>> sandra: does it for us, trace. >> trace: great to see you. >> gillian: you, too. i'll see you tonight at 7:00 p.m. on "the story." things for joining us. "outnumbered" starts right now. >> harris: we begin with this fox news alert. police in portland, oregon, have declared a riot again, two nights in a row, 70 for all the unrest. protesters tried to break into a police precinct, set fires outside of it, and then were shining leaders is tha police od vandalizing the build. this during yet another night of demonstrations in oregon's largest city, all of it in the city picking up after what has been a quieter weekend of protests, as federal agents drew down their operation.

now portland's police chief is calling for an end to the violence. >> i think it does rely on portland. i think it's portlanders and a general sense. everyone from the person who owns a mom-and-pop store to the big business owners, faith leaders, all the way up to elected officials. to release and the strong message that enough is enough. this is not forwarding the goals of things that are going to lead to better outcomes for people of color. this movement is very powerful, and i feel like the violence has taken away from it. this is not what portland is about. this is not what we need right now in our city. >> harris: meanwhile, on capitol hill, acting dhs secretary chad wolf is testifying today, right now, on the response of the protests in portland. here is chad wolf on the continued violence. >> for over 60 days, federal property in portland, the federal courthouse has been attacked by violent criminals,

violent opportunists, and violent anarchists. our federal officers have found baseball bats, sledgehammers, molotov cocktails, fireworks, accelerant, ieds, and others. >> harris: this is "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. here today, fox news correspondent gillian turner. fox's headlines 24/7 reporter, carley shimkus. fox news contributor, jessica tarlov. joining us today, former white house press secretary for president george w. bush, also a fox news member of our family as a contributor, ari fleischer is here. great to see you, everybody, on this fine friday eve. [laughter] ari, as we look at this, no matter what your politics are now, we are starting to see a merge. i've been calling it out for weeks, because we saw it here in new york with the brooklyn borough president, eric adams. he said if you defund the anti-crime unit you've got to put that back together, that

billion dollars you took away. we are going to be needing that. night after night, you got to see why. portland now, there police chief saying something similar. enough is enough, it'll take everybody now. your take? >> ari: i just hope the summers of love don't turn into autumns of love. when is this going to end? with the cities and these mayors, what they need to realize that there is a legitimate group and an illegitimate group. the legitimate group by the people who want to remember the memory of george floyd, who want to do something to deal with racism in america. the illegitimate group are people who engage in violence, and if you yield an inch them, they will take over your city. that is what mayors have to realize. if you don't get tough against the people who engage in violence, you're going to get more violence. >> harris: yeah. you know, as we look at all of this, night after night after night, and we try to figure out what the answers are, one thing is clear.

you just mentioned something, ari, that we don't say a lot. george floyd's name. again, i come back to you on a quick last thought on that. >> ari: that's what we should be remembering. there's a legitimacy to protest. when people go into the streets after a heinous murder, it's appropriate, it's american, is legitimate. when violent elements infiltrate that, trying to take it over, and then forget about it and just engage in violence, it has nothing to do with george floyd are making anything better. these are the anarchists. violent, riotous groups that we have police to deal with in the first place. >> harris: carley, i know at 24/7 headlines, a radio family here at fox, that you've been drilling down on who is on the streets and what they are about. one thing that has become very apparent, maybe since the beginning, but particularly now, as he heard the police chief of portland say, the peaceful protesters and their ideas of change are being drowned out by

the violence. but they are also being drowned out by something else. they are yelling at the same time sometimes different things. they are drowning each other out, and it's hard to know exactly what say sheets the situation. change, like what we've been talking about with ari, post george floyd, or do they want something else? >> carley: yeah, and the theory that the federal agents were making the situation worse has been debunked. just look at this video we are watching. that happened last night. oregon state police had taken the situation over, and the violence really shifted to targeting police precincts now. speaking of violence, harris, in july portland saw the highest murder rates that the city has seen in 30 years. the police chief that are made it very clear as to why. he said these riots are an all hands on deck situation. if you call 911, you're going to have to wait. of course that undermines the black lives matter cause. if you look at the structure of

