expected to be 100 protests was expected to be 100 protests and potential riots last night, things were thankfully calmer than inspected expected. however, a labour councillor has been suspended and arrested after saying this last night. you are disgusting, nasty and we need to go that route and get rid of them all. cut their throats. blimey! meanwhile, is your pension safe.7 the chancellor, rachel reeves, is reportedly considering huge reforms to the uk pension system. but what does this mean for you.7 and system. but what does this mean for you? and after interviewing him in may about his inspirational return to parliament after battling sepsis, i'll be speaking to former tory mp craig mackinlay, soon to be known as the bionic peen soon to be known as the bionic peer, as he enters the house of lords by his next step in his story , state of the nation story, state of the nation starts right now .

starts right now. i'll also be joined by my panel gb news senior political commentator nigel nelson, and the journalist and conservative peer paul goodman. in spite of jacob's absence, the email remains the same . send me your remains the same. send me your thoughts to mail, mogg at gb news.com. that's all to come after the latest headlines with cameron walker . cameron walker. >> chris thank you. good evening. it's 8:01 i'm cameron walker here in the gb newsroom. former president trump has agreed to debate vice president harris on television in the race to the white house. during a press conference at his mar a lago home in florida, donald trump confirmed he was willing to take part in several debates on different networks in the run up to november's presidential election. the republican candidate said he was awaiting a response from democrat kamala

harris's campaign, warning there are dark times ahead, a lot of bad things coming up. >> you could end up in a depression of the 1929 variety, which would be a devastating thing. took many years, took decades to recover from it, and we're very close to that, and we're very close to that, and we're very close to that, and we're very close to a world war, in my opinion. we're very close to a world war. we have people that don't know how to handle it . that don't know how to handle it. they're not respected all over the world. >> they're laughed at the final child injured in the southport stabbings has been discharged from hospital and will continue her recovery at home, to according merseyside police. six year old bebe king, nine year old alice alice dasilva aguiar and seven year old elsie dot stancombe died after a mass stabbing at a taylor swift themed dance class in the seaside town last month. the family of the injured victim, discharged today, expressed gratitude to the royal manchester children's hospital for its support and care during what they called this challenging time . meanwhile,

challenging time. meanwhile, detectives have issued images of 11 more people who may have information following the rioting in merseyside. police say members of the public contacted the police, naming people they recognised from yesterday's separate photo appeal, which included images of 14 other people. merseyside police have now charged 17 individuals, seven of whom have already been jailed. they're asking the public to contact them directly or crime stoppers anonymously, if they recognise any of the people pictured here in london tonight . the prime in london tonight. the prime minister has chaired another cobra meeting with law enforcement officials to reflect on last night and plan for the coming days. the third high level gathering of its kind . in level gathering of its kind. in the last week he has joined. he was joined by senior ministers, including the home secretary , including the home secretary, yvette yvette cooper, who says the ramped up police response to potential further riots would continue and suggested it was having an impact on stemming days of disorder. police had

expected more than 100 events and deployed thousands of officers last night. the prime minister also said earlier today the additional police presence is having an effect. >> most important lesson is for those involving themselves in disorder because what we've seen is that those that are being arrested now numbered in their hundreds, many have been charged, some already in court, and now a number of individuals sentenced to terms of imprisonment. that is a very important message to those involved in disorder. >> a suspended labour councillor has been arrested after footage emerged of him online in which he allegedly incited the murder of anti—immigration protesters, met police officers say they arrested a man in his 50s at an address in south—east london under the public order act. he is in custody at south london police station. a labour party spokesperson previously told gb news his alleged actions are completely unacceptable and it will not be tolerated . a second will not be tolerated. a second

greater manchester police officer is under criminal investigation for assault after an incident at manchester airport last month. it comes after a video emerged of a man appearing to be kicked and punched by a police officer inside a terminal building. the independent police watchdog had previously announced a constable was under a criminal investigation, but says it has since received further referral of a complaint. the second officer is also being investigated for potential gross misconduct for alleged breaches of police professional standards, including use of force and finally , great force and finally, great britain's ellie aldridge has become the first ever olympic gold medallist in kite surfing at today's events in marseille. the discipline, which sees competitors fly above the water at up to 40 knots, powered by huge kites, is making its games debut this year. 27 year old aldridge, from dorset , powered aldridge, from dorset, powered her way to gold by winning both races in the final series today, with. those are your latest gb

news headlines. for now, i'm karen walker . news headlines. for now, i'm karen walker. now it's news headlines. for now, i'm karen walker . now it's back to karen walker. now it's back to chris for the very latest gb news direct to your smartphone, sign up to news alerts by scanning the qr code or go to gbnews.com forward slash alerts . gbnews.com forward slash alerts. >> welcome back to state of the nation. i'm not jacob rees—mogg , nation. i'm not jacob rees—mogg, i'm christopher hope, gb news political editor. it's been ten days since the southport stabbings . we've seen protests, stabbings. we've seen protests, riots and counter—protests all across the country . last night, across the country. last night, police were anticipating as many as 100 protests. as we know, the expected disorder didn't take place. thankfully instead, we saw huge counter—protests in places like walthamstow in east london, aldershot in hampshire and in bristol in the west of england . ultimately, it seemed england. ultimately, it seemed as though there was little to protest against for the anti—fascist protesters. but

