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paul: welcome to the journal editorial report. i am paul gigot, a meeting between donald trump and volodymyr zelenskyy descended into a heated debate with donald trump accusing the ukrainian president of gambling with world war iii. >> with us you don't have the cards, you don't have, you are gambling with the lives of millions of people, you are gambling with world war iii. the problem is i have empowered you to be a tough guy and i don't think you would be a tough guy without the united states. your people are paying. make a deal we are out. >> the president canceled the planned signing ceremony for mineral rights deal in the wake of the clash telling zelenskyy to come back when he is ready for peace. for more on what is next i'm

joined by fox news senior strategic analyst jack keane. welcome, good to see you. my view of this exchange, putting my cards on the table is the big winner was a putin. this wasn't good for zelenskyy or ukraine or the president. what do you think? >> that is indisputable. vladimir putin from the outset was trying to do everything he could to separate zelenskyy from the united states and from european support and that is what he is about strategically, to break the transatlantic alliance and separate the united states from our european allies. you are absolutely right in that sense. a couple things on this. it is unprecedented to have this kind of grievance and frustration in front of the media. there was a meeting prior to this where the press was not at it. i'm not sure how long it talk

because it was cordial, but this meeting was anything but cordial. the reality is many of the grievances existed the were displayed in front of the media sounds like what was really going on in that prior meeting. trump and his team do not like zelenskyy. the lenski has two fundamental disagreements from a policy perspective going forward, one is he wants the president to be his partner going into negotiations with russia. he favors ukraine in those negotiations, trump takes a different stand believing in personal diplomacy. he sees himself in negotiations as a mediator between zelenskyy, ukraine and vladimir putin and china, he's willing to promote his adversary, vladimir putin. trump knows he is a thug, killer, manipulator, he invaded ukraine and wants to enhance

the relationship so we can get a compromise. the lenski reasons that. zelenskyy talked about a lot, guarantees of security from a future attack by vladimir putin after a deal has taken place because that is what vladimir putin has done in the past, he will break the deal and zelenskyy is concerned about that. we can get that after the deal is done and that's not hard to do and interesting enough, in this session, just about 20 minutes prior to the blowup, trump mentions the british and french will provide peacekeepers after the deal is done and conceivably, what an opening in that meeting, zelenskyy should have jumped in on that and enforced that. it went by and that's a departure from all previous statements donald trump has said by us troops after a deal has been made.

the second thing, and i think this started the blowup, zelenskyy absolutely believes when you go to a cease-fire, you've got to be prior to that some guarantees that there is going to be sick here ready. trump believes it is after. what happened here, zelenskyy when responding to a question trump answered began to lecture on cease-fires, saying there'd been 25 cease-fire's letter putin has violated, he violated one when you were president, he said no, zelenskyy said yes in 2016. at that point trump stopped looking at zelenskyy talking and began looking at the ground, zelenskyy kept going on saying we would not go into a cease-fire knowing zelenskyy is not going to accept a cease-fire that trump is

negotiating with vladimir putin unless there are guarantees of security in his future. i am saying to myself after having watched this thing two more times, what is zelenskyy thinking? he's in a meeting with trump and his staff and the media is attending it and he is rejecting a successful cease-fire that trump would negotiate with vladimir putin and is lecturing the president about it on top of that. i think that is what stimulated at some point some 20 minutes later vance to intervene on the president's behalf because he felt he was being insulted and zelenskyy again deflecting vance, just moving on, he began to debate him, went downhill from there and the president began to defend vance. paul: can this be repaired and how can it be repaired? the relationship between the us

and ukraine? whether zelenskyy is there or not? >> i tried last night by talking to zelenskyy's chief of staff. they want to sign the deal, impossible to sign the deal if you don't reconcile with the president, you have to get your president to talk to donald trump. it is common sense here. what do they do? they took off for london last night and i think the europeans likely telling them publicly they are supporting him and the fiasco with donald trump in the white house, privately they are telling him you've got to reconcile him. the deal is step one in negotiations going forward. the lenski wants to sign it but it makes peace with donald trump as a result of what took place in the oval office and when he gets around to doing that the better. if he doesn't do it and continues to be stubborn on this issue, we have major

challenges going forward here and we are not going to get a peace agreement. paul: when we come back, the ukrainian president arrives in london with a summit for european leaders, our panel takes a closer look at yesterday's oval office, how our nato allies are responding. life, diabetes, there's no slowing down. each day is a unique blend of people to see and things to do. that's why you choose glucerna to help manage blood sugar response. uniquely designed with carbsteady. glucerna. bring on the day.