the portland police bureau, they actually are used to force laws that are much more restrictive than state and federal guidelines. if police and protesters really talked it out, they probably would agree on the type of policing that works in their community. of course, talking isn't something that anybody is doing right now. it's just violence and anarchy. >> harris: you know, gillian, having looked at national security issues in your previous lanes of career, i'm curious where we go from here. as carley has pointed out, the feds right now aren't the problem. it doesn't matter what the people on the streets say, they can point to last night and figure out, if the feds pulled back, it devolves into something else. but there might still need to be some sort of top-down approach to this. what do you think? >> gillian: harris, you are already seeing the top-down approach get implemented, because, as chad wolf is testifying over on capitol hill

as we speak right now, local law enforcement has jumped ship and a lot of the cities. not necessarily of their own volition, but because they are being defunded, because they are being hamstrung in multiple ways by local city councils and local governments. he is making the case to lawmakers right now, chad wolf, the acting director of homeland security, that there is no choice. he might be getting a lot of flak from democrats about militarizing america's city streets, but he says, in the absence of police forces giving their jobs in these places where violence is on the rise early in the summer, new york city, washington, d.c., when we have looting and rioting, knowing portland and seattle, he's making the case that there is nobody else. we are the last resort. that's why we are going into the cities right now. "if we are not there, who else?" and there isn't anybody. >> harris: jessica, much as we

have watched the pandemic, i would look for those tipping points. those moments that will tip us into positive change or something that is not positive. what do you see is the tipping point that got us to where we are now? and, look, george floyd. we should be saying that. may 25th. this is far afield from that. now it's something different every night, and it's violent. >> jessica: there are certainly violent aspects to it. i want to push back on what carley said that nothing has changed since the feds left. the pictures that are circulating, it's different from the walls of veterans are the pictures of journalists with rubber bullets to the head. that's a different scenario right now at -- >> carley: pretty sure i saw protesters -- i would still call that -- >> jessica: that's not thousands of people getting tear gassed.

i can defend the fact that it looks vastly different than it did when the feds were there. to harris' point, in terms of the fact that we should be talking about george floyd, that's absolutely true. when you combine a social justice movement with a health pandemic like this, and people are at home, networking, their frustrations that are economic, that are health related, on thel justice friend. >> harris: let me step in for a second, because i want to follow up on that point with you. carley, you can take on the other aspect in a moment. when you mix in covid-19, i think it's all one big batch of unfortunate stew. for those people who are really feeling it, then i began to ask, why aren't they doing what they can while they are in the streets to prevent any worse thing from happening to them?

for instance, is it helpful to be out at 3:00 in the morning around people who might not have the best judgment about doing things like social distance and wearing masks? who might be shouting, who might be throwing things? is that really the best way for you to work out your frustrati frustration? it sounds dangerous to me from a covert standpoint, and i don't hear a lot of democrats, but really lawmakers in general, calling that out. >> jessica: i think it was a few weeks ago on this program, ari made a well-timed joke that nothing good happens past midnight or 2:00 a.m. that's the reason there are bar closures in cities across the country. >> harris: this is more advanced than a joke. i'm serious about this. >> jessica: i wasn't trying to -- >> harris: you talked about how frustrated people are. how will they be less frustrated if they don't go home at 3:00 in the morning and get away from the danger? have to move on, will get back to it.