anti —fascist protesters. but we're anti—fascist protesters. but we're becoming more of that in a moment. prime minister sir keir starmer pledged to continue supporting law enforcement efforts when asked about whether it was time to address underlying concerns about mass migration. >> the first priority is safety and security of our communities. i was very keen that we were able to demonstrate that if you're involved in disorder, within days you'll be in the criminal justice system and some people starting long terms of imprisonment that needs to continue. and so that is my sole focus. >> now. sir keir starmer has faced allegations of two tier policing in recent days. i put this to the senior labour minister, nick thomas—symonds, last night on this programme . last night on this programme. >> don't accept the idea of two tier policing. i don't accept the idea of two tier sentencing. you break the law, you face the consequences. that's the rule of law we have in this country. and what the government is saying today is anyone thinking of

going out and committing violent offences. you will feel the full force of that law just now. >> my first guest tonight is dan hodges , a senior political hodges, a senior political journalist on the daily mail and the mail on sunday. and he's said today in the daily mail that the only way to reclaim our streets is by being tough on the causes of extremism. dan hodges, welcome to the to the show. do you think labour is right to say it's a far right issue, or is the problem or concern about migration if that's what it is deeper than that? >> yeah, i mean labour is definitely right to say it's a far right issue. i mean , the far right issue. i mean, the vast bulk of the violence we've, we've seen not the entirety, but the vast bulk of it has quite clearly been organised by, by the far right. i mean, i've spoken to labour ministers, i've spoken to labour ministers, i've spoken to labour ministers, i've spoken to previous ministers in the previous administration, conservative administration, and they all they all agree on that. but as i said in the piece today, it's not simply a question of tackling , of

question of tackling, of addressing the far right in law and order terms, although obviously that's very, very important. we have to also address the things that give rise to the far right, give succour to the far right and give oxygen to the far right. and as i said, to use that old sort of tony blair sort of tony blair phrase, we've got to be we've got to be tough on far right extremism and tough on the causes of far right extremism. >> we've heard for a while now from the police. they've been concerned about it for a while, haven't they, do you think laboun haven't they, do you think labour, get it, get the concern about migration on the streets, get the concern about the last government's policy of putting migrants in hotels. that was a flashpoint , and are they willing flashpoint, and are they willing to learn and to listen at some point right now, they're just trying to keep the streets safe. we get that? yeah. >> no, they they definitely get it. i mean, again, i was i was speaking to labour advisers today who, who were, who were making that point. and actually, if you see right from the beginning, i mean, even in the queen's speech, labour and keir starmer have put measures tackling immigration,

particularly tackling illegal immigration, have put that at the heart of the queen's speech . the heart of the queen's speech. this is definitely something that they understand. but what they've been absolutely sort of say very keen that absolutely clear about is that they've had to firstly get to a get to grips with the issue in law and order terms. and secondly, be clear that they don't give any suggestion or any succour to those going out onto the streets that in any way what the violence or the disorder is, is any way, any way legitimate. but but i think you're absolutely right. i think moving forward now, once we once law and order is restored, then, as i say, we are going to have to start to look at some of the underlying causes. but i do think labour ministers recognise that now, whether or not they can come up with a policy prescriptions to deal with, it is obviously a separate issue. >> we so far the keir starmer is have played into his hands. he's a former top prosecutor in a country. he knows how to get the cps working , watching people cps working, watching people being jailed so rapidly, days

after the violence has been extraordinary. it may it may have contributed to last night's, no riots last night, which is great news. i mean, the, the real challenge for him is the political challenge, which he's less certain on. >> yeah. i mean, there are a number of issues. i mean, as i say in the piece today, i mean, the number of issues, one is obviously the fact that we've seen the way that social media has been utilised. i mean, first, in terms of spreading, spreading propaganda , but also spreading propaganda, but also literally in terms of moving, moving people around in terms of in terms of the rioting on the ground. one of the things the police have been very alarmed aboutis police have been very alarmed about is the way that the rioters have used social media to, in a sense, to stay one step ahead of some of the policing efforts, especially initially. so that's one of the things they're going to have to look about. they're going to have to look about . the other thing, frankly, about. the other thing, frankly, that's going to have to be addressed is there is a there is addressed is there is a there is a in my view, there is a social inequality element to this. if you look at where the riots have been taking place, they are

frankly within white working class, primarily within white working class communities where there are issues of serious social deprivation that's going to have to be addressed. and the third issue, obviously, is the underlying tensions that there are in relation to immigration. now, labour, obviously, one of the first policies was to scrap the first policies was to scrap the rwanda. rwanda scheme. labour ministers say that's because it was very expensive and wasn't wasn't working. but the question was a deterrent though. >> possibly. well it wasn't ireland. >> well that's the thing i mean i mean that labour ministers argument, i think not necessarily unfairly, was it wasn't much of a deterrent because we hadn't managed to get a single person back to back to rwanda. but that's one of the key policy areas that keir starmer is going to have to address. and by far, i think the trickiest one. >> and have they got the answers on immigration? they're looking at i think has the multiple occupation possibly operations scatters being talked about instead of hotels putting, asylum seekers into into the community more than they are at the moment. yeah. >> i mean, i know some people are quite concerned about about that policy, but i think i think

