say that there should be exceptions in hot spots around the country but

that the rule, the general rule should be that schools should be fully operational and fully open of in the fall. what does that mean when you talk about fully open? does that mean in-person, five days a week? >> well, chris, we know that for kids getting back to school and getting back to learning, getting back with their peers, with their teachers, is really imperative and fully on of -- of operational and fully functioning means kids can be back there. for families that need their kids in school in person five days a week that has to be an option. the point needs to be how do kids get back to learning in the fall full-time and how do we ensure they get a full year plus of learning. hthey've fallen behind this spring. we need to make sure they're back in a classroom situation wherever possible and whenever

possible and fully functioning, fully learning. chris: since president trump and you started calling -- you may really increase the push this week for full school reopenings, there has been sharp pushback from governors and mayors and teachers unions. here is some of that. >> if anybody sat here today and told you that they could reopen the school in september, that would be reckless and negligent of that person. >> i double dog dare donald trump to sit in a class of 39 sixth graders and breathe that air without any preparation for how we're going to bring our kids back safely. chris: reckless and negligent. secretary, how do you respond? >> well, chris, there's nothing in the data that suggests that kids being in school is in any

way dangerous. we know that children contract and have the virus at far lower incidents than any other part of the population and we know other countries around the world have reopened their schools and have done so successfully and safely and kids there are going back to school every day and so that has got to be the posture here. parents are expecting that this fall their kids are going to have a full-time experience with their learning and we need to follow through on that promise. chris: all right. let's pick up on this whole issue. i want to get to the other countries and what the experience is there in a moment. but this week the president called out the cdc guidance that has been issued about reopening schools. he put this tweet, i want to put the tweet up. he called the guidance by the cdc on reopen offing schools, quote, very tough and expensive and very impractical.

so let's go through specifically what the cdc is calling for. they say wash your hands regularly, stay six feet apart and wear a mask. is that tough, expensive and impractical, secretary? >> well, these seem to be measures that we're taking pretty much everywhere else in life and they're common sense approaches and as dr. redfield has noted, the guidelines are also that, guidelines. they're meant to be helpful in a posture of how you actually do things and how you actually move ahead and ensure that kids can get back into school. and as he's also noted, the cdc never recommended that schools close in the first place. and so i think we need to be oriented around how do we do this, not if we do. it's not a matter of if. it's a matter of how we reopen schools and how kids get back to learning full-time.

chris: but secretary, i want to get to this issue of -- because the president of the united states said that the cdc guidelines were tough, expensive and impractical. i want to look at some of the other cdc guidance. they talked about putting up shielding in places where six feet of distance is not possible. plastic shielding. they talked about staggered drop-offs and pick-ups. is that tough, expensive and impractical? >> well, again, all of the guidelines are meant to be helpful, to help local education leaders decide and work on how they are going to accomplish what they need to do and that is getting kids back in school based on their situation and their reality. we know that schools across the country look very different and that there's not going to be a one size fits all approach to everything. but the key is, there has to be

a posture of doing something, of action, of getting things going, putting a plan together for your specific school, for your specific district, for your classroom, that ensures that kids are going to start learning again this fall. chris: well, i think we all agree that kids need to learn and that to the degree possible we want to get them back to school. the question is, how do you balance safety and learning? you have cited the american academy of pediatrics and a report that they issued which said indeed that students do need to get back to school and there are real costs, costs to the students in terms of not getting back to school. but that association issued a new report on friday along with the teachers unions. i want to put up what they said there. they said science should drive decision making on safely reopening schools. public health agencies must make recommendations based on evidence, not politics. they say leave it to the health

experts to say when schools should reopen in various localities. >> well, i'm glad you cited the american academy of pediatrics. because they also have noted that this whole question of school and going back to school in the fall is one of health for students. and there are multiple measures for student health. we know -- as secretary azar said, this is a question of health versus health, not health versus something else. we know that kids are suffering mentally with many mental issues. we know that kids are suffering with social, emotional learning issues. we know that kids from vulnerable populations and homes have been suffering by not being in school and by not continuing their learning. all of those are measures that have to be weighed along with the risk of a virus. and we know, again, from the data, that kids don't get this virus the same way adults do.