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if congress can come together ultimately on a new coronavirus relief package. suggesting yesterday that, if they are not able to reach a deal with democrats by tomorrow -- that's friday -- it is likely the end of negotiations altogether. treasury secretary steve mnuchin, though, later tried to walk back those comments from meadows. meanwhile, earlier today, house speaker nancy pelosi said she is still optimistic. listen. >> we have been making some progress, proceeding in a positive way. we are not there yet. i have said i see a light at the end of the tunnel. we just don't know how long the tunnel is, but we have to move more quickly, because the light at the end of that tunnel may be a freight train of the virus coming at us if we do not act to contain it. >> gillian: president trump is floating unilateral action, meanwhile, on eviction protections, extending enhanced unemployment benefits, and a

payroll tax holiday. americans nationwide are sort of reaching their boiling point with frustration over congress' inability to get something done. ari, one thing i was thinking about early this morning is, what is to stop president trump from just saying, "you know what, everybody on the hill? get over here," sit them down in the oval office, and say, "no one's going home until we have a deal." >> ari: because that never works. [laughs] the fact of the matter -- >> gillian: is it worth a try? >> ari: no, the leaders have jobs to do and the white house has a job to do, and that's to reach an agreement. this is what majority leaders are for and what we do in this country. it's not a question to put 534 people in a room, it's putting three, four, five people in a room. that's how it's always worked. gillian, the speaker, nancy pelosi, was talking about tunnels and lights at the end of the tunnel. the best way to make the tunnel collapse on all the american people is to tell them they're not allowed to get up in the

morning and go to work. if you want to help this country, the most compassionate thing you can do for people is to allow them to return to their jobs, and that's what we have to increasingly face. the solution is to live with coronavirus, treated, and fight it everywhere possible as america returns to work. we can't shut down our country and keep paying people not to work. you can't shut down our country and keep bailing out industries that are going broke. you have to stop them from going broke, and that means getting back to work, opening up the doors to america again. >> gillian: so come on that point, opening up the doors, getting people back to work again, jessica, you know better than anybody else that te democrat line on this is that testing is still not everywhere that it should be in this country. it's not as readily available, it's not happening as quickly as it should be. where is that in these talks? are you hearing from democrats that it's a sticking point for

chief of staff mark meadows and steve mnuchin? >> jessica: it certainly is a democratic priority, but i'm not hearing that it's a real focus of the talks, necessarily. it seems like a lot of back and forth about how much is going to go into the benefits package going out with democrats wanting to renew, from what they said in the cares act, 600 republicans coming back with less. i was out in los angeles, actually, doing this would opening up the doors looked like. i got out there, was able to eat in restaurants, and within eight days they were having to close that again. i would love for everybody to go back to work, but unfortunately we are not healthwise. i want to add to the earlier point you were making about what's holding all this up. i saw an interesting piece of reporting that mitch mcconnell has a much easier time working with nancy pelosi then with chuck schumer, and that schumer is more of the hold up in the senate. when pelosi says she sees the light at the end of the tunnel, i think that might be that she

feels she can work with mitch mcconnell on this and that he understands the gravity of the situation. not just her every day americans, but looking ahead to the election, that republicans need to look like they are taking this seriously and want to help americans. >> gillian: harris, nancy pelosi also says that president trump doesn't have access to the kinds of funds that he would need in order to make a really big impact on millions of americans' lives. so the threat of unilateral executive action is just for show. >> harris: look, we are going to see what the wrangling looks like in terms of what he can and cannot do with executive orders. i do think it's interesting, too, that congress at this point probably doesn't want to be completely left out of this. that the option the president has given them. if you want to make yourself obsolete going into an election year, just don't have anything to do with rescuing people on the issues that they say are most important. bloom, you've got it. we've already seen that somewhat in the message and come from the white house. they are now addressing some

things that the president, via coronavirus, so on and so forth. democrats may have to learn a different type of deeper lesson on that if they can negotiate. the president just leaving the white house, making comments moments ago to reporters. we want to catch that as he is on his way today to ohio. we are watching for that to come to us, and we do know that they were a couple of things, some comments by joe biden getting a lot of flak. the president asked about those, and also an nra lawsuit in the state of new york. let's watch. >> president trump: did you watch that clip? joe biden this morning, he totally disparaged and insulted the black community. what he said is incredible. i don't know what's going on with him, but it was a very insulting statement he made. i guess you'll figure that out, you'll see it in a little while. it was a great insult to the black community. we are going to ohio, we have great things happening in ohio.