the key thing is, you know, it is going to come down to whether or not keir starmer and yvette cooper can get to grips with the small, small boats issue. i mean, that's the that's the biggest number one issue. now, we've obviously seen the biggest but the most significant , it's but the most significant, it's only i think it's the biggest compared to 100,000 arrived i think i think it's the biggest in political terms. and i think it's the biggest in terms of the underlying discontent that we see, not discontent from the rioters. we can, we can, we can forget them. but you know, the ordinary, law abiding british, the offer who would have nothing to do with the rioting. but there is real concern, the offer from this country is get come across the channel and get put up in a hotel. >> i mean, it is not hard to understand why it's appealing to come here. >> yeah, i think i think it's slightly more complicated than that. but that chris, i mean, i think it's, it's, you know, people are people are coming here, they're claiming asylum and they have to be they have to be housed whilst, whilst. yes. you know, and obviously we have that we have slip and slide, we have the significant we obviously have the significant backlog which, which yvette cooper and keir starmer have inherited. but but to come back to the point you're absolutely right. the key for labour is

they've , they've done away with they've, they've done away with they've, they've done away with the rwanda scheme. they've said it's not working . keir starmer it's not working. keir starmer has his own plan which is obviously centred around smashing the smashing the criminal gangs. the question will be obviously they've only beenin will be obviously they've only been in four weeks when they've been in four weeks when they've beenin been in four weeks when they've been in four weeks when they've been in four months a year, two years. will their policy have worked if it has, they'll get huge political credit for it. if they haven't , then it's going to they haven't, then it's going to become a very, very serious political problem. >> so far. maybe sir keir starmer has passed this test and it was a severe test on his authority in the country. >> yeah, i think it was so far. yeah. it was exactly. obviously we'll have to see how things play we'll have to see how things play out over the weekend. but it was being framed as his first test and you touched on it. i certainly think that the fast tracking of the sentences and the sort of the exemplary sentencing that we've put through, i think that did probably have some sort of impact yesterday. and i think that's to keir starmer's credit. yeah. >> dan hodges, mel stride economist. thank you forjoining economist. thank you for joining us today. and do stay with us in a moment. we'll be discussing the suspended labour councillor

who called for the throats of the far right to be cut last night. stay tuned

welcome back to state of the nafion welcome back to state of the nation with me, christopher hope. we've been discussing the riots and protests across the country, and you've been getting in touch with your views. clifford says . do you think that clifford says. do you think that keir starmer is going to have problems with the european convention on human rights regarding these changes? does this process allow the accused to plan a proper defence as the speeded up justice we discussed with dan hodges and is a sentencing a knee jerk process rather than political action? we appear to be sleepwalking into a police state, apparently directed and controlled by the government, mike says. the very termed the very term used by keir starmer are communities

indicates that our multiculturalism has failed. we are no longer one society, but a disparate group of series of disparate group of series of disparate groups who often do not find co—existence to their liking. there are considerable dangers ahead , and the iron fist dangers ahead, and the iron fist is not the answer. now, thankfully, the scenes we saw last night did not live up to the police's concerns, with barely a quarter of 160 protests planned taking place. instead, we saw a number of counter—protests everywhere from anti—fascist demonstrators across the country. however, more could take place tonight. gb news revealed earlier today that a labour councillor, ricky jones, councillor for dartford, has been suspended by his party following these remarks at a supposedly anti—fascist protest . supposedly anti—fascist protest. >> we've got children and women using those trains, destroying the morality . the morality. >> they are disgusting. nothing matters and we need all the roads and get rid of . all. i

roads and get rid of. all. i just want to say thank you all. believe me now . believe me now. >> and three, three, three, three free palestine. we palestine. thank you. god bless you . you. >> so after saying that, ricky jones says god bless you all. a labour spokesman said this behaviour is completely unacceptable and will not be tolerated. the councillor has been suspended from the party now. the man was subsequently arrested. i'm joined now by my panel arrested. i'm joined now by my panel. gb news, senior political commentator nigel nelson and the journalist and conservative peer paul goodman, and nigel nelson to you first. labour was quick to you first. labour was quick to act on that. weren't they? >> yes, they were, and absolutely right. there's been too many allegations about two tier policing, two tier care, that kind of thing. it was important the moment that something like this happens, they clamp down on it immediately and the police are of the same thing that they've arrested him now. and we'll see

what happens next. >> yeah, i worry though, paul goodman, i mean, you've got, you know , it's all sides saying know, it's all sides saying these things. and when you hear from sir keir starmer talking about the far right and violence , about the far right and violence, thatis about the far right and violence, that is frustrating to some people. i think the authorities will have been very keen to dispel this two tier policing claim, in which many people, not just in the far right, think there's something in it for a variety of reasons. >> so they went in in this case, what struck me about it as really extraordinary and quite worrying was this chanting of free, free palestine. you might ask, what on earth has the palestine issue got to do with violence here committed by the far right or the far left, or by those dreadful killings in southport? >> nothing to do, as far as we know with palestine. >> so as far as we know there is two levels to all this. there's the criminality, which simply must be cracked down when it's committed by anyone. and i think the government so far have done a halfway decent job on it. but then there's this tangled question of the causes, and it's