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but st. jude has gotten us through it. st. jude is hope for every child diagnosed with cancer because the research is being shared all over the world. >> ukraine wants peace and we will have diplomacy, we have to be strong, we are ready, but in strong position where it is going to win. our partners with us and we

have security guarantees. >> it says ukraine need security guarantees in the us and europe. zelenskyy arrived in london with british prime minister keir starmer and european leaders. >> that exchange on friday, how much donald trump feels he needs to support ukraine or is he prepared to back away and leave it to its own to its own devices. >> in the hours, that trump could not afford to walk away from ukraine, he does not want

the loss of ukraine, the more i looked at it, i've come to the opposite conclusion. he's willing to abandon ukraine and the message he was sending zelenskyy is ukrainians have to be prepared for surrender. zelenskyy rightly kept asking for security guarantees. it is a key issue. there are not going to be anymore security guarantees from the united states other than what europeans could provide. that mineral deal is not just step one but all that donald trump is going to offer the ukrainians and that puts americans inside ukraine. donald trump is more interested in making a grand deal with russia. he wanted to do that in the first term and in this term and turn it make a similar deal with the other great power, china.

trump is dividing the world into three great superpowers, their own spheres of influence and ukraine simply doesn't fit into that equation. paul: what message does that send to our european allies and for that matter asian allies. of dan is right and i'm beginning to think that he is, that's what donald trump wants, we are talking about an epic change going back to a pre-1940s world where great powers carving the world up and the smaller powers have to make do with what they can. >> you can see they are worried about that. in the run-up to zelenskyy coming to do this deal you had a manual micro -- emmanuel macron here and keir starmer trying to change donald trump's mind and make sure these alliances remain tight but this

has got to have them feeling very concerned because whatever legwork was made blue up alongside ukraine's ambitions in that meeting yesterday. outwardly they are expressing their support for ukraine talking about how they will ramp up the military support for it. they have to be looking at this, and didn't know what to expect when he came in on foreign policy but i agree with dan, that's looking to be the case, pushed very hard by advisors around him like j. d. vance. paul: that the next ordinary role he played in that meeting, to see vice presidents intervene quickly, vance played a real role in trying to push the united states from europe and ukraine. how do you explain, what role is he playing here?

>> j. d. vance sees a different republican party. he's been critical of neoconservatives, what he calls establishment republican view on foreign policy and is positioning himself as vice president to take the mantle of president and what you see him doing alongside is attempting to shift the party into the one that he wants to inherit and donald trump's tendencies, his ambitions are to be more engaging and interact with the world a lot more than vance would like to see happen so this is an influence campaign as well as anything else. paul: vladimir putin in the kremlin looks at this and smiles but this doesn't make him more likely to a deal, he's likely to keep moving and demand even more.

>> they've demanded more. they are asking for cities that are not in their control right now, i don't think trump would go that far but i think he will probably end up with the territory he controls plus crimea and zelenskyy will have to accept that reality, going forward, vladimir putin will push further into ukraine and there is no evidence that the trump administration is willing to do anything to prevent that happening, trump has a larger view of the world and does not include protecting ukraine or eastern europe. paul: house republicans stick together to pass a budget blueprint but the battle is far from over, to get medicaid to pay for donald trump's policy

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>> republicans are lying to the american people. about medicaid. the republican budget authorizes up to $880 billion in cuts to medicaid that will hurt children, hurt families, hurt every day americans with disabilities and herzing years. paul: we are back with dan heninger and kim strassel and alisha finley. the press was basically saying for weeks that this was not going to pass. how did johnson get over the line? >> one reason republicans chose to do it, just to show the press wrong. they had a choice to hold this together or descend into chaos. for once they did the right thing. i give credit to two entities, what is mike johnson and the truth is even a couple weeks ago when this past the house budget committee, that was when

he managed to get the major factions to buy into this. what he was dealing with this week were a couple hold outs who saw a chance for a headline, they ended up coming around in the end but this was him holding together a coalition. i give credit to the senate. the house kept insisting the only way forward is one big beautiful bill but they were doing was talking about it. only when the senate started to move with its own separate strategy did they realize they risked getting left behind and got their act together. paul: if they don't pass this, 4. $5 trillion worth worth of tax increases, that's what democrats say there is a tax cut. it would be a tax increase if it doesn't pass. >> which democrats would love. i think the tax base is going to be difficult going forward. and acted a rule that allows them to use forward on the taxes but trump's big beautiful

bill presumably includes what he promised at the end of the campaign which is no taxes on tips, over time and social security benefits. adding that in not to mention the detailed process of legislating those items into the tax code is going to be difficult which as mike johnson says there are big problems ahead. it's helped with the reputation, midterm elections coming up, they want something to show for it. they have a long steep hill to climb. paul: medicaid is where democrats are staking their opposition saying this $880 billion cut so-called is going to decimate the american public. are they cuts? >> medicaid is expected to increase of $2.4 trillion over the next decade.