we have a lot of wonderful things happening. i will probably be talking to you a little bit later about the coronavirus. we are trying to keep that about the same time. we have a lot of good information because new information. vaccines are doing very well. we had some good talks this morning on vaccines and on therapeutics. a lot of good things are happening. >> reporter: [inaudible] >> president trump: on the vaccine? i am, i'm optimistic it'll be probably around that. i believe we will have the vaccine before the end of the year, certainly, but around that date, yes. i think so. >> reporter: [inaudible] >> president trump: it wouldn't hurt, but i'm not doing -- i'm doing it not for the election. i wanted fast because i want to save a lot of lives.

>> reporter: [inaudible] this week you were talking about people dying of coronavirus. you said "it is what it is." use those words. is that the message -- >> president trump: look at the statement i made right after that. >> reporter: "it is what it is, but that doesn't mean it's not doing everything we can." >> president trump: i said something else after that too. the message is simple. nobody else can do what i've done in terms of all of the things that we are doing to combat this horrible disease that never should have been sent to us. it came from china, it should never have been allowed to leave china. they could have easily done something. they stopped it from coming into china, but they didn't stop it from coming into the u.s. and europe and the rest of the world. china should have done something about it. frankly, it's a disgrace that they didn't. >> reporter: mr. president, will you talk to governor cuomo

when you're in new york? >> president trump: we will talk to governor cuomo, they are looking to do the second avenue subway project. we are talking about that. we are also talking about the tram from the airport to a certain location. we will be talking to him, yes. >> reporter: [inaudible] >> president trump: i think they have something scheduled. >> reporter: what evidence have you seen about children being immune from this virus? >> president trump: all you have to do is read the newspapers or read the medical reports. >> reporter: [inaudible] >> reporter: [inaudible] >> president trump: we are going to see. what china did is a terrible thing, whether it was incompetence or it on purpose, it was a terrible thing that they did to the world. not only to the united states, but to the world. a terrible thing. >> reporter: [inaudible] the nra? >> president trump: i just

heard about that, that's a very terrible thing that just happened. i think the nra should move to texas and lead a very good and beautiful life. i've told them that for a long time. i think they should move to texas. texas would be a great place for it. to another state of their choosing. but i would say that texas would be a great place and an appropriate place for the nra. this has been going on for a long time. they've been absolutely decimated by the cost of that lawsuit, and it is very sad, but i would suggest that's what they should be doing. thank you. >> harris: the president of the united states, from just moments ago, boarding marine one and also getting on air force one just a few miles away. he is headed to cleveland, ohio, today. but the comments they are were pretty wide-ranging. i want to bring back the panel now. what he just said,

ari fleischer, the nra should move to texas and live a long and beautiful life, in response to new york's attorney general today suing the national rifle association, seeking to put the powerful gun advocacy organization out of business over allegations that high-ranking executives diverted millions of dollars for lavish personal trips, no show contract for associates, and other what they call in this report "questionable expenditures." i would just say one of them, long time leader wayne lapierre, in recent years, had spent some on hair and makeup for his wife, up to $17 million post employment contracts for himself. those are the sorts of things. president trump says go to texas. ari, what do you say? >> ari: first of all, and my beautiful state of new york, the attorney general's one of the most partisan figures. this attorney general ran on an anti-trump platform and an anti-republican conservative platform. this is how the office gets politicized. on the merits of this, there's