deeply worrying to me to think of a future where you're going to have far right gangs wandering around in a dangerous way and doing deadly things, and islamist gangs doing the same . islamist gangs doing the same. >> that's right, isn't it? i mean, don't you think nigel nelson, the government's got to recognise there is violence on both sides? well, i mean , the both sides? well, i mean, the attacks on a mosque were clearly by the far right. yeah we've seen also videos elsewhere in birmingham this week, haven't we? we have. >> and there was violence there. but i mean nothing like the degree of it. what we're talking about here is the worst riots since 2011, so it is perfectly right for keir starmer to crack down on that. he must deal with the with the rioters themselves , the with the rioters themselves, stop it in its tracks, and so you can't make comparisons with, say, the pro—palestinian marches. they haven't torn say, the pro—palestinian marches. they haven't tom the country apart. black lives matter didn't cause the same kind of mayhem that these people are. they're the ones we must focus on. hopefully things are dying down, but we won't know

till the weekend comes whether they actually have. >> back in 2011, 3000 arrests so far, 500. so we're barely a sixth of where we went to, thank goodness, in 2011 2000, facing criminal charges back in 2011. what's happening here paul goodman, is there a are people testing out the authority of a new government? are they concerned about the axing of the rwanda plan? what's labour's answer on migration? what is happening or are we being too intellectual about it? >> we don't know yet whether this is simply a summer riot that will vanish, which is basically what happened to the 2011 riots. i mean, after, after, after after after that, after, after after after that, after that, you know, nothing for as you say, it's triggered by killing. and, you know, a horrible business at that. we don't know whether the violence will die away or whether it's going to come back in one form or another. i'm not very optimistic, and i don't entirely agree with what nigel has just said. now, of course, the violence has been largely from

the far right, but there has been some from the far left just smashing up, for example, of barclays bank well—attested and you've had the presence of those hizbut tahrir protesters. talking in very openly, flagrantly anti—semitic terms on the pro—palestinian marches in london. so the potential for violence isn't just one way. and it's very important for the government to be clearly against it wherever it comes from. >> so , nigel, people are >> so, nigel, people are conflating different ideas, aren't they? >> yeah, they are basically. yeah.i >> yeah, they are basically. yeah. i mean, that's what i mean. let's take this in stages. and the first stage surely must to be clamp down on the far right protesters who have launched a campaign of street violence. that's that's stage one, then we'll deal with the other things along the way, which i think the first stage is to make it clear that no violence would be acceptable for wherever it comes from. >> now, it happens that most of the people involved in the riots, the vast majority, have been far right, so they must be clamped down on there's no question about that. but when there's thuggery and violence

from the other side and there has been some of that, that must be true. >> absolutely. i mean, the whole thing is it's there shouldn't be a two tier policing, it should be equal on both sides. the point i'm making is that it's the far right which are causing the far right which are causing the majority of the mayhem at the majority of the mayhem at the moment. yeah. >> okay. listen, let me move on now. now, sharing of online footage of the rioting could be a criminal offence. according to the head of the crown prosecution service, stephen parkinson, the director of pubuc parkinson, the director of public prosecutions. of course, the prime minister was previously a dpp. he said that if any of the footage is found to incite racial hatred, then those who share it could be breaking the law. dedicated police officers will be scouring social media. mr parkinson said. let's have a listen to the offence of incitement to racial hatred involves publishing or distributing material which is insulting or abusive, which is intended to, or likely to start racial hatred. >> so if you retweet that, then

you're republishing that and then potentially you're committing that offence . and we committing that offence. and we do have dedicated police officers who are scouring social media their job is to look for this material and then follow up with identification, arrests and so forth . so forth. >> so with me is nigel nelson and paul goodman. lauryn goodman paul goodman. you're a legislator. you're in the house of lords. are you comfortable with that kind of thing about the idea of retweeting? could could give you a criminal? criminal? >> i think it's possible to get far too complicated and difficult about this . there are difficult about this. there are laws against inciting racial hatred. you shouldn't incite violence if you do it on social media. as anywhere else. you're breaking the law. end of story. >> but but , breaking the law. end of story. >> but but, but so just retweeting or and some people retweeting or and some people retweet by mistake . they're retweet by mistake. they're reading a tweet or i forgive me, using social media terms, but they're reading the message and they're reading the message and they by mistake, push a button. that's something the authorities should look at when they're investigating the case. >> but i don't think there's some sort of magic about social media that insulates it from the incitement of violence. if you incitement of violence. if you

incite violence, you're inciting violence. >> yeah, i agree with every word of that, that, people don't don't understand that when they post on social media, they're not chatting to a mate. they're publishing, they're publishing, they're publishing the same laws of publishing, apply. i mean , a of publishing, apply. i mean, a labour mp today, lauren edwards, has just fallen foul of that where she puts some offensive tweets up ten years ago now, has to apologise for it profusely. >> 15 years ago, a long time ago, oh 15 years ago. >> but anyway. but a long time ago. but she still has to apologise for it. point really, this is not an attack on free speech. free speech must be used responsibly and we have laws to control free speech. you can't use it as a cover for anti—semitism, for islamophobia. we have contempt of court laws to ensure fair trials, libel laws to stop people being defamed. so on that basis, free speech always has some restrictions on it and it is not absolute. >> elon musk has got involved with it with those remarks by stephen parkinson, hasn't he? and said seriously?