if you reduce spending by 880 billion you are looking at $1.5 trillion spending increase. paul: that in the congressional budget office. >> because spending on medicaid has been increasing at a fast clip faster than any other entitlement, increased by 9% during the biden administration so all you would need to do to hit that target would be to slow annual growth to 2% annually which isn't much to ask. paul: how could they do that? is there enough waste and fraud to do it alone? >> i have no doubt there is. one of the reasons why is the biden administration improved all these medicaid waivers that allow states to spend medicaid dollars on things other than healthcare including housing, homeless housing, even tribal exorcisms, the list goes on and on.

paul: and other federal programs that take care of it. what about the politics of this? republicans being skittish, some of them saying they won't vote for any medicaid cuts when it comes to the final bill. what do republicans have to do to fight back and make this case to the american people of this is not a great threat to the poor that medicaid is supposed to help. >> congratulations to barack obama, it was to suck the states and, even red states and to make it harder for republicans ever to want to do anything about this program and he managed to do that. this is an easy argument for republicans to make, you don't need that big a backbone. over the years, this has been turned away for needy kids, pregnant women, and including young men.

it would also help society in general are getting people back to work, bunch of waivers, tricks states play to bilk the federal government for more matching dollars. there's a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse. they need to win this argument this is a program that is being used for purposes it was never meant to be used for. paul: as donald trump holds his first cabinet meeting and prepares for next week's address to congress we will talk to karl rove about the highs and lows of his first five weeks in office. oh, it makes me want to tear up. i swear to god, my business has tripled in the last year because of me sharing my videos on tiktok. i wouldn't be able to support the families that work for me now without tiktok. (♪) okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete,

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>> in just over one month, illegal border crossings have plummeted by numbers nobody has ever seen before and we are fighting every day to get the prices down. inflation is stopping slowly. one of the most important initiatives his doge. we have cut billions and billions and billions of dollars, we are cutting down the size of government. we are bloated, sloppy. paul: donald trump held the first cabinet meeting of his second term when he toweled the

progress of his first few weeks in office including the push led by elon musk to cut the size of the federal government. and effort that is dividing american voters with 55% in a recent quinnipiac university poll saying musk has too much power in making decisions affecting the united states. karl rove served as senior advisor to president george w. bush. good to see you as usual. >> on this border, unbridled success. there was a particular weekend day they were tracking and the number of border crossing was less then 300. less then 3% of what is normally coming across the border. when it comes to the border and

border security, great success. more complicated when it comes to the other things the president talked about in the meeting. inflation, we got a report for january up 0.3%, that works out to 2. 5% annualized for the headline number and 2. 6% % for the core inflation number so this, before we start putting tariffs in, we are still not at the 2%, we are stuck above that but the target is 2% and the question is going to be how the coming round of tariffs, 10% on china, 25% on canada and mexico, tariffs on europe. the question is will they have an inflationary impact or not? the president seems to think they won't. finally, the doge savings. the money is not saved until it is saved. that is to say congress lowers

the baseline for future spending at those moneys are spent at the end of the year and recaptured. at one. one $0.65 billion in savings, they had to withdraw that number because they mistakenly said billions when they meant millions. we don't really know what the number is yet but god bless them for undertaking this task. our deficit was $1.8 trillion last year, estimated to be one. 9 trillion this year, 6.2%, $50 billion of savings, and again, that has to be grabbed, backed by the government to be a savings and the national debt

is $36.5 trillion so in some respects in the greater scheme of national debt can make it is not as big. paul: the doge process, some people are losing their jobs and some programs are being cut willy-nilly at least cut back, but the way musk and the trump work, explaining this with tweets or brief comments, never been a systematic attempt by either to explain and say here's why we are doing this to usaid, the consumer financial protection bureau, is there a risk of a back lash because the press is playing up every single bit of discomfort. >> when you fire the people in charge of the nuclear weapons program and have to rehire them it doesn't make it look like you've got your act together.