always two sides to a lawsuit. let's see what the nra says. they have to defend themselves here. i don't know the facts. on the politics of it, this is one of the dumbest, biggest mistakes and attorney general or anyone can make an election year. this is going to energize gun owners across america, as if they're not energized already. if you think there is a threat to your second amendment rights before, wait until the democrats now try to get rid of the organization that represents gun owners. this, politically, is going to backfire big time on the democrats. of course, as a suit, it'll play out over the years, not weeks. the politics is playing out immediately. >> harris: jessica, your response? >> jessica: i think there's a lot of truth to what ari said. i have always looked to the right and said that there are two main animating issues there for elections. right to bear arms, and being pro-life. the left doesn't have any meeting issues in the same way, and hopefully that will be more on the issue for the left now

that we see how many judge appointments the president has been able to get through. i'm not sure it politically backfires, but it certainly brings the second amendment to the four as a central issue in this election. the president can talk about it now, but vice president pence can talk about it, and obviously the groups will be out there praising what has been done here. but i wanted to focus, election wise, on the coronavirus and the president's handling of this health pandemic versus talking about the second amendment. >> harris: can i just double down with you for a second, jessica? maybe you can tell me how it works inside the democratic party. wouldn't somebody have talked with this letitia james, this new york attorney general, about this lawsuit before? maybe not talk about it, but would she given democrats at the highest level going into the presidential campaign less than 95 days away, that this is coming down the pike? ari says it'll take years anyway, but the timing of this, when you say you want to focus

on covid-19, seems to almost push you very close to the edge of a bridge that you don't want to fall off of. >> jessica: there were reporters on line that said it isn't about president trump's finances, which is what everyone initially thought when her office tweeted out that she be holding a press conference at 11:30. we also thought the deutsche bank materials were turned over, we'll hear something about the trump organization. i'm sure they knew and they obviously aren't going to stop her doing her job. i imagine they want to move past it to some degree to say we are against noncommon sense gun ownership, people who are not getting their background checks checks, et cetera. >> harris: carley, real quickly, i'm curious to get your take on this. we are seeing the president say go to texas, texas on gun rights is very different than the state

of new york. this does seem like a bit of a gift to hand republicans going into a season when the president, until recently, still struggling with getting a high top-down plan for covid testing, so on and so forth. now you say, "you know what? lets put the concentration on something it unifies --" and i'm not saying it as eloquently as jessica did -- "a lightning rod for republicans and gunowners." >> carley: it'll be interesting to see how much attention this announcement receives. i think a lot of democrats are probably a little bit disappointmendisappointed the at didn't have to do with president trump's tax returns and that it had to do with the nra. just overall, if i could make sort of a macro statement on the president's comments he just gave to the media, obviously still sticking to his statements

on the coronavirus pandemic because he is getting questions about it still. saying children are immune to this. i wish he would say they were less affected by it, but he is still sticking to that. in terms of how he's handling the media, it has changed over the past two or three weeks, where he is taking fewer questions. i'm sure there's a point in his presidency were the rest of "outnumbered" would have been and talking to the media. as you hear the play noise in the background. that is how he used to do it. he is taking fewer questions and he is less combative with the media, as well. i'm sure someone in his campaign is telling them to do that. overall, i think it's the right strategy. >> harris: i want to know what you think about that, ari. we got about ten seconds. >> ari: absolutely, i'm the one who recommends you keep those briefings to 30 minutes or less. they've gone for two hours, that's my reference to the bar after 2:00 a.m. short and sharp as what you do, leave them wanting more. >> harris: gillian, i promise will eat you on the flip side. the debate over debates.

the response from the biden camp after the president's campaign call for an earlier debate, citing the surgeon early voting due to the pandemic. that people should see it before they vote. whether there should be a debate about the debate at all. ♪

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i'm an associate here at amazon. step onto the blue line, sir. this device is giving us an accurate temperature check. you're good to go. i have to take care of my coworkers. that's how i am. i have a son, and he said, "one day i'm gonna be like you, i'm gonna help people." you're good to go, ma'am. i hope so. this is my passion. if i can take of everyone who is sick out there, i would do it in a heartbeat.