>> well, well he has. and i think this reinforces without becoming a kind of echo chamber on the panel, this reinforces the point nigel is making. i mean, twitter together with whatsapp groups and tiktok and quite why we allow tiktok to operate as it does. i don't know, twitter has been quite chinese owned, chinese owned, twitter has been or x, as it now is, has played an extraordinary part in the last week because musk's philosophy is just basically that anything goes and that sounds great. free speech. who's against free speech? but when it comes to crosses, the line and you're inciting violence, which you're not allowed to do in any context, then you're in very dangerous territory. i think that's what's happening here. >> taking a step back, nigel nelson, the way that the courts have processed prosecutions and we have people in jail for trouble in the past week has beenit trouble in the past week has been it appears to have been effective. so far. it worked. it may have worked to dispel violence yesterday. this is a kind of a place where the pm. keir starmer is comfortable. he knows how the cps works. the former dpp he's done okay so far

has he. yeah i don't know nine days, ten days into this i'd have thought he has. >> and i think we have to be careful by, by suggesting that what that what didn't happen last night is to do is to do with that. the idea that they could have hit 100 places seems to me overly ambitious, and a bit of a sort of feint attack, frankly. so until the weekend comes, we don't know whether we're actually on the home straight yet. but yes, as far as what keir starmer said he would do, he's done. he's done the stuff he can do. yeah, he's he's putting people in jail. he's putting people in jail. he's putting them in jail quickly. that's how he how he started out. and that should be the first stage. the urgency of this is to stop people rioting. that's the best way to do it. >> but the political challenge, which you might find harder for him is the causes. how do you deal with why this ? deal with why this? >> i'm a bit worried about a pension effect, but only a few days ago the general cry was the far right are on the march they're coming to, you know, take us all in our beds. there's nothing that can be done to stop them today because of what

happened last night. it's. they're a paper tiger. nobody really supports them . it's all really supports them. it's all oven really supports them. it's all over. you swing from one to the other, and the government, whoever it is, has got a very difficult job treading a line in the middle and making sure that those who break the law are punished without fear or favour. that's right. >> well, paul goodman and nigel nelson, thank you. thanks to my panel next we'll be discussing the future of your pensions. will it be safe under the new labour government? find out in a moment

welcome back to state of the nafion welcome back to state of the nation with me. christopher hope, gb news political editor. we've been discussing the government's response to the riots of the killings of three children in southport last week. and you've been getting in touch with your views. ian takes issue with your views. ian takes issue with me. he says about me, you keep saying tweets, am i a luddhe keep saying tweets, am i a luddite or just failing to keep

up with modernity? it's x for goodness sake. well, ian's not blowing me a kiss. it's called x twitter. but i would say that not the entire, not the entire world knows what a tweet is. but perhaps that's just me. ian john says chris can't help wondering if the number of suspected protests were accurate. he thinks the number was inflated to make it look as though the government and police had quelled the rebellion. if not, then the intelligence was extremely poor, which is worrying. now moving on. the chancellor of exchequer, rachel reeves , is in north america, and reeves, is in north america, and she's indicated that there may be a big change to come to the pension system . on a visit pension system. on a visit there, she met with canadian pension bosses amid talk of her plans to try and overhaul what we do with pensions. so what do they do differently across the pond, in short, and bear with me. public sector pensions can be amalgamated, consolidated into bigger funds that are then

invested in assets like gas networks, airports and shopping centres . so networks, airports and shopping centres. so big companies invest in public infrastructure and get a return back. and it's a safe way of putting pension money aside. is this what we need to get britain building again? i'm still joined by my panel here in the studio. gb news, senior political commentator nigel nelson and the journalist and tory peer paul goodman . nigel, tory peer paul goodman. nigel, to you first, you've been around the houses longer than me in politics and i've heard this side, this idea going back some years. it makes it a bit of sense. >> yeah. it's been i mean, it has been going on for some time that jeremy hunt was looking at it prior to that, rishi sunak looked at the george osborne, i'm sure did it. yeah. i'm not sure about george osborne, but certainly rishi did after covid and the idea was to get the money into the long term asset fund, which would build things like hs2 and the third runway at heathrow, neither of which, of course, seemed to be happening, the idea of this is the way the canadians do it is that they, they invest rather in stocks and shares. they invest in private

companies . so one of the, companies. so one of the, teaching pension funds in canada owns 25% of the british energy giant sse, another one is a big investor in thames water. >> so they go private companies are they. >> yeah. so some some companies do. well thames water clearly is not doing well . the key to not doing well. the key to a pension fund is it must be there to give a give a decent retirement to existing pensioners and future ones. and what rachel reeves has to actually sort out is to make sure that you get that return. and the big question is if the return from investing in infrastructure is so great, why aren't they doing it now? >> paul goodman is this a way of getting bridges built without the state paying for it? i mean, the state paying for it? i mean, the question that your viewers will want to know if they've got a public sector pension is will my pension be better invested under these plans or not? >> and nigel has put his finger on the point, which is you don't know. so it sounds great. take british pension money, put it all together into building