and so, again, the posture needs to be around going back to school. chris: i've been told the science isn't so clear, how they spread the virus, conceivably to parents, grandparents, to teachers, to custodians in the school. do we know that? >> well, that is something that is obviously continuing to be looked at and studied and there is, again, a lot of data that suggests that kids are not spreaders. but the point is, that kids have got to get back to school and we can do that safely and every community, every school can look at what their actual physical circumstances are and figure out of ways to do this safely. we're doing it in many other areas of life. if we can get back in other areas of life, we certainly need to get back to school. kids cannot afford to not continue learning. our nation can't afford to have kids not learning. and preparing for their future,

because it's our future. chris: we found the cost of getting back to regular life. in a lot of states, particularly in the south and the southwest, we reopened bars, reopened restaurants, we reopened gyms and we've seen a spike in cases that is almost double what we had in the height of the spring. so it's not like reopening is an answer. in many cases it creates new problems. you mentioned earlier about other countries. you and the president have both said, well, other countries are reopening so let's look at the statistics there, if we can. let's put them up on the screen. germany, reported 378 new cases on friday. denmark, 30. norway, 11. meanwhile, the u.s. reported 68,226 new cases on friday. question. is it really fair, is it reasonable to compare the situation in countries that have

20 new cases in a day with a country that has 68,000 new cases in a day? >> well, we're talking about schools. and other countries experiences with reopen offing schools and it's been shown to be very successful. kids have gone back to learning environments and have done so safely and healthily. chris: schools happen in an environment. if there's 30 of cases in a state, in a country, that's very different than a place where it's out of control and there's 70,000 new cases in a day. >> and we're not talking about places where it's, quote, out of control. we're talking about the rule, not the exception. and where there are hot spots in the future in the fall, of course that has to be dealt with differently. and i would reference miami-dade county which has a very robust continuity of learning plan that was put into place in anticipation of hurricanes but it's very appropriate here. the state of florida has said in

the fall, parents and students need to be able to count on a five day a week, in-person school situation. and where those parents or where that situation suggests something else for a shorter period operiod of time, there he plans for learning continue 100% of the time, full-time, in a different setting. so miami-dade has multiple plat forms for students to continue to learn. chris: i have one last question, secretary devos. both you and the president have threatened to cut off funding for school systems that don't open fully in the fall. here you are. >> if schools aren't going to reopen of again, that's breaking that promise. so why should they receive funds for something they're not going to do? chris: and president trump tweeted friday, schools must be opened in the fall. if not opened, why would the

federal government give funding? it won't. two quick questions and i need a quick answer if i can from you, secretary devos. one, under what authority are you and the president going to unilaterally cut off funding, funding that's been approved from congress and most of the money of goes to disadvantaged students or students with disabilities and secondly, isn't cutting off funding exactly the wrong answer? don't you want to spend more money to make schools safer, whether it's with plastic shields or health checks, various other systems? it doesn'doesn't it make more so increase funding for schools that are unsafe rather than cut off funding. >> american investment in education is a promise to students and their families. if schools are not going to reopen and not fulfill the promise, they shouldn't get the funds. given it to the families to decide to go to the school that

is going to meet the promise. it's a promise to the american people. chris: i know you support vouchers. that's a reasonable argument. you can't do that unilaterally. you have to do that through congress. >> well, we're looking at all the option ofs. because it's a promise to the american people, to students and their families. and we want to make sure that promise is followed through on. chris: secretary devos, thank you. thanks for your time. please come back. this is an important subject. a lot of parents care about it. up next, the new debate over whether to reimpose coronavirus restrictions as the u.s. hits another single day record for new cases. we'll talk with the top public health expert, that's next. looks like they picked the wrong getaway driver. they're going to be paying for this for a long time. they will, but with accident forgiveness allstate won't raise your rates just because of an accident, even if it's your fault. cut! sonny. was that good? line! the desert never lies.