>> harris: breaking news now. as you might imagine, after the president of the united states spoke moments ago about a lawsuit filed in new york by the new york attorney general against the national rifle association, there has been quite a bit of blowback in just the last couple of minutes. the latest thing that has happened since breaking news moments ago is an nra statement. it reads from the nra president carolyn meadows. "this was a baseless premeditated attack on our organization and the second amendment freedoms it fights to defend. you could have set your watch by it. the investigation was going to

reach its crescendo as we move into the 2020 election cycle. it is a transparent attempt to score political points and attack the leading voice and opposition to the leftist agenda. this has been a power grab by a political opportunist, a desperate move that is part of a ranked political vendetta. our members will be intimidated or bullied in their defense of political and constitutional freedom." she also added this. "as evidenced by the lawsuit filed by the nra today against the new york attorney general, we not only will not shrink from this fight, we will confront it and prevail." just moments ago i was telling you about the nra lawsuit filed by attorney general a letitia james. in new york, you see wayne lapierre there named in this. of course, he was the longtime leader of the nra. in recent years, they are looking into, after an 18 month long investigation into

new york, executives using millions of dollars for lavish personal trips and the like, and wayne lapierre is on the list for things like a $17 million postemployment contract negotiation. this will continue to make news, no doubt, today. by the way, next hour, sean hannity will join me at 1:00. we will get into it. the trump campaign is asking for a change in the debate schedule. they want to add a fourth debate early next month before early voting in many states. a letter to the commission of presidential debates asks if a fourth debate cannot be added then, the last debate scheduled for late october should be moved up to the first week of september. the trump campaign also submitted a list of suggested moderators. the biden camp responded, "we have set all along, including in a letter to the commission in june, that joe biden will appear on the dates the commission selected and the locations they

chose." the president pressed his case on twitter by treating this. "how can voters be sending in ballots starting, in some cases, one month before the first presidential debate? with the first debate. a debate, to me, is a public service. joe biden and i owe it to the american people!" both the trump and biden campaigns have already agreed to three debates. gillian turner, to move or not to move? >> gillian: to president trump's points, voters in 16 states will cast their early votes for the president of the united states prior to the first scheduled presidential debate, which is september 29th. if you have a situation in america where you are asking millions of americans to go out and vote in the middle of the pandemic, when they are being told it is largely unsafe in many states to leave their homes. on top of that, you are now asking them to vote potentially without knowing who the democratic nominees vice president to pick is paid on top of that you're asking

millions of people to cast their votes without having seen the candidates face off over the issues. i spent the day on capitol hill yesterday. a lot of people are going to say this is a bridge too far, "i'm going to sit this one out." that's a scenario where both sides of the aisle lose. they put it in writing now. they have already committed to three debates they say they are going to stick to that. it might be a ploy between their styles. we are not sure yet. >> harris: joe biden is already showing some difference in campaign styles. he gave another interview, and, boy, there's been some hot water around that, ari fleischer. the president they are boarding marine was asked about it. we don't have to get into detail. i'm sure there is more time for that later.

but i am curious from you what you think about moving around dates so people have a chance to see them before they vote. >> ari: on the debates, there is a good government element to this proposal. doesn't make sense. you should watch the candidates and at least one to be before they go to vote. i think it's a practical matter. the people who tend to vote early tend to know who they want. if you are undecided, you want to wait for the debate. there's a little element of practicality. the other reason i like it as a good government proposal, it doesn't benefit either side. if trump flails at the first debate, more people will see it. if biden flails, more people will see it. i don't like people gaming the rules to benefit one side or the other. the rules need to be known in advance, be fair to all sides, and neither benefit one side nor the other. that's why i think, in a perfect world, this is a good government proposal. it ought to be accepted. i don't think it will move a lot of votes, though. >> harris: there are some good ideas out there, though.