british things . banks, all of british things. banks, all of all of that. well, well, quite sounds great. but what happens if the return is not as great or worse? if your airport project or your infrastructure project goes bust, what happens to your pension money then? and this is why i suspect you know jeremy hunt and previous chancellors have looked at this with enthusiasm and then kind of rubbed their chins and thought , rubbed their chins and thought, oh, this is a bit tricky. so we now have to see if rachel reeves can do a betterjob than they did. >> the one with pensions is it's quite it's a live rail in politics. right now, isn't it? after the government decided to remove, i think, to go after pensioners and the and the absolutely the warm winter fuel. yeah. >> so we'll have to see if she actually carries that out. >> but the pensioners feel a bit under fire. i think. yes. the government and that's why i think that's what's happening here. that's why people are leaving on it. >> yes. i mean the idea of using huge pension funds, i mean, in this case, we're talking about the local government schemes. now, if you take them collectively that is the biggest pension fund in this country. i

think seventh biggest in the world. so it's a huge amount of money, and if you can actually use that for infrastructure project projects, the wind farms and the and the solar farms that rachel reeves wants to build, that could actually help economic growth. but but your point and paul's point is absolutely right. the most important thing is the pensions themselves have got to be safe . themselves have got to be safe. iused themselves have got to be safe. i used to work for robert maxwell. he nicked my pension. so i know what it feels like to lose. that was it was not funny. >> no, not at all. i mean, some of these pension funds in investing, in shopping centres, many of which are now going bust around the country. so. and that's, that's the danger. >> i mean, the thatcher philosophy, which is very much contested now, was if you had funds, you invested them where you got the best return, even if it was abroad. and that's what's being contested. is it better abroad or better here? just sort of. finally, i think you made a very good point about the context of the government's approach to pensioners, because no one can quite work out why they did this thing about the winter fuel payment now, rather than in their financial statement in the autumn.

>> no, nigel, it appears like they made a choice, didn't they, last monday, when you give pubuc last monday, when you give public sector workers a £10 billion pay rise and take money off of pensions, and that's how it looks. the politics of the presentation . presentation. >> i was really surprised about it. i was really surprised she did what she did. i'm assuming that she desperately needed that money. 1.5 billion this year, 1.7 next year, the point what? somebody like ros altmann, the previous pension minister, would say is what you could do is increase the state pension by that £300 of the winter fuel allowance and tax it . and so allowance and tax it. and so better off pensioners would then better off pensioners would then be paying tax on it and you'd get you'd recoup your money that way you wouldn't get as much of course labour figures. >> i think darren jones has said something like it wasn't going to happen in opposition, hasn't he? >> i mean, well, you know, parties in opposition say all sorts of things when they're in government . extraordinary. this government. extraordinary. this never dreamt it was there for a moment. and of course it is a way just this year to be fair, in 2000 you've got to be creative isn't she?

>> i mean, she's in america right now. she's got a budget in early october. she's got to find new ways to. >> and with pensions. i mean, i don't think, for instance, the triple lock is going to last forever. it sounds like it'll last. the term of this government . but i don't know government. but i don't know what would happen in the next five years. at the moment, it just seems to be the cost of it is so huge and at times it's not justifiable. so getting rid of the 2.5% guarantee might be the way round it. >> by keeping pension a double lock . lock. >> yeah. so earnings and inflation the pensions would always get the higher of those two. but you'd forget about the 2.5%. >> you're going you're going to go somewhere there eventually . go somewhere there eventually. >> yes paul goodman nigel nelson, thank you again. and thanks to my panel. up next, i'll be catching up with westminster's new bionic lord, craig mackinlay, who's kindly joined me on my podcast to discuss his recent and his plans for the future. stay

welcome back to state of the nafion welcome back to state of the nation . we've been discussing nation. we've been discussing how your pensions could be used to get the economy motoring, and you've been getting in touch with your views, linda says, can somebody tell nigel nelson there's no teachers pension fund to invest? it comes from present teachers and goes out to retired teachers, apparently. >> nigel, that's an ontario. i was talking about. >> he's right. thank you. very good. and bridget says investing in private sector is not secure. i'm a pensioner who will lose their heating allowance. don't trust labour with our money. they lied in the electoral election mandate. i worked from ages 17 to 77. well, bridget, well done. and thank you. now, back in may, i interviewed craig mckinney, then a tory mp on gb news. he opened up about his battle with sepsis , which battle with sepsis, which resulted in a quadruple amputation of both his arms and both his legs. but craig's story was ultimately one of resilience and inspiration. we discussed his road to recovery and the

incredible support of his wife, katie, and when the general election was called, craig decided to fight that fighting for his seat was too difficult in such a short time frame. he, since been granted a peerage. i caught up with him today to discuss his next challenge as the bionic lord. craig mackinlay. welcome to chopper's political podcast, how are you ? political podcast, how are you? >> i'm pretty good. really. all things considered, having, lost four of my limbs, arms and legs to sepsis, at the end of last yeah to sepsis, at the end of last year. but, yeah, we're up and running, unfortunately, didn't feel well enough to fight the election. as you know, but, you know, life brings you different turns. and this, in my view, is another chapter. and i'm going to make the most of it. absolutely, absolutely. >> and we last met didn't we, on the day that rishi sunak called that election that i certainly was not expecting and many people weren't , including people weren't, including yourself, i think because you had hoped to fight a november general election. but frankly, july was too soon after. what happened to you last last year? >> yeah , very much so. i mean,