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chris: this week, the country shattered the record for an increase in coronavirus cases, surging to more than 68,000 new infections in a single day. and we are now seeing more hospitalizations and deaths from cases diagnosed weeks ago. joining us once again from baltimore, dr. tom ingles by, director for the center of health security. what do you think of the president's push this week to reopen schools fully and also his complaint that the cdc guidelines are too tough, too expensive, and too impractical? >> well, i think the first thing to say is that probably all americans share the goal of opening schools safely as soon as they can be. so i don't think that's even a matter of debate in the country. i do think that there are going to be many challenges to opening

schools safely and just kind of asserting that schools now must open safely doesn't make it so. it's going to be pretty difficult for many schools, states around the country have been preparing for this so it's not like nothing has been going on to that effect but there are still some uncertainties about transmission in schools. as you said earlier, it's true that many schools have been opened successfully in different parts of the world but in those places, most of those places there was much less transmission than is going on now. so i think we should move ahead with plans. chris: let me just ask it. because there have been outbreaks in some summer camps around the country this summer. let me go back to the question that i asked secretary devos. where's the science here? what do we know about the risk of kids getting the illness and what do we know about the risk of kids spreading the illness? >> so we do know that kids are

at much lower risk of serious infection than adults but not zero. there have been deaths in the united states of children including a tragically a death yesterday in south carolina of 5-year-old. so there are serious outcomes in children but far, far less than adults. what less clear is how efficiently kids will spread the virus in school, both to each other and to teachers, adults and parents. in some places in the world, it seems like that has been relatively uncommon. but there are examples such as in israel in the last couple months, there was a large outbreak in schools when they reopened. and so i think there still is uncertainty that we're going to have to live with. we probably won't know all the answers when we start in the fall but we'll have to watch carefully and react to what we find. chris: what do you think of the president and secretary devos' threat of to cut school funding for schools that -- school

systems that don't reopen fully? >> yeah, no, i think issuing an ultimatum for schools opening is the wrong approach. i think guiding schools and helping schools with financial support and encouraging schools to follow cdc guidance and state health department guidance is the right way to go. i think our incentives are all aligned in the sense that everyone really does want schools to open safely. but mandating it under a very tight timeline such as what happened in florida this week, where they're required to open schools five days a week in 30 days before the state has really even had a chance to review schools' plans seems really like the wrong approach to me. chris: let's step back from schools and look at this whole resurgence of the virus in new parts of the country, especially along the sunbelt. i want to put up a graph of the wave of cases.

no, at the height of the pandemic this spring, we recorded -- this was at the height -- 36,000 new cases in a single day. on friday, we saw 68,000 new cases in a single day. and i want you to take a look at this chart and the yellow line, you can see as we were all patting ourselves on the back, we bent the curve of new cases in mid-april and after going down from the peak, the new case increase started to plateau. but since mid-june, so really for a month now we have seen that huge spike on the left part of the screen. doctor, how serious is this surge in new cases and how do you explain it? >> it's really serious. i think the country is not in a good place with respect to covid right now. i think it's -- of course there are places in the country where there are states doing well but as you said, across the south

and in california and in a variety of other of states we're having sharp increases in cases, sharp increases in hospitalizations and ventilator use and now increases in deaths. so i think a number of explanations and probably depends on the particular location but in general i think we don't have unity of message. we've been getting conflicting messages about mask use at the white house level and from state governors. we've had insufficient attention to indoor large gatherings and too many people are meeting for social gatherings in large numbers. we've got to get back to the basics. wearing face coverings, six feet apart, telecommuting, avoiding large gatherings and really having a strong central message. in places where they're having serious hot spots i think we should give consideration to stepping back from reopen offing, moving back -- from reopening, moving back a phase. doesn't need to look like it did in march or april.

i think we should have people going to work but the idea that we can normalize large social gatherings again, that's just not right and we're going to have to change course or we're going to continue to see these rises. chris: let me talk about another aspect of this surge and that is what's happening with not new cases but deaths and i want to put up the same chart but with a focus on a different line. again, look at the yellow line here. that's not the new cases. that's the number of deaths. you can see that spiked in mid-april, has come down sharply, although there has been an increase in deaths in the last week. more than 800 the last few days. how much comfort should we take, doctor, in the decrease in deaths against this huge increase in cases? >> i don't think we should take any comfort in that number. it's wonderful that the number of deaths went down to in the 200s for a time but we're now