the press won't be there ally in this, the president of the united states is the commander-in-chief and also the explainer in chief and if one thing is missing on this it is a sense of why are you doing this and what are the benefits of it and we need the president to be engaged in that to convey this message otherwise it's just people pointing to the chaotic effort that is undertaken and it is chaotic. we are not walking in and saying i have a clear understanding of what the priorities are that we want to apply as we reduce the workforce or federal government and certainly not going to congress saying let's end this program or that program and as a result the american people are enthusiastic, you're getting rid of a bunch of bureaucrats but as it goes on itas a lot of potential, things that affect them in their community. paul: you have the scars for trying to reform entitlements. they take on medicaid.

>> kim said it great. the way the system is games, there's a explosion of medicaid, to make its benefits available to people who have historically not been medicaid beneficiaries and also an incredible effort by states to game it, california put a tax on hospitals and explained by saying when we put it on hospitals it allows them to charge more to get reimbursements from the federal government so this is a way to get revenue for other things outside healthcare. it involves hundreds of millions in one state alone. if we are going to do something about the national debt, medicaid was blown up under the biden administration and huge amounts. paul: donald trump unveils plans for a new visa program

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>> this is a gold card. we will put a price on that guard of $5 million. wealthy people will come into the country by buying this card, wealthy and successful and spending a lot of money and paying a lot of taxes and employing a lot of people. paul: donald trump unveiling plans for a gold card that would give foreigners the right to live and work in the united states along with a half to citizenship in exchange for a $5 million for you. howard lutnick said the program will replace the visa program for foreign investors and will be rolled out in the coming weeks. we are back with dan heninger, kim strassel, and alicia finley. donald trump's gold card, don't

leave india without it. good idea? >> this should be thought of the way trump talk about tariffs which is as far as revenue, that is about it. we think of immigration of people coming in, families, work the rest of their lives here. we are wealthy people coming into the united states and they do so for two reasons, one as a second resident and two as a plan b if things go wrong, insurance policy. a lot of countries use these, citizenship visas and the ones using them are russians or chinese, indians as well, india and china are great places to get rich but they start thinking about protecting those assets and one way to do that is come to the united states.

that's what is going on here but i don't think it has much to do with growing the economy is immigrant of them to the united states. paul: you followed the program that they would replace and that has problems. >> how this program, a foreigner with $500,000, in a qualified project, in a disadvantaged neighborhood but states determine what is a disadvantaged neighborhoods. of new york decided midtown manhattan was disadvantaged. either one, keep your eye on foreign real estate money and all kinds of other things. terry mccullough in virginia, democratic governor was caught up and this $5 million green

card is a little cleaner, doesn't bring the same investment. paul: alleged problems with terry mcauliffe, there was never a common investigation of a thing like that. so kim, you think this is an improvement but i have to say are we comfortable with chinese, rich communist party members or russian oligarchs buying their way into the united states? >> a lot of people feel that way. embracing american opportunity and the american dream contributing to the country, this is a cash transaction. on the other hand i heard a couple people say we had 8 million people come in, many on public assistance.

this is a more rational way to do it. there will be a lot of debate about this and it will be hard to remove it from the broader debate about our messy immigration system the past four years. paul: all right. you don't think this will make a big difference to the deficit, notwithstanding howard lutnick's claim that will bring in trillions? >> it will not make a substantial difference to the debt. it's like elon musk and doge, what he's doing is marginal. they have to address entitlements to get the debt reduced. interesting idea but it is not really the biggest problem on the table. with immigration reform in congress. and in some of these lower wage

where there's a desperate wage. allysia: are most successful ceos and entrepreneurs were immigrants. the ideal goal would be to expand guestworker programs as well as you mentioned lower income workers. paul: the labor shortage, still had, secession is in the air in illinois where a total of 33 counties have voted to leave the land of lincoln. the indiana lawmaker inviting his neighbors to join the hoosier state next. ♪ i've tried sports bras, underwire bras, minimizer bras... ♪ and then out of nowhere, i found a lump.