>> yeah, very much so. i mean, it would be a tough election as it would be a tough election as it as it would have been. mine would have been classed as a marginal seat. it would have had to be one of those elections. you've really got to fight tooth and nail for. and it is not an easy task running elections. and, you know, realistically, even being an mp, even if you were lucky enough to get re—elected, it's not an easy job. we're talking 80, 90 hour week of work, constituency work and all the rest of it. i may have been kidding myself that i'd have been ready in november, but the ball would have been in my court to give it a little bit more time to consider it. and it would have been nice to have had those few months in parliament to pursue, some of the issues of prosthetics, provision within the nhs, which, frankly, my view is pretty poor at the moment. and, and raising awareness of sepsis, it would've given me a few more months as an mp to do that. but as you know, i'm going to a different place, so my voice will still be heard. >> we'll come to that in a second. you're your party lost your seat, didn't they? in the election, even though you did some some door knocking with your prosthetic arms ? your prosthetic arms? >> yes they did. i mean, we had a pretty adverse boundary

change. i never quite understood why the boundary change was necessary, but i know there's probably lots of, mps feel that, you know, we lost the sandwich bit in the villages and gained a lump of margate. so it was an adverse boundary change in terms of, you know , what it should be. of, you know, what it should be. but yes, we did lose it and lost it. i'm afraid, fairly heavily, a big reform vote, we came second and reform were third, but obviously as as in many places, the reform vote plus conservative would have been enough to get it over the line on the assumption that all reform voters are, you know, shy voters, as it were, which is not always quite the truth. but yeah, reform had a big role to play yeah, reform had a big role to play , there was a new candidate, play, there was a new candidate, no incumbency, all of that sort of stuff . perhaps i'd have got of stuff. perhaps i'd have got it over the line. but, you know, perhaps that's wishful thinking as well. but. yeah we'll never know. that is the sliding doors moment when you were an mp. >> of course. you chair the net zero scrutiny group that i imagine has been wound up now. i mean, there's only there's a barely a rump of, of mps left. you can get them onto a couple of large buses now, can't you?

compared to where you were before the election. >> yeah. it is a shame we did lose a lot of very good colleagues that were obviously very strong on the net zero, argument net zero scrutiny. group members and of course, erg members, often went hand in hand what i'd call the, you know, the right thinking core of the conservative party. but no, the net zero scrutiny group will continue. we had a number of peers in it before, and i intend it to continue, and perhaps even standing up with some external funding if we can find it as a proper, proper group to actually tell the story to new parliamentarians about why the current thinking is so woolly and so wrong and so costly, and there's a better way of doing all this. >> well, certainly it's going to be quite a dash for green. you've been following the riots since the dreadful killings in southport last week. craig mckinley, are you comfortable about the blame on the far right? a lot of viewers, listeners to gb news are concerned about the idea that the government's been willing to say it's just a far right, and it almost says if you're worried

about immigration, it's a far right issue. and of course, as we know, it's a wider issue and a deeper issue than just one held by by some some thugs on the far right . the far right. >> well, i mean, if the far right are that good at organising things, then they're far better at organising things than any political party or government that i know in the uk. so i, i actually don't believe, fully. i mean, there's always going to be some nutters and they should be dealt with very robustly and they should be in prison where appropriate. i'm fully in favour of all of that. but if you look at some of these, you know, rallies that are going on, there are lots of couples on these rallies that you'd expect to go and see in the dog and dunk dog and duck on a friday afternoon . these are a friday afternoon. these are normal people. and i think what happened with southport, southport, it's sort of culminated what i feel is a deep malaise in this country , a deep malaise in this country, a deep worry. and it sort of brought it together in an unexpected way. and i'm afraid that's how things often happen. you know, it's like the, the butterfly wings in, in brazil create a storm in, in, in brazil create a storm in, in africa, you know, this is

almost one of those moments where i think a lot of people have said, forget what the southport was actually all about. it actually made people rather annoyed about the state of britain today. >> yeah. so, craig mckinney, you're saying there that it's not really a far right issue to be worried about immigration? look at the numbers who flocked to reform uk. but isn't this a this government has been now for a month. i mean, maybe if they've had a slightly stuttering response to it in in messaging , stuttering response to it in in messaging, all the problems were laid for them by the tory government with these hotels where migrants were being housed and the like, and allowing such large numbers to come through through the front door legally as migrants, as much as illegally . illegally. >> yeah. well, you've got two bases there. yeah, we've got the boats. the illegal migration, and then you've got the enormous numbers of legal migration that's on your party. craig. i know it is, and i'm not proud of it. i've never supported it, and i've been very robustly against all of these, these vast numbers that have been coming in. i