back to 800 to 900 deaths a day in the united states. if you compare that to the numbers in europe, for example germany, had six deaths yesterday. france had deaths in the teens in the last couple of days. and there are parts of the world where there are no deaths. vietnam has had no deaths from coronavirus since the beginning. thailand has had no deaths in six weeks. new zealand has had very, very little mortality from this. so it is not -- we should not accept as normal the 800 or 9000 deaths that we have in this country. we can do better. we can make this disease much less serious in this country. chris: finally, president trump wore a mask in public for the first time yesterday during a visit to walter reed medical center. you talked earlier about the mixed messages coming from washington, the white house, various levels of government. do you think it would have made

a difference from president trump and vice president pence had started wearing masks months ago and what do you think of this debate, the argument that wearing a mask is a matter of personal freedom? >> i do think it would have been better to have started wearing masks to demonstrate wearing masks at the highest levels of government, a long time ago, when cdc came out with the original guidance. but at this point i think the most important thing is to look forward and to think about what will make the most difference and i think that having the president, the vice president and governors wearing masks when they're out in public is the right thing to do. i don't think we should think about this as a personal choice. we don't think it's a personal choice to drive through a neighborhood at 80 miles an hour. we agree to slow down because we want to protect kids. the same thing is true here. we want to wear masks to protect our neighbors. chris: doctor, thank you. thanks once again for joining us. always good to talk with you.

up next, president trump commutes roger stone's prison sentence, drawing blowback from democrats and even a few republicans. we'll bring in our sunday group to discuss that, plus the supreme court ruling on whether investigators can see the president's tax records. ever since i got this little guy, i felt like i was just constantly cleaning up his hair. then, i got my paws on the swiffer sweeper. it's a game changer. these heavy duty dry cloths pick up a crazy amount of hair! this is all you. we stopped cleaning and started swiffering.

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every one of us knows and loves one of these kids. for expert information and free resources, visit childmind.org. chris: long time trump ally roger stone celebrating friday night after the president commuted his prison sentence days before stone was set to be locked up. it's time nor our sunday group. gop strategist karl rove, former democratic congresswoman, jane harman, director of the wilson center and senator mitch mcconnell's former chief of staff, josh holmes. carl, roger stone was convicted of lying to congress and obstructing justice in the investigation of possible collusion between the trump campaign and russia, the special counsel of course found there was no collusion. but mitt romney, republican

senator mitt romney said of the president's commutation of roger stone, he tweeted yesterday, it is historic corruption. is it? >> i don't think so. it may be unpleasant. you left out witness tampering which was the third charge in which he was found guilty. i thought it was interesting the president didn't pardon roger stone but commuted his sentence. so roger stone remains convicted of those three charges. attorney general barr defended the prosecution in a congressional hearing recently by calling it righteous and appropriate and saying the sentence was fair. i thought what was interesting was that on friday night when this occurred, the biden campaign sent out a spokesman who issued a statement and we haven't heard from biden since. i think that's smart. i think he realizes that this is not going to change much. if you didn't like donald trump, you don't like this decision. if you like donald trump, you like this decision. and in the 115 days left in the campaign, joe biden has decided

apparently that it's more important for him to talk about coronavirus and the economy and trade and buy america than it is to talk about roger stone. i think that would be good advice for the president as well. i think it would be good advice for roger stone if he cares about his friend donald trump to equally remain silent. chris: let's talk about the merits of this commutation. the white house says that stone, the stone prosecution was carried out by, quote, over zealous prosecutors who were investigating the russia hoax. interestingly enough, the commutation, however, got the special counsel, robert mueller, to write an op ed piece in the washington post today. he writes about stone. he communicated in 2016 with individuals known to us to be russian intelligence officers and he claimed advanced knowledge of wikileaks' release of e-mails stolen by those of russian intelligence officers.