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paul: fed up with high taxes

and liberal policies, 33 counties have voted since 2022 secede from the land of lincoln including seven and the recent november election. our neighbors to the east rolled out the welcome mat as lawmakers in the house of representatives passed a bill establishing a commission to explore redrawing state lines to absorb those counties. i spoke to todd houston. welcome, good to have you here. what is your pitch to those illinois county citizens? >> it is a simple one, people from illinois have moved to indiana, 33 counties, we are tired of what is going on in illinois, we went to different path, income taxes are less that in illinois, property

taxes are 3 times less, corporate income tax two times less, we balance our budgets, our pensions are fully funded. we have a great economy and great place to raise kids. paul: how would this joined commission work to make the secession joining indiana possible? >> there's a process in place, each state would need to adopt the commission to negotiate these things to work through the specifics, which counties would join to make that happen and the commission would bring recommendations back and improve those recommendations and then need congressional approval. paul: have you had any engagement with your illinois

counterparts that show any comparable interest in putting together such a commission? >> in illinois they filed house bill 1500 which forms a commission in illinois. i had members of the illinois general assembly say they are interested in doing this was a bill has been filed and we hope is given consideration again. 33 counties decided what has taken place today, 1/3 of illinois counties come more than are interested. there is a movement going on over there and we are raising our hand to say we love having you on the hoosier state. paul: would you be interested in a trade to make this more attractive to illinois? around the suburbs of chicago and northwest indiana for other counties that may be more

amenable to your policies? how about that? >> not sure the people in lake county want that. we've seen an influx of people from illinois who have come over and get to these policies. they like what they've seen. they likely lower taxes, economic freedom and all india has to offer. paul: any reaching out you've done saying governor to governor your governor reaching out and saying let's see what we can work out? >> we will go through a process, pass the house and work through the process, the senate and have governor braun sign a bill and hopefully his first action in illinois and hundred thousand folks from

illinois since 2020, we are interested in having you and these conversations one way or the other. paul: what has governor braun said? has he just stayed quiet about it? >> we talked about it. everybody likes the idea of exploring this opportunity. a great opportunity. we had a lot of growth, indiana's gdp since the pandemic is three times illinois. paul: it is astonishing it is that fast. what's behind that? >> a lot of progrowth economic policies. we cut the income state tax. make sure our corporate partners are paying reasonable taxes. we have a regulated environment that's business friendly. it has been prosperous, if you create a really positive business environment, people will expand here and we see

what across the state, not just the illinois border but across the state, governor braun feels the same way, that is what we love to do. we have to take one more break. when we come back, hit and misses of the week. —uh. —here i'll take that. [cheering] ensure max protein, 30 grams protein, 1 gram sugar and a protein blend to feed muscles up to 7 hours. ♪ ♪ empower ♪ hey, i got her a little something. a little something, dad? oh, umm. hi. walt rolled his 401k accounts into an empower ira and it's grown nicely.

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we are without those people that have donated. paul: time now for our hits and misses of the week. kim, first to you. if. >> a miss to rfk jr. for his effect i shrug at the news that a child had died in texas amid if a growing measlings outbreak, suggesting this happens all the time. it doesn't, paul. this is the first child who's died of measles in this country in 22 years for an entirely preventable disease, one that we'd eradicated 20 years ago. its cases are growing because of misinformation. this was a callous and misinformed look from the new new hhs secretary.

paul: joe. >> a hit for jeff bezos and the washington post. the post's opinion section for ages has trended to the left, expect newspaper joined the anti-trump resistance after 2016, but the amazon founder this week announced for now on the post's editorial page is going to champion personal liberties and free market. we at the journal did it first, and we'll still do it best, but it's nice to see a major news outlet offering readers alternative views for a change. paul: all right, joe, thanks. allysia. >> this is a miss to new jersey governor mil murphy who was out -- phil murphy who was complaining about new york's congestion tax on new jersey commuter s. meanwhile, he proposed a slew of new taxes on new jerseyers including a new tax on home sales worth more than $1 million. so so this is an effective tax on leaving new jersey for florida. if new york doesn't get you

coming, new jersey will get you going. paul: all right. dan. >> i'm giving a hit the barnard college which, believe it or not, expelled two students for invading a class room on the history of israel last month and handing out anti-semitic literature. we have to give a miss as a well though to the students who then proceeded to invade a building and protest the the expulsion of the students. cools like barnard should keep kicking out students like this and make room for students who actually want to be, believe it or not, students. paul: and learn something. all right. that's it for this week's show. thanks to my panel and to all of you for watching. i am a paul gigot. hope to see you right here next week. ♪ ♪ jon: more trouble in america's skies. flames erupt from the if engine of a fedex cargo plane after