mean, i made a very easy connection . we have got 9.4 connection. we have got 9.4 million people in this country who are of working age, who are economically inactive. i mean, surely we've got a pool of workers available domestically to actually fill the jobs that are available. we've got to we've still got a very buoyant economy. >> but even the cuts proposed by the tory government in manifesto were just marginal cuts at the returning the country to 29 2019 levels. >> i mean, i'm sorry because i'm not going to i'm not going to defend the outgoing government on their, on what they did on dwp or immigration. >> do you think this labour government has got it in it to do the cuts to welfare required that you're describing? >> well, they've done a very strange cut to welfare haven't they. i mean this cutting of, 10 million pensioners from their 200 or £300, winter fuel allowance, is a very bizarre move. and you would think with their political head on, it's perhaps not the demographic of people often at the they can't do anything to improve their lot

in terms of extra work over time or anything else. >> i've got to ask you about brexit as one of the 28 spartan tory mps who oppose all iterations of theresa may's brexit deal, is brexit under threat? it worries me greatly, actually. >> i mean, you've got to worry about keir starmer himself when he was the shadow, europe secretary, in in opposition. i mean , he opposed everything to mean, he opposed everything to do with brexit. did everything they possibly could to frustrate it stop it and everything else. i don't think he has changed at all. but what was very worrying just last week was the abolition of the european scrutiny committee, the one that i sat on for many years with sir bill cash, sir bill cash had been on it, i think, since he'd been in parliament. it had been in place since 1973 to actually scrutinise what was coming through the door from brussels. >> craig mckinley, it's to great see you looking so well, sounding so well, and we can't wait to see you back in parliament in the middle of october. thanks for joining parliament in the middle of october. thanks forjoining us today on chopper's political podcast. thank you. thank you . podcast. thank you. thank you. the rather inspirational craig

mckinley. soon lord mckinley there talking to me from my podcast chopper's political podcast, out tomorrow morning. that's all from me. up next is my pal patrick christys patrick. what's going to come up in your show? >> well, we've got a heck of a lot on tonight. so keir starmer said he'd smashed the gangs repeatedly didn't he. we've got an exclusive tonight right at the start of the show in a few minutes time, which actually shows that violent gangs are now in charge of the calais beaches . in charge of the calais beaches. are we being told the full story about last night's demonstrations as well, or is there something a little bit weird going on? we're going to be getting stuck into that. the manchester airport incident? well, the police are now investigating another officer. well, i think that's raises serious questions over two tier policing the isis threat. is it back. did it ever go away? taylor swift has had to cancel a few concerts in vienna. but she is coming here this month to do some more concerts here. so how worried or otherwise should we be? and banksy, he didn't last long in peckham, christopher, but i think anyone could have told him that. >> splendid patrick that's coming up after the weather with annie shuttleworth.

>> i've been presenting state of the nation with my friend jacob rees—mogg. he's back on monday at 8 pm. do tune in. you won't want to miss it. thank you for tuning in. it's been great to be here, for the last couple of days. and hopefully i'll be back here with you again soon. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar, sponsors of weather on gb news >> good evening. welcome to your latest gb news weather update brought to you from the met office . the grey weather will office. the grey weather will unger office. the grey weather will linger across the south. first thing tomorrow, but in general it's looking much brighter as we head into friday. that's because a cold front will clear through the country overnight tonight and into tomorrow morning, introducing fresher air. but before then we've still got the milder humid air through the rest of this evening and overnight. so quite a close night to come . persistent rain night to come. persistent rain still continuing through this evening across north eastern areas, but that will linger across the south and east until

friday morning, making for a fairly grey start here tomorrow morning. temperatures already in the high teens as well, slightly fresher further for north much of northern ireland and scotland. and here there will be plenty of sunshine or more in the way of sunshine compared to today at least. still a few showers, though potentially some heavier ones affecting the northern isles. first thing tomorrow they could push into parts of south of western scotland as well, but it does look like it will remain largely dry across northern ireland. eastern areas of scotland, the south—east as well. northeastern england not looking too bad, as well as wales and the south—west. plenty of sunshine first thing, and it's going to be turning much brighter across the south—east towards lunchtime as well. once that rain does clear away. so certainly a brighter day to come tomorrow and it will feel fairly warm in the sunshine as well . however, the sunshine as well. however, across the far north that's where we've got a bit of a breeze and this risk of showers through the day. so here still that fresher feel temperatures in the mid—teens, but further south were towards the mid 20s. so not feeling too bad,

especially where the winds remain light. now the change on the way as we head into the weekend, another band of rain arrives across parts of england and wales, bringing outbreaks of rain showers continuing across scotland, but it will brighten up for many areas into the afternoon and again feeling fairly warm in the sunshine too. but it's sunday and monday when the temperatures really start to climb. plenty of sunshine around through these days and temperatures towards the low 30s. >> looks like things are heating up . boxt boilers sponsors of up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on gb

>> good evening. it's just exactly 11:00. i'm cameron walker in the gb newsroom . the walker in the gb newsroom. the prime minister has told an emergency cobra meeting tonight that police need to remain on

high alert. sir keir starmer, thanks