congresswoman harman, did the president commute roger stone's sentence because roger stone covered for him during the investigation? >> well, only the president can answer that. but it certainly looks like that. i thought mueller's op ed was compelling and the fact that attorney general barr as karl just said called this prosecution righteous ought to make clear there weren't many people in the white house of certainly or in the pardon process which was not followed who thought this was a good idea. trump has issued very few pardons. according to the washington post today, 36. 31 of them are to political or personal friends and that's a low number of pardons but the process he has followed or the lack of process is shocking and let me just say one more thing. we'll get to the supreme court decision. i know we will. but there is an issue about whether along the way president

trump can pardon himself, maybe after the election. let's imagine. there was an office of legal counsel opinion august 5th, 1974, just before nixon resigned, that said the president cannot pardon himself. congress might be able to pardon. but that's something i think we ought to be anticipating at this point. chris: well, except i'm not sure what he would pardon himself for since nobody has found that he committed a crime. we're not talking about pardons here. we're talking about commutation. josh, as we pointed out, attorney general barr who has stuck pretty close to president trump ever since he was appointed did call the prosecution righteous, he did call the sentence, the reduced sentence which he pushed for, 40 months, fair. so how do senate republicans when they're asked about it, how do they defend this commutation? >> well, i think you've got to approach it in the context of

everything that's happening in the world. the idea that we're sort of expressing outrage or taking time over the plight of the 67-year-old washed up political consultant in the backdrop of 120,000 americans losing their lives to coronavirus and 20 million people being unemployed seems a bit small, seems a bit ridiculous. i think senate republicans are really smart to focus on what matters here, and what matters to voters in 2020 is what are you doing to get this country back on track. the more time frankly that the president and democrats stand on litigating and relitigating the 2016 election, the worse off everybody is. because frankly, nobody's interested in that any longer. chris: all right. let's turn to the other big court case this week, the supreme court by a vote of 7-2 including the two trump appointees, gorsuch and kavanaugh, voting with the majority, ruled that the president does not have absolute immunity from any investigations.

however, they did send the case, the investigation of whether or not the subpoenas into his tax records back to lower courts to adjudicate. here what the reaction from president trump and house speaker pelosi. >> it's a political witch hunt, the likes of which nobody's ever seen before. it's a pure witch hunt. it's a hoax. >> we have a path that the supreme court has laid out that we certainly will not ignore and we will never stop our oversight. chris: karl, your thoughts about this supreme court ruling and the fact that on a number of hot button issues, this term of the supreme court, they dealt setbacks to the president despite the conservative majority, whether it was daca or gay rights or this ruling on his immunity issue. >> well, there are actually two issues this week decided by the court on his immunity issue. one involved the subpoena by the

manhattan prosecutor, who is looking into the payments to the so of-called hush payments and that case the court held that the prosecutor could move forward with requesting those documents. but that the president had the same rights that anybody else had in those kind of situations meaning there are going to be lots of court challenges, lots of arguments and the prosecutor's unlikely to see those tax returns if he ever sees them until well after the november election. the other one, the house democrats were dealt a severe blow. they wanted to, quote, use the president's tax returns as, quote, a case study for creating legislation maybe on ethics, maybe on tax reform and the court held by 7-2 margin that that didn't fly, that didn't have an unbridled ability to force the president to compel the production of documents for legislative purposes. they actually had to show that those documents were critical and they weren't allowed to use the president as, quote, a case study for the preparation of

legislation. the u.s. house of representatives, i don't know what speaker pelosi thinks she's got in the way of options but i read the decision. that's a very tough decision, 7-2. and its basically i think ends the ability of the house of representatives to get ahold of those tax documents without new circumstances arising which, again, are not likely to occur between now and the election. chris: all right. panel, we're going to have to take a break here but when we come back, president trump announces an about-face on daca while joe biden unveils an economic plan that sounds awfully familiar. we'll have the latest on the 2020 state of play. ok everyone, our mission is to provide complete, balanced nutrition for strength and energy. whoo-hoo! great tasting ensure with 9 grams of protein, 27 vitamins and minerals, and nutrients to support immune health.

>> one of the aspects of the

bill is going to be daca. we're going to have a road to citizenship. chris: president trump revealing he plans to sign an executive order and work with congress on immigration reform that would among other things protect the so-called dreamers who are brought to the u.s. as children and we're back now with the panel. congresswoman harman, president trump has worked for years to end the daca program and in fact during this term of the supreme court they said they struck down the way he was trying to do it. now less than four months before the election, he says he wants to protect the so-called dreamers and even give them a path to citizenship. what's going on here? >> well, i think election is going on here. and i think the fact that some of his -- some republican senators in tough states are not popular with latinos is going on here. i don't see any chance that he will follow through with that promise.