we talked on the program yesterday about multi-day voting. giving people a longer chance to get their votes in. they could socially distance easier. this from chief of staff mark meadows, my attention yet yesterday. i watched interview he was doing. he suggested curbside voting, just like curbside pickup during the pandemic. i've known mark a lot of years. [laughs] i want to put that on a bumper sticker right now! that sounds like the answer to a lot of things. we do that for testing for covid, for a lot of reasons. again, as ari pointed out, that's not political. >> carley: or maybe voting on your phone, although that would lead to a whole bunch of other security concerns. to mark meadows' point, there's a lot of things happening right now in this election cycle that have never happened before. that is really why president trump is asking for there to be a fourth debate, or for one of the debates to be moved up. because everything is moving around right now.

we are in these unprecedented times, and it is just sort of obvious and common sense to have a debate before the first meal in ballots are cast. it really does matter. you want to see both of the presidential candidates, how they handle the pressure, and that doesn't mean president trump is going to enact. these debates are very challenging, and joe biden hit his stride later on during the democratic primary debates. i think it is important for all americans to see that, so we are all on an even playing field of where they stand on the issues before the first ballot is cast. >> harris: he hit his stride after kamala harris backed off. a member that debate? >> carley: [laughs] sure do. >> harris: we'll move on. seattle city council has cut as many 100 police officers from the force with layoffs and attrition. rejecting a plan to slash the police budget by 60% at this point. they'll do some cuts, but not the half. the vote comes a day after

seattle's mayor and police chief urged council members to hold off on those substantial cuts to 50% until the next year that was happening at the noon hour. jessica, this came, or at least seems to come, at a time when people are starting to realize, as ari asked a while ago, how long is this going to go on? are we still going to be looking at this months from now? how do you live without police forces if you are? >> jessica: and hopefully will be living out dumb i without police forces even as we come to define, in better terms, what we are imagining the police looks like. i would hate to see them taking more funds away from the police. i think major cities are moving in that direction, seeing that at home here in new york city with pushback on the billion dollars. that wasn't a straight up defunding of the police. i think this is going to be a conversation into those debates that we were just talking about, and an important one.

that is something president trump certainly wants to frame as a contrast to joe biden and the left. when he says, "i'm the most promilitary, pro-police officer, and they will let everyone run wild and suburbs. he will live the suburban dream," or whatever he said in that tweet. i think this is an important discussion have, for people to get out and see the candidates before they start voting. i am personally in favor of that and i think it's anybody's game, but we should see the next commander in chief or continuation up there against their opposition. >> harris: ari, if "law & order" is something else that democrats bend too because they know that's what keeps us safe, let's take politics out of it for a second. we do need jessica. your position has been pretty consistent all along. but we do need people to protect us. if you take the money away, what incentive are we going after

them? "will you please come to work and protect us because we like you?" >> ari: it goes so far beyond the money. put yourself in the shoes of a cop. you're out on the street and doing really tough work. the question of money, yes, you need the resources to be paid, you don't want cutbacks. but the bigger issue is, if the police don't think the mayors and the counsel and people above them have their back and will support them, they are going tot crime go. why take a chance and arrest a guy, get put on camera, something goes wrong, and all the politicians cut and run from you? what happens? the police stand back. we see in baltimore and across the country. that leads to the spike in crime, as well. police should be properly funded. i don't like these cutbacks. but they also need to be supported. i think you can reform police practices and support the police at the same time. >> harris: we'll move on. new york city taking drastic new steps at this point to curb the

spread of covid-19 from out-of-state travelers. look at this! what mayor bill de blasio just announced. does it go too far? just to give you a little hint, does it go too far because you're in your car? we'll be right back. >> we cannot take the risk of this virus. we've had two months of incredible success. god bless the people of new york city. we won't let it slip away now. ♪