george w bush came close. he had a very good proposal which lost in congress just by a few votes. it was tragic when that happened. that's been out there for years. congress agrees on almost nothing so i don't see this as a logical, sadly, or likely result of his latest statement. chris: karl, as a political strategist and mastermind, when you've been opposing daca and protection for the dreamers for years, can you sell that you're now the protecter of the dreamers in the last 115 days before the election? >> you know, you ask a political question and i'll give you a nonpolitical answer. for god's sake let's say yes. let's have the democrats and republicans in congress and the president of the united states do something that we vitale need which is a legislative situation to -- legislation solution to the situation faced by those who came here at a young age who

know no other country except ours who need a path to citizenship. is it likely to happen? it's unlikely to happen. i don't care whether the president is credible on this or not. he has said yes. i wish to god we could find a way to say yes. after what happened with tim scott's bill where the democrats in the senate refused to even take up the measure and allow it to be debated so we could maybe find a compromise language between the house and senate on reform of law enforcement in the aftermath of george floyd's death, i'm with the congresswoman, i think it's unlikely but for god's sake i wish it was. chris: yeah, of course the tim scott legislation you're talking about had to do with policing reform. josh, you're our of expert on congress. there's some things the president can do through executive order but the path to citizenship he's talking about, wouldn't that have to be patched by -- passed by congress and what are the realistic prospects for any kind of immigration reform between now and november

3rd? >> yeah, i mean, i certainly hope that it requires legislation. i imagine if there's another democratic administration at some point they would love the ability to try to wave in a whole bunch of illegal immigrants through executive fiat. it's not possible to do that. the prospect of legislation, however, i think is pretty dim for the reasons that karl pointed out. if you can't get something like police reform done where 70% of the package is entirely bipartisan and senate democrats won't debate it out of fear that republicans might get an accomplishment in an election year, the prospects of doing something as grand as immigration reform seems pretty dim for those reasons. i think the president has had an appetite to do this for several years now and he's talked about wanting to get this to some kind of a congressional consideration. unfourtunfortunately there's soh politics here. i think democrats at this point in the election cycle think it's

a better issue than a solution. chris: let's switch subjects. speaking of shape shifting, joe biden, the i guess almost certain democratic nominee for president issued his economic plan for 2020 and beyond this week and it had a familiar ring to it, buy american. here is some of the vice president. >> the federal government spends taxpayers' money, we should use it to buy american products and support american jobs. chris: karl, president trump accused joe biden of stealing his america first plan and it was noteworthy that in this long speech about his economic plan, joe biden made no mention of his support over the years for international trade deals like nafta and the pacific trade partnership. >> yeah. well, you know, his first campaign for president was

thrown off the rails by plagerism, he plagerized a british labor party candidate's speeches. he's apparently plagerizing president trump's plan. sound of it sounded like the stimulus bill. we're going to give billions of dollars to favored industries and give money to companies that do good things. there's also in 110 of pages a lot of stuff that's sort of interesting. for example, he picked up on something that's a big favorite of bernie sanders and elizabeth warren. he calls it the end of shareholder capitalism. in other words, we're going to no longer have companies be concerned about the people who own stock in their company, we're going to take away the power from the people who own stock in the company and give it to the people who don't own the companies, namely governments, unions and interest groups and they'll sit down with managers of companies and arrive at an understanding as to how the

companies will operate, particularly with regard to social issues and economic issues. chris: let me bring in congresswoman harman before her head swivels right off her neck. she's shaking her head so much back and forth. let me ask you this question. can joe biden campaign credibly as an economic nationalist? >> well, that's part of his plan. bilit could be capitalism for a. i mean, let's understand, karl, that stockholders are not the only people who matter in america. they do matter. but workers and education of workers and our r&d and high tech future matter and the transition to new work matters. and i think that's whereby den's going with -- where biden's going with this. i didn't vote for nafta, by the way. i salute democrats and republicans, josh, they can work together on the recent u.s.,

mexico, canada agreement, that's a very good trade agreement and it's tech savvy and will build jobs in three countries. i'm saying trade is a good thing. i don't think biden disagrees with that, certainly the democratic party doesn't disagree with that under fair circumstances and i think that this new economic plan is better than anything we've seen and it has modest cost and it's paid for, he has three more pieces to come out, by the rollback of the $4 trillion deficit busting tax cuts that were enacted recently by congress. chris: i want to get josh but karl, quick response to congresswoman harman. >> it's not that he says he's going to have others join in with the stockholders. the plan is called the end of shareholder capitalism. they don't want the shareholders to matter anymore. they want crony capitalism in which managers, unions and -- and they say that explicitly in the plan. go read it, 110 pages. chris: josh, i want to push to

something else. while the president is trailing in the polls, a lot of senate republicans, your old home, they're in trouble as well. let me put up this graphic on the screen. there are a half dozen senate incouple bents, -- incumbents, according to real clear politics who are either losing or in toss-up. is your old boss, mitch mcconnell, about to become the senate minority leader? >> well, i think the most important thing to start with is we're 114 days until the election. if you look back 114 days, chris, we were just beginning the middle of march an economic shutdown due to coronavirus. the politics of today weren't even envisioned. i think my point there is that in the trump era, 114 days is a long time. there's an awful lot that is going to happen. and i think the issues that govern what voters are looking at in november may be entirely

different from what they're looking at now. let me say at the outset, the one piece that's concerning for senate republicans is that at the candidate level democrats are raising a ton of money, outraising republicans by a significant amount. on the other side, what republicans have going for them is that they do have superior candidates. that 14 -- 2014 class that was elected is a very strong class, people like cory gardner, thom tillis, that are extremely -- susan collins, extremely strong candidates. chris: yeah. of course i think almost everyone you mentioned there is either in a toss-up or in a state that's now leaning democrat. we will continue this conversation. we've got 115 days according to karl rove. thank you, panel. see you next sunday. up next, our power player of the week, creating stylish hats and going strong at the century mark. (announcer) now more than ever, it's important to lose weight,

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did you know liberty mutual customizes your car insurance ta-da! so you only pay for what you need? i should get a quote. do it. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ beautifying the landscape, purifying our water supply, filtering the air we breathe, and cooling the climate. now more than ever, our national forests need us. visit arbor day dot org and see how you can help. chris: she's 100 year's old, hat maker for generations of style-conscious washington women and as we first told you in march she has no intention of slowing down. here is our power player of the

week. ♪ >> this is my home, my second home. let's try this one. chris: vanilla beane second home is hat shop, special part of washington for 40 years. [laughter] chris: why do you think hats are important for women? >> because it completes the outfit. chris: her creations are beautiful and intricate and no two are alike and each one makes a statement. chris: what's a proper church hat? >> well, any hat that's not too fancy, not too wild. chris: beane's finished the look of civil rights leader. >> we like the hats she wore like a crown. >> she would come in when she needed something to match the

outfit. chris: there's a famous picture of dorothy, it's your hat is what she's wearing there. >> it feels good. chris: hats became beane's hobby when she worked in elevator operator in a hat shop. >> i kept going. chris: today her works can run upwards $500, they've been featured in african american museum and culture and paintings by artist ferry and when she turned 100 last fall, dc mayor declared it vanilla beane day, an occasion which called for a new hat. >> it was a quick job. chris: quick job. last minute? >> yeah. chris: for your 100th birthday. >> vanilla beane.

chris: it's not just her hats that make a statement. when did you realize that your married name was vanilla beane? >> i was in the drugstore and the pharmacist said do you know there's a vanilla beane. chris: and what did you think when you -- >> i guess it was meant to be. chris: vanilla beane is still creating and still taking inspiration from advice she got as a child. >> love many, trust few, learn to paddle your own canoe. chris: any thoughts about retiring? >> no. chris: why not? >> this is my life. chris: are you happy where life has taken you? >> it's been good. i can't complain. chris: in these challenging times it's nice to know there are still some in the world, we

will see you next fox news ♪ ♪ ♪ [music] >> firefighters are trying to contain a massive fire that broke out in ship in naval base. the uss bottom rashard this morning, it is docked in san diego at the harbor and there are dramatic scene of bellowing smoke emanating from the ship. we interrupt you in the journal editorial report for a few moments for our breaking coverage. i'm eric sean in new york. molly: i'm molly line for arthel neville. multiple sailors are being treated for injuries including one p