>> carley: new york city taking a drastic new step in the battle against coronavirus, setting up quarantine checkpoints at major travel hubs in key entry points. the head of newark's contact tracing efforts at out-of-state travelers account for a fifth of all new coronavirus cases. under the plan, travelers from more than 30 states will be screened and given instructions to self-quarantine for 14 days. mayor bill de blasio says those who refuse will be held accountable. >> we want to do this in a respectful way that is based on information. it is not punitive. it is letting people know that there is a new law and effect that is an emergency law, based

on health and safety. and we need people to understand, whether they are coming from whethe one of those5 states, they are obliged by law to quarantine. >> carley: the agency spearheading the operation says they plan on checking in through calls and text messages and will send a team to come knock on your door if you don't respond. fines will run up the thousands of dollars. new york and new jersey first issued a joint travel advisory back in june. that time, for just nine states. it has increased exponentially upwards of 30. new york city has been through hell and back because of this coronavirus pandemic, but is it appropriate for the government, jessica, to monitors people's whereabouts in this way? >> jessica: i'm conflicted about it. i am very much enjoying the fact that we are at least able to have outdoor dining now, that things seem to be a little bit more normal. you can go into a story, obviously socially distanced. i don't want to risk that.

then again, i'm uncomfortable with government overreach and the idea that someone would come knock on my door. i think the answer is, for people to get continue to be responsible, if they text you, respond to the text message. be honest about what you're doing. he 14 days is what it takes, that's what it takes. i don't want bill de blasio at my door. >> harris: [laughs] >> carley: neither do i. no offense to him, of course. do you think this is just a scare tactic? i don't know how you get people to tell the truth, if they are by the lincoln tunnel in their car, can't they just lie about where they came from? >> ari: sure, and some people will actually accepted as helpful information. i think it shows the government is grappling with what to do. which shows how bad this virus is. i do get a kick out of the fact that mayor de blasio is recognizing, for the first time, that borders and rules matter. for his state, at least. for the international borders, to him, it doesn't.

i wanted to spend one night in vermont, and according to their authorities, westchester new york is too much of a risk. i had to quarantine seven nights before i got there, and show that to the state. so i didn't go to vermont. we are living in crazy times where you are basically confined to your states. this is so unprecedented. >> carley: you bring up a really point about the economic ramifications of this. the checkpoints are obviously to deter travelers from coming into the city. at the same time, harris, you have governor cuomo saying that he is calling all his rich friends trying to get them back to new york city, because new york city needs those tax dollars. >> harris: this would be the first time that governor cuomo was not in line with democratic mayor bill de blasio. i don't live in a city like some of you do, but i just remember back in march headline front

page of "new york times," "mary resisted." or at least the online version. "may resist drastic steps on virus, then came a backlash from his aides when he decided to close down schools and restaurants. what a journey. pretty much everybody was talking about what we needed to do then, and maybe arguing about it. but now you have something that seems almost like an outlier. i agree, how are you going to police this? oh, wait, you might need police. i mean, i don't know. it's, like, half baked goods. some are cooked and some aren't. >> carley: we are all trying to navigate this together in very interesting ways. good discussion. more "outnumbered" in just a moment. rates have dropped even lower. and now you can save $3000 a year. veterans can shortcut the process with newday's va streamline refi. there's no appraisal, no income verification, and not a single dollar out of pocket.

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>> gillian: thank you to today's fabulous virtual couch, carley shimkus, jessica tarlov and of course ari fleischer, thanks to everyone at home for

joining us. stay safe, stay healthy out there. here is harris. >> harris: moving in with this breaking news, president trump set to let down in cleveland, ohio, any time, he will be speaking about the economy. ohio, of course, is a key battleground state. last week jobless claims fell to their lowest level since the coronavirus pandemic began, fewer than 1.2 million. we will bring you the president's remarks live when they happen. and this is breaking this hour, the national rifle association accusing new york's attorney general of carrying out a political vendetta as she announced a new lawsuit that looks to dismantle the organization. this is "outnumbered overtime." i'm harris faulkner. the new york attorney general filed a lawsuit today after 18 months of investigation. she says that